SHAWN STEVENSON: Is it possible to be fitter and healthier in our 50s, 60s, 70s, and beyond than we were in our 20s, than most people in our society are in their 20s right now? Well, our special guest today is not only delivering the how to, but she is a walking Talking representation of what's possible on today's episode. 

We're going to be covering five things that she's doing to be fitter and healthier in her 60s than most people in their 20s. These five things that most people in their 60s simply are not doing. And I'm going to tell you it's not a matter of capability. It's a matter of knowledge of knowing what to do and making it a strategic Intelligent part Of our culture, that's the key. And so getting these insights from somebody who is living and breathing it walking and talking representation is incredibly powerful. And I had such a good time doing this interview and I think that you're absolutely going to love it. It's just again filled with powerful insights about things that we need to know because we don't want to just extend our lifespan. We want to live healthfully. We want to ensure that we are continuing to live life on our terms. And again, I'm very, very excited to share this with you today. Now, our special guest is truly about that life when it comes to fitness. And actually after the show, she shared some insights with me about her nutrition revolving around her workouts, like what she's utilizing for her pre Perry and post workout nutrition.

Now, if you're wondering. What we're utilizing post workout, what I'm utilizing post workout. What I've been doing for years because that muscle protein synthesis, because those muscle cells being so hungry, little internal hungry, hungry hippos to gobble up these nutrients, to rebuild our muscle, to come back even better. We need to provide ourselves with high quality protein. Quality protein. Now there are several types of protein supplements available on the market today from plant source to animal source. But the vast majority of peer reviewed clinical evidence supporting the benefits of utilizing a protein supplement post workout are done on whey protein. But here's the key, the quality, the quality absolutely matters. 

A randomized double blind study published in the Journal of Nutrition found that overweight test subjects who instructed to consume whey protein daily for 23 weeks lost more body fat mass, had a greater loss in their waist circumference and a greater reduction of circulating ghrelin levels which is our major hunger hormone compared to test subjects taking daily soy protein or an isogenic carbohydrate drink. It was really interesting about the studies that the test subjects were not instructed to make any other dietary or lifestyle changes. Just adding in this high quality whey protein led to these results.

And the grass fed whey protein that I've been utilizing for years is from. The folks at onnit, go to onnit.com/model. That's O N N I T. com/model. And you're going to get 10% off their incredible grass fed whey protein. And as a matter of fact, they're going to hook you up with 10 %off store wide, which also includes their industry leading fitness equipment as well. They've been the pioneers in functional fitness equipment, things like steel clubs, steel maces, their primal kettlebells, their hydrocore bags and so much more. So definitely check them out. And by the way, if you are looking for a plant based protein, Onnit got your back there because they're also leading the industry in that too. They've got the science to back it up. They're not utilizing, again in this study, they put up whey protein versus the soy protein. Yeah. All right. Now there are some benefits seen there with the soy protein as well, but the very best plant based protein is what you're going to find at Onnit. So if that's what you're looking for, they've got your back on that as well. And again, get 10 % off storewide, go to onnit.com/model. And now let's get to the Apple podcast review of the week.

ITUNES REVIEW: Another five star review titled "Dr. Burkhardt" by Gietzbaum. I just listened to your episode with Dr. Burkhart in it covering toxicology and products. I'm a long time listener of the Model Health Show and it is great all the research and information you share. I was not brought up with good health and nutrition advice and I look forward to every morning when I listen to you getting ready for my day. I have a lot of past episodes that I'm catching up on. Thank you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: No, thank you. Thank you so much for being a part of this mission and making me a part of your life. I truly do appreciate that. And I do not take that lightly So thank you so much for sharing your time and your heart and listen. If you've yet to do so, please pop over to Apple podcast and leave a review for the model health show. I truly do appreciate that and now let's get to our special guest and topic of the day. JJ Virgin is a triple board certified nutrition expert and fitness hall of famer. She's the author of multiple New York times bestselling books, and she's been featured everywhere from PBS to Dr. Oz to Rachel Ray to access Hollywood to the today's show list goes on and on. She truly is an icon in fitness. And on this episode, we're going to be hearing her very best strategies to have such incredible health and longevity. Let's dive into this conversation with the one and only J. J. Virgin.

All right. It's very rare that we have a true fitness icon, like the definition of the word you need to, you probably, you already have awards.

JJ VIRGIN: I have one award.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Which is?

JJ VIRGIN: The fitness hall of famer.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Hall of fame. All right. 

JJ VIRGIN: There you go.

SHAWN STEVENSON: To have J. J.

JJ VIRGIN: Now I should have the arm wrestling award too.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Really? I didn't even know that, of course you've got the guns on you, but I didn't know that you can use them like to dismember a man.

JJ VIRGIN: I did Oktoberfest in Sacramento and I won the arm wrestling contest. And Mike Michalowicz from Profit First, we tied.

SHAWN STEVENSON: See you think you know a girl.

JJ VIRGIN: I know. Then I throw that out there.

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's amazing. That's amazing. Well, today I want to talk about. Five things, and we've talked about this a little bit, but we're really going to lay these things out. Five things that you're doing to be fit in your 60s that most people just simply aren't doing. And I think it has a lot to do with what they just don't know. Number one and of course the ideas about what aging is supposed to look like and I've talked about this with you I've talked about this with our friends. You know just talking good behind your back like with Cynthia for example and just like You really do inspire us and you give us like a road map.

JJ VIRGIN: I might have kicked Cynthia's butt a little bit on the last time I saw her.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Good.

JJ VIRGIN: Just a tad. Sometimes she needs that.

SHAWN STEVENSON: You know, you got to behave.

JJ VIRGIN: But there is, to your point, there's this whole idea as we age that we're going to slow down, that things will get harder, and it's like, what if that wasn't the case? What if it didn't have to be that way?

SHAWN STEVENSON: You know, I had this wonderful conversation with Ellen Langer, all right, Dr. Ellen Langer. She's a, she works in the psychology department at Harvard, first woman to receive tenure in the psychology department at Harvard. She's been running experiments on mindfulness.

