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TMHS 745: The Ultimate Guide to Nutrition – From Your Plate to the World Around You

TMHS 576: Immunometabolism & The Impact Of Alcohol During The Pandemic – With Dr. Tyna Moore

We know that people who have underlying metabolic dysfunction, such as type 2 diabetes or obesity, are at a higher risk of developing complications and poor outcomes from COVID-19. When it comes down to the root of what’s causing our underlying susceptibility to this virus, the topic of immunometabolism cannot be overlooked. The growing field of immunometabolism refers to the complex relationship between the immune system and metabolism. 

Since the immune system and the metabolism are so closely linked, one of the best things we can do to support the function of our immune system is to optimize our metabolism through cultivating healthy habits. For instance, getting quality sleep, strength training, and eating in a way that optimizes blood sugar can support your metabolism, and in turn strengthen your immune system’s defenses. One of the most prominent voices in the space of immunometabolism and COVID-19 is Dr. Tyna Moore. 

Dr. Tyna Moore is a board-certified naturopathic doctor and chiropractic physician. With nearly three decades of experience practicing medicine, Dr. Moore is passionate about teaching folks how to build resilient bodies and take responsibility for their health. This episode contains powerful insights on COVID-19 susceptibility, taking charge of your wellness, and why basic lifestyle changes can have the biggest impact on your overall health. I hope you enjoy this interview with the one and only, Tyna Moore! 

In this episode you’ll discover:

  • What percentage of the average American’s diet is ultra-processed foods.
  • Dr. Moore’s personal experience with chronic illness and viral infections. 
  • The connection between obesity and COVID-19 susceptibility. 
  • Why taking care of yourself is only your responsibility. 
  • The mindset component of chronic pain. 
  • What inflammaging is. 
  • The connection between the metabolism and the immune system. 
  • How viral infections impact blood sugar. 
  • What viral titers are and why they matter. 
  • Why exercise is a protective factor against COVID-19.
  • How fear impacts the brain. 
  • What happened when Dr. Moore gave up alcohol. 
  • Why you should aim to be harder to kill. 
  • The war on good health, and how to take responsibility for your own health. 
  • How emotional baggage can manifest as poor health. 
  • Why we let our ego get in the way of critical thinking. 
  • What it means to trust your body. 
  • Why true health is a journey, not a destination. 

Items mentioned in this episode include:

Thank you so much for checking out this episode of The Model Health Show. If you haven’t done so already, please take a minute and leave a quick rating and review of the show on Apple Podcast by clicking on the link below. It will help us to keep delivering life-changing information for you every week!


Shawn Stevenson: Welcome to The Model Health Show this is fitness and nutrition expert Shawn Stevenson. And I'm so grateful for you tuning in with me today. On this episode, we're going to be talking about some of the overlooked aspects of human health, of biology, of immunometabolism, in regards to this virus has really integrated itself, the idea of itself into so many facets of our life, and one of the big issues, of course, is that we're not addressing our underlying susceptibility as a society, and using this as an example, all this has transpired as a launching pad, as an example, as a push towards what we need to do to get our citizens healthier.


And so that's the mission. And I know that it's possible for us, as a matter of fact, it's probable once enough of us step up and say, Absolutely, this is what it's really about, it's optimizing human health to get our citizens more resilient, to get our immune systems more robust and capable in a world that has been largely devolving, if we're talking about our health as a society recently in human history, just in the last few decades, we've seen an absolute skyrocket in rates of obesity, in Type 2 diabetes, in heart disease, in liver disease, in cancer, in autoimmune conditions, in mental health issues, the list goes on and on and on and on, things that were once rare just a few generations ago are now common place, and it's not okay, just because they're common does not mean that they are okay, just because this is the norm, does not mean that it's normal, and so pushing towards. And this is one of the terms that's been thrown around during this experience, is that it's the new normal, the new normal. No. Let's not subscribe to that. If poor health is being normalized, I want you to be weird AF, I want you to be the weird one, I want you be the exception to the rule and be somebody who's standing to normalize wellness, to normalize community and support, and empathy and compassion, and good mental health and being able to have sovereignty over one's body and being empowered, ultimately that's what it's all about.


And so, today's episode is about empowerment, it's about education, and we've got one of my favorite people who's really been a guiding light throughout this process here for you today, now, obviously, or maybe not so obvious one of the most important facets of the health of our immune system and just our health overall is making that critical connection cognitively that our immune cells are made from the food that we eat. And I say this overall, because also every cell in our bodies, every organelle within our cells is made from the food that we eat, these are the ingredients that make us up, these are the raw materials that make up our bodies is the food that we eat, the nutrients that we bring in from the external world, it is inherently going to be determined by the raw materials that we give our system, and so to say that this matters, not only does it matter, but is orders of magnitude of greatness on how big this issue is, how important this is for us to address this because right now, here in the United States, over 60% of the average Americans diet is ultra-processed foods, not just processed foods, ultra, ultra-processed foods.


So far distanced from any origin of what a food is, it's ultra-processed, you can't tell where the hell that Ding Dong comes from, you can't tell where those Apple Jacks come from if you were just coming from another planet, and you see some Apple Jacks. You have no idea that it came some form or fashion from a shred of corn somewhere, or a sugar cane, you have no idea, it's so far removed from anything that's normal and natural, and it makes up 60% of the average American's diet. What are we making our immune cells out of, what are we making our brains out of? And that's what we address here, this is what our mission is, is to get our citizens and our families educated and empowered so that we can make very... This is a primary step of making our bodies out of better things, making our immune cells out of better things. Now, one of the key elements, and this is true, I love the word element in this context, that's driving our immune system function and just the function of our sales overall, literally our cells cannot work without this particular nutrient, family of nutrients, because it's behind the sodium potassium pump that drives the function of our mitochondria, these energy power plants of our cells, we can't make energy without the presence of electrolytes and electrolytes at their core, these are minerals that carry an electric charge, this is why they're called electrolytes.


Turning the light on, keeping the lights on. We can't have the lights on if we don't have electrolytes, especially in abundance, because electrolytes are utilized by our immune system to run functions and it can get depleted. This is one of the things that's utilized, it's a common thing to be utilized in hospital settings to get folks electrolytes, but we don't really think about how important is that and how valuable that simple thing is. But we don't look at it in the context of our day-to-day lives, we just look at it in the context of emergencies, and this was also seen with covid-19 as well, because a meta-analysis published in the Annals of clinical biochemistry titled electrolyte imbalances in patients with severe corona virus disease, covid-19 was the title of the study, it analyzed five different studies with almost 1500 patients with covid-19 and found that these two key electrolytes well actually multiple electrolytes, but in particular, were greatly deficient in people with covid-19 patients who were hospitalized, and that are sodium and potassium were significantly lower in patients with severe covid-19, not just getting the infection, but when people had severe outcomes and being hospitalized, they were significantly deficient in sodium and potassium, these key master electrolytes.


In addition to that, the electrolyte magnesium is one of the most powerful influencers of our immune system, but also helping to balance out our endocrine system and our nervous system as well, and our nervous system and endocrine system are in many ways, these are sort of like the control center or the communication center for our immune system, it's like the control tower for our immune system planes that are flying around and getting things where they need to go, or taking care of jobs and the like. Alright, so it's very, very important. Magnesium is responsible for over 650 biochemical processes that we're aware of, so that means that if you're deficient in magnesium is over 650 processes that your body simply cannot do or cannot do efficiently because of this deficiency. Now, in particular, 2016 study reported that magnesium is able to reduce the activity of your fight or flight nervous system or sympathetic nervous system, and to turn on the activity of your parasympathetic, also known as a rest and digest nervous system. Wouldn't this have been helpful during this experience, where according to the CDC, massive meta-analysis over 800 US hospitals, over 540,000 covid-19 patients, analyzed the number one risk factor for death was obesity, the number two risk factor for death was anxiety and fear-related disorders.


Wouldn't nutrients that help to regulate and support the health of our nervous system be helpful at a time like this, but unfortunately, you don't hear stuff like that again, literally, if you're deficient in these nutrients, your nervous system just can't regulate, can't self-regulate well, if at all, and you're just going to habitually live in that fight or flight state, and it's zapping sapping the magnesium and other electrolytes from your system to try, your body is always trying to sort itself out and to normalize. But we don't have to wait around for the rest of the data to come out on all the things that we didn't do that are basic and foundational to human health and wellbeing. So, for free, I want you to head over to that's and get yourself a free shipment of the only electrolyte that I personally use, no crazy added sugars artificial flavors, all this crazy stuff that find its way into conventional electrolyte formulas and it's just not appropriate. We're done with that. Alright, this is the real stuff and it's formulated based off of thousands and thousands of data points, and in addition, they're sourcing higher quality electrolytes as well.


Now go to Again, it's, you get it shipped to your house for free, free sample pack, just pay a little bit in shipping, and they're going to send it right out to you. Definitely take advantage of it. Turn the lights on, you're going to find some really remarkable benefits for a wide variety of things, and I'm going to be highlighting this a bit more because I've been getting all these amazing stories from folks as well, and this is why I rock with them is because it's something I utilize and I've seen the benefits first-hand, electrolytes are super important right now, but where you're sourcing things from is more important than ever. Go to Now, let's get to the Apple Podcast review of the week.


ITUNES REVIEW: Another five-star review titled, “life changing” by Luke T Pearson. “I've been into fitness for years now, but never got the results I've been looking for after discovering this podcast five months ago, I've gone through a couple hundred episodes and it has changed my life, not only did his advice, help cure my chronic joint pain, but helped me lose 50 pounds and really take control of my life in a positive way, Eat Smarter just came in the mail today And I can't wait to start reading. Thanks again, Shawn. Keep doing your thing.”


Shawn Stevenson: Absolutely, you know, I'm not stopping any time soon, and thank you so much for sharing that over on Apple podcast, thank you for sharing your voice, if you have to do so. Please pop over to Apple Podcast and leave a review for the Model Health Show. And on that note, let's get to our special guest and topic of the day, with nearly three decades of experience in medicine, Dr. Tyna Moore is a leading expert in regenerative medicine and resilient health. As a naturopathic physician, she brings a unique perspective to those wishing to build a more robust foundation in their health and well-being. She's also a best-selling author, podcast host, speaker and kettlebell devotee, and she's also a mom. She's a fierce advocate for health, autonomy and personal responsibility, which she helps people to improve through her many platforms. So, let's jump into this conversation with the amazing Dr. Tyna Moore. So first thing I want to ask you about, what has been your experience as a physician, as a researcher over the course of this last... Two years, over the course of this pandemic, what's it been like for you?


Dr. Tyna Moore: It's been wild. I really thought... As a naturopathic physician, I really thought that we had this. I knew when this hit, that it was a new virus, but I also knew it was not some alien strain that came out of nowhere, and I know how coronaviruses work, and I personally have suffered with long haulers for decades, and so I was very familiar with viruses. Most of our patients, if we really dig into their health history with them, we'll find that they have some type of post-viral syndrome that's causing their issues, and so I've been to countless conferences on how to deal with post-viral syndrome, and acutely... We know how to optimize a human being's body so that a virus isn't really... It becomes less hospitable, if you will, and so when this hit, I thought, okay, well, people are going to freak out for a minute, but common sense will reign, we'll be okay, and I really thought my profession would step up and save the day. I thought, this is it, like you were saying earlier, like, this is our chance. Right, like healer, step up. And that did not happen, and it just has been shocking to see the propaganda machine...


It's also interesting as someone who studied extensively marketing and NLP and other things like that, you can hear the words that are coming out of mainstream media's mouth, and you can see the propaganda and hear it, and I just thought at some point, okay, common sense will reign and no, that never happened. So, it's been... As you know, we both were kind of like on the front lines of social media, trying to hold the... Hold the line, at least on common sense. I don't feel like I was trying to put up any battle, but it felt like I was going to war every day, and I feel, I was telling my husband the other day, I feel like those pictures those, before and after of Abraham Lincoln before the war and after the war, like the massive aging that has occurred just from you battle fatigue. So, I feel a little PTSD at this point, I think, and I am holding on to the inherent truth that I know, and I will not budge on it no matter how much it would be easy almost. I think you probably had moments like that where it's like, it would just be easy to give in, but I will not give in to propaganda and lies, no matter how long they persist.


