Listen to my latest podcast episode:

TMHS 793: Strengthen Your Mental & Emotional Fitness Through the Power of Creativity – With IN-Q

TMHS 398: Beautiful Teeth, Healthy Gums, & Fresh Breath: Tips For Natural Oral Care – With Guest Nadine Artemis

Standard practices in healthcare are constantly evolving as we learn more about our bodies. It’s shocking to think back on the history of common treatments. Through the 19th century, leeches were a typical medical treatment, and less than 100 years ago, lobotomies were standard practice. 

When we know better, we can do better. Emerging studies shape the way we care for our bodies, but now more than ever, we’re realizing our bodies’ systems are much more interconnected than we originally thought. It’s easy to compartmentalize different body parts and systems, but humans are holistic beings. Everything from your nervous system to your cardiovascular system, and even your teeth are connected.

Today’s guest, Nadine Artemis, is one of the top experts in the world on holistic dental care. She’s here to share some of her best tips for cultivating healthy teeth and gums. You’ll learn about how cavities are created (and reversed!), how to choose your oral care products, and how to become the expert on your own dental care. Enjoy! 

In this episode you’ll discover:

  • How Nadine became interested in creating clean beauty products.
  • The process in which essential oils are created.
  • What the dentinal lymph system is.
  • Why a tooth is similar to a tree in structure.
  • How cavities are actually formed.
  • Food that discolor the teeth.
  • The dangers of teeth bleaching, and how to naturally whiten your teeth.
  • What leaky gums are.
  • The potential downsides of using conventional toothpaste.
  • Which essential oils are beneficial for oral care.
  • How the mouth’s microbiome works. 
  • Natural treatments to eradicate bad breath.
  • The benefits of tongue scraping.
  • How gum disease and heart disease are related. 
  • The dangers of amalgam dental fillings. 
  • Why a cavity is like an infection (and how it can heal!)
  • How to choose the right toothbrush, and how to brush for gum health.



Items mentioned in this episode include:

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Welcome to The Model Health Show. This is fitness and nutrition expert Shawn Stevenson and I am so grateful for you tuning in with me today.

I am super excited about this episode. This topic is a long time coming. Today we're focusing on our teeth. Alright, we're focusing on oral care, what are the best practices, what are the things to avoid? I know that for a lot of people, this is a big place of concern. How do we handle issues of things like gingivitis and issues with cavities and things of that nature? What about whitening our teeth? What do we do? And today, I think you're going to have an entirely new paradigm shift take place in understanding what you're actually seeing when you see your teeth and your gums.

And it is a phenomenal, we got one of the top experts in the world on dental health here today to share her incredible insights with you and just in the context of looking at things from a bigger perspective today, a lot of us are shifting over and we're avoiding toxic products, deodorants that have known carcinogens, things like aluminum in them, and our toothpaste and we're getting more natural versions of those things, but are we truly aware when we have a product that has 30 different ingredients in it, do we know what it's doing to our teeth and to our gums, and to the microbiome in our mouth?

This is one of the other big paradigms and understanding, we don't just have a gut microbiome, we also have a microbiome in our mouth, and it is really the front-line of protection for a health because our interaction with many of the things that we consume, before it even gets to our gut microbiome, it's going through the front-line of our mouth microbiome. And some of the things that we are doing today, largely for so many people are really just destroying the microbiome in our mouth, and we're inhibiting not just the health of our teeth, but our overall health and our ability to digest our food properly our ability to absorb nutrients even if we're not taking care of this mouth microbiome. And so again, really, really excited about this episode we're going to talk about taking care of your teeth, we're going to talk about preventing cavities, even what to do if you have some cavities brewing.

And how to take care of, you got the stink breath, alright? Now this is another thing that's grown in public awareness, things like halitosis, chronically stink breath, what do we do what are the different aspects of that? And so we're going to talk about all that stuff because I know for many people, and myself included, it's like, Okay, we'll go natural have some natural deodorant, but don't do that, if you're going to be around me smelling like outside. Smelling like a farm. I want to do this, but still be sexy. I want to do this and still be able to have a conversation and not offend somebody, because your mouth smells like last year, you feel me. So how can we do this stuff have great oral care taking a natural approach but still having the sexy be a continuous thread through it all. Alright, so with that said, we’re going to talk about sexy nutrition really quickly and since we're talking about the topic of our teeth and really the bed that they lay in is our gums, our gums are, as we're going to hear about today, so important in our overall health and we even know that, with inflammation of the gums we see this higher levels of things. I see reactive protein, but this is a huge indicator of systemic inflammation. Our gums, having inflammation inflamed gums also is a big parallel to issues like heart disease.

Which is a huge thing. And this is something that is pretty well known today and you should go to Dr. Google and check out the correlation between gum disease, and heart issues. It's shocking. So we want to really take care of our gums. And I just came across this study, and this was actually conducted in 2012. Found that turmeric the compounds in turmeric can actually prevent gum disease. In this particular study, they found that it was able to remove plaque, remove nefarious bacteria and helped to reduce inflammation. And again, we don't think about that in terms of food, when we think about helping to prevent gingivitis, I remember seeing the commercials.

Listerine, let me go ahead and just burn everything in my mouth. Trying to burn down the whole house. You think about this in the context of our gut microbiome, we know that taking haphazard antibiotic treatments it destroys everything. It really turns the entire cascade of bacteria upside down, it doesn't care if it's a good bacteria or not, same thing with our mouth, natural real food-based ingredients, like turmeric are one of those things that help from the inside out, to protect your gums. And for me, I get in my healthy daily dose of turmeric through incredible blends from Organifi, their gold formula, the hallmark ingredient is organic turmeric.