JJ VIRGIN: Wow.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And, you know, what happens is we start to use kind of this cultural construct of what aging looks like to affirm things, right? So for example, if we get an injury when we're in our twenties, you know, doing some active thing, we'll just chalk it up to like, I just, you know, got injured and I'm just going to do stuff to get better. But if it happens when you're in your forties, it's just like, Oh, I'm getting older. Or if it happens in your fifties, you know what I mean? It's like, Instead of focusing on what things I'm going to do to get well, we start to tell ourselves a story and ourselves are listening, right? And so, we have such an ability to change this narrative and it starts with us doing stuff with our body. If we do have this use it or lose it paradigm with our bodies, and so I want to talk about these five things. Number one, surprisingly, which is kids do it all the time, just running around and jumping. Let's talk about that one.

JJ VIRGIN: I know, and they have fun doing it. Yeah. So, as I was really looking at, what would be the perfect exercise prescription for someone 40 plus? Because when you look at what's starting to happen, 30s, 40s, you hear about losing muscle mass, but that is not the real issue when you look at it. I mean, it's really the quality of the muscle, so it's much more, you're losing strength and you're losing power.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah.

JJ VIRGIN: That's the scary one. And that's the one when you think about it, like, you'll, I'll give my dog example. So I have two little dogs. I have a two year old dog and a 17 year old dog, both Chihuahua mixes. My now 17 year old is slow. She shuffles my, you know, of course, my two year old's running around like a crazy little dog. And you just watch people as they get older, they start to shuffle. They don't pick their, they just don't move fast. And it's actually how fast you can go up a flight of stairs is a great predictor of all cause mortality. And it is use it or lose it. So a cool place to start with that is to do a jump test. This is when you can do at home. It's super easy. You can, I'll give you the link so you can put it in the show notes. All you do is you take a pencil and you jump as high as you can and mark the wall. And then you just reach your hand up and mark the wall and you take the difference and then you normalize it to your age and sex and it will show you.

And then you actually train for it, right? Because if you think about it, we're not doing fast, powerful movements. And even when we do start to go into a lot of the stuff they tell us to do as we age, walk, do yoga, do Pilates. And these are important. We want the balance, but we also need the speed, the power, the agility, which means we've got to train for it. And I think I might've told you last time I was here, Tim and I decided we were going to start taking HIT classes. And I have to go take a class and have someone else do something with me to first start it. Otherwise I get in a rut and I think we all do, and we'll just keep doing the same thing we've always done.

And if you're doing that as you age, you're not progressing, you're actually slowly declining. Like the real definition of exercise is to do more than you're used to so your body has to adapt. And so we go to this HIIT class and the joke was we were like, not just the oldest people in the class. I could have not just given birth to the people in the class, I probably could have, you know, They're probably really are more like my grandkids, right? So the people in the class are early 20s, super fit and we are doing burpees and Turkish get ups and sprinting and I was so ridiculously sore after I walked out of that for a week. And I mean, I work out every day. So this is ridiculous. I've got to challenge my body to do the things I'm not used to doing, of which jumping. And I think we do that in a really controlled setting. Like a great way for someone to start is just to do air squats over a chair. And then at the end of the air squat, jump up just a little bit. Right. Not hard at all.

SHAWN STEVENSON: A little air squat plus a little hop.

JJ VIRGIN: Yep.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I love that. 

JJ VIRGIN: I mean you can do, think of the stuff that we used to do as kids where we just would like bound across the yard. Skip.

SHAWN STEVENSON: These are those inputs again, if you think about it, you know, even there are cultures today, you know, they're still working into their 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and beyond. And sometimes, you know, if you're, for example, trying to cross a creek and you've got to hop on this thing or, you know, just being able to, you know, get from one place to the next, the terrain isn't always going to be this kind of uniform thing that we usually train on here. As we're trying to kind of simulate what life would be like.

JJ VIRGIN: Right. But we actually, we, we end up in trouble because we try to create too protective of an environment. And life is not protected. I, I like to say that we're not training to get better at training, you gotta train to get better at life. Which means you do something in a protected environment to start, like a squat. Cause I'll hear people say, oh I can't squat because I've got bad knees or a bad back. And I think, well what if the reason why you think you shouldn't do it is actually the reason why you should. Cause you're gonna be squatting every day. Every day you get up off the toilet, you get out of a chair, you're squatting. And so let's put it in a controlled environment and then start to do things that will make you a little unstable, or add a little power, or add a little jump because that's what's gonna get you in trouble out in the out in the wild, Right.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Yeah, I love this statement. We hear this thing that practice makes perfect, but it's really practice makes permanent. Kelly Starrett shared that with me and it's just like These are these inputs you're gonna if you're going to live life, just. You're going to need to be able to squat. And so to do it in a controlled environment so you can do it in the real world, that's what it's supposed to be all about. So I love that. So doing some air squats with a little hop. Is there anything else? Any other inputs that we can kind of add in to train for being able to jump a little bit more?

JJ VIRGIN: So when you think about movement patterns, we've got to be able to do, you know, forward back. And so that would be a simple squat, a squat jump. Side to side, so side to side, I look at something as simple as, and this is by the way where you can use a TRX if you're nervous to start with, just to hold on for a little assist but you can just do side bounds or a skater jump. A skater jump is just where you're, you are, you jump to one side, then you jump to the other side, then you jump, it's a skater. Skating. Right? Skate or jump. Even, I mean, jumping jacks. You're moving your leg out to the side, right?

SHAWN STEVENSON: I thought it was a skier jump. A ski jump.

JJ VIRGIN: I call it skater jumps, but that's my term for it.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Okay.

JJ VIRGIN: I know there's other ways. A wood chop, because you also need to rotate. Right? So you can do some rotation with your skater jump. That might be a skier jump. In my book, it's a skater jump, because I haven't skied since I was in my 20s.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Who's jumping on skis anyways? I'm just messing with you.

JJ VIRGIN: I used to jump on skis.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Of course, of course you did.

JJ VIRGIN: So, the wood chopping.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah.