Shawn Stevenson: So... Well, I just want to thank you so much for doing that, like I said this already, but we really do need you and you are human as well, so it's just like being able to fill your own cup and you even sharing that, having some PTSD from it, how could you not especially being somebody who was holding a line and saying things that are inconvenient, but very real and what you've been doing is really just continuing to focus people on the underlying issue here. So, you mentioned that you personally have experienced long-haulers, this seems like this new phenomenon, but resulting from, if you could share a little bit about that, resulting from a viral infection of some sort that you got earlier on in life so talk about that a little bit.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah, when I was 19. So, I was always a super star student, but I was always a punk rock girl, so I would walk into these AP classes or these advanced placement courses in college, and people would look at me like, does she belong here? So, I've always been bucking the system and doing it with style because I could pull the grades, I could... I'm like, you want to go... When people want to have an intelligence sort of battle, I'm just like, Alright, let's... We don't need to do this right now 'cause I know what I know and I'm not a dummy. And I will not succumb to, I cannot... I cannot tolerate injustice. And so, of course, I start college with a bang, and I am mac and cheese-eaterian at the time, and I am a chain smoker, and this was back in the early '90s, very early '90s when drinking too much was a thing, and so I think all of that combined lack of sleep, I was Heroin chic was all the rage in the Pacific Northwest. So, I was really underweight, really skinny, I wouldn't know a deadlift if it hit me in the head.


I hadn't discovered the beauty of strength training yet, and so I got hit really hard with cytomegalovirus, which is common, and most people process readily, however, if you're immunocompromised, it can obliterate you, and I had a great physician at the Student Health Center at Portland State University. I was living downtown. It was great. Life was great. And she said, you have this crazy. Your titers are through the roof. We don't know what to do. Where did this come from? We have to work you up for HIV, and at the time, this was the early '90s HIV test took weeks to come back, so I was terrified. I was like, am I dying? Is this... 'cause I had a friend who was 19 who had HIV out of nowhere, and I thought, okay, this is not good. Well, it turns out it wasn't that we couldn't figure out what it was, and it ruined my life, I had to leave school, I had to move back in with my parents, I had to essentially just drop down on credits, I didn't drop out completely, and I spent the next several years, really struggling, and as you know, cytomegalovirus attacks the brain.


So I was incorrectly diagnosed as manic-depressive, I was just kind of put through the wringer with antidepressants and antipsychotic medications, it was terrible, to be honest, and years later, I had the great honor of meeting my mentor, Dr. Rick Marinelli, who was a naturopathic physician and he said, you're not crazy, you have a virus attacking your brain, and helped me from a naturopathic standpoint, and I had never been to a naturopathic physician I did not know what they did, I knew nothing about them, I couldn't believe this existed, this kind of medicine was real, and so of course, I started as his receptionist and I ended up basically as his medical assistant, and I spent 20 years with him, and he was a Jedi, that guy, he unfortunately passed away from cancer, but had a great run with him, learned a lot, and that's what drove me into naturopathic school, I was in chiropractic college, I'm a chiropractor as well. So, I really appreciate the body's ability to heal inherently from a bio-mechanical standpoint, a nervous standpoint, as well as from just... In naturopathic medicine, we call it The Vis, it's the healing power of nature.


And in chiropractic’s, it's the N-aid it's the inherent body's ability to heal, so together it's a superpower. And I went into naturopathic school looking for answers, and then I got sick again while I was there, 'cause I was doing two programs concurrently, and I got hit with an influenza that turned into a meningitis, and that took me out and down... And that was a mess for a hot minute, but the point is, both times I was underweight, I was malnourished, I was completely stressed out of my mind, I was completely disrespecting my sleep, I had no muscle mass on me, so I was skinny fat both times, and not in a good place. And so, it makes sense to me why I was hit so hard.


Shawn Stevenson: This is bananas. Again, I see this story consistently with folks who are really exceptional in this area of going through their own stuff, trying to figure out their own health issues, and you finding some things, it's just like, how do other people not know about this? And also dealing with the virus, that particular virus is very tricky, like it could hide out in your nervous system, and so having and even knowing that there are solutions available, you're probably getting told that there's... You're crazy there's nothing you could do about this.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Go home and rest.


Shawn Stevenson: And different flavors of that. And here's this, you're just depressed, just take this medication, and being able to look at the body as a complete... Because one of the things we talk about now, we can talk about today, we can get into it, but just how mental health, "mental health issues" can be rooted in disruption with our gut integrity and the like, but we just like... No, this is a mental health issue is as if it doesn't exist in a body that's connected, you know your gut is connected to your brain, but I wanted to ask you about this because you just mentioned, and this is another similarity when I was in college and dealing with my own health issues, arthritic spinal condition.


I dropped down in credits, but I didn't drop out, I just, I'll hung hang on with three credits, I was still a college student, and you know, I think it's just, again, we kept trucking forward and we knew the trajectory, like I'm going to do this, I'm going to be successful.


But man, you were hit with a lot of stuff, and so by you doing the two programs simultaneously, influenza almost took you out, stress. Most people have no idea about this is one of the things that I was talking about the very beginning of this, is that... Guess what about 650,000 people according to the WHO die from the flu every year. Is as if, again, that's just from the respiratory effects, that's not organ failure, that's not all the other things that can be comorbidities with flu, but nobody ever said sh*t about it, you can get very sick from a myriad of viruses, but there's a difference. What makes you susceptible? So, let's talk about that because that's not getting talked about right now, our greatest susceptibilities.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Which is why I think there's a bigger agenda ultimately, which is where it clearly is not about health at this point, it's something more sinister, I don't know what... But that's where that was never spoken up from the beginning, we had... I was... The minute this hit... Let's just put it this way, I'm a little addicted to cortisol. So, when stress gets high, I shine for a minute, I'm like, Yeah, I get juiced up by it. And so when it was coming to our shores and it had hit Kirkland and Italy was happening, I immediately dove in and I found studies that were already coming out of China and documentation coming out of China, heart disease, smokers or... Really, I would say that sort of triad of that smoker, cardiovascular, male kind of that, those were the ones that were having a really hard time, obesity, diabetes. And like you said, I was like, We're f*cked. And I made a video, and it went viral, and I had, I woke up with 30,000 followers. And in that video, I said, this virus hasn't seen North America yet. I didn't mean North America hasn't seen the virus, I meant this virus hasn't seen North America yet, 'cause this is going to be like a fire.


And if you map, the obesity map, and this is not a dog against obesity, this is in the attempt to empower people with knowledge to hopefully help them do something, there's something they can do, what can they do, what tools do we have that people can implement and empower themselves, 'cause if you teach people to do better, they will do better, if you empower them to be better, they'll be better, and we can't talk about that because you get hit with the fat-shaming and the other things, but if you look at the map of covid deaths over time and... You can superimpose it over the top of the obesity map. The same spots light up. For the most part, the same spots light up, and I know there's population density and there's different issues, but where the country is struggling the most with obesity, they also were having terrible outcomes with the virus, and this is something that I think, So I just immediately took to Instagram and I said, start walking, cut refined sugar, basic stuff that anyone could do, and the pushback on that was enormous, and I thought I'm giving you guys countless free tools here that anyone could do.


I understand some people live in the inner city and walking around isn't as nice. I understand that I was doing it, I was filming from the country where I live, I live out in the rural area in the country, but I have spent many years living in San Francisco in downtown Portland. I'm a city girl, and you can still take care of yourself, you... We could have had an impact on humanity to I think, the count of hundreds of thousands of lives saved if we had just been able to speak of some basic strategies, we knew the nutrients that help the body fight, not only just fight off getting a viral infection it's not about prevention, treatment or cure, we were muzzled, by the way, which I'll come back to, we were muzzled specifically in organist physicians by the Department of Justice and the FTC from day one, but there are nutrients we don't... As naturopathic physicians, we don't look at it as prevention, treatment, or cure of a condition, we look at it as optimizing a person who is struggling with said condition, said whatever. So, if you're an asthmatic, for instance, it's not what medication will help ameliorate the asthma symptoms, it's why is this person's body hyper-reacting and it's manifesting in the airway system, right.


Like root cause. So, and you know this, and your audience knows this, so it's a matter of how do we keep viral replication and viral load and titers low? How do we help the immune system first pass? The first line of the immune system works better so the virus doesn't sneak past it and come in. How do we decrease ACE2 receptors so that the virus doesn't take as good of a hold in the body? Those are the things I'm interested in, and that's what I was trying to speak on, which I'm still beating the drum, boringly, it's not sexy, it's like people want the quick hear and I'm like, "Same, story."


Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.


Dr. Tyna Moore: And so that's the part where I can't believe it was never spoken of, of course, and you can't either and...


Shawn Stevenson: Okay.


Dr. Tyna Moore: And that was never popularized, it was never mentioned. And I think... What was it last week? The beloved Fauci came out and basically said, "Every man for himself. Find your best... "


Shawn Stevenson: You got to learn to live with this, take your own calculated risk.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yes, yes.


Shawn Stevenson: Same stuff that we were saying the very beginning but that's the thing, is not one of my hypotheses has born out to be untrue...


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah.


Shawn Stevenson: Because you could see it all coming, but I think that the thing that's not getting addressed here is... Is again, you're just like, why are we not talking about this? It's because we never talked about it. We weren't talking about it prior, we were just watching the ship just sinking. We were just watching our health as a society absolutely just plummeting already. So, I think, again, one of my things that I was struggling with the beginning is just like, this was the term that popped in my mind, I was just like... I felt like... I thought we were better than this, I thought we were better than this, and that was just my disillusion because I'm better than this and I've been working my *ss off to empower other people to be better than this, but as a society, no, no, no, we're not, we're not. And as a matter of fact, we're living in a very archaic twisted version of what science and health looks like and medicine looks like.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah, yeah, that has been really heartbreaking because I wanted to be... When I was a little kid, I was really sick, and I remember being five years old and held down on a table while they were like siphoning snot out of my head, and my mom's holding me and the doctors hold me, and the nurses are holding me, and I remember thinking clearly, there has to be a better way to do this, this is not it. And so, I set out to become a doctor from that point forward and it's heartbreaking to me to see how they've bastardized science and medicine, and how... Doctors had already sort of fallen from grace in my eyes as a whole by the time this pandemic was even close to... I had left my practice in 2018, I closed up shop 'cause I was so sick of it all, so I found other ways to make money and have fun but it was heartbreaking because I'd wanted to be a physician my whole life, and then to see it just melt into this mess and now people are like, "Well, you're a doctor, so I certainly won't believe you." It's to my... It's a fault now instead of a like, "Well, let's talk to the expert."


Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.


Dr. Tyna Moore: And to see good names and good doctors... And think about the cumulative years of education that's just been dismissed and quieted. That's the part that gets me and the most important take home from this though, is the onus of responsibility is ultimately still on the individual because you pulled yourself out of a hole and that took tremendous work and effort. It still takes, I'm sure, tremendous work and effort. I packed on a good 20 pounds and rebuilt my health; I've done it several times over. That takes consistent daily effort, and it's not about looking hot, it's about aging well, it's about being a good mother, it's about being... I can't be a good physician and I can't do my job well if I'm not at my... On top of my game, and so for me, citizenship, good old fashioned... I don't know if that's a Midwest thing, but... Where did citizenship go? Where did... For the greater good, to me, means taking excellent care of yourself so that you can be an excellent family member. As a mother, I can be an excellent mother, I can be an excellent daughter to my parents, but more than that, am I helpful in society because I'm healthy, and I don't think that people realize the load they put on their family members when they live in chronic illness, and I think living in chronic illness...


