Listen to my latest podcast episode:

TMHS 782: Microdosing Exercise, Staying Motivated, & The Best Way to Build Muscle – with Mark Bell

TMHS 370: Taking Bold Action, Helping People Win & Making Time for What’s Important with Pat Flynn

No matter how many followers you have on social media, you’re an influencer. It’s not about how you make an income, but the impact that your words and actions make on the people around you every day. Making connections, building trust, and having the ability to make an influence is such a profound part of the human experience. 

And as an entrepreneur, cultivating those relationships in an authentic way is an integral piece of sustaining your business. If you haven’t built trust and loyalty with your audience, they aren’t going to spend their hard-earned dollars on your products or services. If there’s one person who knows a thing or two about building a loyal audience, it’s Pat Flynn. 

Pat is a thought leader in the world of online entrepreneurship digital marketing. He takes an authentic and honest approach to building businesses and creating relationships. On today’s show, Pat joins us today to share principles from his newest book, Superfans. This episode covers the insights and tools that are necessary to build real connections, redefine the way you think about making a profit, and change the lives of the people around you. Enjoy! 

In this episode you’ll discover:

  • How losing his job inspired Pat to start a business. 
  • The power of creating lifelong fans. 
  • Why being uncomfortable can cause you to take bold action. 
  • How sharing random facts about yourself can build relationships.
  • What it means to create a quick win. 
  • How Pat inspired the creation of the Model Health Show.  
  • The multifaceted benefits of attending meetups. 
  • What Pat’s wife taught him about fandom. 
  • The pyramid of fandom, and how it relates to engagement and sales. 
  • What you can learn from reading 3-star reviews on Amazon.
  • Ways to make your audience feel like they are appreciated.
  • The incredible advantages of having a small following. 
  • What lessons Pat had to learn about hiring and outsourcing as a business owner. 
  • Why it’s so important to set time boundaries as an entrepreneur. 
  • The importance of having a consistent morning routine. 
  • Why being flexible can help you find success.   


Thank you so much for checking out this episode of The Model Health Show. If you haven’t done so already, please take a minute and leave a quick rating and review of the show on Apple Podcast by clicking on the link below. It will help us to keep delivering life-changing information for you every week!


You are now listening to The Model Health Show with Shawn Stevenson. For more, visit

Shawn Stevenson: Welcome to The Model Health Show. This is fitness and nutrition expert Shawn Stevenson and I am so grateful for you tuning in with me today.

It's a very, very special episode. I've got somebody who's a really good friend of mine on the show today. And man, he just had a huge impact on my life and I'm going to actually share that with him today deeper levels that he probably does even know yet.

And even helping to, in his own way, make The Model Health Show possible and learning from him very, very early on. And so he's just a good friend and an absolutely incredible human being, and so I'm really excited about the conversation.

But this has really sparked and me wanting to bring him on here is a conversation that we've been sharing lately on the show with some episodes talking about the importance of improving our financial fitness, our financial health.

Because right now, currently the latest statistics show that money and stress over money is the number one cause of stress in our culture today. That should matter, we know how much stress is a big impact on our health and wellbeing.

Stress literally changes the chemistry that is taking place in our bodies. When we're feeling under stress or chronic stress, every single thought that we have has correlating chemistry that goes along with it, so stressful thoughts are just creating more and more stress hormones, neurotransmitter dysfunction and just making our bodies not work and our minds not work as optimally as they can.

So we want to address all the different stresses in our life, that's what The Model Health Show is really about, it's not just one thing, it's not just about the food— food is a huge component. It's not just about fitness— fitness is a huge component, sleep wellness, our relationships, all of these things pour into our overall health and wellness.

And so with that said, I always want to bring you the very best people in the world and their respective places to give you the insights on how would it take your life to another level in that space.

And so right now this guy is a person that's been helping the most people online to create thriving businesses. And so this is going to be for everybody who's interested in entrepreneurship or created being a sidepreneur, but it's also going to be anybody that's interested in improving your communication and improving your relationships.

Because the insights that he is going to share are super valuable for that as well. And again, I'm just really excited about this and I think you're really, really going to enjoy this episode.

For me, he just actually drove up here from San Diego to L.A to hang out with us and I'm super grateful for that.