JJ VIRGIN: Throwing a ball. You know, there's a lot of stuff you can do. I think medicine balls are one of the most fantastic things you can do. I think we've talked about this. Don't you have a bunch of those at home or were they kettle bells that you have them? But my kids grew up thinking that balls were heavy. That's just the way they were, but think about what you could do just holding onto a heavy ball and moving it to the side, doing a wood chop.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, I love that. I love that. And, you can even sort of simulate part of a jump just doing a medicine ball slam. When you're raising up and kind of getting up on your toes and then forcing your energy through the ground. Yeah, there's so many cool ways to employ this focus on power, right? And having that, because again, if you don't use it, you lose it. And so having this input and you doing exceptional things in your sixties and giving us the blueprint of what it, what this looks like. So let's move on to the next one. And this is, it's not just walking. Yes. Walking, obviously our genes expect us to walk. But one of the things that you've been putting into play is walking. With a load. Walking with weight. Talk about that.

JJ VIRGIN: Now, I'm trying to find a cuter rucking vest. Because I was like, all right, where are the cute rucking vests for the women? So there was a study that came out that looked at three groups. One was the control group and then one group was told to walk 12, 000 steps a day. One group was told to walk 12, 000 steps a day, but three times a week at intensity for 30 minutes. That was it, that group. Both, both of those groups had improvement in their LDL C, but that was it. The group with the intensity added, same amount of steps, and then you would argue probably a little less time, right? They actually had better body composition, better HDL, better waist circumference, better blood sugar, just by adding a little bit of intensity. So you look at it and go, 12, 000 steps, easy enough to track, but add in that intensity.

And I live in Florida. So I'm like, well, what am I going to do? Right? I mean, there's no hills here unless I go find a bridge. So the easiest thing was to add in a rucking vest. And the cool thing was a rucking vest. . And there's a couple really interesting things about rucking vests. First of all, You can progress with it, so you can start with 5 pounds and go to 10 pounds and go up from there. But the other interesting thing, so think about it, if someone is losing weight, they will have a metabolic adaptation. Because some of their, you know, if you look at your metabolism, some of your metabolism is based on how much you weigh. That's why we always want to have more muscle, because then we're going to have a better basal metabolic rate. But still, you're going to lose some of that weight, so your daily caloric needs are going to go down a little bit. But what if you just wore a rucking vest to compensate? Right? At least some of the time.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. There's so many ways to go about that. Of course, you can get a fancy pants, rucking vest or grab yourself a backpack and, you know, get it nice and snug and put a, maybe a weight plate in there.

JJ VIRGIN: Just throw some water bottles back there. I mean, there's a lot of different ways to do this. That's what I've been looking at because I was, I wanted a travel rucking where there is a water bladder? And I go, why am I making this hard? I can actually just have a backpack and throw water bottles in the back of it. Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And if you think about this longevity piece, this reminds me of my mother in law who, you know, being from Kenya, she shared with me, for example, you know, people be working with their, with their child, you know, basically strapped to them. And you know, you think about, we hear this concept of being a hunter gatherer, right? So both of these inputs, and we be doing this into advanced age, are carrying things, right? And this is kind of a constant part of the day, you're carrying things. How often are we doing that today? Right? So giving that, that input, that epigenetic input, add a little bit of a load from time to time at least and you're gonna get more metabolic bang for the buck too.

JJ VIRGIN: And to your point, like, look at opportunities to carry things. I noticed at the gym I was always trying to get my weight bench closest to the dumbbells that I was gonna lift and then I went, What am I doing? I actually need to be far away from those dumbbells, so I have to far more carry those dumbbells over to where I'm going to be. When I used to work out at a gym in L. A. and I always used to laugh because there was a staircase and an elevator to the gym floor and then to the cardio floor. People would take the elevator to the cardio floor. I mean, I kid you not.

SHAWN STEVENSON: All right. So we are covering the five things that you're doing to be fit in your 60s that most people simply aren't doing. The fitness icon, JJ Virgin is here sharing these insights. So what is the next one?

JJ VIRGIN: And one thing to point out is a lot of, some of the things that I'm talking about, I really just started to focus on, but not this next one. So like really introducing the power. I started to think about that last year. I'll be honest. I just wasn't focused on it. And then I went, uh oh, I'm losing this. However, I've always lifted heavy.

SHAWN STEVENSON: So that's number three.

JJ VIRGIN: I started lifting heavy when I was in high school. I worked out with the football team in high school because we didn't have gyms back then. You know, girls did jazzercise and had little pink weights because everyone was afraid of getting big. And so, but the interesting thing is, I've really been focusing now on not just maintaining what I have, but increasing muscle. And so I've been messing around with a lot of different things to do that. And I think what's important in lifting heavy is it's what's heavy for you. Because that's a big question I always get asked, How much should I lift? I'm like, How much can you lift in good form? If you are just hearing this, the very first thing that you do is you teach your muscles and nerves to talk to each other in good form. So I believe that we should be focused on multi joint compound movements that mimic activities of daily living because that's going to make us better at life.

So, again, if I had to pick only one thing, it would be a squat. Because it's so classically what we have to do all throughout the day. But I look at a squat, a pull up, a push up, an overhead press. I focus on these big movements. I don't really focus on core. I'll throw it in every once in a while during a rest break, but to me, if you're doing those exercises correctly, you're really using your core. And the reason I like to focus on those is not only do they transfer over to everyday life, but they're very metabolically costly. You're using a lot to do them. They'll also always limit you by your weakest area, which is what you want anyway. That's where you're going to get hurt. Right? You know, you go do a bunch of leg extensions at the gym, which, unless you're in the marching band, I don't know how useful that is for you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Doing video game kicking.

JJ VIRGIN: It's like, what, what am I going to do in life with this? But, you know, you do that, but what about your glutes? You know, what about your erector spinae? So let's do things that are multi joint, that are functional, and then you're going to do the heaviest weight you can in good form. But there's a wide rep range that you can do. So someone who is concerned about getting injured could go lighter and longer. They could do, you know, two or three sets of 30 repetitions. As long as when they get towards the end, they're getting to a point where they feel like maybe they only have one or two left in the tank. And in general, I find that what people think is left in the tank isn't close to, like, they're not pushing it hard enough, you know, get to that point where you're just about to sacrifice form and stop.