And this is... I'm going to take a lot of heat for this but I think it's a choice. And I treated people who were in chronic pain, that's what I did throughout my entire practice for over a decade, was treat people who were in pain and people who are in chronic pain like myself, there is a reason we get there, there is a mindset that gets us there, and then no, it's not our fault always, but choosing to stay there is often our choice, and so fighting that every day, fighting... I have crippling back pain if I let it get there. I have to take measures every single day to not let it get there, and that is my choice, and when I don't do it, it impacts my marriage, it impacts my business, it impacts my friendships, it impacts me, I self-isolate, I go into the pit of despair, of pain, and there's gut issues, there's all those things, we all struggle. I could sit there and say, "Oh well, it was this virus that happened to me, it's not my fault, that's what started it all, was back when I was 19," but I don't, I choose to fight, and I expect everyone else to do so as well, so we can get the hell out of this mess.


Shawn Stevenson: That... I think that that is the struggle, is expecting other people to do the same thing, and I think we both had to get face-to-face with that, to understand a lot of people, they're just not wired up that way, they don't understand how powerful they are. Thank you for saying the thing again. You don't have to preface anything around here like, "I'm going to get heat for this," because you're not, we got your back. And to say the thing which is, this is a choice. Now, for me, again, I'm going to consult with and work with the very best people in their respective fields, and one of them that comes to mind when you said that is Dr. Bruce Lipton. He's really pushed this term epigenetics into popular culture. If you know about it, it's probably because of him. A cell biologist, brilliant guy, brilliant scientist, and he shared with me when we were talking about this profound shift that's taken place recently, where genes were getting blamed for things, going through this different spectrum of things we are blaming for a problem, you know, it's the genes. He's like, " Shawn, there are no genes for disease. These are all biological programs, blueprints for different versions of how your health can be expressed because even when... " You mentioned asthma earlier. We might think, and I know being a child who had asthma, that, "This is trying to kill me. This Asthma is trying to kill me."


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah.


Shawn Stevenson: Why would my... That's so against everything about evolution and biology, that my body is trying to kill me. In autoimmunity, your body is adjusting a program to actually try to keep me alive. Somehow or another, it thinks it's protecting me. And so, what he shared with me is that, "Shawn, only a fraction of a percent of our health conditions are true genetic defects, most of these issues are developed because of our environment, our internal and external environment and these inputs that are influencing our genetic expression." And so, what I mean by that is, for example, I had an arthritic condition of my spine as... At 20 years old when it was diagnosed, but it took years, of course, for it to be manifest. It was already behind the scenes brewing. But I wasn't born with that, I wasn't... I didn't come out like I've got arthritic condition. I was living life, doing baby stuff, and doing kid stuff and living my life, but the program got turned on. Something got turned on that was adjusting how my body was working, and it's those inputs, and so for you saying the thing that, "Hey, this is a choice." This doesn't have to... We immediately like, "You can't blame when somebody just gets... " Fill in the blank, that's not their fault.


We want to be empowered because of course, not everything is our fault. There are but that's in the tiny, tiny exception and not the rule. The rule is, we are living in epidemics, multi-epidemics of chronic lifestyle created chronic diseases, and we're just now starting to understand how even things we... Would seem just like random are not random at all. As a matter of fact, even that goes against premises of physics. There's no, things just happen, there's always a reaction from an action. There can't be anything that happens without an outcome, and so thank you for bringing that up, and I want to ask you specifically about obesity because this is well-noted CDC, July 1st, 2021. I like to quote them directly, they did a massive meta-analysis, over 800 US hospitals over 540,000 Covid 19 patients, obesity was a number one, number one risk factor for death from Covid, number one, which we knew already coming into it, but let's talk about why. What is it about obesity that makes us so susceptible to viral infections?


Dr. Tyna Moore: That's a great question because I was just thinking, "How can I simplify this down in an Instagram post without inflaming the masses?" And in my head, I think about it, there's a couple of different reasons, but mechanistically, ACE2 receptors are plentiful on adipose cells. Adipose cells are fat cells, right. And the more fat cells you have, the more ACE2 receptors you're going to have. ACE2 receptors are where the virus binds. They are upregulated in response to inflammation, so obesity generally is a pro-inflammatory state. Young folks with more subcutaneous fat, meaning under the skin layer, are going to have less inflammation, and as someone who's ran thousands and thousands of labs on a variety of ages of people, we automatically become more inflamed as we age, it's inflamaging. We are... By the time you and I are 85, we're going to have way more inflammation whether we'd like it or not no matter how good we think we're living our lifestyle, so that is just a natural sequence of events. Humans become more diabetic or more insulin-resistant, or more carb-resistant as they age. And so, we've got that already ticking.


Now, you take a young person, and their homeostasis is working awesome because they're young, and homeostasis is just the body's way of trying to self-regulate like you were mentioning. So take someone who's maybe been carrying extra weight and now it's turning more into visceral fat under the belly layer, that's the dangerous, really pro-inflammatory that I think of that as like a little cytokine factory, that belly that men and women too develop in their middle age, that is a little cytokine factory and so that is super pro-inflammatory. That fat is plentiful in ACE2 receptors so mechanistically, obese people just have a much higher propensity to have a higher viral load or titer. Viral titers matter, and I've said this from day one, Viral titers are key because the more the virus can replicate in your body, the more plentiful it becomes in your body, the more screwed you are generally. The more symptomatic you become, the more systems that are hit. It might actually leave your respiratory system and go rogue throughout the body, generally speaking, you're not going to find a lot of...


If someone's naturally acquired a virus, you're not going to find it in the bloodstream as much. The higher the viral titer though, game on, all bets are off. And the way that this virus likes to sort of bypass and ninja its way through the first line of your immune system, it screws up the signaling system between phase one and phase two of your immune system, so I think of these... Phase one is like the marines, it's sort of just blast and shoot, and then there's the signal, and then there's phase two, which is your Navy Seals. Well, by the time the Navy Seals get the call, the titers are sky high, berserkers goes off, cytokine storm, the more fat cells you have, the more likely you are to have high cytokine levels. So not only does the fat cells themselves in plentitude invite in more virus and get you a higher viral titer, but secondarily, it's really going to drive that cytokine storm, so the fricking fire gets lit, it's like a blitzkrieg, it goes. The third component is, if you are rocking a lot of adipose tissue, the likelihood of your metabolic health is going to be.


And I know you and I both talk about this, is... And really, I think this is the root cause of the whole pandemic, is poor metabolic health. Only 88... What? 88% of Americans are metabolically unhealthy, so 12% aren't. So that's when I knew, I was like, "We're screwed. This is going to be a hot mess, literally, when this hits our shores." But that immunologic, metabolic... As Mike Mutzel says, it's two sides of the same coin, so if your metabolic health is messed up, your immune system is jacked and that's going to let this ninja virus really ninja and it's pretty... It's an interesting... The way this... The behavior of this virus is interesting, the way it works. Anyway, we bypass phase one, we screw up communication, we turn on phase two, cytokine storm ensues. You have a cytokine factory called your fat suit that you're wearing around. So that in my head is the simplest way to explain it to people. So, when they say you're fat shaming, I'm like, "No, I'm trying to help you decrease your cytokine storm, and I'm trying to help your immune... You get your immune system to function more properly and optimally," and ultimately, it's like a vacancy sign when you are obese, right.


And then let's tie in the diabetic piece the virus itself induces, and most viruses do. When you get really sick with something, you go into a bit of a diabetic state, it's just naturally occurring, if you're sick enough to end up in the hospital, I guarantee you your blood sugars will be screwed up because your body is trying to fight something, so it's trying to get as much glucose as it can to call in the troops. So that's a real problem for most Americans who are sitting on the edge of some kind of pre-diabetes or Frank diabetes, by the time they end up in the hospital, it's a mess of blood sugar dysregulation, and that's when all these systems really go haywire. So, there's a couple of mechanisms there but at the end of the day, it's like, "Don't invite so much a virus in in the first place and what... " 'cause once it gets in, a body that is suffering with obesity, it is a sh*t show literally, versus someone who's metabolically healthy, it's like... I didn't feel great when I had it but I knew I was going to get through it, I rocked my fever out, came out of it the other side, took me about 90 days to kind of get through all my symptomology, I expected that, but again, that's normal.


We have really sensationalized this whole long-haul thing. Post-viral syndrome takes a while to come out of, it's not like... All the studies are like, "Well, one month out, these people had neurologic symptoms." I'm like, "Yeah. Anybody who gets really sick is going to have neurologic symptoms one month out from a bad sickness." So that's that whole thing. And again, the sicker you are and the more obesity you have, the more inclined you are tolong Covid symptoms so the... To me, the root cause solution is, Let's reduce the obesity on the body, let's make the fat suit smaller so that there's less likelihood of all of these terrible things happening. I hope that's simple, but... that's...


Shawn Stevenson: No, I mean, you're highlighting, again, the most important point, which is our lack of metabolic health. I love the term, maybe it helps to color things for people, but immunometabolism.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah.


Shawn Stevenson: But there's two legs of that, your immune system itself, your immune cells have their own metabolism so that's one degree of it, and if you're in poor health, their metabolism is sh*tty. But then the other side is how your metabolism, like Mike mentioned, being two sides of the same coin. Your metabolism really controls your immune system in many ways. They're the same and we try to isolate these things like they're separate. If you're in poor metabolic health, your immune system is just trash already. And so, we're predisposed, as you just articulated. So wonderfully, we're predisposing ourselves to poor outcome. We're in a pre-inflamed body, metabolically broken body. Man, it's just like if we get hit with something... Now, here's the thing I want to mention because... So, you said, of course, being in a healthier state, we're going to deal with this better. What tends to happen, and I know you've dealt with this, is that we do the what about-ism. Well, what about my friend who's... They run 40 miles a week and they eat a perfect diet and all these things, and they got hospitalized from Covid or whatever the case might be. That's not to say...


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah.


Shawn Stevenson: That it can't happen. But again, we're missing the most important point. Again, from the CDC, 95% of people who are hospitalized with covid, who died from covid, had an average of four pre-existing chronic diseases and or comorbidities. Alright, this is on the CDC site, 95%, so I'm not talking... Yes, the 5%, yes. Somebody who's called healthy, but what is the definition of healthy. We know that the majority of people who succumbed to this virus, were not just unhealthy but significantly unhealthy. We've got to do something about it. Don't talk sh*t about the 5%. What about the 95%? The smoking gun here, because again, even at 5%, we can get into nuance, but truly the best defense is being a healthy individual, and not a thing has been done towards getting our society like that. As a matter of fact, it's worse.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Oh, it's much worse.


Shawn Stevenson: Prior to this even existing, we had a... The numbers were almost 130 million Americans were diabetic or pre-diabetic, and you were just mentioning how abnormal blood sugar can exacerbate this issue too.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah, and there's a couple of things here. You and I both have covered at length these studies that have come out showing how massively protective exercise is. They didn't look at these people's BMIs, they didn't assess their metabolic health, these people were just either moving or not moving, and those who moved... And we've seen countless study showing those who are actively moving on a regular basis, even moderately so are protected, far more efficacy than what the current solution is offering, so there's... If everybody just started walking, there's one piece. Number two is we had all these studies going way back to really around 2019 when that bad flu hit on obesity and influenza, not terribly different viruses, I'm not suggesting they're the same, I'm not suggesting Covid is just the flu in disguise, that's... I think that's really disrespectful to say in the world of science, but they are similar in their structure and they are similar in how they are spread through aerosols, which again, that was... When they were coming out and saying, "This is droplet," in the beginning, I'm like, "They're lying. We know... " I mean, just pick up a virology textbook, medical textbook from pre-2020 and read about coronaviruses.


I have them on my library shelf, these are aerosolized, so I knew there was going to be no hiding from it, this whole hiding everything, that's a whole other story, but we have the studies from 2019 showing that the obese body in humans and in mice spreads far... Has much higher Viral titers, spreads far more virus for significantly longer, like 42% longer than the lean counterpart. The virus that works its way through an obese hose that comes out the other end is far more virulent to the lean body. So, they took mice and they... The cocktail that came out of the mice after the virus had made its way through, came out more virulent. We know who super-spreaders are; super spreaders are bodies that tend to be obese nourished, inflamed, sickly immuno-compromised. So, 20% of spread is... I'm sorry, 80% of spread is due to 20% of the population generally. We now have those studies conclusive for covid, the older obese body, and the longer that body's been obese, the more viron comes out of them for longer and is literally shown in their aerosol, in their sputum. So, this was the part where I'm like, "You guys, we know who's most contagious and also who's most vulnerable and who needs to be protected. We also know that group doesn't respond well to vaccination." So, the vaccine is going to save everybody's story.


