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TMHS 330: The Science Of Hunger And The Set Point Diet – With Guest Jonathan Bailor

Among the many illnesses plaguing the Western world, diabesity, the intersection between diabetes and obesity, is becoming increasingly prevalent. This is a deadly heath epidemic, and clearly the traditional model of “eat less and exercise more” is just not enough for many folks who are battling diabesity.

The solution to solving diabesity isn’t as simple as many people have been led to believe. Fighting diabesity involves improving multiple systems within the body, and naturally lowering the body’s setpoint. What most people don’t understand is that processes like hormones and inflammation are key to resetting the body’s function and fighting disease.

Today you’re going to learn the science behind conquering diabesity, and a framework for how to naturally lower your body’s set point. Jonathan Bailor is here to share what’s going on behind the scenes of the diabesity epidemic, and how to optimize the body’s systems in order to reach a healthier weight, reduce blood sugar, and live longer.

In this episode you’ll discover:

  • The shocking number of Americans that are diabetic or prediabetic.
  • What the body’s setpoint is, and how it works.
  • Other types of setpoints that exists within the human body.
  • Why hunger is the hallmark of an unideal diet.
  • The definition of diabesity.
  • How hormones play a role in the body’s setpoint.
  • The role of leptin within the human body.
  • Why overweight individuals have more leptin in their blood stream.
  • How calorie restriction is like an ice bath for your metabolism.
  • Why a mindset shift is crucial for solving the diabesity crisis.
  • The two things that are necessary to treat all diseases (including diabesity).
  • Three specific systems within the body that affect its setpoint.
  • The best sources of prebiotics.
  • How sex hormones play a role in the body’s weight.
  • The power of optimizing your hormone levels.
  • How to make eating high quality foods effortless.

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Thank you so much for checking out this episode of The Model Health Show. If you haven’t done so already, please take a minute and leave a quick rating and review of the show on Apple Podcast by clicking on the link below. It will help us to keep delivering life-changing information for you every week!

Transcript:

Shawn Stevenson: Welcome to The Model Health Show. This is fitness and nutrition expert, Shawn Stevenson, and I'm so grateful for you tuning in with me today.

It's a very exciting episode because we're talking about a subject matter that is really affecting all of us at some level. You know, right now in the United States alone, we have over 100 million people who are now diabetic or pre-diabetic.

Alright? This is according to the CDC. Alright? This condition is really running rampant, and I've seen this in my own family, and this is something that for myself as well, when I was struggling with my own health issues a while back many years ago, I began to really put on a lot of weight.

And my initial little flirting with getting this weight off of me was doing Slim Fast shakes. Alright? That was my on ramp of like, "Okay, I see the commercial. This must be how to do it. I'm going to starve myself, I'm going to have this fake processed nasty strawberry shake in this little-"

They had the instant powder. Oh my goodness, that was worse than bad. Alright? And then they had the pre-made cans of it. Alright? So you do that breakfast and lunch, and then a sensible dinner which is a calorie restricted dinner, and you're supposed to lose this weight. Alright?

It worked, right? I lost a couple of pounds initially, but man, I was not the best version of myself. I was constantly hungry, fighting this hunger because I'm telling myself that if I'm going to get this weight off, I've got to deprive myself. I've got to fight this hunger, right?

When my biology was screaming at me that this is not right, and what I was experiencing at the time was my body set point. Alright? My body was wanting to be at a certain place for its own sense of preservation. Right?

It was my state of homeostasis, and even though it wasn't ideally healthy, looking at the grand scheme of things, this is why my body wanted to be at that place, and I was fighting against it by effectively slowly starving myself.

And so I'm not the only one. I know that millions upon millions upon millions of people are doing it right now trying to get to the place that they want to be.

And so today we're going to talk about what's going on behind the scenes? Alright? What is a set point, by the way, that our bodies want to be at a certain weight, and how do we actually go about adjusting that set point?

Because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. We can lose weight through deprivation, through exercising more. There are many roads to get there, but keeping the weight off and going through that process and becoming healthier, not just losing weight, because there's a difference.

There's a difference between losing weight and actually being a healthy individual. And so we're going to talk about what those components are with our special guest today.

But you know, today first, let's be clear. Health is not just about our body weight, it's also about the function of things like our immune system. It's also about our body's ability to stay youthful and functional longer.

And on the tip of the immune system, I mean, there are hardly any things more important than that. Our immune system is what is hardwired to protect us from obviously viruses, and pathogens, and things like that, but did you know that our immune systems are critical for defending our bodies against the development of cancer cells?

Right? So our immune system is the front line, and also many lines behind that, in going and breaking down rogue cells that are not going through their normal process of apoptosis, right?

Cells are supposed to stop growing at some point, but cancer cells don't really care about that.

There are certain lifestyle practices that we now know, we've talked about this many times on the show, and I'll put a link to a past episode on some clinically proven approaches to defending our bodies from cancer. We'll put that in the show notes.

But one of the biggest components is supporting our immune system, and I wanted to share this with you.

In the journal 'Mediators of Inflammation,' they found that the polysaccharides in rishi - this medicinal mushroom rishi - were found to enhance the proliferation of T cells and B cells.

So these are our white blood cells, right? These are immune system weapons. These are different teams of our immune system that are doing these jobs to support and protect the function of our immune system.

It's really developing the intelligence of our immune system so that it can continue to do the job that it needs to do, because our immune system gets hit really hard with our lifestyle in our current conditions.

And so also, sleep is a critical component to supporting our immune system. What's one of the first things that happens when we're sleep deprived? Is a dramatic suppression in our immune function.

This is when folks tend to find that they are getting sick, they're getting the sniffle sniffles. Alright? It's when we're sleep deprived.

And one of the things that can help you to improve your sleep quality - not necessarily about sleeping more, but sleeping better - is rishi.

This was a study published in 'Pharmacology, Biochemistry, and Behavior.' This is a journal that is looking at, "How can we share data on the best pharmaceuticals?"

This is a drug- they're looking at drugs, but they found that rishi - this natural medicinal mushroom that's been used for thousands of years - has some really powerful benefits for our sleep.

So here's what they found; the renowned medicinal mushroom rishi was able to significantly decrease sleep latency, meaning that you fall asleep faster.

It was also found to increase overall sleep time, and to increase the time spent in deep anabolic sleep, and REM sleep as well.

This is one of my favorite things in the world. I actually like to have it thirty minutes or sixty minutes before bed, just one of those practices to help me to unwind, and I highly recommend you do the same thing.

But you've got to make sure you get the good stuff, alright? You don't want rishi from Company X that you don't really even know.

Are they doing the right process? When you hear a study like this, what extraction method did they use to get the rishi that is getting this result?

And so what you need is a hot water extraction and an alcohol extraction, it's called a dual extraction, to make sure you're getting the good stuff that you're looking for. Alright?

And so the company that does that is Four Sigmatic. Alright? So go to www.FourSigmatic.com/model and you get 15% off their incredible rishi elixir, and also their mushroom coffees, which I love.

Just had some today that has other incredible medicinal mushrooms like lion's mane, cordyceps, the list goes on and on. Alright? They're doing stuff the right way.

So this is organic, and also they're doing a dual extraction to make sure you're actually getting the goodies that you're looking for in these studies. Alright?