But whenever I think about San Diego I think about my favorite company down there which is where Organifi headquarters is located. And I love those guys so much, just like, such good people, huge hearts, big mission, like the company culture, just to come on board there, like you got to be about that life.

And it's just such a refreshing environment to be in and just a big shout out to them because sourcing organic ingredients, Earth-grown nutrients to create their products and for me, getting on the go when you're trying to grab a green juice or you're just trying to optimize your nutrition, it's not always easy.

And so that's really, that was the intention behind creating their Organifi Green Juice formula, so no matter where you are, you're going to be able to access those nutrients.

Now obviously, a fresh-pressed juice if you can get it that's awesome, but what they did was a low-temperature process, low temperature dried some of the most powerful green superfoods and put them together in this formula.

And I've shared easily over the years, I've had at least a dozen different green blend products out there, some of them taste like licking the bottom of a rusty horseshoe, I don't know why I said that.

Some taste like, have you ever bit off the eraser off of the number 2 pencil? Have you ever done that? Am I the only one? That's super weird that I did that, I haven't done that in a long time, I was a kid. But some of them taste just like someone what is that flavor?

This formula actually tastes good, this is why I'm the biggest proponent of it, because it has nutrition but also it tastes good, so again, my kids drink it, my oldest son Jorden, this is one of the main things that he does daily is have Organifi Green Juice.

So spirulina, which is clinically proven to trigger something called stem cell genesis, so the creation of new stem cells is a very unique component in there, called phycocyanin, which is one of the kind of active ingredients that makes that possible.

Chlorella with its nerve growth factor capabilities, both of them are clinically proven to reduce inflammation in the brain, the list goes on and on.

There's also some Ashwagandha in there and again, it tastes good. So pop over to check them out, I'm a huge fan of the Organifi Green Juice go packs because I travel with them when I'm on the road.

So you can check those out as well, but whatever it is that you're into with Organifi, the Red Juice formula, the Green Juice, you get everything at 20 percent off which is the most incredible thing about it by being a listener of The Model Health Show.

So pop over there, check them out, it's to get that 20 percent off, so it's to get 20 percent off, pop over there, check them out now. And on that note, let's get to the Apple podcast review of the week.

iTunes review: Another 5-star review titled, "Newer me" by J.Rod Libing. "Hey there, bud. Your podcast has helped me change my life. I went through a gigantic change in my life on St. Patrick's Day of 2009.

I was in a horrific motorcycle accident that I'm still recovering from to this day. I don't see eye to eye with too many people either due to my injury or the character of the man that I am. I wanted to tell you personally how great I know what you are doing for us really is.

You have personally influenced my reaction to many different circumstances in my life. I would be willing to send you the picture I have of me now and what I have of me while going through that nearly tragic event."

Shawn Stevenson: Ah, wow. Wow that's such a great share and I'm so happy and grateful for your transformation, I'm so happy and grateful that I get to be a part of your story and just thank you for taking the time to share that.

And I'm just pumped for the next level like you're just getting started, just getting warmed up and this is just a huge testament for all of us no matter what we go through, there is always opportunity to get better.

Life is not always going to be easy, things are going to happen, tragedies can strike, obstacles, struggles, but all this stuff is giving us the potential, the opportunity to get better.

And guys, again, if you've yet to do so please pop over to Apple podcasts and leave a review for the show or whatever platform you're listening on, leave a review, let everybody know if you think of the show and I appreciate that so much.

And on that note, let's get to our special guest and topic of the day. Our guest today is my friend Pat Flynn and he's the author of the bestselling books, "Let it go" and the Wall Street Journal bestseller "Will It Fly?"

And he's a true thought leader in the online space of entrepreneurship, digital marketing, and lifestyle business and his popular Smart Passive Income podcast has been impacting the lives of millions of people for several years now.

He's also on the advisory board for Pencils of Promise and this is a really awesome organization that's working to build schools for kids who are really in need of education and opportunity.

And he's also been profiled in Forbes, in the New York Times and countless other programs, bloggers, podcasts shout him out all the time because he's just one of the best people out there.

And he lives with his family in sunny San Diego, California, and again, he made the trip up here to hang out with us today. So let's jump into this conversation with the incredible Pat Flynn.