They also have in that formula ginger, reishi mushroom which is great for improving your sleep and also turkey-tail mushroom. Both of those have really powerful immuno-modulating effects that are great for helping your oral care as well and it tastes amazing. That's one of the big things to communicate. Cinnamon is another thing that's great for your oral health as well, and it has coconut milk, blends great if you add something like some unsweetened almond milk, mixing it with that. I love adding this to smoothies too. A lot of folks funny enough, have this at night to help them to relax and improve their sleep quality. That's the thing I hear the most when people do the gold is that it helps them to sleep better, and it's probably a big result of a turmeric doing its thing, and also the reishi mushroom in there too. And so huge fan of the gold. Pop over there and check it out. It's That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com, forward slash model, and you get 20% off their gold formula the green juice formula the red juice and even their daily turmeric, which I'm another... I travel with that I love that one so much. And again, there's so many benefits from reducing information to helping to improve the health of our gums, and as you’re going to learn today, it's super important. So again, for 20% off everything that they carry. And now let's get to our apple podcast review of the week.

iTunes Review: Another five-star review titled, “New Adventures” by Kobin Grill. “I feel each time I listen to a new podcast, I'm experiencing wonderful adventures. I learn a lot and I'm truly inspired. Keep it going please!!”

Shawn Stevenson: Awesome, it's totally my pleasure, we're going on a wonderful adventure, today as well. And if you get to do so, please pop to Apple Podcasts and leave a review for the show. I appreciate it so much. And on that note, let's get to our special guest and topic of the day. Our guest today is Nadine Artemis and she is an innovative visionary and wellness and beauty expert, author of two hit books including Renegade Beauty and the complete guide to healthy teeth and gums. She's a creator of living libation, a luxury line of organic wild crafted and non-GMO serums, elixirs and essential oils for those seeking the purest of the pure botanical natural health, immune enhancing and beauty products on the planet.

And a little fun fact is that so many leaders in the health space turn to Nadine's wisdom to take care of their own teeth and their own oral care. And I'm so grateful to have her on today. And so, we're going to jump into this conversation with Nadine Artemis. You know when I asked him to throw me this pen, it made me think about my wife and she gets kind of cocky about stuff. See, I can do it. I threw her something yesterday and she caught it and she thinks it's her, but it's actually a good throw. Is what makes it work, you know what I mean? But you got an interesting throw from your environment from your parents. And I was wondering, and I'm so excited to have you here, but I was wondering, what got her interested in health and wellness. And so I was just researching you, looking to some of your background and your environment didn't necessarily say "Hey health and wellness. So can you tell me where that interest come from? Talk a little bit about your dynamic, 'cause your mom was very much into art and such a dynamic person. There you had an entrepreneur, parent.

Nadine Artemis: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Well the great thing too about my mom is there's three of us kids and she really was able to somehow really guide each person's talent. So my brothers and sisters are very... We're all very diverse, very different people. So that was a testament to her loving us, equally, but seeing the individuation. So there was that, but we also... We had a cottage and which is like a country home or a Lakeside home in Canada, and there was just... I was immersed in nature all summer long, and it was just like you went out after breakfast, and he came home at 9:00 at night, and I was left to my own devices, and I could stare at a patch of grass or build forts with leaves and things, and I was just so into grinding plants and mixing things, even just mud and stuff like that and putting it on my body. So I had this inclination then, and then when I wasn't at the cottage, I would definitely be raiding my mother's bathroom and mixing her expensive perfumes with the skull and cross bones things under the sink.

Shawn Stevenson: So you're a little chemist.

Nadine Artemis: A little chemist, we're in the early, early years, but so fond of nature, and it was really like once it's being taken away, sort of when you go to university and all that, it's like I’m going to get back there for sure, but I did a science for a project in grade 9. I didn't know what I was going to do, so I was researching the library and I found a book that was geared to a younger audience about making cosmetics, and I was thrilled because my bathroom was just bottles and I got all the hand-me-downs. It was really crazy in there in my teens, but it was a chapter on perfumery. And it talked about like the whole history of it and how they came from plants, and that was radical information back then. And it really talked about the history of Egypt, which I was very fascinated by because my great grandfather was actually the president of the London Egyptology Society and he would go on archeological digs as the illustrator. So he would do the paintings of what they were finding and that was back in the 1800s.

Shawn Stevenson: Wow.

Nadine Artemis: So I was just really resonating with that. And the book talked about the distillation of plants being essential oils, and that today you could find them at the health food store back. But today being back then... And so my mom took me to the big city, we went to Toronto and I found my first essential oils, and then I recreated L'air du Temp with natural essential oils for the project, and so that was really fun. But then I'm still being a teen and exploring. And then sort of the first inkling of green beauty came out with the body shop and so I thought that was pretty cool. But then I get to university, I'm skipping school. And I'm watching Lisa Bonet on TV talk about... It was Diet for a New America and it was the first I'd heard of health and environment being connected to the food that we're eating and so that opened up a whole thing, and in that period it was about a month-long period.

I stopped eating processed food. I only ate organic and then I really started reading labels and understanding what I was looking out at the supermarket which totally led me to going, "What am I putting on my body?" So within a month, I just eliminated all of that and I started diving into creating my own cosmetics in earnest, as I was going through university and learning other things, so it was really neat. And then at university I was diving into... I was really bored first year, but then I discovered women studies. And the cool thing about that, I mean our textbooks were things like Our Bodies Ourselves, we were getting educated on the horrors of IUDs and birth controls. I was doing projects on midwifery, I was doing papers on Madonna, and...

My thesis was on the female orgasm. So that was amazing, I was diving into that, and then looking at also the history of women's bodies. It hasn't been a good story in Western culture or really in many parts of the world. And so I was doing all that and then making things, which I really feel are connected, because we also have a history of putting toxins and poisons on our body that we're being marketed to, and we've been experimented on, from medicinal things and all of that. So it really gelled. And then I was needing to find ingredients that I couldn't, 'cause I was reading these older books, and I had to get a whiff of what formulas or raw materials were smelling like in the like Egyptian times, why were they putting those things together, and what did Angelica or Immortelle smell like? So I was starting to import essential oils, because there wasn't the quality available back then. And then six months after graduating, I opened up North America's first full concept aroma therapy store, and I had all my little formulas out, and we had the blending bar and everything. So...

Shawn Stevenson: Talk about the blending bar, what does that mean?