I knew it wasn't going to work from the get-go, and I took a lot of heat for that, and I'm like, This isn't my opinion, this is based on literature that we have already, and so there's a lot of things at play here that were so obvious if somebody just... And then they say, "Well, you can't trust Google, it's censored." I can just go past page one, dig a little deeper. If people would just actually take it upon themselves to dig and start having a little discipline to research it more than what the 5:00 o'clock news told them, we would see that this is all right out there in the open, and you and I share info from the CDC and people are dismissive of it. It's like, "No, dude, it's on the CDC's web... " I'm showing this to colleagues, medical colleagues, I'm like, "Do you need stacks of this printed out and highlighted for you? What part of this are you choosing to ignore?" And not a peep about it. And so, I think that's the frustrating part because I'm sure like you, on social media, I've had hundreds of people reach out to me who've lost the thousands of pounds cumulatively just going to bed on time, cutting refined sugars, going for walks, getting out in the sun, just basic sh*t, just basic stuff that humans should do to stay alive. Our dogs go to the vet, and they get the ribs palpate, and the vet says, "Well, I can't really feel a rib, so well, your dog has obesity. They're going to have diabetes, and this is what diabetes is going to cause, they're going to die."


But we don't do that with humans. We don't have those conversations, those hard conversations, because I think half the doctors have fatty liver themselves and aren't in great shape, so it's like we've got this huge mess and I'm not judging anybody, I'm not... I just... There's this obvious mess in front of me and I can't... There's a few of us trying to highlight it, and it's like, "Which part of this are you all not seeing, where do we... Where is the commonsense mechanism here? Where do we address this?" Imagine if... Oh and they shut down gyms, brilliant, right. Imagine if everybody was actually forced. What if we mandated that? We shouldn't mandate anything in a free world but what if people were actually just forced to go for a walk every day, how would that have changed things? What I'm zinc, vitamin C and D... Now, I'm not a huge proponent of taking pills over good health, but let's add in the nutrients that we know are deficient and that are cheap, and let's subsidize that, and everybody gets a little doggy bag with a pulse oximeter and like, "Hey, instead of waiting until you're dying to go to the hospital, how about this? And you go for walks. And you get out in the sun."


Shawn Stevenson: What if they were paying your neighbors to snitch on you if you don't get your walk in, you know? Which again, in LA, I saw the notices, you know what, you have any information on people who are having more people over to their house and that kind of thing. Yeah, so asking the public to snitch on each other for very low tier things instead of like, what can actually help this person to get healthy... You know. Yeah.


Dr. Tyna Moore: I was a teenager when music was getting really political and loud and ironically, Rage Against the Machine and Nine-Inch Nails and ministry and all these industrial bands and punk bands, and I was so into it, and they were teaching... I was hearing things I'd never heard before. And on top of that, in high school, I had a history teacher teaching the US History for two years in a row who was an East German who had immigrated, who had escaped East Germany, communism, and he wore brown suits every day, and he had East German history books, so we would read US history out of our books, and then he would read us the equivalent out of their books, and it was not the same story...


Shawn Stevenson: Of course not.


Dr. Tyna Moore: At all, and he taught us to read propaganda and... So, in my formative years when I'm listening to this angry fuel music that's teaching me to really forcing me to look at things I did not want to look at. Apartheid was a huge thing when I was a teenager, so I was really, really diving deep into what was that all about? And so, I was well aware of all these things. So as things started creeping up throughout this, I'm like, no, I'm smelling something is off. The only thing I wish I had was a constitutional law degree, that would have been a game changer, but to have this knowledge of what was happening and then to have the medical background to argue against it, it's just been really an interesting trip to see it all go down.


Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, wow. One of the... As soon as you said apartheid, it made me think of Nelson Mandela. And one of his quotes that I actually just shared a couple of days ago, was, "There can be no keener revelation of a society's soul than the way in which it treats its children."


Dr. Tyna Moore: And there's a whole other topic.


Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. So, I was sharing... This is again, published by the CDC. Warns of steep decline in teen mental health. Yeah, we didn't see that coming. And for them, it was almost half. Almost half of the teens who they analyzed, said they felt persistently sad or hopeless. Almost half, in addition to that, one in five of these teens analyzed had suicide ideation. And in addition to that, and I see you're tearing up.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah, it's... We're using our children as shields. And as a young person who struggled with that herself, that was a big part of my life, and then to see my daughter... My daughter was 20 when this hit. And she had just come out of the gauntlet, five years of deep depression, and was really prevailing. I had her in community college, I had her living on her own, she was thriving, and she had such a short window of thriving, and she finally was feeling... And we were... The theme was like, "You're going to be 20 in 2020. This is it; this is your year. And then right as the pandemic hit, lockdown. Right after her first quarter of college, lockdown. And to see what... She's... Thank God she came out the other side, but we went right back into that. And to see these young people struggle, and the young people that have reached out to me on Instagram and social media, it's just... I don't know, it's soul-crushing to me that we would assume to throw away a generation like that. And I'm not even talking about the young kids, that's a whole other thing. 'Cause now the thing in Portland is the unmasked parents and the masked-up kids. The mask has become the binky and the soothe-y kind of thing.


But the young teenagers, the kids I've heard from who lost scholarships, who lost... Their whole lives, they worked to obtain something massive. Olympic dreams, gone, college scholarships, gone. The amount of anxiety, the crippling anxiety that I'm hearing from parents, that is happening in their young... I should say, young adult children that are off to college, and these kids are holding down the fort because they're not going to get vaccinated, and all of their friends are. My daughter went through it. All of her friends turned on her, and they were like, "Well, if you don't get the shot, we're not hanging out with you." And she's like, "Are you aware of... Just, "Are you keeping abreast of what's going on?" And it was just this huge thing that I watched, and I was hearing... I can't think about it, otherwise I cry. I just was hearing horror stories from people, I'm sure you've heard them too, grandmothers whose 10-year-old son, or grandson, killed himself 'cause he didn't want to live in this world.


First-hand stories, I got a lot of... I finally... I don't have my DMs on anymore, I can't read them anymore, 'cause I just had to shut it off because it was too much. But that part, it brings a rage out inside of me, that... It's partially why I teared up, but also just crippling sadness to think we did this to a whole generation of young people.


Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. Of course, these hits close to home for a lot of people, and my son, who's... He's in college right now, and his best friend from back home, St. Louis middle school best friend, he took his life. And he was, of all the kids my son has been friends with, and no offense to any of his other friends who are listening right now, but this kid was my favorite. He was... I loved him; Josh was amazing. And of course, you don't know what these kids are going through. But that's just one of the many stories that have these close touch points to me, like I see the outcome. That's... I've seen that far more than the other, not to say that the other doesn't exist with this particular virus, but what I've seen is more depressive thoughts, more suicide, more divisiveness, more vitriol, more hatred, more poor health. Everything, I can't name a thing that's gotten better unless you've proactively like, "This... I'm taking this as an opportunity to become a better human." Which there are people who've done that. Many people who listen to this show, as a matter of fact, have taken this as an opportunity to improve.


For the most part though, our society has devolved, we've taken decades away from our so-called progress by falling in line with this idiocy. So, another one, and this was just published, and what I would do is... So, what I tend to do in articulation, I'll share a major news headline, not because we should listen to them, but because that's what people are listening to. What I'll do is, I'll actually go and review the study, I'll contact some colleagues about it, I'll have discussions about it, and then I'll be able to articulate what it means. So, this was published in the New York Post, babies born during COVID-19 have lower IQs. And what the researcher said, "Authors attribute the pattern to children being cognitively impaired from being... From spending so much time inside with overwhelmed parents during the past year." While many adults have managed to tough it out, so much isolation at a critical juncture in the mental progress of infants, has likely caused lasting damage. One other one, there's... Again, there's so many. Ofsted report, COVID lock downs have left a generation of young children struggling to crawl, talk, share, make friends, and even use the toilet independently. Delays, delays, delays.


Last one I'll share, again from the CDC, "Children and teens weight gain at an alarming rate during the pandemic." And so, what they saw was, just taking one segment of these kids who are moderately obese, their rate of annual weight gain doubled. Where their annual weight gain might have been six pounds, six and a half pounds, it went up to 12 pounds. And we would... I talked to Mike about this as well. We would think, "Okay, well, this is temporary, we can fix this." No, again, this is not what we do, we don't fix these issues and we don't understand about recidivism, especially for children. Once these patterns are laid, it becomes a minor miracle to overcome those things as they get older, because it really just links into their neurology, their biology. Being obese, if you get that as a child, it... Not just that, even the developmental issues, it becomes increasingly difficult to overcome.


Dr. Tyna Moore: My mentor used to always teach patients and myself, like when I had my daughter, for instance, he said, "Lose the weight as fast as humanly possible, because you do not want your body to reset there." And we know from studies, and this is not to dissuade anybody from attempting it, but if you have been struggling with obesity, the longer you've struggled with it, the more likely you are to default back to it readily. And this is why we see people make great effort and either have results or not, and then often we'll see them regain the weight. It's very challenging, it's much, much harder than if you had maintained a lean body, if you have... And again, time under stress with that obesity really sets the stage for difficult things. With children, your stem cells are active when you're a kid, so you're making more fat cells, so adults just fill up the fat cells they have, and that in and of itself, is a whole tower to overcome. Children who become obese, especially at a young age, are now dealing with way more fat cells that are filling up. So even back 10, 20 years ago, I was sharing with patients, whether they were my mentor's patients or my own...


If there was a young child that came in, we'd focus predominantly on getting that fat off in lasting ways, through metabolic health. This was way back... Before there was a Paleo diet or a carnivore diet or any term, my mentor was saying, "Cut grains, they're inflammatory." He was treating kids for ADD naturopathically with herbs, but most notably, diet. I remember when I was a kid and I was really sick, I had a nice old doctor tell me, "Cut all white foods. Stop eating the cakes and the crackers and the breads and the ice... " Anything white, cut it out. Rice, starch, basically cut the starch and the carbs. So, these children now are set. Their setpoint is that. And so, we what... I think it was diabetes in children tripled in the US, that was in year one of the pandemic, I don't know what study it came out of, but I remember reading it and I think Mike Mutzel shared it. So, we've got... I don't talk about it on my Instagram because it infuriates me, I can't even deal with the comments that come back. So, we've set these children up, and not only the developmental delays from the masks, I live in land of the scared masked people, it's like Zombieland up there in the Pacific Northwest.


And I know you guys are dealing with it here too, but it is a trip up there, it's the rain and the gloom, and so it's really turned into this sort of messed up... It's turned into a social justice movement up there. "Wear a mask, get a vaccine, or you're racist." It's a very... Things have turned in a direction I can't even... I don't even care to fight anymore. But what we've done to children is the greatest crime against humanity I've ever seen. And now, the fact that we're using young children... These kids have no risk of dying from COVID, their chances of getting hit by lightning are higher than dying of COVID. And I looked at some statistics, I wrote a blog. You encouraged me to start a substack, thank you, it's been great. I'm finally going to say what I want to say.


Shawn Stevenson: Awesome.


Dr. Tyna Moore: I saw a crazy study showing that alcohol-related deaths skyrocketed in 2020. And then we... I looked... Or I went to the CDC and I looked up COVID deaths in 2020, and I compared. And roughly from 15-year-olds to 45-year-olds, the rate of death was triple that of COVID in the 15 to 45-year-old group.


Shawn Stevenson: From alcohol?


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yes, alcohol-related deaths. 15 to 45, it was about 2.5 to three times as much death from COVID-related... I'm sorry, from alcohol-related deaths than COVID. So that clearly tells you there was a problem.