So head over there, check them out, www.FourSigmatic.com/model, and now let's get to the Apple Podcasts review of the week.

ITunes Review: Another five-star review titled, 'A Sparkle in Sad Eyes,' by MollyMarieOG.

"Dear Shawn, I've been listening to your podcast now for several months, and I'm absolutely obsessed. As a twenty-two-year-old personal trainer, your content has provided me with exponential knowledge that has leveraged my own health and well-being as well as my clients'.

I've listened to almost all of your episodes while driving, working out, and meal prepping. I get giddy and excited at the beginning of each week, knowing that a new podcast is coming out.

But the absolute most joy I've experienced from your content was seeing the impact it's had on my brother. A couple months ago, my eighteen-year-old brother made an attempt at suicide.

He's been battling depression and anxiety most of his life. Recently he's started binge listening to your podcast, and it's really resonated with him.

He's starting to realize that he's not a victim in his life, and that he has the power to create his own reality. I can see a sparkle of hope and understanding in his eyes as we discuss the episodes.

I love my brother so incredibly much. I cannot thank you enough, Shawn, for shining your light into this time of darkness for my family.

Shawn Stevenson: I have no words. Thank you. Thank you, and thank you for allowing me to be a part of your guys' story, and just big love to your brother and to you, and please believe there is so much more to come, and wow. You guys are amazing. Thank you.

And everybody, thank you for leaving these reviews for me over in Apple Podcasts. If you've yet to do so, please pop over, leave a review for the show, let everybody know what you think of the show.

And on that note, man- wow, was that powerful. I want to get to our special guest and our topic of the day.

Our guest today is the incredible Jonathan Bailor, and he's a pioneer in the field of wellness engineering and the founder and CEO of the acclaimed weight loss and diabesity treatment company, SANE Solution.

He's also the author of the New York Times bestseller, 'The Calorie Man.' And he has registered over twenty-six patents, spoken at Fortune 100 companies, conferences all over the world, and he's also served as a senior program manager at Microsoft.

What? And he helped the company to create Nike plus training and XBox fitness programs. Bananas in pajamas, it's incredible.

His work has been endorsed and implemented by top doctors from Harvard Medical School, Johns Hopkins, The Mayo Clinic, The Cleveland Clinic, and UCLA.

And currently Jonathan lives just outside of Seattle with his wife and new baby girl, and I'd like to welcome for his threepeat here on The Model Health Show, my friend, Jonathan Bailor. What's going on, man?

Jonathan Bailor: Hey, what's up, Shawn? Thank you so much for having me.

Shawn Stevenson: It's my pleasure. We just mentioned this, you were on episode ten, man. This was like five years ago. How crazy is that?

Jonathan Bailor: It's been a long journey, and I'm so happy to be back.

Shawn Stevenson: Absolutely. And since we last talked, you are now a new papa. You're a Papa Bailor.

Jonathan Bailor: Yes.

Shawn Stevenson: So, you've got a little girl now?

Jonathan Bailor: I do. I do. That's why I'm here in Seattle, unfortunately unable to join you in the lovely city of St. Louis. Because yeah, I've got a three and a half month little girl who is just- I'm so glad we had her when we had her, and I can't imagine life without her, and it's just been such an incredible experience.

Shawn Stevenson: Oh my goodness, man. That makes me so happy to hear that. And so you've got your little girl now, and what's her name?

Jonathan Bailor: Avia.

Shawn Stevenson: Avia, so cute. She is so cute, and we already know this that she's got you wrapped around her finger, like forever.

Jonathan Bailor: Yeah, she's incredibly special, man. And there were some health challenges involved in her coming into existence, but I'm so happy to say that we were able to overcome those with grace and with natural interventions, and she is just thriving. She is just thriving, it's great.

Shawn Stevenson: So what has your mindset been like? You know, because you're on fire right now, man. I just dove into the Diabesity series, and it blew my mind.

Like this production for something that is targeting health and wellness, I've never seen anything like it. It is phenomenal, and so I'm curious what your mindset has been like, and your approach.

Like are you like more on fire right now since knowing that you had a little girl coming into the world? What's been going on there?

Jonathan Bailor: Well, the Diabesity series has been a long time coming, and it actually predates Avia's conception. So although she has lit a fire inside me, the fire that manifested the Diabesity series was pre-existing and only stoked by her existence.

But yeah, man. Diabetes, and specifically diabesity has been something that has lit a fire inside of me ever since I was little. It took my- who I call my superhero, my mother's father, my grandfather from us in a very heartbreaking and tragic way that it affected me personally.

I was there when a lot of it happened. It affected my brother, affected my wife while she was pregnant, and is affecting nine out of ten of us globally. So I mean, the fire is raging, let's just say.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, and your ability to channel that, and to communicate, and to make shifts for people is just- I mean, you're one of the best in the business, man. And again, I'm just grateful to have you on the show again to talk about this.

So with that said, also with that story about your grandfather- and I'll save it, guys, so you can check it out in the series, and you also talk about it in the new book as well.

So and I've got that right here, I've got an advanced copy, but when people- it's going to be out when folks get this episode. So it's the set point guide, and man, I just love reading your stuff, man. It's just so good.

And you've got that little tinge of humor in there as well to keep us on our toes.

But what I want to talk about, man, is first and foremost one of the big revelations that you're bringing forth. It's something that I heard about like personal training course number one, over fifteen years ago, but nobody really got it, right?

So- and you've been really pressing into culture this important understanding about set point. Right? Our body's set point. We're struggling with our weight as a culture because of this set point.

So first of all, what does set point actually mean?

Jonathan Bailor: Set point is- it's not unique to weight, and that's really important for us to understand. Set point, or your body balancing itself out in a range, is how everything works in your body. Once we get that, it really changes a lot of things.

So for example, your blood pressure; we know that if blood pressure goes up, your body takes steps to bring it back down. If it goes back down, your body takes steps to bring it back up.

Same thing with blood sugar. If your blood sugar starts to go up, your body automatically does things to bring it back down.

I mean, it even applies to things like body temperature. You walk into a cold room, you start to shiver. You walk into a hot room, you start to sweat.

And so we know that our body, for these mission critical things like heat, like blood pressure, like blood sugar, like energy, there's a part of our brain which says, "I will subconsciously take steps to regulate this in a range in which you will thrive," and we call that your set point.

So you have a blood sugar set point, you have a blood pressure set point, you have a body temperature set point. Most people's body temperature set point is very close. It's 98.6 degrees.

But what people have been slow to be told about, and what some people in the mainstream have been slow to accept, is that we also have a bodyweight set point.

On one level it's obvious. Why would energy balance work completely different than every other system in our body? That's a great question, but obesity has been portrayed as a character flaw, as a moral failing, and because of that, the science around it has been buried, but the science is incredibly clear.

Just like diabetes is the breakdown of the set point around blood sugar, and it's a disease that needs to be taken care of and treated with compassion and scientific rigor.

Obesity and overweight is the disease associated with the breakdown of the bodyweight set point and needs to be treated with compassion and scientific rigor.

Shawn Stevenson: Absolutely. Absolutely, and you address both of those things. Because there are so many folks- and this is why I'm really excited about this episode.

There are many folks listening right now that have struggled. They're out there working out, they're eating what they believe to be an optimal diet, and oftentimes calorie restricting.