SHAWN STEVENSON: So this is kind of like a happy accident. Like I'm really, it's hitting me today that you were such an early adopter of lifting heavy weights, you know, just kind of by the nature of the environment that you were in, right? And so you see, literally when we see you, we see the outcome of that. And having that input early on, but even with that, just like you just said, you know, you're, you shifted focus to more power generation, but because you were doing that, you were already doing another power generating movement through lifting heavyweights and adding in, of course, some different inputs with the agility and jumping and bounding and things like that. But you were getting most of the bang for the buck, like lifting heavyweights addresses check so many boxes.

JJ VIRGIN: Right, right. And it is, I'm not quite sure how it even happened that I started lifting weights with that high school football team. It's such a bizarre thing to think about now, but at the time I was in gymnastics and point ballet, which is ridiculous for a six foot tall wrong sports, right? They kept trying to get me into basketball and I kept going over to those, but I really liked strength sports. They're where I always felt most comfortable. So I'm fortunate with that. And a lot of what, when you think about resistance training, there's a concept called high velocity resistance training.

And I think once you have your foundation in place, which is somewhere in the, I've been doing this for eight to 16 weeks to really get that foundation. You don't want to rush it because you want to make sure your connective tissue is ready. Like when you're first starting resistance training, you get your muscles and nerves to talk to each other and you get your connective tissue to respond. And once you're at that point, now you can start pushing things faster and harder. and doing shorter sets where you're going to pull more strength in because as you know, it's, you'll get, you'll get your muscles to grow and you'll get some strength and you'll get some power doing whatever you're doing.

But if you really want to focus on them, it's a little bit different. Like you really want to focus on moving fast, especially in the concentric or shortening phase. And the heavier your go is going to pull in more strength, right? The hard, short sets, like, you know, five repetitions, three repetitions versus doing a set of 30.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Now for you, what do you think is, and again, we'll talk about somebody who is, you know, they're semi consistent working out and they're looking at, you know, maybe adding a little bit of muscle and or, you know, maintenance. How many, How many times should they be training? For example, you mentioned, you know, pull, a press, a squat. How many times should they be training legs, for example, each week?

JJ VIRGIN: So let's take someone because there are the newbie gains. So whoever's first starting, you're in so much luck. Cause you're going to look at me, it's like a hero, you know, anyone, when I work with someone and they're new, I know that it's going to seem like I'm the smartest person on the planet for about four months. And then you start to level off some, but you will have those newbie gains. It's the person who's always been working out that now goes, all right, I got to get out of this rut. The things that you'll want to look at there, number one, I always like to know where I'm starting. So I think that's a good time to go, okay, what is, what can I do in a pushup?

How many pushups could I do? How many pull ups can I do? Right? And maybe that you can't do one pull up to start, you need a little assist, doesn't matter. Then go into a flexed arm hang. How many of those can you do? How many squats can you do? How much weight can you use? So you kind of get a baseline of where you're at. And then, um, I like to rotate things in. So I'll get, I'll do one thing for about eight weeks where I'm really focused, but within that I might vary up the reps and sets a little bit. So let's say that I'm doing, focusing really on squats. Well, one day that week I might just do squat jumps and I might do squat jumps onto, you know, a 12 or 16 inch platform and I'm not jumping back down by the way, I'm focusing just on the jump up.

If I'm doing push ups, then I might do push ups with a little pop at the end, right? Not the whole jack o lantern clap, but a little pop. And then pull ups, I just, if I can only do, right now I'm at six, four sets of six, so then I might just, Go and do one or two extras and then one or two more extras. You just start pushing it a little bit more to see where you can get because once you've got that foundation down, the way you're going to improve is you're going to either add exercises, add sets, add reps, add speed, add weight. So something's gotta, gotta go harder. And then I think one day a week, it's fun. And this naturally happens for me because I travel, is I'll throw in more speed and power work that's not as heavy.

So I might do kettlebell swings or a medicine ball throw up in the air, wood chops, burpees, jumping jacks. All that kind of stuff and I can pretty much, I mean I can, I could take someone into the gym in 30 minutes and wipe the floor with them doing that kind of stuff. It's hard because especially if you do more of a four minutes of really all out and walk around for three and you've not going to do that for long.

SHAWN STEVENSON: So basically we're looking at one day of focus training for certain body parts and then another day where you're training your body parts, but training them differently.

JJ VIRGIN: Well, what I would say is this, it's really going to depend on what your goals are. That's why you've got to know when you're coming in, go, all right, what is my most important thing? Is it simply building muscle? And if so, you know, we want to have great quality muscles at building muscle. Is it getting more strength? Some people don't want to really build muscle, but they'd like to have more strength. And you can actually do that without getting as much muscle because muscle is going to be actually the longer sets with more volume, or maybe they want to build power. I think whichever one you want to focus on, you still need all of them. So let's say that you are, I think, ideally, especially for women, if we can train each body part three times a week, it's going to be better. Within that, you've got to listen to your body, because if you go and do what I did where I just maxed out my quads, then take a little break, go through it, do it light.

I always think we're better off doing things light than not doing anything. Like I'm not not into just rest. Do something else. Do some restorative yoga. Do some walking. But let's say that you want to, you want to build muscle and you'd like some power and strength. I would say three times a week you want to hit those three body parts. So there's upper body pushing. Those would be things like push ups, overhead presses, dips. I like compound multi joint exercises. When we can do things where you have to incorporate balance, awesome, because in life we're not bolted to the floor. So even though hypertrophy gains can be the same using a machine or using free weights, it's not going to be the same for your nervous system and balance and all of that.

So whenever we can move to cables or free weights or bodyweight, if it's enough. I think you should do it that way. So that might be a push up, it might be dumbbell presses, that's the same type of thing, working your chest, working your back, your front of your shoulders, your triceps. Then it might be an overhead press. I love those because they actually load the spine. So when we look at something like bone density. Bone density is a lagging indicator of crappy muscle. Just like blood sugar instability is a lagging indicator of poor insulin sensitivity, right? So if you are focusing on having great muscles, likely you'll never have a bone density issue. And if you do have a bone density issue, pushing weights over your head is fantastic because it loads your spine and loads your hips. Just like a walking vest is great for bone density too. So I love overhead presses, plus it's super functional. We have to put stuff and you can do an overhead press standing on a bosu ball as you, you know, as you get better, as you progress.