Shawn Stevenson: Definitely.


Dr. Tyna Moore: In my age group, 35 to 45... I'm 48. But somewhere in there, I can't remember specifically if it was up to the 55, but somewhere in the middle age group, somewhere around 40% increase in alcohol-related deaths over the prior year, over 2019. That's what lockdowns have done, and we're using kids as shields. Oh, and my point to this was, if you look at... I put it all on my substack, if you look at the total deaths of kids, it was like less than 100. Less than 100 kids died of COVID in 2020, in the whole US. Much less, I think it was like 70 something.


So why are we putting them through this? To protect our sh*tty lifestyle habits. Adults with sh*tty lifestyle habits are using children as shields, they're masking them all day at school, low-grade hypoxia, no one wants to talk about what low grade hypoxia does to your brain. High-grade hypoxia has been shown to lead to schizophrenia and all kinds of issues as kids age, so what we're looking at coming not only developmental delays, but the mental health crisis, the violence that I see coming... You had Doc Amen on, and he talks about these young kids and they scan their brains and they're like, "This is the next columbine kids." I think we're going to see a huge uptick in problems in children as they age due to low-grade hypoxia.


Shawn Stevenson: I know you're right, but I just wish it wouldn't be like this.


Dr. Tyna Moore: I know, I know. We're so upbeat here. I came to riff and have fun with you, and I'm like, Ahh!


Shawn Stevenson: So, here's the thing, is that it's going to take a miracle, I believe in miracles, but it's going to take folks like yourself and everybody listening to do something. We can turn the tide. I feel that this is all happening because life finds a way. We've allowed things just to coast along for so long with people profiting, these powerful entities profiting from our sickness and our divisiveness, that shouldn't even be a thing. And matter of fact, they're the heroes during all of this, these pharmaceutical companies are the heroes during this, and so one of the things I would do, of course, is just deconstruct the foundational premise of these things rather than me trying to argue a point about Pfizer's product, just like, let's take a look at who they are as an entity, as a business. They were ordered to pay the biggest fine in the history of the Department of Justice in the United States, over $2 billion... $2.3 billion for fraud. They're fraudulent, felony, so massive amounts of fraudulent behavior. In addition to, they got caught experimentally treating children in Nigeria, these little Nigerian children with experimental drugs, they got caught doing that, they had to pay this big fine. It took them years though, for the families, and children died, to get compensated, because they're so powerful. They've been caught multiple times in international fraud, bribery, the whole thing.


Bribing governments. Of course, people of influence, but whole governments of countries.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Whole countries?


Shawn Stevenson: And so, paying out fines and the whole thing. But it's just business as usual. And not to mention Prempro, I'd go on and on, giving women breast cancer...


Dr. Tyna Moore: Vioxx...


Shawn Stevenson: Killing people. We've got entities that have literally killed tens of thousands of people from their products, who are operating business as usual. And a matter of fact, they're glorified as heroes. Now, here's the difference between us and the average Joe. "I'm still open to them having a good product. If they want to do something good, I'm open to that." I'm not just like, it's all bad. It's all bad. There is some benefit, obviously, everything has its place, but the majority of sh*t they've done is pretty dark, and if we can't acknowledge that, we can't even have a conversation. And this is where I want to ask you about, is our inability to have conversations right now. What do you think is the mechanism behind that, why are people so divisive, why is there so much aggression and vitriol when just asking questions or asking people to look at a different perspective?


Dr. Tyna Moore: My answer is kind of harsh. I think if people were to open their eyes and see what was really happening around them, and really look at some of the information you and I are sharing and think about it, what their contribution was to it, in their compliance, it would crush their soul. So, I think that they have to hold the line on their stance, they will die on that hill, just like I will die on my hill. I'll die on this hill, 'cause I'm not going to succumb to lies. I do believe there is a virus, I am not a virus denier, and I do believe that the vaccine... It's funny, I was getting smeared on social media for being an anti-vaxxer, and that same night, I was trying to talk to my dad 'cause I'd just gotten through what I thought was Delta, and I was like, "Dad, this is no joke. You're not going to make this. You're old, you're at the end of your days, you really might want to consider the vaccine," this was not a pleasant way to go down, "This will not be pleasant. I don't think you're going to make it through this one."


So, it's funny that I get... I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I am a pro-informed consent, which has been villainized. But I just think people have to... They're going to die on their hill, they've made up their mind, they were part of this, they did the things, they masked the kids. I talked to people at the beginning of this who were telling me horrific stories, which we haven't even touched on and we don't have to, but what we've done to our elderly. That's a whole other thing. And the stories I was getting in the early days of, my mother's trapped in the old folk's home, and this is happening. And I kept saying, "Why don't you go bust her out?" I would... I see myself swinging a sword if someone's trying to keep me from my mom. I'm like, "Why aren't you busting out your mom?" "Oh, well, it's complicated. We can't have her at home." I'm like, so you're going to let your mom die in an old folks home, in isolation, as her dementia and her diabetes dissolves into an abyss of hell, and that's okay 'cause your husband doesn't want her at your house?" You know what I mean? There's that conversation, which I don't mean to be harsh...


I know that everyone has different goings on in their lives, but I will be harsh because we let our old people die alone, a huge crime, again, against humanity that we've done to our children, and that part is... People can't just easily flip their script now because they were parts of these things. And so, it's like, how do they turn around and go, "You know what? Tyna and Shawn, we were wrong. We're on your side now." They can't. So, there's no conversation in my... I hate to sound... I'm just really blunt.


Shawn Stevenson: No, please, this is what we need. We need this. And I know that you've mentioned a couple of terms because you've had to deal with a lot of... It's so funny that the mandates and the... It's under the guise of something altruistic, you're doing this for others, and yet the people who are truly propagating these things have expressed the least compassion and empathy for people who hold different beliefs. And it's just so ironic, look at your behavior as a person, you're saying you want to save lives, but you don't give a f*ck about me, that's not okay, where is the line drawn here? And so, expressing real empathy and compassion requires you to think from the other person's perspective, and so even you, let me put myself in this person's shoes, woah, this will be hard for me to accept because then I'd have to accept that I've been complicit in the damage that's been done. And that can really hurt. But here's the thing too, is it's also going to be coupled with, you can heal from that, and I'm not going to just ostracize you and leave you to die like... the old girl did in the Titanic left him... He could have got on there too. You know what I'm saying?


Dr. Tyna Moore: You're not on my zombie apocalypse team. They're not invited.


Shawn Stevenson: But you see this happening, you're just like, "I'm not going to leave you there." If you want to stay there, fine, I'm not going to fight you. Because they got all these other people who want to be "saved" or help them to save themselves, because I'm not your guru. But some other people, they're going to want to pull you in. And you got to be aware of that. If you want to stay in the mock, so be it. I love you, I'm still going to love you from here, and then when you're ready, I got you. And so, dealing with all this divisiveness, and for me... And you just brought this up so we got to talk about it. We got to talk about it. I've never seen something so inflammatory before when it comes to a newly invented drug, this newly invented formulation. And the whataboutism goes back to, "Well, the technology has been around, it's never been used. It's never been used for human treatment of a virus, ever. This is okay, the technology has existed, but it's never been used in this form and also at this scale, just all of a sudden, everywhere. That's not okay.


That's not how we do science. That's not how science is supposed to work as agreed upon, just basic, very foundational levels of science and just humanity, we have to have time to see the outcomes, we have to see how things play out over time, months, years, even in many instances, decades before we actually understand the ramifications of choices when we're putting newly invented substances in the human body. And so, one of the things that I did was... And again, I'm still open to the success of it, I'm like, 95% effective, holy, that sounds amazing. Let me look at the data, 'cause I know these guys. And so, but what I'll do is let me seek out who has a published paper analyzing the data, that's why I brought on Dr. Ron Brown very early on, and he articulated everybody to absolute risk reduction versus the relative risk reduction, and that whole scene, which again, I'll just paraphrase it here, but definitely check out that episode if you happened to miss it, but the Pfizer-Moderna vaccine trials, the relative risk reduction was 95% effective and 94% effective for Pfizer and Moderna respectively. Sounds amazing. But that's the relative risk reduction. Let's use more of a clinical outcome comparison, that number we can use to analyze one trial versus another, very effectively, but it is not appropriate.


It's never been appropriate to use that number for an individual in the real world. Never, that's not how science works. Relative risk reduction is not about an individual, that number is the absolute risk reduction, and so that is the individual's risk reduction as a human being in the real world. The absolute risk reduction for the Pfizer vaccine in their own clinical trial was not 95%, wasn't 9%, it was less than 1%, it was 0.7% effective. So that's the absolute risk reduction for individual in the real world, less than 1% risk reduction. And for Moderna, it was 1.1%. And that's just how it is. So, knowing this, the poor outcomes that we've seen was not a surprise, because he shared with us, everybody, the audience included, that, hey, this number, this was not a 95% or 0.7% risk reduction from hospitalizations, that was not a primary endpoint in the trial, not for contracting the infection, none of it... Not for dying, it's for reducing mild to moderate symptoms, that was the primary outcome scene in the clinical trial, and that's not okay to just leave that out, because as this number is getting passed around by politicians, by the health authorities, by well-meaning physicians who started parroting this, they're saying this stuff, but without context. It's 95% effective, to do what? Reduce mild to moderate symptoms, but that's a clinical trial number.


Your number is actually 0.7%, right? So, knowing this now, here's my point. Having this data and then to see it come out where the director of the CDC herself, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, which... We've got to put in this episode, now I'll put the clip for you.


Our data from the CDC, today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, do not get sick and it’s not just in the clinical trials but it’s also in real-world data.


She got on major media telling the world, you won't get this virus if you get vaccinated, it just doesn't spread from people who are vaccinated. That's not f*cking true. That would get labeled misinformation, censored, she'd get de-platformed, the whole thing, if everything was done equally. We saw this, not only was it true, it was dangerously untrue. So, number one, that failed. So, them proposing that this is going to stop the spread, that was the whole thing, "We're going to end this thing." It didn't, because it never showed that in the clinical trials. That's number one. So, number two, supposed to reduce viral load, didn't fucking happen. It was not... Again, we have multiple papers, one of them is published in The Lancet, we'll put it up, everything that you're listening to, guys, we'll put it up on the screen for you. Viral load, same, same. Alright? Number three, this was supposed to end things because it would be long-lasting, this would make this shift because that's what a traditional vaccine would do, is make you immune to the thing. Guess what?


It lasts, what? A few weeks, so maybe 12 weeks, but the efficacy start to diminish almost within a week or two, for most people. Thus, the booster. So first of all, with Pfizer and Moderna, you're not only just getting one vaccine and it's saving the day, you got to get another one. People negate that. So already we got two, and then the booster is given a cute name, which means another vaccine. I have a friend, close friend, my wife's best friend who's family... Some family members that she loves and adores, they just got their second booster.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Oh, yeah.


Shawn Stevenson: And so, again, because it "wears off." That's not the promise that was given, and Rochelle Walensky even said that she was like... She was interviewed. If you can go back and change something, what would it be? She was like, I would like to be able to know that... Nobody ever said, wears off.


Where we could have improved? Well, you know, I think I can tell you where I was when the CNN feed came that it was 95 percent effective, the vaccine. So many of us wanted to be helpful so, many of us wanted to say, okay, this is our ticket out right now. We’re done. So, I think we had perhaps too little caution and too much optimism for some good things to come our way. I really do. I think all of us wanted to be done. Nobody said waning when you know this vaccine is going to work. Well, maybe it’ll work, it’ll wear off. Nobody said, “Well what if the next variant doesn’t…it doesn’t…it’s not a potent against the next variant”. And maybe the other thing I’ll say is this area gray and I have frequently said we’re going to lead with the science, science going to be the foundation of everything we do. That is entirely true, I think public heard that science is foolproof, science is black and white, science is immediate, and we get the answer and then we make the decision based on the answer. And the truth is science is gray, and science is not always immediate and sometimes it takes months and years to actually find out the answer but you have to make decisions in the pandemic before you have that answer.