And in some cases, even starving themselves causing deprivation and not enough, battling hunger continuously. And that's one of the hallmarks of a diet that is probably not ideal is that you're hungry all the time. Is that right?

Jonathan Bailor: That's exactly right because what is hunger in this world of scientific fact, AKA this world of the set point? Hunger is your body saying, "I think-" your body thinks you need to be eating more.

And that's what- Shawn, like there are some simple questions that can really just unlock this new way of thinking. One question is let's say someone has 150 pounds of surplus fat on their body. So, someone who is really struggling with severe obesity.

Why would they ever be hungry? They have hundreds of thousands of calories already in their body, but their brain is saying, "You don't have enough calories." How does that work?

You know? So like yes, if you're constantly hungry, that's a sign from your body that something is up. And if you're struggling with diabesity, AKA you already have a surplus of calories stored in your body, and your brain has intense cravings, and you're constantly hungry, those are symptoms of the disease of diabesity that we need to treat just like if you were diagnosed with any other disease; scientific rigor and compassion.

Shawn Stevenson: So you've said this term a couple of times, and I said it as well, 'diabesity.' And I would love if you can break down a little bit what does that actually mean? What does that entail?

Jonathan Bailor: Diabesity is when an individual is suffering from diabetes or the pre-diabetes state, as well as obesity or the pre-obesity state of overweight, at the same time or approaching at the same time.

But the thing that is so important to understand, Shawn, and this- I would encourage everyone to write this down because once you get this, everything else is 'easy' to wrap your head around.

Individuals who suffer from overweight have about a 90% chance of them suffering with pre-diabetes or diabetes. And to put that in perspective, we all know that smoking is horribly bad, and one of the reasons we think smoking is horribly bad is because it causes lung cancer.

Shawn, only 10% of people who smoke get lung cancer. So 10% of people who smoke get lung cancer, 90% of people who suffer with overweight will become pre-diabetic or diabetic.

So when we see overweight as this casual thing, this thing that- just starve yourself. Shawn, we have to start seeing it like the medical condition that it is because if you walk into a dinner party, and someone offers you a cupcake, and you say, "Hey, thank you so much, but my doctor said- can I eat something else? Because my doctor said that that will make my cancer worse."

No one is going to say to you, "Oh my gosh, you think you're better than me? Oh my gosh, you're so rude." Because they know that you're dealing with a severe medical issue, so they will treat you with compassion and they will support you.

But we as a culture don't see overweight and obesity that way, but we need to understand that there really is no such thing as overweight and obesity, and there's really no such thing as diabetes.

There is only diabesity because if you struggle with pre-diabetes or diabetes, you will suffer from overweight or obesity, if not now, very soon.

And if you suffer from overweight and obesity, you will suffer from pre-diabetes or diabetes period. So they will lead to each other, and that is a deadly, and fatal, and detrimental combo that if we don't intervene, Shawn, it's- just economically it will literally cause our society to crumble.

Shawn Stevenson: Man, that's shocking, man. And it's also powerful. Just a big 'ah-ha' moment should be taking place for a lot of us right now.

So you mentioned earlier about folks, in a situation where they are overweight and/or obese, and having hundreds of thousands of extra calories that their body is carrying around, but yet still have this experience of constantly being hungry, and to put more in.

And in the book, you talk about the mechanisms behind it, scenes that are driving those things, and it has to do with our set point, and it also has to do with these hormonal clogs.

And the first thing that jumped to mind for me when talking about all of these extra calories we're carrying on our bodies, and extra fat, is the fact that that fat tissue is making leptin. Right?

So let's talk about some of these hormones that can kind of get gummed up as we're progressing into being overweight and obese.

Jonathan Bailor: Hormones are a key component of your set point, Shawn. It's your hormones interacting with your brain and your gut, and hormones- key component because it again sheds light in how beautifully complicated-

I mean, and I say 'complicated,' I don't mean it's difficult to overcome this disease, but if you go to see a physician, or a trainer, or anyone, and they recommend treating your disease with eat less and exercise more, that's like going to a psychiatrist if you suffer from depression, and the psychiatrist saying, "Just frown less and smile more."

It's disrespectful at best, you know? So when we look at all the hormones involved, one of the key ones is leptin, and what is incredible in the scientific literature is as you mentioned, fat tissue is an organ.

It is an endocrine organ, it secretes the hormone leptin, it does other things as well, but it secretes leptin in proportion to the amount of fat on your body. Why is it doing that?

It's doing that to help communicate to your brain, "Hey, I have this much fat, therefore either make me hungry, or make me feel satiated to keep my body fat level at where it should be to maintain health."

Now Shawn, I want to highlight something really quick here. In the year 1983, two things happened. One was much more important than the other.

One was I was born, that's the less important one.

Shawn Stevenson: Happy birthday, welcome. We're here, Jonathan Bailor. I love it.

Jonathan Bailor: But the other somewhat ironic thing that happened that year is there was a book called 'The Set Point Diet' that was published literally that year.

Shawn Stevenson: Wow.

Jonathan Bailor: And some people who are listening to this, or watching this might say to themselves, "Yeah, in the eighties and nineties, I heard of this concept 'set point' before. I've heard of the set point theory."

With the discovery recently of hormones like leptin, and we're seeing more and more stuff in terms of the gut and also the brain, set point is not a theory anymore. It is a fact.

It was a theory in the eighties, but we have now established it as a fact because if your body stores adipose tissue - fat - and then releases leptin in proportion to that adipose tissue to create a feedback mechanism in your brain, which is tissue saying to your brain, "Here's how much of us is on your body, and we think you should upregulate or downregulate appetite to automatically regulate the amount of fat tissue."

It's not a theory that you have a set point. You do, and what's really interesting here, Shawn, is like when leptin was discovered, it was thought that maybe leptin would be the magic pill to cure the disease of obesity.

So there was a tremendous amount of experiments done saying, "Okay, if leptin is secreted in proportion to fat tissue, what if we just gave individuals who suffer from overweight and obesity more leptin, wouldn't that tell their brain, 'Okay, so suppress appetite, burn off adipose tissue.'" Awesome.

But what we found is that increasing leptin levels did nothing because it wasn't a deficiency in leptin. It was a breakdown in the brain's ability to hear and act on leptin so that leptin's resistance existed in the brain.

And this also explains why overweight and obese individuals, studies have shown, can have up to twenty-five times more leptin in their bloodstream than individuals at an optimal weight, because their hormones are trying to reduce the amount of fat on their body, but their brain can't hear those hormonal signals.

So that's why in the book, we don't just talk about one thing, we talk about all the components involved in your set point, because it's like a chain is as strong as its weakest link, and we've got to get your brain, your hormones, and your gut all playing together beautifully so that you can unlock the naturally slim and vibrant person within you.

Shawn Stevenson: Absolutely, man. This is so profound, and the research that you've got in here is just- it speaks to my nerd brain so much, but also this is so practical as well.

And you talked about this study from the University of Minnesota, and researchers there found that- okay so first of all guys, just a little quick recap here.

When we're talking about set point, just say somebody's 250, and they starve themselves, calorie restrict, cut their weight down, exercise their booty off, and they get down to 200 pounds, but their set point is still remaining up there at 250.

As a matter of fact, their set point has gone up a little bit for other particular reasons we'll talk about as well.