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, so it was really fun. It was a fun concept and, yeah, I would we'd make custom blended perfumes for people. So people would come in and then we'd make... It was really fun. That's where I first met Alanis Morissette, 'cause she had heard about the store, and then we had a mutual friend, and the friend was like, "Oh my God, I know her, we can go to the store." So, we met after one of her concerts in Toronto. And then she came and she was just like a kid in the candy store, just smelling everything, and I was making a blend for her. And then it what was really neat too is we also sold essential oils by the drop or you could buy bottles. So people would come in with little things and get like a drop of rose and everything. It was really awesome.

Shawn Stevenson: Oh my gosh, so cool. I just want to go back and just, first of all shoutout to Lisa Bonet.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Shawn Stevenson: While wow, I of course saw her on The Cosby Show, but a different world. I was like, "Yeah, yeah." It was a young crush. But I saw her, she also shouted you out. She is one of the people who reviewed your book.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, which was so amazing. And then it was such a neat thing was a few years ago, we were at a birthday party here in Topanga, and mutual friends, so she comes up to me, and I'm like, and she's looking familiar. But she comes up and she's like, "Oh my God, I just heard your whole breast talk, and it was just so amazing." And so she was thanking me, and I was like, "Oh my God," but truly, you instigate... Knowing what she said about food, it was totally connected to un-dissecting beauty care products. So it was like she was such a catalyst for me, it was such a fun full circle moment.

Shawn Stevenson: But those things happen all the time when you're paying attention too. And you're just on your purpose. And so with that being said, your purpose and I would love if you could, it was such an interesting concept to make the store in the way that you made it, custom things, because these essential oils, there's different things and different things for different people at different times. Can you first share what essential oils, what does that mean?

Nadine Artemis: Yes. Yeah, it can get confusing, 'cause essential oils actually aren't oily, they're not fat, there's no fat in them. So they're actually volatile plant extracts that are made generally through the process of distillation. So you'll have, you'll harvest lavender and that will be in a distillation unit, they'll be a heat source underneath. And then the essential oil, it's kind of like the blood of a plant, and not all plants have it, it's an aromatic molecule and it's part of the plant's defense system. And so then that becomes the oil becomes just vapor. And then it goes through a cooling coil where then it comes sort of back to life in its solid form of a liquid, but it doesn't meld with water in the sense that it's an oil that doesn't mix with water, but it is an oil. And then they'll skim that off, the water, and what's left would be like lavender water or rose water, if you've heard of those terms. And then the essential oil, which it takes up so many plants to make a few drops. So for example, rose is more expensive, because it takes 60 rose heads to make one drop of Rose Otto essential oil.

So I love all plants and extracts, but essential oils just have such a special quality. They're so multifaceted, because there's this sense of smell. So it's speaking to us on an emotional and sort of psycho-spiritual level. However, if you couldn't smell, if you had a bottle of rosemary under your nose and you can't smell it, it's still working on the body on a physiological way. So those molecules will travel up through the nose, activate the hypothalamus, and then the molecules go and do their work, whether it's helping the lungs, or liver, or... So they're very, very medicinal as well. So they're beautiful. You can make a perfume or they're hardcore medicine. Because to varying degrees, all essential oils are anti-fungal, anti-viral, anti-bacterial and anti-inflammatory.

Shawn Stevenson: Wow.

Nadine Artemis: So, they're potent.

Shawn Stevenson: This is so important, because we tend to think of just, when we think about nutrition, now more people are aware of what you put on your skin or what you're ingesting via your mouth, but also you're all factory senses of like the things that you're breathing in. But I think that it's important to realize that the most important nutrient in our life is oxygen and we're breathing it in. So, this would just give us a little parallel, of the things you breathe have an incredible impact on every cell in your body. And also the things that you smell, like it's in you now.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, scent is a brother to breath. And so, yeah, we want to inhale good smelling stuff, because otherwise we can't escape it.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.

Nadine Artemis: Like nothing like just being behind exhaust or an elevator of cologne and you can't escape.

Shawn Stevenson: Or a sun on a high protein diet.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: You know?

Nadine Artemis: Yes.

Shawn Stevenson: That's what I thought about. But... So just with that, there's so many things I want to ask you about, and we can just talk about all the different dynamics with essential oil, but I would really love to know what shifted your attention to oral care? Because this is such a... It's so crazy that we compartmentalize this. It's just like dental health is separate from the rest of your body.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: But it's so interconnected. What's going on with your mouth is a huge indication of things that are even happening with your cardiovascular system.

Nadine Artemis: Absolutely. Or even can end up being a pre-term pregnancy. It's so connected, yeah. So in that time when at university, I'm exploring and doing all those things, also at the same time, 'cause I'm then buying every book at the health food store and seeing like, "Oh my God, if you have a headache, it's like this, this and this, or maybe you're constipated or something," it's not just like, "Oh take a Tylenol." So I was really... All new information back then, especially for me, and it wasn't like it is today.

So that being said, I kind of understood a lot to do with the body and the systems. But then when it came to teeth, I felt a gap, and there wasn't books. There was a lot I could find out about the body, and any kind of little... All those little ailments we all seem to have, like eczemas, you know what I mean, there were so many solutions for that naturally, and not the teeth. And of course, I had to take care of my teeth, I'm in my 20s, you're out on your own, you're no longer on the family dental plan. And the first... I remember at 22 finding out about mercury and fully having those removed right away the moment I understood the truth about that. But then I'm going to the... What was a holistic dentist back then. She wasn't too holistic, but the hygienist was really good. And so she was saying, "Well you know, your gums are in good condition but you have a cavity starting here." And she said, "But you can take care of it." So that was also revolutionary. I didn't... Once you had a cavity, you just got it filled.

So she's like, "Go home and work with all those things you work with." And then I did, and I came up with... That was the first formula for the Happy Gum Drops. And I applied it, and I worked with it, and then I went back in six months to X-ray it, and it was gone, the beginning of the cavity. So that was fascinating to learn. And then that started sort of a revolution, and then I was making more dental care lines and that sort of stuff. But then also just like really there is a gap in how to take care of our teeth on a daily level. So I believe it was around 2009, and I had a lot of information I put together. So I just self-published my own dental book, and people were like, "You won't get published." I was like, "I don't care, 'cause it just needs to be out there." But that's actually what led to getting published just on a... I don't know of anybody that's self-publishing. And there was... I just started to see the whole interconnection, and researching people like Dr. Weston Price or Dr. Melvin Page. And then I came across... And Dr. Hal Huggins. And I came across this really rare book of Dr. Hal Huggins. He was such a pioneer in dental work and telling us about mercury since 1963. And it was this book called "Why Raise Ugly Kids?"