So, she acknowledged that. So, three of the four promises were untrue. The fourth one was, "This is going to reduce risk of death and hospitalization." Now, this is the last thing I'm going to say on this, 'cause I have an entire paper that was dedicated to this, and we'll put that for everybody in the show notes, or you can go to, C-O-V-I-D report, and you'll get access to the complete paper. And I wanted to do it on a site that's easily shareable and consumable, as I mentioned, I shared substack with you, and it was Robb Wolf who gave me a little nudge to do substack, and so I just want to make it easy for folks, and all... Everything is clickable, you can check all the studies and the links out...


So again, report... But what I did was I went in and actually analyzed the data around hospitalizations and where it was coming from. And of course, it was not... It was very... It was dark. Once I started to actually look into it, I was just shocked at how untrue things were being framed as... Literally taking a hospital database and taking the numbers of folks who were vaccinated versus unvaccinated, and the folks who were vaccinated, but happen to have a pre-existing chronic disease, they just took them out of the count. Even if they were vaccinated... Like, get these sick people out of this count, we don't want them messing up our clean numbers.


Again, not understanding most people in our society have a pre-existing chronic disease. But the smoking gun of the entire scenario is we're using observational data to affirm this effectiveness of reducing hospitalizations. Not to say that that's not valuable or valid, but one of the principles of observational data is that it does not prove causation. It can't... We're supposed to use that and then use clinical data, trial data... Randomized control trial to affirm it. And that's not been done. Because with observational data, it opens a door for massive biases and confounding factors and all these things that as you look into it deeper you start to see, "Wait, this number... This is not okay. This is not true."... 99% of people hospitalized or unvaccinated, this whole pandemic at the vaccine that took place and disappeared.


It was never true, and it was never okay. There was no solid data to affirm that. It's based on really flimsy observational data, because our clinical trial data from Pfizer themselves, which I want to ask you about this, they actually were trying to withhold their data for like a few decades... Right, can you talk about that?


Dr. Tyna Moore: It was what... 55 years or something... They weren't going to let it out and now they're letting it out, trickling it out, and... It's pretty damning when you dig into it... And there's data coming out showing lockdowns didn't work either. But this is not on the news, this is not anything we're being told about. And then when folks like you and I release it or talk about it... Well, who are they? It's dismissed. Who are they? I don't have the right credentials apparently to hold water 'cause I'm a naturopathic doctor.


And it's just been interesting to see the complete... Just from my end... I kind of gave up the whole told you so... I want to do it to some degree, but I really got slammed by a lot of colleagues and people that I considered friends. And I wanted to send them that Pfizer data that came out and say, "Do you want to spend half an hour, an hour digging through this... A couple of hours digging through this?" No, I didn't figure you did 'cause you wouldn't be this far end of the narrative if you had bothered to spend any time looking at anything while it was going down in the first place...


So that's kind of... I haven't even talked about it on my podcast or gone into it because again, it makes me so angry, and it makes me equally as angry that people were too lazy to actually pay attention to it. I get it. I know not everybody has the privilege of the education that I've had and the time that I have to dedicate, but also, I dedicate time to things because I feel like it's a necessary part of being in society. I need to know what's going on. I need to seek out the truth at all costs. And we have been... You just said it, we've been lied to in a myriad of ways, consistently.


And so which one of these lies is going to make somebody wake up and go, "Huh, this doesn't smell right."... We were smelling it from the beginning going, "Something smells off." But that's the part that I have a harder time with is it's almost like, who cares at this point. This data comes out... We have this... People are spreading it around social media, and really, I feel like it's this echo chamber at this point where it's like... You and I... Folks like you and I are like, "Ha, we knew it. We knew this was fishy." But the masses as a whole who, like I said, are sort of stuck in this daydream state of... They can't wake up anymore.


I don't know... And not to bring up anything too dark, but I have been a victim of abuse and you... Sometimes... I was watching a program last night about a woman who... An actress, who was abused by a musician, and it took her 10 years to finally come out with it because he's so powerful. She was terrified. And my husband was saying, "Well, how did she not know from the beginning that he was trouble. I mean, look at him."


And I was like, "You don't understand. When you've been a victim of gas lighting and narcissism and abuse... " And maybe that's what it was, maybe that's why my lights turned on so fast 'cause I can smell narcissism walking... Towards... I'm like, "Not today demon. Thank you." I think that people don't realize that they've been gas lit. That there is a... And I also don't think that people realize that there could be corporations or heads of corporations that really could be as dark and evil as maybe some of what we're seeing here... That they weren't paying attention when you and I were. They... Nobody was paying attention when Johnson & Johnson finally... Right before the pandemic got hit with a massive, huge lawsuit for the opioid epidemic for driving OxyContin. They weren't there paying attention when Merck, knew that Vioxx was killing people with cardiovascular disease and 40,000 plus people died... Or more... We don't really know.


We were too busy screaming about 911 and the 3000 to 5000 lives that were lost in the World Trade Centers and waging a war against the whole continent, instead of looking at home at what was happening with the pharmaceutical industry. So, for me, it's like when I was trying to beat the drum on glyphosate and Monsanto way back in the day, and everybody was saying, "Tyna, you're getting too excited," and now they're sending me articles. And my mom's finally paying attention and I'm like, "Mom, I don't care." I can't care anymore because you and I were alerted to this a long time ago, and that's the hard part is... I knew there was villainy in the world of medicine... I knew that there were dark forces in effect... And I knew what they were capable of long... All of these lawsuits you mentioned and so many more, if we looked at all the major pharmaceutical companies.


And I think people were scared, and that fear was... Fear drives into the amygdala and the limbic system early into your lizard brain, your primal brain, and they had us within weeks. They had the whole world within weeks on this fear narrative. And then so many people are dopamine deficient, of course, because of the chronic illness in the world, so the news is... The nightly news is the dopamine hit. That fear is the dopamine hit.


And so basically, we created a bunch of fear addicts very quickly. And to turn around and look at... I think that is one aspect that is a bonus here that I think a lot of people woke up to what was going on... Stuff that you, and I know... I remember when those Rockefeller videos were going around and people were like, "I can't believe what... " That... Alternative medicine was basically eradicated early on, and that's old news. I learned that in school. That's part of our history of naturopathic and chiropractic medicine. So, in that regard, a lot of people, I think have woken up to sort of see the matrix as it is for what it is, but at the same time, there's such a majority... And I do think that there's a lot of professionals out there in the medical industry who are just afraid to speak.


They come to me and they're like, "Thank you so much for the work you're doing." And I'm like, "I am in the arena taking arrows, and you're not... " You're sitting on the sidelines applauding quietly... "Oh, I couldn't do that." I'm like, "Why not? Why couldn't you?" It almost pisses me off. They want me to give them an attaboy for the... They give me the kudos and they want me to tell them it's okay that they haven't done jack sh*t. And I am not going to... I'm going to call them out 'cause I'm like, "You didn't do anything." "Well, my license could have been at stake." So could have mine... Well, my income could have been at stake... Well, I lost... I won't even tell you how much money I've lost in business by speaking out... Hundreds of thousands of dollars.


It's... I employ now, my mother and my daughter, so that they don't have to live and work in Portland and wear masks and be vaccinated and be part of this. I built a business... That's why I sell my supplements... Literally just to employ my daughter and my mom. Because my mom's too old to be masked up all day and my daughter can't do it. It drives her into anxiety.


So that is why I do it right... And I get called greedy for selling supplements. I'm like, "No, there's utility to this. I'm trying to support my family through this pandemic." And so, I think anybody could have stepped up and been bold and brave... People lost their jobs. You and I had a business model that allowed us a little more freedom there, but I still would have walked out at any job that required a mandate. I would have been like, "Bye, I'll find something else to do." And so that part is hard for me, even when this data comes out, that is so conclusive, that people have been lied to, they just won't see it. Because again, they will die on that hill because they have to...


Shawn Stevenson: It's every concession is just justified... Like explaining away... Okay, well, it doesn't stop you from getting it... Okay. We thought it did, but it doesn't. Well, it doesn't reduce your viral load. Well, you got to get another one.


Dr. Tyna Moore: And another one.


Shawn Stevenson: Every step along the way, because as you mentioned it, you already bought into the narrative and just being able to stop and be like, "That's enough. You told me that this was the way and it's not. What you said was not true. I'm going to do other than listen to you right now." And you know it takes a lot. And so again, I appreciate... I understand... I truly do... What it takes to be like, "I will find a way." I'm not going to sacrifice my integrity and my family. I'll find a way and understanding there are other people in circumstances that they believe they can't. But when people talk about, like you said, you understand that people who might live in the inner city, might not have access to, for example, like going for a walk, if that was mandated...


Dr. Tyna Moore: And yes.


Shawn Stevenson: You gave that example...


Dr. Tyna Moore: And yes food and...


Shawn Stevenson: No but I'm from there... I'm from there. So, when people say that sh*t they really... They don't understand. Because most of the people who say that sh*t has never been in that situation. They're not from where I'm from. And if I can truly... Like... Man, I've been through it. But the thing was, for me, it was exposure. I just needed to know and get an example of what was possible. I didn't know. As soon as I saw a light, that I could be healthy, that I could live life on my terms... That I have power in the world... I lived in conditions that was always disempowering me. And I could have hung it up a long time ago, and just have been like... I had a permission slip. Be like, "Oh, you have a chronic illness." Not only do you live in Ferguson, Missouri, in a sh*tty apartment, sleeping on the floor, and the whole thing... Teenage father... You got every card stacked against you. The abuse... All of it.


I had the permission slip... Oh, like, I don't have to fight anymore because they told me that I have this problem and I can't be blamed. But... And I could have dwindled my life away and I started to, but I wouldn't be here with you right now... And it's crazy the impact that we've had and the ability to reach so many people...


Listen, this is so weird... I said this the other day when we were recording, but my books are like in libraries in China and Slovenia and Italy, and all these different places. And I'm from where I'm from, but the connective tissue there is that... I've yet to meet a person who doesn't want to be healthy...


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yes.


Shawn Stevenson: Right.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yes.


Shawn Stevenson: They might have a cognitive bias or a constructive belief that it's not possible for them, or it's too hard, or it's not for them, they're not worthy, and I've never met a person who didn't want to be healthy in there because even our use of medications or alcohol and I want to ask you about this next... All of these things are trying to get us to just feel good, like we're just trying to get out of pain, and that's the way.


We've got a quick break coming up, we'll be right back.


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Now, back to the show.


If you could, let's talk a little bit more about this because you actually been sharing a lot of information that you pull the plug on drinking and you live like you've got a wine country where you're at, so you were dabbling a little bit extra. So, let's talk about that.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah, well, first I just want... I got goosebumps from what you just said, 'cause you said something, you said, you realized you had the power, and... That's it, right? I had the same... I was white girl living in the suburbs, living at my parents’ house, sick as a dog, chronically sick, and I also was given that permission slip, I remember Doctor offering write me disability at a young age, and...


Shawn Stevenson: If I can get that disability check... Oh my goodness.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah. And it was my chiropractor who just angrily said, no, he said, absolutely not, you will not go down that path, you're better than that, you will get up and you will handle this. And he taught me how to make a smoothie. He taught me how to put protein powder and fruit in a cup and blended, and it started there, and I held my *ss down to the library and I started reading, and I started learning, and then I met my mentor, and I don't think any of these connections are just random. I think we are meant to be in the rooms. We're supposed to be in at the right time, so I just wanted to applaud you for that, 'cause I think it's very similarly like you get that glimmer of, I have power here, and we as a country, particularly the US, has been at least in my lifetime, from what I've seen, and I said this long before the pandemic, I think we've just been way, way, way conditioned to be slow, sick, fat and dumb, it's just programming it, and we were talking about the pharmaceutical commercials, it's just the programming that people just sort of roll over and take it and I will not roll over and take it, I will fight until the end.


So anyway, I'm sorry, what did you ask me?