And so as soon as that person begins to change from all of the abuse that they've been doing to themselves to try to fight this fat away, the body is going to snap back. It's going to rebound and do everything it can to get to that set point.

And so you mentioned in the book that again, University of Minnesota researchers found that taking these individuals in this particular study, they were looking at cutting them back to 1,600 calories per day, and found that their metabolisms responded by slowing down 40%. 40%.

And also their strength fell by 28%, endurance fell by 79%, and their rates of depression rose by 36%. What's going on there?

Jonathan Bailor: Shawn, we've all experienced this personally. If you eat less, if you starve yourself, what happens? You get tired, you get cold, you get brain fog. It basically feels like every element of that beautiful you has been shifted into a lower gear. You know, like a blanket's been thrown on top of your soul.

That's because that is what's happened. Your body believes and is correct that you're starving. So just like if you happened to lose your job, chances are the way you spend money would radically change, because less in would cause you to spend less out.

When your body sees less of what it needs to thrive coming in, it only makes sense from a survival perspective for it to radically slow down everything.

And Shawn, the key part of that is that it doesn't just slow down everything. It will then take steps so that if that ever happens again in the future, it needs to protect itself.

So this is when we talk about yo-yo dieting. The individual who goes from 250 to 200 generally doesn't then go back to 250. They go back to 260 because the tragic irony is that what we've been told to do to lose weight in the short-term increases our set point and therefore causes more fat gain in the long-term. And that's really, really tragic.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, and there are 'weight loss experts' out there right now, and the thing is, calorie restricting- taking that approach with calorie restriction is pretty effective for short-term. Right?

And so it's just like all you need to do is cut back. It doesn't matter if you're doing Keto, it doesn't matter if you're doing vegetarian, it doesn't matter if you're doing the drive-through diet. Just cut your calories, you're going to lose some weight.

Now first of all, that doesn't work for everybody, by the way. Not everybody is even going to lose weight doing that. But for a lot of folks, they will lose weight, but it's temporary, and that's the part that these folks are not sharing. You know? Because you're not addressing truly adjusting that set point.

Jonathan Bailor: That's exactly right. You can do- like Shawn, think of an analogy that my good friend, Dr. David Ludwig at the Harvard Medical School, talks about a lot. It's a beautiful metaphor.

If you have a fever, so if your body temperature set point is elevated because you have a disease or you have an illness, who could argue with getting an ice bath?

If you get in an ice bath, your body temperature will fall period, always. So in an energy deprived state, you get into an ice bath, your body temperature is going to fall.

Do you know what? You're not going to stay in an ice bath for the rest of your life. So it's somewhat irrelevant because you're not going to do that long-term, and the goal is not to temporarily reduce your fever, it's to cure the underlying cause of the fever in the first place.

So starvation dieting is like an ice bath for your metabolism. It will absolutely- of course, nobody suffers through a war torn country where there's a famine, and it's not as if obesity rates spike when no one has food. I get that.

But Shawn, we've all lost weight. The issue is not temporary weight loss. Of course, you starve yourself, you lose weight. The issue is protecting oneself from diabesity and an elevated set point long-term.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.

Jonathan Bailor: And if starvation dieting increases your likelihood of long-term weight gain and long-term diabesity, why would we ever subject ourselves to that?

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. It doesn't make sense, you know? But again, that's why we're doing this right now, and creating some more clarity around it.

And one other thing I want you to mention. You cited a study as well that showed that somebody who is actually- they went through their typical kind of conventional calorie restriction process, and even though they weigh more than somebody who just has a lower set point, they now can only consume a certain amount of calories that is less. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Jonathan Bailor: Yeah, this was a study done at Rockefeller University in I believe the late eighties or early nineties, and interestingly a similar study happened just a couple years ago with Biggest Loser contestants and showed similar things.

But in short, you had individuals who were morbidly obese, so I think they were like 300+ pounds, and they were starved down- I'm going to get the numbers not exactly correct, but they were starved down to I think like 285 pounds or 250 pounds.

So they lost a significant amount of weight, and if this were to have been on the Biggest Loser show, or on the Internet, there would be, "Wonderful, oh my gosh, tremendously successful weight loss. Let's all celebrate, and it's so fantastic!"

But what the researchers then did was they brought in individuals who naturally weighed something like 135 pounds - and again, forgive me if I'm not getting the numbers exactly right.

But they didn't weigh a lot. So individuals who weighed way less than the- so naturally slim individuals who let's say weighed around 135 pounds were then compared to these individuals who weighed way more, 250+ pounds, but were starved down and experienced 'weight loss success.'

And they found that these individuals who weighed 200+ pounds, who were significantly larger people than these smaller people, required fewer calories per day than the smaller people.

So it's like an NFL linebacker required less energy to function than a cheerleader for the NFL, and that's because-

Shawn Stevenson: Just to maintain their level of fitness.

Jonathan Bailor: Just to maintain, which means again- so that NFL linebacker, if he or she ever ate more calories than the cheerleader, or even the same number of calories as the cheerleader-

Shawn Stevenson: They would gain weight.

Jonathan Bailor: They would gain back all the fat they lost and more. So we're dooming ourselves, it's like we're painting ourselves into a metabolic corner when we starve ourselves, and that's why we have to shift from this mindset of short-term weight loss to lowering our set point, and long-term protection against diabesity.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. What I want to do, I want to break down and talk about those components of the set point. You mentioned them a little bit earlier in relationship to our brain is even involved, and also our gut- our microbiome.

And we're going to do that right after this quick break. So sit tight, and we'll be right back.

Alright, we're back and we're talking with New York Times bestselling author and new papa, Papa Bailor. We're talking with Jonathan Bailor right now, and we're talking about his new book, 'The Set Point Diet,' and also his incredible, incredible multi-media Diabesity series, which I got the opportunity to check out, and I just think it's an absolute game changer.

I've never seen anything this well-produced and so dense in information before, as far as health and wellness is concerned, and so I'm just really pumped to have you on and talk about this.

But we were talking before the break about set point, and the components that really are influencing how do we shift our set point from that of somebody who might be hovering around 200 pounds, it's where our body wants to be, and moving that down potentially to 180 pounds and staying there, and creating a set point there.

And this involves three specific things I believe, so can we talk about those?

Jonathan Bailor: One of the most common questions I get asked, Shawn, is, "What is the set point? Is it like this little gremlin in my body that is keeping track of stuff?"

And then answer is no, it's a way to describe the interaction between your brain, your gut, and your hormones. Or specifically, your first brain - your brain, your second brain - you may have heard your gut called your second brain, and the thing that causes those to communicate are your hormones.

So all three of those things. If we look at them in an individual who is struggling with overweight and diabesity, we see that there is neurological inflammation, we see that there is hormonal dysregulation, and we see that there is a dysbiosis within their gut.

And those three things cause an elevation in the set point, and the way we reduce the set point is by reversing those three breakdowns in the brain, the gut, and the hormones.

Shawn Stevenson: Perfect. So let's start by talking a little bit- and of course you dive in deep, really deep in the book and the program, but let's talk about the brain. Right?

You talk about brain inflammation being an issue that's determining our weight. That might not really click for a lot of people. So let's make some sense of that.

Jonathan Bailor: Neurological inflammation, or specifically- you've heard about inflammation on your body. You get a cut, it becomes inflamed. Pretty familiar with that, and we know that inflammation chronically is not good.