'Cause he has such a sense of humor. And it was all different kinds of things. There's a really good dental chapter. And there was one line where he said all of his dental knowledge was washed away like a sand castle on the beach because he met with Dr. Steinem, and he explained that there's a dentinal lymph fluid, a dentinal lymph system. So our teeth have their own lymphatic system. And that that's how cavities are formed. It's not the acidogenic theory of acids and sugars sitting on the teeth. It's of course a deep alchemical system in our body that has to do with hormones in the hypothalamus and all of that. So, yeah. We chew food, the substrates are activating the parotid glands and the hypothalamus, which is sending messengers. And so from our digestive system, the blood comes up with all the nutrients up to the tooth area. And the tooth is like a tree where the roots are drawing up the nutrients, and then in a centrifugal fashion, upwards and inwards, up to the surface of... That goes through the pulp chamber, and then the odontoid blast is all happening on a microscopic level. They push out the dentinal lymph fluid onto the surface of the tooth like this microscopic sweat, and then that coalesces with the saliva to heal, repair the teeth and prevent cavities.

When we're getting stressed, we don't have enough nutrients, we don't have magnesium, we don't have K2, D3, all those beautiful nutrients. Or we're talking on the cellphone by our parotid gland all day, or there's a lot of fluoride affecting the glandular system, all those types of things. Then that dentinal lymph fluid system stagnates so then the nutrients aren't getting to the teeth or in a worse conditions, it begins to reverse. And then the tooth becomes like a straw sucking in viruses and bacteria into the tooth, and that's the genesis of how cavities are formed. So of course it's fully systemic.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, that's incredible, because that's like demystifying something that has impacted probably the vast majority of people. And we think again, sugar, but it's a different route with the sugar...

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, it's more about your blood sugar levels.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: 'Cause we tend to treat just the surface, right? We're doing the window dressing. And I love that analogy of it being like the roots and the tree. And you mentioned even a cell phone. I remember coming across some research, this was years ago, about this sharp increase in parotid gland tumors since the advent of cell phones. And it's just like for me, I'm very analytical and I'm just looking at it like, "How does that even make sense?" But all of these different waves. Again, we talked about aromas, it's particles we're absorbing. There's waves and frequencies, and even like... And if we talk about WiFi, it's able to travel through walls, different frequencies. Your body is... We are very sensitive, and we're electromagnetic atoms. So stuff travels through us easy. And the closer we put these dangers... And there's even warnings on cell... Or they used to be, like, don't pull it up to your head. Where am I supposed to put it? You know what I mean. And so because... We have to be aware of this stuff, I'm glad that you brought that up. So you mentioned this concept of we have an internal toothbrush.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: Basically.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: So talk a little bit more about that.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, I love that, because of course, we have so much decay right now, but of course, we weren't born with a toothbrush in our hand. So I feel like, sure, we're going to take care of our teeth, but what if we get out of the way? What's the body's natural system to actually take care of our teeth? And it's this fluid that comes out onto the teeth, this sort of microscopic sweat. That prevents cavities, it prevents biofilms, it prevents all the build-up because we want to get to that place where what if we didn't have toothpaste or anything? The teeth are designed to stay in the body, so we’re going to figure that out. And the thing that also was different from what I thought of teeth growing up, 'cause it would just seem like the teeth they grew, and if there's a... If a cavity comes, again, you're filling it, it's a done deal. What I didn't understand, but what I know is true is that the teeth are alive, the mouth is alive, and it's connected to the rest of the body. So whatever condition your mouth is in right now, it can improve. Gum pockets can come back down, you don't have to necessarily have gum surgery. Enamel can heal. You can get whiter teeth without bleach. We can rebalance the microbiome in our mouths.

Shawn Stevenson: And I want to talk about all these things. The first thing I want to cover, since we just left there, let's talk about whitening.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: Because even... It's so weird that we think... We're kind of trying to polish the teeth or buffer our teeth with a toothbrush, but our teeth are not what they appear to be.

Nadine Artemis: Yes, yeah. I love that understanding about whiteness 'cause we're a bit obsessed. It's again sort of the surface veneer stuff that we keep trying to tackle with health, but it doesn't really work. So the enamels are actually transparent like a window, and it reflects the inside of the tooth, so that if the dentin and the pulp chamber is healthy, and I think of it as like fat because you hopefully getting all those fat-soluble vitamins, then that will reflect out. And then, you will look like you have whiter teeth because then you're reflecting that out. So if there is... So hopefully, you're having a good diet and if there's really nutrients lacking, you're going to see that gray, glassy teeth. I don't know if you've ever seen people with that. It's cause the nutrients aren't getting there and no amount of bleach is going to clear that up either. So whiteness really comes from within.

Now, if you're doing all that, but you're still feeling about a discoloration, it could be older calculus or tartar build up. And then, a lot of our people are eating pigment-rich foods, and so the spirulina, the red wine, the blueberries can be discoloring just the calculus and plaque buildup. So you want to make sure you're going to have a clean mouth to start. And a lot of holistic dentists have a salt spray they use and it's kind of like when they sand blast old buildings. And so, you can salt blast your teeth, and that's a great way that it... And once you have that done, your teeth are going to be so white, you don't need the bleach and then you'll just clear off all the old plaques. So we don't need... 'Cause the bleaching will set you into a cycle of thinning teeth that are eventually yellowing, and you get in a vicious cycle of needing the bleach more and more.

Shawn Stevenson: That's scary.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: And then of course, and this is super important to talk about. I grew up... I remember when the toothpaste came out. It was Aquafresh and then... And also, in the commercial, they show this huge whipping cream on top of your toothbrush, and it says use a pea size amount 'cause it's poisonous.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: But these different whitening toothbrushes...