That's one of the things I really do love about you. Every time I meet somebody and I tell him about you, he's like, "He's such a good dude," and people say that but it's just like it really is the case with you man. And you've been transparent, you've made mistakes, you keep on working to get better.

And what's so crazy is even how your story started off in this space was like, you went to a good school, you did all the stuff you're supposed to do, you got a good job, you were doing the 401K. You did everything right.

You did everything right. And then something seemingly wrong happened. So can you talk a little bit about that, because this is another important thing, I've been doing a lot of shows recently on financial wellness and just thinking differently because nothing is really guaranteed and your story is a good example.

Pat Flynn: I thought I was doing all the things I needed to do to have a secure job, to have a perfect life, American dream, that whole thing. And ever since I was little I was taught to follow the path and even coming home from school, I would come home with a 97 percent of my test and that wasn't good enough, I had to get 100 percent all the time.

And it was a struggle and it definitely added some conflict in the house because we would spend 3 or 4 hours on that 3 percent that I got wrong, it was never about the 97 percent that I got right.

And over time, I just learned to get better and do better and throughout college, I graduated from Berkeley with an architecture degree and I was set, I was doing all the right things, it was all paying off.

And then 4 years into my architecture career my boss calls me into his office and he goes, "Hey Pat," this is around 2008, so the recession. And they are like, "We kept you on as long as we could but we have to let you go."

And I didn't have a plan B. Because I was on planning and I was doing all the right things, there was no need for a Plan B. And yet, I still got kicked out. And it was a very depressing time, I had just proposed to my girlfriend and she said yes, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, what is she going to think, she didn't sign up for this life, she signed up for what things were."

Thankfully April was very supportive and just told me, "I'm here for you no matter what, we're in this together." And that was really reassuring.

But I immediately wanted to get back in architecture so I called all my architecture buddies, I called all the mechanical engineering and plumbing companies that we worked with and I begged and pleaded, I was like ready to take an entry-level job, that was all I knew.

And even my dad was like, "This stuff happens," he remembers stories from his dad and the Great Depression, but he was like, "This is a perfect time to go back to school, you go get your graduate degree, that that's what this means.

Now you have time to get your master's degree and then come out of it when the recession when we all come out of the recession with an even better paying job." And I was like, "You know, I could do that," my dad's always right but I was like, "I did everything that I was supposed to do and it still didn't work out, I need to take control."

If I fail I want it to be because of my own faults not because of something external. And the ultimate way to control your future is to be an entrepreneur, in my opinion, to control your own fate and to build something that serves others and then in return serves you and your family and the others around you.

So I had gotten really inspired, this is when I discovered podcasts, podcasts were just coming out, they were super nerdy and geeky at the time but Apple put them into iTunes and it's like free audio, free learning, education.

And I found a podcast about Internet business, I mean there was a bunch of them, they were all like snake oil salesman right. But there was one that stood out to me hosted by 2 guys, Jason, and Jeremy from Internet Business Mastery.

And it was actually one of the first episodes I listened to, it was an interview with a guy who was helping people pass the project management exam, the PM exam and he was making 6 figures doing that.

And I was like, "Holy crap, I've taken so many exams as an architect, maybe I can take the hardest one and turn that into a business just like this guy." And to make a long story short that's exactly what I did, I was very active in forums, helping people pass this exam called the Lead Exam and beyond that, I had created a study guide.

And this study guide was for sale for the first time in October 2008 and I sold that for $19, It was just connected to my Pay Pal account and on the first day I think I sold 4 and then 6 the next day, and then like 9, and then 12 up to 40 or 50.

So that first month, October, I made $7,908.55 which was 2 and a half times more than I was making as an architect. And then fast forward to like March of 2009 and it was like 25 thousand, 30 thousand dollars a month coming in from an e-book. And this was before e-books were like a thing, this was like just a PDF file, it was literally just PDF file.

And it showed me that you could have the business done in a way where it actually can be helpful and you can get paid in return, but the craziest part about this was I had one woman, in particular, I talk about this in the book, her name is Jackie.

She emailed me several times, actually, she had been studying for this really hard exam for over a year and failing and she finally found my stuff and we connected via email and I was helping her out.