But most people don't realize that your brain can literally become inflamed, and it absolutely can, and we see that there is a characteristic level and type of inflammation in individuals who chronically struggle with their weight.

And Shawn, this is an area where we see science that is shockingly clear. What I mean by that is we can look at the brain of rodents, for example, and we can in a rodent give them MSG, which is a very bad for you food additive, and we can literally dose them with MSG, and then do a brain scan, and see that the more MSG we give them, the more inflamed their brain becomes.

And then we can take that same brain, and dose it with EPA and DHA which is a specific form of Omega-3 fatty acids, and see that inflammation reduce.

So we literally see a perfect causal relationship between certain things we put into our mouth and the level of inflammation in our brain. And when our brain is inflamed, Shawn, it simply cannot hear the signals our gut and hormones are sending to it, which should regulate our cravings and appetite such that overweight and obesity become impossible.

Because we've all seen that. We've all met and seen naturally thin people who effortlessly maintain a slim physique. That is possible, but it's not possible if our brain is inflamed, because then it can't do its job.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, and you just mentioned some of the things that can kind of gum up the system and create brain inflammation, like literally killing brain cells potentially, is you just mentioned MSG, monosodium glutamate.

I was just doing some research- and this was back in the day, guys. I'll put this episode in the show notes. Make sure you listen to this episode. It is straight up classic, the story of soda.

And in that, we talked a little bit about diet sodas, and now we know that these can potentially create worse health or even higher rates of obesity than the 'regular' soda.

And one of those issues is artificial sweeteners, and so these interact with our brain cells, these kinds of excitatory toxin type of things.

And what we see in this particular study I shared is that folks who regularly consume diet sodas had three times greater incidents of developing dementia. Right?

So literally if we think about this stuff in a bigger context, sometimes we think, "Oh, well that's just dementia." Well guess what? If it's bad for that, it's probably bad for your metabolism as well.

You know? All of these things are interconnected, and our bodies are interconnecting. So we might be targeting our belly fat, but we really need to be looking at what's going on with our brains.

And so thank you for sharing that. So we've got brain inflammation, and so let's shift gears and talk a little bit about how is the microbiome involved in this?

Jonathan Bailor: Shawn, many of us think of ourselves as, "I am me. I am an individual, and I'm a strong beautiful individual." And that is true, but a lot of us don't realize like 90% of the cells that make up that beautiful you aren't you.

They're little bacterial minions that live in and on your body. So about ten pounds of your bodyweight is bacteria that lives in and on you, which has a tremendous impact on your not only health but also weight in the sense that we've seen- again, if you look at someone who's struggling with overweight, obesity, and diabesity, and you look at the bacteria in their gut, it is consistently different and in the same ways than someone who is naturally slim and has a low set point.

And what's even more, is we can do things like do transplants of bacteria between individuals struggling with diabesity and individuals who are not, and cause low grade disease in individuals who weren't struggling with the disease, and cause improvements in people who were struggling with the disease when we switch the bacteria between the two individuals.

And Shawn, what's even more is we've seen that certain forms of bacteria, literally these are living creatures that need to eat, and they literally crave different foods.

So there are set point elevating bacteria which crave sugary foods. And there are set point lowering bacteria which crave healthier, energizing foods.

So you can literally enlist billions of little helpers in your fight to enjoy an optimal life if you can recalibrate the bacteria in your gut to be set point lowering energizing bacteria rather than this toxic set point elevating bacteria which thrive on the highly processed, sugary, standard American diet.

Shawn Stevenson: I think it was the 'Journal of Proteome Research,' and it talked about how there's even a bacteria cascade for some folks that are going to drive you more so to eat a lot more chocolate. Alright?

So just throwing that out there, you know? So our bacteria, which if we take all of that out of us, we're talking about three pounds of weight they were carrying, are these incredible little critters.

I don't want people to get freaked out, alright? So this is a symbiotic- supposed to be a symbiotic relationship. Many of these bacteria protect us, work as part of our immune system, create vitamins and minerals in us, for us, help us to digest and process our food.

So many wonderful things that would not be possible for us to even exist without this relationship. But we can damage this relationship, and you talked about in the book- you cited a study.

This was in the 'British Journal of Nutrition,' and had folks actually working to change that microbiome by providing some probiotics. So let's talk about that, how just simply changing that gut bacteria can help folks lose weight.

Jonathan Bailor: Not only from a what you crave perspective, but how food you eat is processed, is determined by the bacteria in your gut.

And two of the main interventions that we can practice, is you've probably heard of probiotics and prebiotics, and these are supplements you can take. There's also foods that can tremendously help here.

Probiotics are the actual substances that help you to cultivate the set point lowering bacteria that you want in your gut, and prebiotics are the substances that feed those bacteria.

And one thing to keep in mind is that- anytime I mention supplements, I have to give a big disclaimer because if you take probiotics and prebiotics while eating the standard American diet, you will not have an optimal life period. You know, they are sort of icing on the bacterial cake, as delicious as that sounds.

Shawn Stevenson: Ew! Ew!

Jonathan Bailor: But the good news, Shawn, is like when it comes to both your gut, your brain, and your hormones, it's not like you need to eat these foods for your brain, and eat these foods for your hormones, and memorize the different food list for your gut.

The same foods, the same satisfying, unaggressive, nutritious, and inefficient vegetables, and proteins, and whole food fats, and low sugar fruits; all of these foods help to reduce inflammation in your brain, balance your hormones, and create a positive symbiotic set of bacteria in your gut that will help you to eat the appropriate number of calories and the appropriate type of calories effortlessly because they will influence not only your appetite, but like you said Shawn, your cravings.

And look, Shawn, if you're not hungry, and when you are hungry you crave set point lowering foods, it's hard to gain weight, and that's the profound distinction here.

When people are saying, "Hey, just starve yourself," three questions to ask. How is that helping my brain? How is that helping my gut? And how is that helping my hormones?

It's not, period. And then the fourth question to ask is, "Why in the Lord's name would I starve myself and struggle through all that pain when I can make my brain, my gut, and my hormones do the heavy lifting for me and cause me to have an appropriate appetite, and cause me to crave foods that help me to thrive? Why would I run through a mine field of starvation dieting when I could casually stroll down the beautiful garden path of lowering my set point? I don't get it."

Shawn Stevenson: You know, you just said something profound. And by the way, thank you for that caveat of mentioning- because some folks will hear that, "Okay, got it. Just go get some probiotics. Problem solved." You know?

And that's the big mistake because marketers screw everything up, so this data gets out there about the benefit, and then you start hearing- and I would hear these on the radio and even on television now, "If you want to get a flat tummy by the next twenty-one days, a lot of folks' testimony, just take these probiotics. Our fancypants probiotic supplement, and it's going to solve all your problems, it's going to solve wars, everything."

You know? It's just like all these big claims, and the reality is it's really missing the point. First of all, what does your diet look like? Because if you don't have the right energy, the right types of foods for these probiotics, even if you're taking the ones that-

You might not even be taking the probiotic, first of all, that is even right for you right now, but to help those guys to populate, and to take up- because something that I don't know if we've really mentioned is that we can see clinically, this is well-known, folks that are overweight, folks that are experiencing diabetes and obesity, they have a different gut cascade.