Nadine Artemis: And may be harmful if swallowed.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: So let's talk about that because so many of these... And I know people listening is like, "But I’m going to have my Crest."

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: It keeps them right. Let's talk about what the potential downside is with these conventional toothpaste.

Nadine Artemis: So many, so many things. I do tell people, if you get sea salt, baking soda... I make a beautiful line of dental serums, but I even forget that. Just ditch everything you have and go for just baking soda and sea salt. If you did that for the rest of your life, you'd be a million times better off than using things from the drug store. There's so many issues with that. I kind of have this thing where I say, "Stop, seal and seed." So to stop, you want to stop using the Crest, the triclosan, the sodium oral sulfate, that's creating bleeding gums. And then allowing, once you have bleeding gums, and all the chemicals from the toothpaste is going into your body even faster.

Shawn Stevenson: Because the gums are like our front line of defense.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, and they're only one cell thin. It's the epithelium, so it's everything's going in.

Shawn Stevenson: So it's like leaky gums.

Nadine Artemis: It is, yeah. I said that in my book. I kind of made up that leaky gums and the cavities kind of like a leaky tooth, and of 'course it's connected to leaky guts and all that. But yes, we wanted the mouth washes.

Shawn Stevenson: We need stop leaking, come on.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, we’re going to stop leaking them and leaking our energy list.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.

Nadine Artemis: And then, not to get into brand names, but I guess, it doesn't matter. But alcohol mouthwashes, you guys Google it. It's something like 36,000 cases of oral cancer a year.

Shawn Stevenson: You could say, Listerine, out here messing people up. Yeah, it's crazy.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, yeah. And that's like right your toothpaste, your mouthwash that you swig, it's not helping. And then so, besides the chemicals, which I feel like we've kind of all been getting to know since the 90s. We're like, "Oh, yeah. These chemicals we're putting on our body." But now, with understanding the microbiome, now we know, not only are these chemicals disrupting our endocrine system, they're messing with the microbiome, they're mutating microbes and beneficial bacteria that we need in our mouths to keep it all in balance. The beneficial bacteria will keep that strep bacteria from preventing the cavities. And then also, even antibiotics. So if you got more serious and you need the antibiotic toothpaste or mouthwash, it can't bust through those biofilms. But what's really neat, now that we know about the microbiome, and we know that essential oils things like tea tree, myrrh, frankincense, neem, cardamom, cinnamon clove, they've been used for centuries for oral care. And now, through scientific research, we can see that they are able to inhibit quorum sensing of the pathogens, they stop the pathogen parties from communicating and growing, and they're able to bust through the biofilms, clean them up, and still be friendly to the friendly bacteria. So they're amazing for oral care.

Shawn Stevenson: People, I hope you hear this. Our mouths have their own microbiome and it is our front line of protection along with the gums. And when you damage that microbiome, same thing with our gut microbiome, we're inviting in pathogenic bacteria, we're inviting in problems. And so, when we're using these very harsh... I remember being a kid and that brown Listerine, come on. I mean, it's just so nasty, but it's just like, when you swish with that, it just makes you feel like 30 years older. But it was just like, we're supposed to do that. And also, it's just, it's painful. Some of the stuff would actually be so painful burning your mouth because of the alcohol, and what other chemical's in there. But I want to address this because a lot of people also are like... I want that minty fresh feeling in my mouth. How do we go with the natural treatments without having stink mouth?

Nadine Artemis: Oh, well the great thing is, it eradicates stink mouth to a more root level, because you've got actual mint with its anti-inflammatory antibacterial qualities that are actually dealing with those gases and those VOCs that are coming up from the guts of the body. So you're actually really getting to the root of it, 'cause it's clearing up the bacteria that causes the odor rather than just a synthetic aroma or taste of mint, that's only the taste of it. And obviously, it's going to be minty fresh but it's not dealing with anything.

Shawn Stevenson: Right. It actually has a purpose.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: It actually is doing something beneficial. That's so cool. So while we're talking about the oral health and also another area to care for, what about the tongue?

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, we got a tongue scrape. And that's so easy. If you don't have one. You can just use the spoon upside down and clear that out. Yeah, it's just so good to clear the tongue and once you do it, you won't go back.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.

Nadine Artemis: And that helps with breath too.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, it's one of the things... I'm just going to confess, it's like one of the things I look for, from watching something, somebody... Social media. Oh their tongue is like so...

Nadine Artemis: Oh yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: You could see, it's like they might have a coating there, but then it's like coffee on the coating. You know what I mean?

Nadine Artemis: Dear Miley Cyrus, when she had a phase where she was sticking out her tongue.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, it wasn't looking too right.

Nadine Artemis: No. It was funny. And there were some online acupuncture people. There's the traditional Chinese medicine it has great analysis of tongue health.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, I don't want people acting weird like, "Well, now I’m going to make sure I'm not showing my tongue." It's just something I think about because of just looking into oral care, and that's why I'm so happy to do this episode. And having the very best person to talk about this stuff. But we have to clean that freaking tongue, clean your tongue.

Nadine Artemis: We have eight steps that are in my books and also on our site and it will take you through the steps that will... Including tongue scraping, to really help turn your mouth around or if you haven't been to the dentist in a while, do those steps for three to six months and you'll have a much more successful appointment.

Shawn Stevenson: So awesome. So you mentioned biofilm, a couple of times, can you talk a little bit more about what that is exactly?

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, so we can get them internally in the body and heart health, and that... And in the mouth, it's just, it's like a colony of bacteria that can't fully be penetrated, and then it's like they set up sort of a hotel system in there, they move in, and we do want to bust through those biofilms 'cause it actually inhibits the teeth from having... They actually have their own respiration system, so the teeth need to breathe and even so, we want to bust the biofilms, but even in a natural tooth paste, like at the health food store, you may find stuff with glycerin in it, which seems like an innocuous ingredient but it actually coats the teeth isn't removed from rinsing and blocks that breathing, it blocks the saliva from doing its job.