And dumbbell presses, not a barbell. So any of these things I'm doing, dumbbell presses, not a barbell, because I want to have to balance and stabilize, use my core to be able to do that. I love dips. I always caveat if someone's got a shoulder problem, but I love dips because in life we're pushing ourselves out of things. So dips are very functional. And then for upper body pulling, that would be things like a pull up, which a lat pull down is a good mimic for that. A bent over row is one of my most favorite cause in life. We pick stuff up off the floor and upright rows. And then for, and that's lats and biceps and back of the shoulders and shoulder girdle. And then hip and thigh hinging are things like squats and step ups. I love step ups because we gotta get up the stairs, right? With stuff. You know, you look at it and go, I'm carrying stuff up the stairs. That's a step up. I like lunges and side lunges because there's agility to that. You have to catch yourself.

And I like deadlifts. And I've been playing around a lot with what's called a one legged Romanian deadlift. Like when I first started those, I go, I am so bad at this. This is unbelievable. And I will tell you, going to the gym, because I have a gym at home too, but I purposely made myself do it at the gym where it's embarrassing, because here I am a fitness hall of famer. They don't know it, but they're probably looking at me going, what is with that lame girl over at the corner falling over doing that one legged Romanian deadlift? But you gotta push yourself past to the things that are hard. You do hard things at the gym, you can do hard things in life. So I would say you pick, pick at least two of those exercises, I think three is better for each area. Now, you want to do each area three times a week, but it doesn't mean you have to do three all of them together. I love the whole, I don't like the name of the exercise snacks, but I love the exercise snacks concept where you can do your workouts all day long. I think in a perfect world, you know, we'd get up in the morning, have our, whatever our morning routine is.

Mine's coffee, but coffee meditation, mine's the opposite meditation coffee. And then whatever else you're going to do, but get in a little hit or movement. And then at some point throughout the day you do your push circuit. Then maybe you do your pull circuit. Then the next day you do your hips and thigh circuit. It doesn't matter as long as you're getting it in three days a week with a good warm up overall, then a warm up set. So if I'm going to do squats, maybe holding a 50 pound dumbbell. I do squats holding like a 20 pounder to start. And then I'd go do three hard sets with the sets being whatever the weight is I'm holding.

By the time I get to the end, I feel like if I could do maybe one, two left, take about 90 seconds to two minutes. do it again. So for building, that would be best. For power, just add some speed, especially on the, you want the speed on the concentric. So the concentric is on the push up, that's pushing away from the ground. On the pull up, that's pulling yourself up. On the squat, that's standing up. It's on the shortening phase of the muscle. So on the hard part of it. 

And the other part of it is. One day a week, and you can either do this one day a week, or you could do one week a month, whatever you want to do it. But I think I'm going to give you, cause I like specifics one day a week. Let's say you said this is going to be my hard fast day where I'm going to do three to four sets, six repetitions, heavy as I can go fast as I can go. And it's just, and what's great is you'll get out of the gym faster too. Right. You might need a little longer break in between sets, but if you could do, you know, 10 pounds at 10, you're probably going to be doing more like 15 pounds dumbbells, right? So did that all make sense?

SHAWN STEVENSON: Of course. Yes. And I love the little extra things that you added in like the overhead press and, you know, these are the things people don't think about. You know, a friend of mine, his son is working to get fit right now, you know, getting himself into shape and he's a college athlete, you know, former college athlete. And you know, it's just, he's like trying to get the, get his core together, get the six pack. And he saw a photo of me online. So he's been asking me a lot of questions, you know, he didn't know what I did, I'm assuming. And I'm just like, bro, like, cause he's like, I, you know, today I did the hanging leg raises.

I did the, you know, stability ball crunch. I did all this stuff. And I'm like, bro, just. You need to focus on deadlifts, overhead presses. If you think about that overhead press, it's like a standing plank, you know, and so many, and you're getting the benefit of working these major muscle groups to the, you know, this complex muscle groups while your abs have to kick on to keep you stable. And I love, I love farmer carries by the way, I love, love that. And I've also, what I've implemented recently is doing uneven weights, right? So in one hand, I might have. You know a 56 pound primal bell on the other hand It's like a 36 pound one and just giving my brain and nervous system the ability to like and I don't do that as the primary set but just a little sprinkle in of input because also life doesn't always hand you well most often doesn't have hand you even forces, right?

So just in a controlled environment, being able to do these things. And again, I just feel more adaptable. I feel more capable and ready than I've ever been, you know, just by. And the thing is just a change in thinking as we get older, because I know we've both went through the phase of like we do our kind of wrote things and, you know, push, pull all the things. But just being able to add these things in, like, you know, Your change of pace changing speed on a certain day is just brilliant. I love it.

JJ VIRGIN: Throwing things around. It is a mindset thing. Though it was so interesting because I didn't check in with this. I had all these goals for 50 And then I was in the 50s. And I just went on autopilot and I didn't think about it and I let the talk out there start to get in, even though I wasn't paying attention to it. If you don't tightly manage your environment, you know what happens. 

And so I kept kind of telling myself, Oh, I'm fine. Cause I go to the gym, you know, and I wasn't pushing myself. And I was like, but this is good for my age, that kind of garbage, right? I don't want to be good for my age. I don't want, like, I had some guy come up to me and goes, wow, that's really good for a girl. I'm like, dude, I just lifted more than you. Like I'm twice your age. I lifted more than you. This isn't good for a girl. This was just good. Right? Like, let's get, let's get real here. But it's really that mindset of like, what will it take to be in the best shape of your life? Like, I am literally in the better shape of my life now than I was in my 20s. And I've always worked out. And so I know that it's possible for anybody. I mean, when I was in grad school, we had these 80s and 90 year old master athletes that could have kicked my butt. I mean, they were amazing. And I'd see them down at Gold's Gym, people in their 70s that were incredible.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah.