Their microbiome is very different from somebody who's in a healthier state. And so what we need to do is understand, number one, food first, and you mentioned that.

Every culture- and as I was working at a university for many years, I would just ask people, "So, what kind of fermented foods?"

Sometimes they didn't know what I was talking about, but just a little digging, every single person from every country that I've ever talked to, there is some staple that is a fermented food in their culture that was known to be a health giving thing.

And so every day, hopefully you might include a serving, if not every other day at minimum of some kind of fermented food.

And so even today, I was in a little bit of a hurry, so I took a swig. This is a true story, I don't know why I'm sharing this. This is kind of- this might sound gross to people, but it's not going to be too gross, guys. Not like bacteria cake or anything.

But I just had my breakfast, I had some sautéed spinach, a little avocado, but then I took a swig. I took a swig of some sauerkraut juice. Alright?

My guy Sam in here just gave me the side eye, and you might think, "Oh my God, that probably put some hair on your chest." Yes, it did. Alright? First of all. And this will do it for the ladies as well.

I'm just kidding, it won't put hair on your chest. Just a nice little dose of bacteria. And for me now, I like the taste. I like the taste of sauerkraut, and it's just giving me a little bit of the healthy dose of that friendly flora from a real food source.

Now I've got my son- my youngest son Braden, he's eating the pickles, you know? He got into it thanks to his- he's got like a guy who does local farming, that kind of thing at his school, and so he started eating pickles.

And now so every now and then, I'll get him that. And just sneaking that stuff in for our kids as well. It's super important.

Last point I want to make is there are many different types. We've got yogurts, we've got kefirs, we've got fermented vegetables. There's even fermented meats and things like that if you look at the Inuits and things like that.

There are so many different options, but target food first. Second, if you're going to get probiotics, regardless we want to make sure that we're doing our best to get some prebiotics in.

So can you talk about what we need to look for, for prebiotics for feeding the friendly flora?

Jonathan Bailor: Prebiotics are extremely hard to get from whole food sources. So this is a tricky thing to talk about because prebiotics are not the easiest thing in the world to find.

Shawn, my key recommendation I give to kind of everyone though is to not- you might have more to add here, but I worry sometimes that individuals will say, "Okay prebiotic, probiotic, brain, gut," so on and so forth.

I mean, you tell me what you think, but when we say the general template of non-starchy vegetables, nutrient dense protein, whole food fats, low fructose fruits, and encouraging these traditional fermented foods, what I've found- so for me, like Jerusalem artichokes are one of the highest sources of prebiotic fibers.

But for me, like especially I've got a new baby girl, running a company, if I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't eat any Jerusalem artichokes this week," and this is something we actually talk about in the book, I start to feel like I'm not doing the right thing.

I'm not doing enough. I'm failing in some way because I'm trying to check all these boxes in my mind of like prebiotic, probiotic, then this, and this, and then I've got to do this, and then ultimately my brain will just say, "Skip it, just take supplements." Because my brain will just be like, "That's an easy way to check all these boxes."

So what I sometimes encourage people to do, because again Shawn, we're not- for so many of us, we're not talking about, "How do we go from an A to an A+?"

Literally over 70% of our population is suffering with a fatal disease called diabesity. Period. Eat more vegetables.

Shawn Stevenson: Boom.

Jonathan Bailor: Do that. Eat more vegetables every single day. If you eat vegetables every time you eat food, I would argue that you will see a greater positive change in your life than any other lifestyle intervention you've ever tried.

Shawn Stevenson: Man, that's- thank you. Thank you. I literally- I just met with somebody yesterday who's- you know, he's doing some big things, and he's a big fan of the show, and he mentioned that he's already been a health nut - I don't use that word, he used it - for many years.

You know? He's a long distance runner, all that kind of stuff, hiking, and really watching what he eats. I mean, like the right way.

And he said the one thing that I got from you, Shawn, that just changed my life was I eat vegetables now at every meal. You know? Even with breakfast, I'm just piling on- it used to just be the omelet, and maybe some avocado.

"Now I've got the peppers in there, I've got spinach, I've got-" and he just started rattling off, and he was like, "I'm impressing that upon my family as well. We're looking at breakfast differently instead of breakfast really being dessert." You know? Because that's kind of how it is in our culture.

But- so thank you for sharing that. And also- so guys, just to throw this out there as far as prebiotics, resistant starch is going to be a component of that.

So he mentioned Jerusalem artichokes. We've got tiger nuts, alright? Now these aren't actually the nuts of tigers, alright? These are just a type of nut, like a Brazil nut. Tiger nuts, and you get this, it's very fiber rich, and you could use it for baking and things like that.

We've got onions and garlic, things like that. So these are just simple things that are in your food, and if you're eating fermented vegetables, it's coming along with its own kind of prebiotic fiber itself. You know?

So if we're eating sauerkraut and things like that, kimchi. Alright, so I just wanted to throw that out there.

Jonathan Bailor: And Shawn, can I add one real quick to it? Because I know there's a big- a lot of people are going gluten-free nowadays, and one positive aspect of that is guar gum has become a bit more popular because it's used in a lot of gluten-free baking dishes.

And guar gum, which you can find in most health food stores, is a powerful pre and probiotic that is used in studies quite a bit. So that's something that you can use in SANE and healthy baked goods. It's also a good thickening agent for smoothies.

Shawn Stevenson: Okay, nice. That's a new one right here. So now let's talk about that third component, and let's go into a little bit more detail.

So we covered the brain, the gut, now let's talk about hormones. Let's talk about there's three specific- obviously there are so many different things we could talk about with hormones, but let's cover three of them.

Let's talk a little bit about- we mentioned leptin earlier, so let's just mention a little bit more about that. Let's talk about insulin obviously, and then I'll let you do the bonus one. So let's talk about leptin first.

Jonathan Bailor: Leptin is one we must highlight in a book called 'The Set Point Diet' because it is arguably the hormone that made the bodyweight set point an irrefutable fact.

And it was discovered fairly recently, and that's again why in the eighties you may have heard the term 'set point' but it was like, "Maybe that's how the body works." Now we're like, "That's how the body works."

Because leptin, again, is a hormone that is secreted by your body fat tissue with the purpose of telling your brain how much fat is on your body so that your brain can use that information to regulate your calories in - AKA your appetite - and your calories out - AKA your energy levels accordingly, so that ideally body fat doesn't get too high, and body fat doesn't get too low.

But as we talked about earlier, if your brain becomes inflamed, it can't hear the message leptin is trying to communicate, our set point elevates, and we suffer from obesity and diabesity.

Shawn Stevenson: So we've got leptin, and we need to be mindful of our leptin, and it's not about taking some kind of fancy leptin supplement because that's not going to do the trick.

Folks who are experiencing obesity right now have plenty of leptin because fat tissue makes it. It's the sensitivity. It's leptin being leptin sensitive; those receptor sites.

Okay, so let's talk about insulin. What role does insulin play in this whole thing? I know it's a big topic, but let's talk a little bit about it.

Jonathan Bailor: Insulin, tremendous amount of attention recently. It is a hormone that is released in the body that allows your body to take sugar and get it into your cells.

Your body can fuel itself from essentially two sources; one is fat or ketones, the other is blood sugar. Your body can burn fat as fuel, and metabolize it without too much help, but your body cannot utilize sugar without the hormone insulin.