Shawn Stevenson: There's a song called glycerin. Who sings this song? I know somebody knows. Bush. Bush. See. So I know somebody in the studio is going to know it. It's a good song, by the way, but not good for your teeth, not good for your teeth.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, let's listen to the song.

Shawn Stevenson: Oh my goodness, this is so good and I want to talk about toothbrushes. I want to talk about something that I think about, even when I'm watching old movies. And we're going to do that right after this quick break, so seat tight, we'll be right back.

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Alright, we're back and we're talking with Nadine Artemis, about our oral care, the care of our teeth, our gums our tongue, and it's really important for us to understand that we get a real glimpse into our health when we take a look at what's happening with our mouth with our teeth. And the funny thing is it's like there's so many things about us, we can't see that's happening internally and our teeth are kind of like internal, but then you can open up and see them. And there's some data that I love for you to talk about relating gum disease and things like that, to issues with our heart for example. So how is that?

Nadine Artemis: Yes, isn't that neat? It was the plaque and sort of swallowing the plaque all the time, and there's the heart doctor, Steven Sinatra.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.

Nadine Artemis: He says, "If you floss regularly, you could add seven years to your life because you're not swallowing all that plaque into your body. And that's what I was saying before about having early birth premature birth, is hooked up to gum disease in the mouth. It can be just literally because if there's gum disease, which apparently 98% of the North American population has. So that's an issue. And also in my book, I have a chapter on vaginal health, but I go in there and talk about, 'cause there's a vaginal microbiome and the oral microbiome. If it's off, it can affect that for women, and it can actually be a root cause of infertility.

Shawn Stevenson: Wow.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: And we don't think about that at all.

Nadine Artemis: We don't think about that at all.

Shawn Stevenson: 'Cause we think we're separate. Everything is separate.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, and that's really how I definitely remember being raised like that. And you also like... So your mouth is this separate thing and then there's also no sovereignty, you hand over like, "I'm just going to go to the doctor." There was no collaboration or partnership in health. So I really feel like we're moving out of that time. And that made the body more of a mystery. More unknown. Well, it's only the area for the doctor to know. And your mouth is only for the dentist to know. And that's really been a part of my work. I'm not a dentist, but I've got teeth, and I need to know how to take care of them on a daily basis, instead of once a year at the dentist.

Shawn Stevenson: Right, 'cause your dentist doesn't live with you.

Nadine Artemis: No.

Shawn Stevenson: Unless you're married to a dentist. Or you are a dentist, but... Yeah, that's the thing, is sharing a little bit about my story too. We outsource our health to the "expert". But you should be the number one expert on you... You live with you? And having that collaborative effort because our physicians, our dentists... This could be helpful people, but even the word doctor means teacher.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: And just looking at these are coaches, these are people to work together towards a common goal. Because especially if they're a teacher, that there's going to be a goal. Their coach is a goal. We're going the same direction. If your physician or your dentist is not on the same page with you in the direction you want to go, get somebody else.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: We have so many great resources now and I'd love to talk about... So, first of all there is this... It's been around a long time, but now it's just grown in awareness of holistic dentistry. So, can we talk about... You mentioned mercury earlier a couple of times, what is the danger? I know a lot of people know but just let's recap the danger of having mercury in the mouth, which is still a lot of people do. And what is an alternative if somebody needs a filling?

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, so mercury fillings are those silver fillings. 'cause I've definitely run into people before they're like, Oh I don't have the mercury, I have the silver. But if its silver colored, it's the amalgam filling and not only is the Mercury toxic, it's the whole combo there's copper and nickel in there as well, and when a dentist removes mercury from your mouth, there's a whole hazmat protocol. That Mercury doesn't change when it's left your mouth, so they have to... It's full Hazmat. It's a bio hazard. But again, it didn't change it didn't alchemize, once it left your mouth so it's in your mouth. And what we now know is that whether that filing is a day old or 40 years old, it releases mercury vapors into the body 24/7 with only increasing by 1500% when you're chewing or drinking hot liquids.

Shawn Stevenson: Oh my gosh.

Nadine Artemis: I live on a beautiful small lake, it's about 26 acres. If two mercury fillings were tossed into that lake, it would be deemed un-swimable.

Shawn Stevenson: That's crazy.

Nadine Artemis: By the EPA. These are EPA stats and yet we are implanting mercury fillings inches from our brain on children, pregnant women, and just about everybody, it's insane.

Shawn Stevenson: It's one of the most toxic substances humans play with.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: And we can always throw it in some teeth.

Nadine Artemis: Yes. Apparently, 'cause it was used 'cause it melds really easily and then it's still recommended for children if they're a bit more squirmish in a dental chair, 'cause it's easier to apply. But many countries abandoned it, we just have to catch up. Obviously, there's some vested interests that might be making it harder to remove. And then, so if you need a filling, also, do you need a filling? Hopefully, you're really at a dentist that seeing that what also what we don't know we didn't learn growing up is and like I explained a while ago is I did reverse the beginning of a cavity and you can reverse cavities. You have to, because it's a sign from your body that you're not getting something. So it doesn't always go back to pure white, but they will solidify and you will literally not have the cavity anymore, it's an infection. If our hand was infected, our skin was infected, we can heal it and it would close up. It's the same with the mouth. So we also need to just know that there's a paradigm shift there that we can know. And then there's the... You want to have the cleanest filling options possible, which there's still room for improvement there, but if you really are seeing a holistic, a biological dentist, then they should have the cleanest options available.

Shawn Stevenson: So one of those be like porcelain.

Nadine Artemis: Porcelain has nickel in it, so actually. And it's way more expensive so everybody can just let go of that one. 'Cause I used to think it was better, but it isn't. So you're just going to look for different fillings, there's more ceramic now. There's BPA-free, but I just feel like that's actually pretty BS because...

Shawn Stevenson: It's a tricky place to get into.

Nadine Artemis: It's still plastic. Yeah, so hopefully you can just actually prevent it. Maybe you don't need a filling. There will be stems, we will be able to grow new teeth through stem cells any moment now. They have done it, it's just not like in all the dentist's offices.

Shawn Stevenson: Widely available.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah. They kind of put a little like shape casing and then it kind of grows in there.