And she took my study guide and helped herself pass this exam. And she was super stoked on that, right, so she sent me an email to thank me, she was like, "I would love to invite you to dinner, can we hang out. I'm just so thankful for what you did for me."

Again, I don't know who this is, we've just been connecting via email. And at the end of the email said, "Your biggest fan, Jackie." And I was like, "Biggest fan?" You are fans of sports teams, musicians, artists, actors, actresses but not like a person who helped you pass an architecture exam like this didn't make any sense.

So I kind of like brushed that aside but then a couple of months went by and I checked my customer list, it was like 25 or 30 people all from the same firm because they all had the same e-mail address at the end and apparently she had convinced everybody in her office including her boss to buy my study guide.

She could have just shared it for free, it was an e-book, but she convinced them to buy it from me. So that one person, Jackie, turned into 30 new customers, I was like, "Wow, if one person can turn into 30, imagine what 30 people could turn into or a 100 or 1000."

And that's what has always been my business and really life philosophy is help people become a fan of you, become somebody's favorite so that you can always be the one that's recommended, you can always be the one that's thought of, and when you are in need you can you for something without any hesitation, but more than that without you even asking, they're going to go to bat for you, they are going to be an ambassador, they become lifelong customers.

Just like we are and I am a fan of "Back to the Future" I've spent tens of thousands of dollars on "Back to the Future" stuff because I'm just a huge fan. But people can become fans of people online now and podcast hosts and creators and it's just such an amazing time we live in now.

Shawn Stevenson: That's so true man, like that story is so crazy, there was a part of my mouth that was just hanging open.

Because you also shared many times along the way, you were scared man, and you took a lot of risks, put yourself in a lot of uncomfortable situations to create the net for those things that come back to you.

One of those stories, and this is just about connection too, because regardless if somebody is inspired to be an entrepreneur or somebody is an entrepreneur right now or even if you are wanting to be the favorite person at a structured, corporate job, all of this is going to apply but it's really going to apply for communication and for people.

And so I think, it was one of the podcasts you were listening to, the guy was having a meet up in your area because that's part of the process too, of like getting people more connected to you, it isn't just online connection, which can be powerful, but it was actually meeting up in person. And you were scared out of your mind to go do that.

Pat Flynn: Out of my mind. I mean throughout this whole process there were so many things that really happened that when I reflect back I'm like, "Whoa I wouldn't have normally done that."

And I think it was because I got laid off and because my back was against the wall that I did things that I wouldn't normally have done.

And I think a lot of us who may be in our heads we have a 9 to 5 but we aren't completely happy with it, our backs aren't necessarily against the wall, therefore we don't take that bold action that's required to get those big, bold results back.

And in that moment that you're speaking of, Jeremy who's one of the hosts of that podcast that I listened to, who I became a fan of, because I just listened to them every day I became like they were my virtual friends.

Jeremy moved to San Diego which is where I was, and he was just like, "Hey guys anybody in San Diego, I am going to be around, I'm going to host this little mastermind meet up and anybody who's in the area you can come by we can all meet each other."

And my heart just started pumping when I heard that on the episode and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I live in San Diego," and when I found out where it was, it was walking distance from my house where he was going to meet everybody at this Panera Restaurant.

And so I went and I just saw the whole group there and I almost did a U-turn, I was just like, "What am I doing here? I went to school for 5 years to be an architect," and I'm like this scrappy want to be entrepreneur right now with these dudes who are much more successful than me. I don't have anything to contribute.

But then I went in I turned back around and I sat down, I introduced myself as a fan of the show first and they were like, "Okay, we're going to go around and everybody is going to introduce themselves and what business they're in." I'm like, "Oh man, I have nothing to contribute here."

So I listen in and one person's a copywriter making over 100 thousand dollars, another person is in the health space like changing people's lives. And I'm just like, "I'm helping people pass an exam. That's what I do it I'm not making very much money," I just had advertising on my website at this time through Google AdSense or something.

And it was my turn and I'm like, "Hey guys, my mouth is dry, my name is Pat Flynn I have a architecture website and I am just teaching people how to pass an exam". And that was it, that's all I had.

And they were like, "Okay, tell us about your website, how well is it doing, how much traffic are you getting?" I am like, "I am getting like 4,000 people come in to the website."