JJ VIRGIN: And that's what I'm choosing to focus on. You can focus on all of that negativity out there about what's happening and what happens at the age of 40 and how we're losing all that, or you can say, but that's because you're not doing anything. And what is really clear is that if you are doing the things, but you have to be really clear on the things, because we don't have the margin of error that we had in our 20s. That if you're training specifically for the things we will lose if we're not training for them, like balance, like flexibility, like stability, like agility, like power, like strength, we can train for all of those things, and then we don't have to lose any of them. But we better make sure our diet's dialed in too, right?

SHAWN STEVENSON: Got a quick break coming up. We'll be right back.

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SHAWN STEVENSON: So we're covering the five things you're doing to be fit in your sixties and most people aren't doing. We covered jumping slash agility. We covered walking with a weighted implement. We covered lifting heavy weights. What's the next one?

JJ VIRGIN: So the next one has to, of course, be diet. And the important thing here is, you know You can get away with a lot in your teens and twenties because you've got hormones on board that allow your body to make muscle easily. Once you hit, once you hit like 40 plus, we've got a couple things we've got to consider. Number one is this idea of anabolic resistance, which when you really look at anabolic resistance, it doesn't have to happen.

It's not this magic thing that happens in our 30s and 40s. Yes, we're not making muscle from from the hormonal inputs we had in our 20s. Yes, we're relying on protein to be the trigger, but we don't have to have that resistance to it if we are exercising and eating correctly. So we can push past that, which is super cool. So in exercise, I mean, it's amazing the things exercise can do. So exercise can help tremendously here. So can things like synalytics. But anabolic resistance is our resistance to being able to use protein to trigger muscle protein synthesis. And this idea is that we need more as we age, not less. I think that we need to eat protein for a couple different reasons. And the reason I have people eat protein first is I just heard too many times that, that someone didn't get their protein in because they were full. And literally, I would go out, I recently did a talk. in Nashville and then, or no, it was in New Orleans and a bunch of us went out to eat afterwards.

And one of the women was in her early 60s. She was like the poster child for everything I talk about. You know, she was, she was losing muscle mass. She was a little soft and fluffy. She was normal weight, but what you would call a skinny fat, right? Not strong, didn't work out, walked a little bit. That was the extent of it. Probably maybe a little Pilates, but walking, right? I tell them all about eating protein, how much you need, basically 0. 7 to 1 gram per pound of target body weight. That you should eat it first to make sure you get it in, that you need enough protein to trigger the, it's this Dr. Donald Lehman's work to trigger leucine to trigger muscle protein synthesis. You need those essential amino acids to rebuild. If you're trying to lose body fat, you actually need more of it. If you're trying to build muscle, you'll need more. And we sit down at dinner and I watch her have. Bread, appetizer, which was more carbs, salad, which was basically a sundae, you know, it was like the glazed nuts, the, the sweet dressing.

And then she ordered eggplant. So I'm watching this go down, right? And had a glass of wine. Now I ordered this big steak and I'm hacking off a piece of my steak, put it on her plate. And she says, I'm full. And I said, we'll skip out on that eggplant over there, which by the way, has more calories than the lean meat that I just gave you. This eggplant, which is a sponge.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Without the thermogenic benefit.

JJ VIRGIN: Yeah, no thermogenic effect. I mean, what, it's just a carbon fat bomb. You just got eggplant, it soaks up oil. So you just got this big breaded, cheesy, eggy, planty thing. And it's, who likes eggplant? Anyway, anyway.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Well, you know, the emoji means many things.

JJ VIRGIN: Okay, so we'll, we're just going to leave that alone. So, she goes, you're protein shaming me? I said, I absolutely am. And she is now eating protein first because she got it. I go, see you just did it. You filled yourself up. So, I teach people to first identify how much protein they need and what I really like to do is Before we do anything else, we identify how much protein you need. And you're getting that in at least 30 to 40 grams of protein at each meal. I think if you're going plant, you need to hit 40. I like to actually hack it a little bit with giving people essential amino acids too, especially in the morning. But maybe the morning and evening to make sure they're getting what they need.

Then I don't have to worry about it. If, especially if someone's more plant based, I know we got what we needed. And for a week, I just have someone track that. That's all they do. They have to use a food app and track, they're tracking everything, but they're just focusing on the protein. Don't change anything else. Just focus on the protein. Because I know a couple things are going to happen. Number one, they'll actually get full. And not just that they're fully satiated, they're also fully satisfied. So it's a very different type of thing than feeling that bloated full, they're just full. Number two, they have, like you talked about, the thermic effect of food. So now they've got a bigger caloric expenditure. And we know what food is somewhere in the 15 to 30 % of your overall calories a day are going to be the thermic effect of food. So, protein is really the only one that drives that. And so, you're going to get a better thermic effect of your food. It's going to help you detox, it's going to help you make better food choices, and I know you got it in because you ate it first.

And if that's all you did, likely you're going to end up eating less, you'll have a better thermic effect, you'll probably drop a little bit of weight just doing that, but the weight you'll drop won't be muscle. And that's the other important thing, is that you've got to make sure that you're holding onto muscle and losing fat. Which is why I don't think anyone, in my perfect world, you would never restrict calories without exercise, optimal protein, and body composition tracking.

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's the formula.

JJ VIRGIN: Right? Because then you'd actually know what's going on.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, and there's this old sentiment that says you can't manage what you aren't measuring, right? And you know, so again the big hallmark here and this is number four on the list is protein first.

JJ VIRGIN: Eat protein first.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And I've seen you do this in action in the real world. You know, we went out to eat a couple months back and it was, Cynthia was there as well. Cynthia Garcia, her husband, Zach, my wife was there and it was you and Tim and I saw it. You know, you didn't, everybody's getting like a little salad to start off. You just give me, bring my meat out. And you went right into that steak and you know, you dabbled. You had a little bit of some other stuff, but you, you did in practicality. Like I saw you do that. Now, of course, I'm just like, this is interesting. But..

JJ VIRGIN: She actually does what she says she's gonna do.

SHAWN STEVENSON: You're a real one.