Shawn Stevenson: Interesting.

Nadine Artemis: So, there's hope for the future.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, yeah, and that makes me think about the past, when I would, from looking at old documentaries or even shows based on older times, The Witcher on Netflix is like this fantasy, but there are swords and riding horses and dragons that kind of thing. And I literally, I'm sitting there a lot of times and I'll see two people in close contact, maybe it's like the love interest situation. I'm just like, "This was back then, minus the dragons. I bet their breath stinks." I'm just like, "How were they taking care of their teeth? They didn't have toothbrushes." And that's my question for you, is just like, a lot of these things are newer inventions. And so, what were humans doing prior? Because you would think we'd have poor tooth health, but that wasn't the case. Even when we find remains people, they're elderly and also have, still have their teeth and they're healthy.

Nadine Artemis: Well, that's due to the diets, generally speaking, and in different cultures, like Ayurveda or people that had really early medicinal systems going on, they were using all the plants to take care of, they were chewing on sticks and branches. In North America would have been like dogwood twigs and there could be neem or mastic.

Shawn Stevenson: In Kenya, my wife's country, she would chew sugarcane.

Nadine Artemis: Oh, how interesting is that.

Shawn Stevenson: Ironic, yeah.

Nadine Artemis: Yes. Yeah, so you can see it's pretty mineral rich. And then, really, thankfully for the work of Dr. Weston Price who was the president of the American Dental Association in the 1930s, and then he traveled around the world, sort of like Indiana Jones style with his wife, and they went to the Pacific coast, or the Hebrides in Scottish islands, or tropical places, or in the Swiss Alps looking at the difference between the skulls of the St. Tropez tourist town, or the mountain town where they were still eating their sourdough bread and grass-fed butter, and able to examine the skulls that they kept in the church, you know what I mean? I don't know why they kept them in the basement of church, but it was good for him. He could see that there was integrity. So, the St. Tropez skulls were all decayed and everything. Or in the Hebrides, you'd have twins, one lived inland, one lived at the port, so he was able to eat the jams and scones and stuff, and just like total decay, where the brother who ate traditionally still had his full teeth and structure of his head, 'cause it affects... The growth of our teeth and jaw is going to reflect the skull as an adult.

Shawn Stevenson: Oh my gosh, it's so fascinating. And plus we have the internal toothbrush.

Nadine Artemis: Yes.

Shawn Stevenson: The invisible toothbrush.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, and that was all working back then, generally speaking.

Shawn Stevenson: Oh, man, so fascinating. And so, but with that said, our culture today, and even just having a little bit more "hygiene", and which is helpful because again, if we're talking and I'm smelling like your... I don't know, the deer meat you ate, or whatever, I don't know, it might not be pleasant. Deer meat and coffee, whatever. And so, taking care of our teeth today, toothbrushes, there is a lot of different options, but are we even using them correctly? That's the thing, because there's harder bristles and things like that. Let's talk about that a little bit.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, so that is important. Everybody should use a soft bristled head. Even a big macho man, he just needs a soft one. And then, you want to cleanse your toothbrush often too, so you can just have a like 3% hydrogen peroxide solution at night and you could dip it in there and rinse it off in the morning, because we don't want to keep recycling, bringing in the older bacteria and stuff, so that's important. And every family member should kind of keep their toothbrushes spread apart 'cause they will... The bacteria will jump around, so you want to do that, and then, your toothbrush six months down the road should look like, the bristle should look like the day you bought it. You don't want them splayed in any way. If they're spread like that, that means you're brushing way too hard, and we have a serious issue with receding gums, and part of that is from brushing too hard.

And also, we go back and forth, back and forth, and you don't want to do that either. You want to go from the gum down on the top row, and the gum up on the bottom row, so you just, you do a lift on the back. You’re going to do it a little bit slower and you'll get used to that new rhythm, but that's very important because that gum line, where the gum and the teeth meet, is where a lot can go off, and the enamel there isn't the same, so you can get those gum line cavities once the gums start receding. And so, I talk in my book about you want your gums like a turtle neck around all the teeth and you don't want to be getting into a cowl neck, V-neck situation. So, we really have to take care of that, and we even have these syringes that are blunt-tipped and you could put some baking soda water in there, so that's like a nice alkaline water, a couple drops of the dental serum, and then you can flush out all the gum pockets of the bacteria in the plaque and then the gums will start coming back down around the teeth.

Shawn Stevenson: I love that so much. That's great analogy, a turtleneck. It's the only turtleneck I want. I do not like turtlenecks at all. My wife loves them. It just feels like somebody really is just choking me.

Nadine Artemis: Choking, yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: All day. And I think it's getting this a big paradigm shift, because for a lot of us, we're just trying to get the stuff off of our teeth, plaque, and so, we're going to be scrubbing hard. So, that's a huge insight. Now, what about the type of toothbrush itself? Are you looking at electric toothbrushes?

Nadine Artemis: I love... So, I have... In my eight steps, I talk about using two different toothbrushes, and I love there's an ionic toothbrush, and what that does is through light, it actually clears up 40% of the plaque just through the working with negative ions. So, that's just a manual one, and that's really good for the first part where you're really focusing on the gums, 'cause you do want to get up there and actually brush the gum a bit, too, that will stimulate it and massage it. And then, for the next phase, using an electric toothbrush.

There's a whole bunch out there. I like, there's a little round-headed one, because that's going to be, like it's a different shape than the manual toothbrush, and it can really get in behind the front rows, which can get a lot more plaque, 'cause there's some glands there. And then that phase is like you're really just sort of working on buffing the teeth in that row. So the first time that you're really working with the teeth, the gums, and then the teeth. And the second one, you're really polishing those teeth, avoiding the gums a bit. And that's kind of really buffing them and clearing off the plaque. And even with that, if you use a dental serum or just a pinch of baking soda, and you get a bit of grit, it will be very cleansing.

Shawn Stevenson: Oh my God, this is so fascinating. I think that we've covered a lot of ground here. The thing I think will would be of great interest would be helping with cavities. So is that a protocol in your book that people can look at?