Shawn Stevenson: So, I was asking you about... And by the way, I'm fighting with you by the way, of course, we're powerful, so... Yeah, just... If you can share your experience.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah, what came up in a house where my dad was a big drinker and Mid-West family drinking, and my mom never touched the stuff, and then as a teenager, I was a happy drinker as a teenager, and through college I drank and... Chiropractic college was full of drinkers, ironically, it was a lot of Canadians, and they can really hold their booze and just a lot of drinking, heavy drinking and you never really think much of it when everyone around you is drinking more than you, and I kept falling in love with alcoholics. Which was weird. And it wasn't until I wish I had the knowledge. My daughter has such a depth of wisdom about her, I wish I had held some of that was... And when I was younger, but I met my current husband, this is now my third husband, which I'm not ashamed of saying because I will not stay in a situation that does not serve me or my health. So, when it's time to go, it's time to go. And I'm not saying dissolved marriages, but sometimes you got to dissolve marriages to obtain your health, so I was on my third round, and I said, I'm never doing it again, and when I met him online, his profile said he didn't drink...


The last guy I was with said he didn't drink, I just kept... And it turns out the current guy is a drinker, and I kept thinking, well, how do I keep ending up with alcoholics? And of course, when you get reflective and you learn to separate from ego, which I think is part of this bigger theme we're talking about, of like, will people ever admit to that they've been had... They can't because it's really... It's pretty up leveling to learn to separate from ego, that's like a conscious work, to really learn to observe something without your ego completely driving the bus. And I looked in the mirror and I'm like, Maybe I'm the problem. Like that meme that's going around is like am I the drama, maybe I'm the drama, and I thought maybe I'm the alcoholic and... No, no, no, I don't drink that much. I really can't physically... If I have more than two drinks, I started puking. And Ryan seen it, my husband seen it, and so we got married and we were in Vegas, and we were drinking and we were having so much fun, and the arguments were getting more frequent in our relationship, and his mom grabbed my arm and said, This ends...


When you quit drink, if you quit drinking, this end... He'll talk with you. And I was like, Yeah, so that was kind of boiling around in my head, and we're in Vegas, and I'm just madly in love with this man. I truly feel like God brought this man to me at the right time, right before this zombie apocalypse, like right before everything like we were talking about, and I thought very clearly that I loved him more than I love booze.


And then I have been working over the past few years of releasing guilt and shame, 'cause my whole life was driven by guilt and shame, and I don't know where it all came from, but it all comes... All homeless, I can't say the word. Culminated into live in like a living by this, what you should do this, you should do that, and I was really breaking those change chains pre-pandemic because I was tired of living in guilt and shame and what I should be doing and living my life on my own terms because I realized I probably have more years behind me than I do in front of me at this point, I don't plan on being a 100, I don't think that's going to happen, and I just...


I don't know, call it hunch. And I realized that tyranny was taking over the planet, and I cannot be hung over and crunchy feeling in the morning with the speed of which things are happening, they're really happening, I knew they were going to happen the minute this pandemic hit... I knew it was going to get where it's gone, I just knew, and I was like, okay, well, this is really happening, I can't keep numbing myself out during this process, I thought maybe I could just drink my way through the pandemic, and then I wouldn't remember it as well, and that wasn't clearly going to, it's not a going to... And this is this whatever tyranny has crept up in the world is not going to end any time soon, easily, so I better quit drinking, so I am fully aware of what's happening, but as I have each month that I have been alcohol free, I'm going into what I stopped January 1st, so I'm in month four, each month, something new comes through first month was the anxiety that I was feeling that I was using alcohol to numb was actually being caused by the alcohol, so that was a big one like, Oh, I actually was using alcohol to take the edge off, but the edge was there because of the drinking and I...


Again, I wasn't drinking high volume, and I'm a really transparent person, so I don't mind talking about this at all, I just was consistent. And so, in that consistency, I was having this low grade anxiety that I was using alcohol to supposedly get rid of, and then in month two... The clarity started coming, so the hits from the universe, the flow states like being... You know, when you get in that flow state, it's awesome. I hadn't been there in a long time, and I was starting to get depressed about it, really depressed, and I realized that flow state was being kept from me because I wasn't stepping into my own power, I wasn't communicating with my higher self on a regular basis. I was too numbed out, right, and I think now I'm at the point where my mitochondria are recovering, my thyroid recovering... I just said to my husband the other day, I used to get these crippling bouts of cold where I would just get taken over by cold, and that's very much a thyroid Hashimoto's thing, which I have and lots of women do, and I realize that hasn't been there, since I quit drinking is like...


And any women listening know what I'm talking about, if they suffer from it, you're so cool, I would grab him and literally make him lay in the bed with me and hold me because the cold was so bone-crippling and it hasn't been there. So there's all these little perks that keeps showing up, but I think at the end of the day, I was supposed to be here on this planet with the knowledge base that I had and the suffering I had to go through to obtain this knowledge base, not just the education, but the actual illnesses, I've endured, the chronic illnesses, the auto-immune conditions, all of it led me to a place where I could lead from a place of power and help people from my platform, and I had built the platform. It wasn't huge, but it was big enough that I had a voice, and I knew how to use it. I knew I do use the platform and I was able to help as many people as you have... Right, we were able to help when we could because of what we built, so we were supposed to be here when that happened, and moving forward, how do I serve my higher self to my greatest good? And I'm not a super religious person, but I do believe in a higher power, and I believe that I communicate with that higher power, and I did a lot of things in a haze because of alcohol, and the one thing I think I do have some guilt and regret about is that I never stopped drinking.


For my daughter, I was a single mom for most of all of this career building, and she suffered because of the career building, and I was drinking to get through the stress of the career building, and I think now I wake up with these little hits thinking, You know that behavior you were exhibiting with your daughter all those years ago that you feel so guilty about, that was the only time that was happening was when I was either under the influence of alcohol or the next day when I was struggling with feeling sh*tty from drinking alcohol, so I have to process that, of course, and let that go 'cause I don't need to carry that guilt and shame, but I keep texting her and she's like... It's okay, mom, I've forgiven you. I'm like, I know, but I used to come from a place of anger 'cause I was so overwhelmed, you're a single mom doing it all, it's not easy, and so there's times where I just am not that person anymore, but I think alcohol was driving a lot of well, pretty much every bad decision I've ever made was driven by being under the influence of some...


It might have been just a nasty response I made on Instagram after a glass of wine that led to a whole shit show for the next two weeks where I'm like, how did I get here? Oh, you had a glass of wine before you answered that, random Karen in their accounts attacked you and they... You know what I mean? So anyway, it's been really eye-opening, I'm not going to go back to alcohol. I think it's called spirits for a reason, and it's just been really... I'm not also judging anyone, I'm not coming from a high horse by any means, whatever, anyone... That's a thing, I don't care if somebody wants to get vaccinated, I don't care if somebody wants to eat like shit, I don't care if somebody wants to drink themselves to death, as long as it's not impacting my life. Do you want to take sh*tty care of yourself? Great, but when it became a pandemic of the obese and sick and inflamed... That's when I started having a problem. Right, that's when I was like, we got to do something so... And that my responsibility to this is to not be sick and obese and inflamed or allow the family history of diabetes that I have to get me, so quitting alcohol was part of that.


I got to be a better version too, if I'm going to ask my audience to do the same. So that's the long answer.


Shawn Stevenson: You're amazing. You're really amazing.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Thank you.


Shawn Stevenson: This is so cool. And thank you so much for sharing, because that's another thing that I think our teachers struggle with, which is being able to share what we're going through, and so this term authenticity tends to get messed up with marketers, but truly like sharing your story and your struggles, that's where people connect. And I love that you mentioned this isn't about... I'm not telling you that you have to do this, but for my story, and I know that of course, many people are going to see themselves in that story as well, but also again, and I love these specific words, "I don't care."


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah. I don't.


Shawn Stevenson: Right. "I don't care." Even that when you said it, it still is like, you care about people, yeah, but it's your life, and for me, and I know is... You as well, I don't care if the treatment that we've used is effective or not, like if... I don't care if isolating humans is effective or not, on the surface, I don't care if it happened to be the best thing ever, or we unlock superpowers and we evolve in X-Men by isolating ourselves. Cool. I don't care, I care about outcomes, I care about science.


So, if it's not effective, we can call a thing a thing. And over the course of this conversation, I've heard your pain from dealing with the vitriol when you are just truly somebody who's dedicated her life to serving and people don't know what you've gone through to be that person and keep showing up, and so one of those terms and you kind of just like, I get called out for this, I get called out for that, you said this term fat shaming, so I know, of course, folks have come at you like, so the number one risk factor for death from covid is obesity, is the number one risk factor, it's just what it is, and again, I don't care if it was toe fungus, I don't care.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah.


Shawn Stevenson: It's just... But this is what is... And so, you might share some data on this and say, "Hey, we got to address this issue, we've got to get our society healthier," and then some random person is like, "So you're blaming fat people for Covid?" It's just like, "No," this... Again, this is like the biggest epidemic that we're experiencing as a society is MTP syndrome... Missing the point.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah.


Shawn Stevenson: Right?


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah.


Shawn Stevenson: People are really, really great... Or a virus, it's the missing the point virus, is just really great at missing the point. The point is, this is our biggest issue, and we can actually do something about it, and it can be joyous, we can unite, we could have so much more connection and community and love, and so many good things come from that. This is not about this term, again, it's being weaponized of fat shaming. This is about acknowledging. I think that this is the point to clear up, we are not advocating for everybody to be the same. Personally, I like thick... A little thicker than the snicker, you know what I'm saying? We don't want everybody to have the same body type or to be the so-called societal perfection.


There are so many different shapes and sizes and expression of human beauty, we just don't want you to be sick. We just don't want you to be in a position where you are breaking down internally and outwardly, you're like, don't fat shame me. But at the same time, you're diabetic and you've accelerated your aging process, and not only is that... In and of itself, you said something earlier that I don't want to glance over, there's a strange twist of selfishness in that because you don't understand how your poor health is affecting your children, you're not acknowledging how your poor health is affecting your community and your family, not only is it altruistic and being of service to love yourself and to be of service to you, it's one of the most altruistic things, it's why you took control of this aspect of your life, so you could show up better, and you started unlocking super powers you didn't even know...


And we mentioned this, I don't know if it was during the show or beforehand, but I was... When I was hanging out with Dr. Amen, and he... Every time I talk to him, he says this thing to me, and I'm not going to say it just goes in one ear, and out the other, but he says that, Shawn, alcohol is not a health food. Because he's looked at all these brain scans and he can see it, and he just like... The brain damage, he's just like, this really does tear our brains apart and we're wondering why it would evoke anxiety, right? It's just like your body is trying to re-calibrate and sort out your nervous system. You know, and so, but also at the same time, again, there can be some value found in it, potentially, but from listening to my guy who's looking at brains, it's not a health food.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah, I've been listening to him say that for years too, and just kind of ignoring it and it's... Well, it's easy to ignore when you got your vices, and something I want to point out is, I remember being in school and somebody said... 'Cause I waste when I get sick, I waste away. And somebody said... Another colleague who... We were just about to graduate and she said something you have to understand is when people are deep in their pathology, whatever that is, some people expand and some people contract, and so I think with the current food supply, we should really look at big food, a lot of people are expanding in their pathology, the pathology is not just overeating, it's multi-factual, and I would never make it so simplistic to say that overcoming the pandemic, now we have of obesity is going to be simple, but I do think that this current viral pandemic, which I think it's over. I think... I'm not worried about it anymore with Omicron, but the world seems to think it's still a thing, and horrible things are happening in China, this isn't going to end until we address that, and the metabolic dysfunction that comes with that.


That is the underlying thing. I don't care what size somebody's body lands at. Their... I call it their fighting weight, where do you feel best at. I would always say to patients, where do you feel strongest in your skin, right? And that might be a different weight for everybody, of course, we're different humans, we're different ethnicities, we have different epigenetics, but...