And this is why - it's kind of a sad story, but it makes the point and you'll remember it. Before we understood what insulin did, type one diabetes was- so type one diabetes is a type of diabetes you're born with where your body cannot produce enough insulin.

And it's not- there's no, "Because you ate this way, you have type one diabetes." You're born with it.

Before we understood what insulin did, and understood how to treat type one, and now type two diabetes, there would be these horrific scenes in hospitals where infants with type one diabetes - which they didn't know was type one diabetes at that time - they would be feeding them, and feeding them, and feeding them.

And these little babies- this is going to be hard for me to talk about because I haven't talked about this since I had a baby.

These little babies would just wither away. Like they would literally starve to death despite everyone's effort to pump them full of calories because these little babies' bodies couldn't use the calories because those sugar calories were just getting excreted out of their body because they didn't have insulin to make use of those calories.

So now, we understand what insulin does, we have effective therapies for type one diabetics, but now we have the problem of- because of insane eating, we eat foods that cause radically high levels of insulin, and chronically high levels of insulin, and this causes our cells to become resistant to insulin, and so now we have a deadly situation, which we call- used to call adult onset diabetes.

We now call type two diabetes- because unfortunately kids are getting it now, where although our body can produce insulin, and is producing an excessive amount of insulin, like we said with leptin, our cells become resistant to it.

And so we had insulin resistance, so our cells that need energy cannot get sugar or energy into them, but instead it gets redirected into our fat cells, because our fat cells will always be receptive to insulin and to the sugar calories.

So we have this paradox where you'll have an individual who will eat food, not be able to get the energy from that food into the cells that need it because it's getting shuttled into their fat cells, so they- earlier Shawn, we asked how can someone who is 350 pounds ever be hungry?

The reason they're hungry in part is because they suffer from severe insulin resistance, and that means that their active cells - their cells that need energy - can't get energy, because insulin can't do its job, so they're eating, the food is essentially bypassing the cells that need it, going into their fat cells, and so they remain hungry.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.

Jonathan Bailor: And they're in this vicious cycle of always eating, never being satiated, and never being energized because this key hormone insulin is not able to do its job.

Shawn Stevenson: Man, that is just nuts. So ironically, being overweight but yet starving. That's- wow, that's profound. And the body will always find a way. You know? It's just trying to sort itself out.

And this is really about, again, supporting that entire process. And so I would love- I know I said I would let you pick the last one, but either one of these. I'm going to throw them out there. CCK or adiponectin. Let's talk about either one of those in closing.

Jonathan Bailor: Oh man. Well Shawn, I was so excited to pick that last one because I was going to add a little spice to the show. I was going to talk about sex hormones.

Shawn Stevenson: Okay, spice it up! Go for it, man. Let's do it.

Jonathan Bailor: I want to get your ratings-

Shawn Stevenson: CCK, adiponectin; get the book. Alright, go ahead.

Jonathan Bailor: One of the things that we don't talk about a lot is our sex hormones. And I actually want to talk about the sex hormone testosterone because that's actually thought of a lot as a male hormone, and one of the things that we're seeing more and more and more is of course optimum testosterone levels in men is extremely important, but it is also important in women.

Ensuring that your testosterone levels are optimized- and I'll just give a little anecdote because we've talked a lot about science, and sometimes anecdotes are fun.

A lot of women that my company has worked with have had the following experience. They will really work diligently to make lifestyle changes, and if they're married, the man they're living with will just kind of like go along for the ride but is not- it's just like, "Whatever, hunny. You do you, I'll eat what you serve me." Fine.

And the man who has never yo-yo dieted, has never starved himself, and is not really trying is like, "Hunny, I need new pants because my pants don't fit anymore."

Whereas the female who's just banging her head against the wall, but unfortunately has yo-yo dieted eight, nine, ten times in her life, is not seeing the same weight loss results.

And these individuals, they get so frustrated because they're like, "How is it that this man who is not even trying is losing weight, whereas I, who am trying so diligently, is not losing weight?"

Okay, so one of the reasons is in every case of that I've ever seen. The man who accidentally loses weight has not yo-yo dieted ten times in his life.

So his metabolism is at a fundamentally different state than the female who has frequently - because she's been give incorrect information, it is not her fault - yo-yo dieted many times.

But testosterone is the other missing link. Testosterone is one of the most important components you can have in your body if you want to preserve and maximize calorie hungry lean muscle tissue and minimize fat tissue period.

And if you want just another anecdote, if you take testosterone, AKA anabolic steroids, you will, while sitting on the couch and drinking Mountain Dew, build muscle and burn fat.

Because if you take enough testosterone, all testosterone says to your body - I'm over-simplifying - is, "Build muscle and burn fat. Build muscle and burn fat."

So don't do that, don't take steroids, but if through lifestyle interventions as a man or a woman, you can optimize your testosterone levels, holy moly will you see powerful results.

Shawn Stevenson: Oh, I love that. And we'll put in the show notes- we did an episode, I believe it was The Top Ten Ways to Naturally Improve Your Testosterone. So we'll put that in the show notes.

So man, that's so good. So good. And listen, obviously there's twenty other things that I could talk to you about, but I want you to- let's do this.

For me again, I've seen a lot of health-related content for many years - for about seventeen years I've been in this field - and books on books on books. But your Diabesity series is far and away the best thing that I've seen on film with relationship to our health and wellness.

So let's talk about what people can expect from this series, and again, just the production, the stories, the presentation of the information. You know?

You've got actors doing portrayals of situations. Like even one of your early clients, and just how she was pissed. She was pissed at you, man.

And just, you know, it was just such a great experience. So let's talk a little bit about the series. Why did you create it, and what can people expect from checking it out?

Jonathan Bailor: Number one reason we created the series, Shawn, and we don't tell this story in the series, but we will tell this story in the feature film that is being created from the series, which is I had a personal experience where- I am an engineer by trade.

I love research, I'm super into data and numbers, and the reason I married my wife was it was a logical thing to do, and that's just kind of how I am. Anyways, I love my wife very much.

Shawn Stevenson: Let's be clear.

Jonathan Bailor: One of those kinds of probably borderline autistic individuals. Very, very hyper rational. And I was speaking to my mother, and I was like, "I'm showing all these studies, I'm giving all this research, and it's not having the impact that I want it to have."

And my mother said to me, "Jonathan, people won't necessarily remember what you say, but they will remember how you made them feel."

And that had tremendous impact on me because then I thought of individuals who I've met who are vegan or vegetarian. And for me, every single- and the reason I use this as an example is vegan and vegetarianism is a very difficult way to eat.

It is not easy to be a vegan. Like the type of eating that we advocate in the SANE lifestyle, in 'The Set Point Diet' book is radically easier than trying to be vegan or vegetarian in modern society.

And so I said, "How? What caused people to become vegans or vegetarians and to so profoundly not only-" They're not like, "Oh gosh, it's so hard to be vegan. Like, I hate being a vegan. Why do I have to do this every day?"

Like they're pumped about eating in this very difficult way, and it's usually because they had a deep emotional experience.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.

Jonathan Bailor: That caused their perception of themselves and their perception of wellness and their perception of food to change.