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, it's in there, and it's a little bit deeper of a discussion on some level. But on one level, it is easy to understand, there probably needs to be a dietary change. Something's not being met. And then sort of a checklist you can go through like, "Are you mouth breathing?" That's a huge one for kids and adults, but especially for kids 'cause their faces will literally grow into a different shape. Not that the one that was sort of meant. So, you want to prevent that, which could be eliminating dairy or just finding out the cause of the mouth breathing or maybe there needs to be some osteopathy, or something to kind of get into re-alignment. And then when adults stop mouth... Because again, if you're mouth breathing, you're not allowing the saliva... Our teeth really are in a sea of alkalinity and so the saliva's very important. And when we're mouth breathing, we're drying all that up and not even getting enough oxygen. So it actually really transforms people's lives. It can be a very radical thing to do, which is use mouth tape for an adult and then you wake up like refreshed and rejuvenated, 'cause you actually got oxygen all night long and you were using your nose to breathe.

So that's important. You kind of going to go through a checklist. And then the eight steps using some of our very potent dental serums have really turned people around. Like I'm amazed at the feedback we get and in the dentist going, "I don't know what you're doing, but keep it up."

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, that's exactly what I heard with my spinal condition when I was 20.

Nadine Artemis: Oh yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: When they see the new scan, they're like, "Whatever you're doing, keep doing it."

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, but somehow I'm not curious enough to actually find out what you did, but...

Shawn Stevenson: Let me help some other people with this data.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: This is so awesome. So while we're talking about your book, can you let people know where they can find and where they can find your product line as well?

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, well, our books are anywhere books are sold and on our website, which is And we have all the dental and beautiful things there. And we have a lot of articles too. There's the eight steps in there. I think we have an article braces. And so there's a lot to dive into. And also feel free to email us, we will answer any and all questions. We have a deeply educated team. And we also do free consults for people, like a half-hour video call and you can ask anything. So we have that as well.

Shawn Stevenson: That's amazing! Oh my goodness. Okay, final question: What is the model that you're here to set for other people with how you live your life personally?

Nadine Artemis: Well, for me, I'd like to set my own standards of integrity and live in that alignment. And I think people can feel that in what we create and in the research in my book. So I love to just cut out the BS [chuckle] and also find the most exquisite materials to work with, that the planet has to offer. And then from there, make all these beautiful concoctions. So, also in my lifestyle, we always just aim for just finding the finest things to be surrounded by, and ingest, and partake in.

Shawn Stevenson: Because we deserve it.

Nadine Artemis: And we do. And it's fun, to me, that's a banquet that's just so abundant and fun. So it's like maybe we've talked about a lot of things or maybe in your podcast, you're like, "Don't do this, this, and that," but then a whole other world opens up and life gets a little more beautiful.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. And this was beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing your brilliance. I'm so glad that you were being a little chemist, mixing stuff together when you were a kid, so you could help all of us today. This has been awesome.

Nadine Artemis: Thank you.

Shawn Stevenson: You're welcome. Everybody, thank you so much for tuning into the show today, I hope you got a lot of value out of this. I mean, we went from leaky gums to understanding the impact potentially of mouth breathing and how this impacts our cardiovascular system. We really need to take care of our teeth and our oral care. And when she talked about mouth breathing, I was thinking about Puff Daddy, Sean Puffy Combs, because when I see him, he's always like... I'm just like, "Close your mouth." I know he's mouth breathing, but he's been successful. But the bottomline is truly training ourselves to breathe correctly, because all of these small things do have an impact. And I think that first and foremost, today is just about shifting our paradigm a little bit. A big thing for me was the toothbrush. That is blowing my mind. And I think for a lot of us, at the end of a couple of months, our toothbrushes are looking like you've been cleaning floors with them. Do you know what I mean? They've just been beaten down so much.

And so backing off on those things, understanding first and foremost that our... The health of our teeth is, literally from the inside out, and making sure that we're well-nourished, that we're eating plenty of healthy teeth nutrients, which is talked about in her book as well. And for the topical stuff, we need to shift away from this heavily chemicalized and dangerous ingredients that are in so many different toothpastes. No disrespect to Colgate, Crest, Aquafresh. What is the other one that I used to have? There's so many. And then also for our children as well as, at least, at the least, we can start to upgrade and get products that have more natural ingredients. But even those, let's get to the simplicity and do some of the basic stuff. And don't be afraid of having stank mouth, because we can find natural things that could help to accentuate that good smelling breath. Alright. But again, this is from the inside out. Your mouth is connected to things deeper in your body.

So when you smell somebodies, it's like something died in there? Well, maybe it did. Alright, so inside out, making sure that we're eating good, clean, healthy food, taking care of our teeth. When we're... I'm sure we can, with our toothpaste, like she mentioned, we can add actual essential oil of mint and it has benefits. Essential oil of mint, I didn't even know that was a thing. And it has benefits, not just a flavor sensation, but it actually has some benefits being as she mentioned, 'cause essential oils are anti-viral, anti-bacterial, anti-inflammatory. So many cool things. Alright, so I hope you got a lot of value out of this and it's this shifted your paradigm a little bit to take better care of your teeth, moving forward. And we've got some epic powerhouse shows coming your way soon, but none more important than today. So make sure to share this out with people you care about on social media, and of course, you could tag me. Are you on...

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, Instagram and all of them?

Shawn Stevenson: What's their handle?

Nadine Artemis: LivingLibations.

Shawn Stevenson: LivingLibations! Tag LivingLibations, and let everybody know what you thought about the episode. Alright, I appreciate you guys so much, take care, have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon.

And for more after the show, make sure to head over to the That's where you can find all the show notes, you could find transcriptions, videos for each episode. And if you got a comment, you can leave me a comment there as well. And please make sure to head over to iTunes and leave us a rating to let everybody know that the show is awesome, and I appreciate that so much. And take care, I promise to keep giving you more powerful, empowering great content to help you transform your life. Thanks for tuning in.


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  1. Loved the show! I wish you delved into fluoride more. I love her hair! You must have her back with healthy hair and scalp tips!


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