Strength, underlying strength and physical fitness and stamina, the bottom line is to be harder to kill, and that was so offensive to so many people when I set said it out loud that we have to as a society become harder to take out, and my colleagues came at me and said, how dare I and called me all kinds of names, isn't that... We have six tenets in naturopathic medicine, and I believe it's... The third one is Docere or Doctor as teacher. And so, I couldn't believe the amount of pushback I've received, my job is to teach people, so teaching people how to be metabolically healthy and sound in a profoundly sick society, that is no easy feat. And I understand that it's a monumental undertaking, and we have folks like you and Mike Mutzel and several others who... Gabrielle Lyon, holding the line around this theme, but at the end of the day, the onus of responsibility again is on the individual regardless of where they live, big pharma is not going to save them.


The allopathic medical system is not going to save them, and again, I knew this decades ago, so I was well aware of the corruption going back and people are just waking up to it, which I'm excited about, but nonetheless, it is still true, even with four boosters. I mean what, are we going to boost people's immune systems to dust, like what are we doing? No one... And we don't have to get into it, but no one's talked about what the potential real repercussions immunologically are going to be, but we're already seeing it. We're seeing it right now in South Korea, it's not good. The point is, no one's coming to save you, right, get up. I posted that at the beginning of the pandemic, I was like, "No one's coming to save you, get up," and I, of course, took so much heat. That narrative has never been shared. It's just... It's this nanny state they want us in. This sort of big pharma nanny state, where we trust big agriculture, we trust big food, we trust big pharma and they're going to save us, you're going to save yourself. Your wife is not going to save you, the kids aren't going to save you, you're going to save yourself...


Right, you know that. You wake up, you get out of bed, you do the things you do to make this meat suit, I think we're just spiritual beings walking around in meat suits, right? You're going to make this meat suit as profoundly resistant and resilient as you can, and that is your job, it makes you a better father, it makes you better dad, it makes you a better businessperson, it helps you serve your audience better. It makes you a better citizen in society. I want to be helpful. I don't strength train just to have a nice physique, I strength train so I can help people, what if something falls on someone and I have to be able to lift it off. I mean, I truly, I think about that. I think what if a bookcase fell on my daughter and I wasn't able to lift it, how bad would I feel 'cause I was too weak to help her, and so I built this meat suit back up. It took me a long time, like I said, I tend to waste, so covid wasted me. I had 10 more pounds of muscle on me before covid, so that is the bottom line that in the message I'm trying to drill into society is, your health is your responsibility, there is no pill, there's no supplement, there's no functional medicine doctor or chiropractor or someone who's going to save you, and even if there was somebody who could help you, like right now, mold sickness and lime and all these things, are the big rage, well, what happens to bodies that are stagnant, they get mold and infections, it's like a stagnant pond.


The base, we call it basic treatment guidelines in naturopathic medicine, the base is always the same. It's functional health, its lifestyle, it's the food you eat and the company you keep, and the mindset that you have, and the spirituality that you possess, and the movement that you do. There was a physical... There was a whole movement called physical culture way back in the day, and it was... People were celebrated for being physically fit, it's a... Strength is celebrated, and we have now oddly come to a place where good health is actually under attack, there's literally a war on good health, at this point, it's not just, "Let's boost the whole population into immune dust," it's literally let's vilify the healthy fit people at the same time, it's gotten very weird and distorted, and I am 100%, 150% in, if someone says, Tyna, I'm ready, let's go. I mean, I have these t-shirts that say, "Don't be zombie bat," and I sell extra extra large ones all the time, if people are ready to get on the bus and let's go, but we're not keeping the ones around... That is what zombie bat is, right? It's the ones that want to sit there and complain and say it's everyone else's fault, I understand that we've all been dealt bad hands, some worse than others, and some have had great support system.


But I have always had a great support system, thank God for my great parents, at the same time, I built what I built, I didn't come from wealth, I didn't come from good health, I had a lot of genetic stuff stacked against me, if you will, and it comes down to the little things we do every day, like the foods we choose to put in our mouths, the way we choose... I don't want to get up and go for a walk sometimes, but my dog starts dancing and I got to go. I don't... I started strength training in my 40s, in my early 40s, around 40 years old, I started strength training because I wanted to be a better mom, I just wanted to show up better in the world for my daughter as she turned into a teenager, I didn't want her to see a sickly skinny woman who had chronic migraines, right. So, these are the steps we take every day and the work we put in, I show up, I do the work to be a better wife on this round of marriage, I want this one to work out right. So, I will do everything it takes to be the best wife I can be to him and show up in the world for him.


And work through my nuances, but a lot of our nuances, a lot of our baggage is really self-deprecating, and that shows up as poor health in a lot of people. "I'm not worthy of good health, I'm ugly, I'm not attractive, I'm not... " These are the sad stories people tell themselves, so this is all stuff I've heard patients say, 'cause I treat a chronic pain and people have all kinds of sad stories as to why they should remain in chronic pain, even just getting them to accept of letting the pain go is a whole psychological trip. So, this is why we have therapies like ketamine, and I think why plant medicine has become so big is because people are starting to realize that their ego is driving the bus and maybe not necessarily their higher good and their higher purpose. And part of that, I believe, is optimizing this meat suit, take care of it, like take care of what you've got, and...


Therefore, you can take care of your family and community better.


Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, this has been amazing. It reminds me of the quote from Jim Rohn. I used to listen to a lot of Jim Rohn, he just seemed like granddad vibes, but he said that no one else can do your push-ups for you.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Ahh!


Shawn Stevenson: And it's just like a principle of life. Now, this also comes with this caveat that you can do your push-ups with other people.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah.


Shawn Stevenson: Other people can support you. You could support others like, you don't have to do this on your own, but your health is your responsibility, and we have to take full responsibility for that principle, right now, again, we've been outsourcing it, like somebody fix me, I've done it. We can have people who are allies in that for sure, coaches and support and add services and these type of things, but ultimately your health is your responsibility, is your gift, that body that you're in, that brain, those ears that are listening to this, or the eyes that are watching this, these are all your responsibility, and it can be the most beautiful thing in the world. And as I mentioned, this is not about being some kind of ideal of what perfection should be, this is simply about working towards being better, that's it, because no... Man, there's so many people who are in process right now, and you should be celebrating that because part of the struggle often is that we're hating ourselves into the thing.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yes.


Shawn Stevenson: Right, and that's the narrative that needs to be addressed. Is getting pushed on to you that you're not good enough, that you are flawed, that you are unlovable, whatever the case might be that you're not... You're not what you can be and just hating themselves into change versus loving yourself and appreciating yourself and investing in yourself and just walk in that direction. There's somebody listening right now that their mission is to lose 100 pounds, right, and maybe they've already lost 40, and I need you to celebrate that more, like celebrate yourself and that you’re in process, you don't have to be perfect, you don't have to be like I'm not... "I'm the obese story that they've been mentioning." Nah, you're working on yourself, you're in process.


Dr. Tyna Moore: They're on the journey.


Shawn Stevenson: You're not a part of the problem. You're a part of the solution. And so, we need that more than ever, and you are a huge part of the solution, like just even being here with you... You are a powerhouse; I could see it. And I appreciate you. Can you let everybody know where they can follow you, get more information, just be able to stay in your universe.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Yeah, you said something that I just wanted to kind of riff on, I think that if people trusted their bodies more, we wouldn't have so much fear, the fear factory that's driving the narrative, and the way that you learn to trust your body more is through the journey towards health. It's not a destination. It's just a journey, right? And like you said, if they're on the path, then they're part of the solution, and through that will come more trust in your body and anything that comes its way, you will have more trust and enduring... That's the key, that's what I'm always trying to get out with people. So anyway, thank you so much, this has been so much fun and such an honor, and I'm so glad I finally got to meet you in real life. I can be found mainly on Instagram at Dr. Tyna, and that's my main handle, my website,, and my podcast is the Dr. Tyna show that you're coming on soon, I'm very excited, so those are the main places to find me.


Shawn Stevenson: Awesome, well again, thank you so much for coming down to hang out with us and listen, for your show, make sure people subscribe to your show as well because... I'm about to go off like I've never done before. It's going to be amazing. So, make sure to check that out. And again, I appreciate you, thank you so much.


Dr. Tyna Moore: Thank you.


Shawn Stevenson: Alright, Dr. Tyna Moore everybody.


Thank you so much for tuning into the show today. I hope you got a lot of value out of this. Make sure to check out more from Dr. Tyna Moore on Instagram, and also, of course, check out her podcast, such an amazing human being who's doing a lot of work to get people educated and empowered, somebody who's actually reviewing published data and sharing with folks so they can have a more balanced perspective. And again, it's really about empowerment right now, and to see the video of this episode with the studies and the like that'll be put up on screen for you, go to, that's T-Y-N-A, And this is because with this conversation publishing on YouTube, it's a little bit sketchy. YouTube has their own particular mandates and conversation topics that can't necessarily be talked about on the platform, which is really unfortunate, and just to share a story with you, I'm sitting here right now in the studio, I'm looking at my plaque from YouTube right now, I'm looking at it, this award that they sent me for achieving this 100,000 subscribers mark, for example, and what it is, it's a celebration of an ideal...


What it is, is that they're trying to give a little bit of bait for creators and people who are reaching people and inspiring people to keep making content for their platforms so that they make money. That's what it's really about. Here's this little crumb, we're sending you this award, keep making us money, but when it really boils down to it, they're censoring the voices of their citizens... Of our citizens, and we could say this is an open platform, but it's not really like that. And we could say it's a private platform, not really like that, most folks today, they're either Googling or YouTubing things as a mode of education, and so that matters and it just it is what it is. It's not to say that it's right, but it's just where we are as a society, people are tuning into these platforms, and we know we've got proof directly from the horse's mouth as they say... And I don't know where that term came from, because I don't know if it's from Mr. Ed. Shout out to Mr. Ed TV show, where the horses talking Wilbur... I don't know how I got that. That's so random.


But here's the thing, straight from the horse's mouth with our government and the press secretary, for example, talking about the fact that they are working alongside social media companies to help to guide what is appropriate and what isn't, what's deemed to be misinformation by them, the kings of misinformation, alright, the royal family, the royal entities of misinformation, and for them to say what's true and what isn't, and understanding really one important tenet that I think gets lost in all of this is that there isn't just one truth.


And we have to really sit with that because most principles, most theories about our lives as human beings at some point, the argument for their sanctity, their argument for their effectiveness breaks down, there are very few things that are 100% true, and to negate that and all the beautiful shades, all the beautiful spectrum and colors of truth that are possible, that can lead us forward as a society that gets destroyed, that gets suppressed, that gets crushed when we start to dictate to other people and have entities controlling what's true and what isn't, and there is no open space for a conversation, for a healthy debate, for actually holding a space, even if you don't agree with the person, to hold a space that, Hey, maybe what you're saying is true to some extent...


Let me investigate that. Let me look into that. Right, that's what we need more of. And so not being able to publish this on YouTube is, it did bother me for a while, but I understand what they're doing, I understand their platform, and hey, we'll utilize it, we'll utilize the platform and play their little game, but please know I've got a bigger plan in store, I've got a bigger mission. And what I would love for you to do as a show of love for this information and for this empowerment is to head over to YouTube, subscribe to The Model Health show on YouTube because we do publish exclusive content there and just send a little bit of a surge of energy through that platform to let YouTube know like, Hey, you've got a lot of people who love this channel, who love The Model Health Show, who have love for Shawn Stevenson, and let that algorithm get a little shaken, alright, shake up the algorithm a little bit, so that would really mean a lot if you did that for me today, again, it's the Model Health Show on YouTube, and to see this video episode again, you're going to go to, T-Y-N-A, and you'll be able to access the video for this episode and listen again, we are just getting warmed up, we've got so many incredible things in store, so many amazing master classes, absolutely game-changing guests as well coming up for you very soon, so make sure to stay tuned.


Alright, take care. Have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon.


And for more after the show, make sure to head over to, that's where you can find all of the show notes, you could find transcriptions, videos for each episode, and if you got a comment, you can leave me a comment there as well, and please make sure to head over to iTunes and leave us a rating to let everybody know that the show is awesome, and I appreciate that so much, and take care, I promise to keep giving you more powerful, empowering, great content to help you transform your life. Thanks for tuning in.

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