So what I wanted to do with this move was say, "How can we couple the most profound science in the world?" And we had the good fortune of filming on location at the Harvard Medical School with literally the top doctors and researchers in the world.

And how can we marry that with real life emotional stories, not only from my life, but from over eighteen courageous individuals - we call them Diabesity heroes - to create the most powerful, both left brain and right brain, both emotional and logical, both scientific and feeling piece of work that's ever been created because lives are on the line.

Literally, lives are on the line, and we deserve better, and that's what this mini-series is communicating.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. Man, and you did it so well, man. It's just really a pleasure to watch, and it's something that especially I felt like if I would have seen this early on in my search, it would have helped me tremendously.

It's one of those things that if there are people in your life, or if you're in a place where you're trying to figure this stuff out, this is a great thing to just sit down and to watch, or to watch with somebody that you care about, or to send them because it does all of the work for you.

Like you don't have to explain all this stuff, and it has so many layers of edutainment, and just it's so engaging that man, I'm just super proud of the work that you've done, man. I hope that you're like blown out over the moon about it, because it's something really special.

And so guys, first of all, Jonathan is going to give everybody listening his recipe book. So this is 99 smoothie recipes that all kind of abide by the principles of his SANE approach. Right? That acronym SANE.

And defending your body, helping your body supporting that set point change. So you can get access to that at www.DiabesitySeries.com/model. Okay? That's www.DiabesitySeries.com/model.

You get that, and he's going to make sure to get you information on how to get hooked up and being able to see the series as well.

Jonathan Bailor: Absolutely, Shawn. And you remember I was saying, what do smoothies have to do with all of this? If someone asks me, "Jonathan, what is the one thing that I can do today to heal my brain, gut, and hormones? What is the one thing I can do today to lower my set point? What is the one thing I can do today to radically protect myself against or reverse diabesity?"

It is to drink SANE green smoothies. Period. I don't want you to focus on what not to do, starvation, negative, deprivation. I want you to add this most therapeutic, nutrient-dense, delicious, whole food based, low-sugar, high-veggie beverage; one of them per day. Period.

It is like concentrated sanity. It is like concentrated- it's like a diabesity immunization. That's how they relate.

Shawn Stevenson: Oh, I love it, man. So again, URL www.DiabesitySeries.com/model, and you get the hookup on that.

So final question, man. In the book, which was kind of surprising, you shifted gears out of the nutrition conversation and you begin talking about why we need to not beat ourselves into submission, but begin to love ourselves slim, love ourselves into a healthy state of being.

So can you communicate for folks like what do you mean by that?

Jonathan Bailor: In my experience over the past ten years of working with people, Shawn, one of the most tragic things that I've seen is when we peel back layers of wellness struggles. At the core of it is something along the lines of on some deep unconscious level like, "I don't believe that I'm worth good food."

Or, "I don't believe that I'm worth- like something happened in my past, or society is telling me things that make me feel like I am less than, and I deserve less than, and because of that, I lose motivation to make these lifestyle changes."

And what we experience when we unpack those things, and then when we look just at the teachings we have SANE Solution, and in this book we're like, "Look, it's ironic maybe because what we're fundamentally talking about doing is high quality eating."

We're talking about high quality physical movement. We're talking about high quality self-love. Rather than a quantity-based approach, we're looking at improving quality.

And if we can fundamentally believe, like at the core of our being that we are high quality, why wouldn't we eat high quality food? Like if you have a Tesla sitting in your driveway- or that's a bad example because it doesn't take gasoline.

If you have a Ferrari sitting in your driveway, chances are you're going to put good fuel into it. And I have news for you; you are a Ferrari. Period.

Like there is no rational or logical explanation for why the unique you that exists exists, and there are people in the world that depend on you, and love you, and need you, and we have so many problems in this world, we need everyone to be fully enrolled in solving them.

And once you get that, once you get that you are inherently a miracle, and inherently high quality, you will see- I mean, let me just give one example, and I'm probably going a little big long here.

Four individuals who have never taken heroin - sounds like a crazy example - but when they think about taking heroin, they're just like, "I would never put heroin into my body." Well, why?

"Well because, like heroin is not something that I would put into my body. I just wouldn't do that to my body. It doesn't sound appealing to me."

Once you get how high quality you are, things like Mountain Dew will start to look that way. It's just like why would I ever put something that low quality into something that's this high quality?

So we actually dig a lot into what's called cognitive behavioral therapy and rational and motive behavioral therapy in the book because the secret is once you get, and believe, and know at the core of your being that you as a person are high quality, eating and living high quality is effortless.

Shawn Stevenson: Jonathan Bailor, everybody. Can you let everybody know where they can- number one, share that URL again to get that hookup on the 99 smoothie recipes, and also where they can find your book.

Jonathan Bailor: Just head over to www.DiabesitySeries.com/model - again, for the 99 smoothies book - www.DiabesitySeries.com/model. And then for all things SANE, the book and everything else, the web series, definitely go to www.SANESolution.com. Again, that's www.SANESolution.com.

Shawn Stevenson: Perfect. Jonathan Bailor; pioneer, one of my favorite authors, one of my favorite people. Congratulations on your growing family. I appreciate you so much, and just thanks for spending time with us, man.

Jonathan Bailor: Thank you, Shawn.

Shawn Stevenson: Everybody, thank you so much for tuning into the show today. I hope you got a lot of value out of this.

Listen, this concept of set point, again I was kind of like teased with this very early in my career, but never really dove in and looked at how important this is.

And you know, something that our bodies are constantly fighting to do is to maintain this homeostasis, maintain where it believes to be its most vital and healthiest. You know?

Our bodies, even when we're in a state- we're experiencing these conditions like diabetes, our bodies are actually trying to help us.

The body is incredibly resilient, and we literally have to change conditions within our microbiome, within our brains, and this hormonal cascade in order to make these shifts under everything. Right?

Because what we're seeing is the out-picturing of these things under the surface and changing our set point. Those things are the key, and so definitely check out Jonathan's new book, 'The Set Point Diet.'

He's got an entire program in there, and of course get those 99 smoothies, and he'll also hook you up with information about the series. Alright? It's going to be coming real soon depending on when you're listening to this.

But the best way to make sure that you are getting information about that, go to www.DiabesitySeries.com/model. That's www.DiabesitySeries.com/model.

Alright guys, again, I hope you got a lot of value out of this episode. If you did, share it out with the people you love. Right? Sharing is caring.

So make sure to share this out on social media, you can email this to a friend if they happen to not be on social media. It's like one of those- what is it? A Luddite? I don't know.

But if you're on social, make sure to share the show out on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. You can tag me of course. Tag Jonathan, he's @JonathanBailor.

Instagram, I love seeing that on Instagram. Just post it, share it in your story, and tag me, let me know what you thought about the episode. Alright? I appreciate that so much.

And guys, trust and believe I've got some incredible powerhouse episodes and show topics coming up. Alright? So stay tuned, alright? Take care, have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon.

And for more after the show, make sure to head over to www.TheModelHealthShow.com. That's where you can find all of the show notes, you can find transcriptions, videos for each episode, and if you've got a comment you can leave me a comment there as well.

And please make sure to head over to iTunes and leave us a rating to let everybody know that the show is awesome, and I appreciate that so much.

And take care, I promise to keep giving you more powerful, empowering, great content to help you transform your life. Thanks for tuning in.

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