JJ VIRGIN: I really do it out here I do I pretty much like I will always start with protein then I add in some vegetables And then I'll have like if I want something else have a little berries and if I want to go wild I have a little bit of sugar free dark chocolate chips with them.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Mm hmm. Yeah, and By the way, I want to circle back a little bit because you said something earlier that I don't want to gloss over. Which is just impressive AF to me, which is the four Sets of six pull-ups. All right. When you're just like, somebody's like, oh, that's for a girl. That's great. No, no, no. For a human being, for you to do what you're doing is just like, unbelievable but believable. Like, you're actually doing this stuff at such a high level, and it's so cool to see, and I, and I love this, like, you put this and, and I want everybody to really listen to this. You put in your mind to challenge yourself. Like to, I've gotta, I, I was coasting in my fifties. I had to put in my mind to take things to another level, to challenge myself. And how often do we find ourself coasting, right? Doing the bare minimum. And we can do that because for a lot of us, our bare minimum is still going to put us in the top 5% of healthy people, you know, in the United States. But is it, you know, like, is that, that exclusive of a club, you know, like is that really exceptional. To do that we've got to put something psychologically for ourselves to challenge us. Yeah, so You know some people are more internally self motivated and you can just like You figure out a thing, you know, maybe it's a particular lifting goal, you know, but for some people it's like signing up for something, right? So, you know, maybe an arm wrestling competition.

JJ VIRGIN: I've got one coming up. Got another one to Mike McCallow. It's coming up.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Well, you said that too. I thought about the arm wrestling competition But now they got the slap competition.

JJ VIRGIN: What's that?

SHAWN STEVENSON: Have you you not seen this stuff? They get right across just basically looks like arm wrestling table, but they slap the sh*t out of you.

JJ VIRGIN: I don't want to do that. All right.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I don't want you to either. Okay. All right. This is Daniel. It would be mortifying. But it's just like yeah, it's crazy. Yeah

JJ VIRGIN: Wow, but you were so spot on about the challenges it started first with We did deck says then I was like, all right So I wanted, I wanted, I have a specific number I want to be on the decks and I gave Tim, my husband, a goal too. But then I went, what has to happen in order to get there? What has to happen in terms of muscle? And then I started going down the rabbit hole of, okay, now what do I want to do with HIIT and lactate training? Okay. Now what do I want to be able to do with balance? Like I did a jumping crow the other day in yoga and I used to go to yoga and they would get down and do crow.

I'm like, I'm not doing that. Like I'm just, I'll drink some water during this time. You know, I love yoga because you can do your practice. And I always see one girl in the class and she just lies there the whole time. That's her practice, right? I was like, wow. But I look now and go, what are the things that I told myself before I couldn't do, either because, you know, you've got a bad knee or I was, I'm going for all of them. Like all of them and it's kind of fun. Those are the things that get you excited and I say pick one at a time. Like right now one of the things I'm really focused on is how much I had to get my activity level Up to a specific point each day where I'm always looking at how do you in your life continue to raise your floor?

And I think as we age we start to let the floor sink when we really need to raise the floor, right? So if it used to be that you were like, oh, okay This is you know, I'm I'm happy with my weight being 140, and I would say if you haven't done body composition, your weight at 30 years old and your weight at 50 or 60 are not the same weight, you need to know, right? But whatever it is, set a new goal for yourself. And then give yourself this, you know, challenge to get there. And if you're not self motivated, either hire someone and pay them more than you can afford, whether that's 5 or 5, 000 to help you get there, or get a friend to do it with you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I love that. This is, what you just said right there is one of the secrets that shouldn't be a secret, which is you don't have to do this alone. And utilizing our community, utilizing our friendships, our relationships. Even just, you know, the challenges that we go through, we don't have to stress by ourselves, you know. And also, there's something so connective. about doing physical activities with other people, you know, like you really, you know, you learn a lot about people, you know, in these certain contexts. And actually my oldest son, what we've been doing when we've been, you know, meeting up, cause now he's, you know, he's moved out the house, just going to shoot around, play basketball, you know, and just being, you know, it's just, it, it's just, it creates a different format. And we open up more in a different way.

JJ VIRGIN: I, back when I was a trainer, I always thought, gosh, I should go get my therapy license. Because when you're working out with someone, everything comes out. It just, I don't know what it unlocks, but you start to feel comfortable talking about whatever is out there. But I know for Tim and I, we make a point of going, especially in the evenings, we either sauna at night or we go for a walk. And that's where we will just, you know, deconstruct the day out for a weighted rucking walk.

SHAWN STEVENSON: All right, so we've already covered Four of these five things that you're doing to be fit in your 60s and most people simply aren't doing. Number one: Jumping, agility. Number two, walking with a weighted implement. Number three, lifting heavy weights. Number four, eating protein first. And this is where all the real science is pointing. Number five, and you said this to me, before we got going today, is getting off your ace. Just moving more. Talk about that.

JJ VIRGIN: I've alluded to it already and, I, these trackers are so great. Remember when we used to have to use pedometers? You remember the pedometer? Oh my gosh, you don't really, do you? You do?

SHAWN STEVENSON: I mean, you know, it wasn't part of my cultural lingo.

JJ VIRGIN: See, I'm a little older than you. So back, back in the day when we had Sony Walkmans, we also had pedometers to track steps and it was where that original 10, 000 steps came from where there was really no validity to it. However, now there's enough research on this and I think where I started to really look at this was the research started coming out going. If you're working out 30 minutes a day, which is what the CDC says, Oh, 30 minutes, I think it's 30 minutes, five days a week, right? And now they put in two days of weight training. I go, no one knows what that means. We have to spell this stuff out. But let's say you're doing three, 30 minutes, five days a week, and it's probably easy walking. And then maybe you're doing those resistance training sessions. But you're sitting the rest of the time. You basically are, are, you know, X ing it all out.

That you would be better off just making sure you're moving more all throughout the day. Now when you look at your metabolism, you've got your basal metabolic rate. We know that the biggest way you can impact that basal metabolic rate is to put more muscle on because then you burn more calories at rest. So that's lift heavy things, eat protein first, right? Then you have the thermic effect of food. eat protein first, then you have exercise. And to me, the real reason to do exercise is to get that muscle mass on, right? And also within that exercise is to add in some high intensity interval training to improve your VO2 max.

But the big piece of it that can really impact your metabolism, how many calories you're going to be able to use during the day, because we want good flux. We don't want to eat less and exercise less. We want to exercise more and be able to eat a reasonable amount to get the nutrients we need, is to move more. And so, just like with food, I say, start eating your protein and track. I think the best thing that you can do is get an Oura Ring or a Whoop, something that can track your steps, and just pay attention for a week and see how many steps you're actually getting in. I have been trying to find what the average is so far.

What I found, and you were talking earlier, like, I think it's less than that, was 3, steps a day and what I noticed in just tracking myself is I was averaging around 8, 000 steps a day. Now, in the curve where they say you get the most benefits is somewhere in the 8 to 12, 000, but that doesn't mean just do that. More is better. What I wouldn't want someone to do is take out, take away from their exercise to get more steps in. But I think for me, in my hierarchy of needs, I would first start someone with, let's track how much you move. And let's make sure you're getting in 8, 000 is your floor. Once we have 8, 000 is your floor, let's raise it to 10.

And then let's raise it to 12. And if you're wondering how you do it, literally, I now look, now that I'm aware and I'm watching it on my app and it's such a dopamine hit, let's be real, like I totally watch this on my app and I know how much I want to have done earlier in the day. Like I don't want it to be eight o'clock at night and now I need, you know, 5, 000 steps. I'm like, okay, we're, we're heading out. And that's, I'll tell Tim, we got to go out. Like we've got to go out after dinner. But, all you have to really do is once you're aware of it, you will take the stairs more, you'll park farther away, you'll stand before your sit. I have a walking desk and, you know, the elevated desk with a walking pad, so you just start to look for every opportunity that you can because it really all counts.

And you can see how easy it is if you're not paying attention to be in that 3,500 to 4,000 range. I mean, you could have a 1, 000 to 2, 000 calorie swing a day just because you're moving more. Right? And then take it, I, the way I set my office up at home, I set my office upstairs and the kitchen downstairs and I was going to put the coffee machine and, and drinks and everything upstairs too. And then I thought, nope. Not doing that. I'm going to be up and down and up and down and up and down all day long so that I can't, you know, don't, I don't get to bring three drinks at once. Nope. One. Want another one? Go back downstairs.

SHAWN STEVENSON: It's just little things like that. You know, just setting up your environment in a certain way. This reminds me, and man, I just, I love this so much. This is so good, of gaming with my youngest son, right? So, we play this NBA 2K game, and You know, but also he does the same thing that I do because we could just bring all our stuff downstairs. I could bring my, my little element, you know, my, my waters, you know, maybe a snack and just sit it all on the table. But, you know, I'll literally go upstairs and drink water. He'll, he'll, we'll take a break and pause and go upstairs and get water and then come back down. Right. So, because then I think about how I grew up, which is we bring all this stuff to the environment because we're not gonna, we're not leaving this.

JJ VIRGIN: You wonder what happened. Like, I think back to when I grew up, when we had literally like black and white TVs and there was this thing, this remote, non existent. And you actually had to get up just the difference between having to get up to change a channel. Yeah Makes a big difference, right? I mean everything now is designed so we don't have to move.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yep.

JJ VIRGIN: I mean we won't even have to push the gas Pedal on the car anymore. Yeah. So it's frightening. I mean, it's, and I wouldn't have really realized it, but I'm working with someone right now who is morbidly obese, helping them get, and they were an athlete. So we are now in their athlete mind. I've got his, he got his athlete picture out from way back when I'm like, we're there. You know, I'm just like, let's pace you right now. Right. But 2, 500 steps a day was what he was doing. And so we had to go to three. And then 35, and then 4, we're at 5 now. That we've been creeping and now we're, now we added in exercise breaks. I call them doses because of the idea of an exercise snack. He was like, we get to eat and work out? I go, no, no we don't. But you know.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Trigger word.

JJ VIRGIN: Right? So his exercise doses are literally chair squats, but they're not chair squats down to the chair. They're chair squats to the, to the arm because it's too low right now. They are pushups against a table like a high counter. They're like five pound overhead presses. They are little things and everything counts and makes a difference because we are overloading. We're doing more than what he's used to and just continuing to build and build and build on that.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. This is so good. You're so good. I love talking with you.

JJ VIRGIN: You're so good. You're the best interviewer.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Stop it.

JJ VIRGIN: I'm learning from you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Stop it. Keep going.

JJ VIRGIN: It is, it is. Being, I hope people understand this. Being a great interviewer is a massive skill. There are very few out there.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I receive that. Thank you JJ. Well, can you let everybody know where they can follow you, get more information, get your books, all that good stuff?

JJ VIRGIN: So I've been doing a bunch on YouTube now because I'm trying to put out more actual exercise videos, like here's how you can do, you know, a four by four HIIT training, at home with nothing. And that's the big important thing too. There's so much of the stuff you can do at home with minimal equipment. So if you're one of those people that feels like you have to get in shape to go to the gym, It's kind of like I have to get a job to get a job.

You can do all of this stuff at home. Where I like everybody's start is with the protein. So I have the Eat Protein First Challenge that's free and that's at jjvirgin.com/protein first. Easy peasy and then everything's on my website. But again, the YouTube channels where I'm really focusing now on giving as much useful information, including how to start a resistance training program and a resistance training cheat sheet, of things you can do at home to get started.

SHAWN STEVENSON: They're really like these little mini master classes on subjects that you do and they're so helpful. Again, you're the best. Thank you so much for coming to hang out with us. Thank you until we do this again.

JJ VIRGIN: Yes.

SHAWN STEVENSON: The one and only JJ virgin everybody Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this. This is one to share out with your friends and family. Send this to somebody that you care about. Share these incredible insights to support their longevity. And of course you could share this out on social media. It's always a lot of love there. I really do appreciate that. You could share this on Instagram, take a screenshot of the episode and share. You can tag me. I'm at Sean model and tag JJ. All right. Share the love. I'm sure that she will be keeping an eye out for that. And that will really make her day. And again, I just appreciate you so much for tuning in. We've got some epic masterclasses and world class guests coming your way very, very soon.

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