And they were like, "That's pretty good, like in a month to have 4,000 people come, 4,000 people is a lot." And I was like, "No, that's like 4,000 people a day." And their jaws dropped.

They are like, "You have 4,000," that was more than some of them. And the reason it was so much is because I had been contributing to the sort of lead exam space for a couple of months at this point, very active in forums, a lot of my stuff on my website was getting linked to on green building council websites and just like people started hearing about all the things I was contributing to help people pass this exam so I had all this traffic.

And Jeremy was just like, "Dude, you need a product." I am like, "What kind of product? Like a book or something?" He is like, "No, like an e-book, make it easy on yourself."

I'm like, "What is an e-book?" I didn't even know what that was. And he was just like, "Go into Word, write down everything you know about this exam, turn it into a PDF file and sell it."

And I was like, "That sounds easy." And I was like, "Okay," so I go home and I just start typing and 2 and a half months later I have this 88 page PDF guide that then I sell through my website, and the rest is history.

So honestly if I didn't muster up the courage to go and that wouldn't have happened if I didn't have a reason to do that, then none of this would be the case. And even going back further, if I didn't get laid off none of this would happen, right? So I'm so thankful that I got let go, even though that was some of the hardest times.

And I've realized over time and time again, that oftentimes the best things happen after something terrible happens. I'm a big fan of "Back to the Future" actually one of the first things that I did when I got laid off was go back to my apartment and just literally watch that movie over and over and over again, at least 50 or 60 times.

And the reason was because it allowed me to escape but it also made me go, "Oh maybe one day a DeLorean will be built and I can go back into time and I can change things, I can maybe get a better job or work harder, do a completely different field or something."

But, of course, every time the movie ended it was back to normal, and I eventually realized that "Back to the Future" is a fiction story.

However, there's some truth to the fact that you can change your story for your future because, in the movie, Marty goes back to 1955, messes with things and then comes back to where he was and everything's different.

So we can't go back to the past to change things, but we can change our future, we're writing it right now. And so I knew that at that moment I had to do something because the future I was writing in my depressed state, watching "Back to the Future" all the time was one where I was just going to be fat, depressed and sad and lonely. So I decided to change things right then and there.

Shawn Stevenson: Wow, man that is so awesome. I didn't know you love the movie that much.

Pat Flynn: I do. Yes.

Shawn Stevenson: You know it's so crazy, you said in the book as I was reading it, I was like yeah because every time I hear "Back to the Future" I think of you.

Because that's one of the things that you really help to kind of push into this space is really being yourself and being authentic and sharing your quirkiness and your weirdness and your love of different things.

And so doing that with your audience is just, and just in general like that's that connective tissue. So let's talk a little bit about that because I think another big step for you along that path of really stepping in to this level of like satisfaction in your career and greatness and connection, was like there's a bigger event, and it was that social media marketing world or something like that, it was a big event you went, that where you met the guy who had the kid, who said, "I left my kids to come here."

Pat Flynn: Oh right, right, so this was back at BlogWorldExpo, which no longer exists anymore.

Shawn Stevenson: That's why I didn't know what it.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, nobody knows about it anymore. And anyway, a lot of great things happened at that event the number of years it was going, a lot of connections.

But I remember the first time I went, so scared, I had never been to a blogging conference before, I didn't know what to expect and just I saw all these super nerds who were just typing away and with their name tags I was like, "This is so different, thousands of people."

So I'm sitting in the main hall, waiting for the main keynote to start and I don't know anybody at this point. And I am just looking around, trying to connect to somebody and then I just hear a bunch of people start introducing themselves to each other. "Hey my name is this, where are you from? My Name is this, where are you from?"

And we started getting to know each other since we were in proximity, but honestly, I don't remember any of their names. But there was one person I remember because specifically, he had mentioned that, his introduction was, "Hey, I left my wife with my kid at home, how about you?" And I was just like, "That's so funny because my wife and kids are upstairs right now and I feel terrible leaving them there."

And then he and I connected because of that, that little tiny fact brought us together and we got to hang out the rest of the day, and he's not the blogging space or doing any business anymore, but we still keep in touch with each other once or twice a year which is kind of cool. And so I have in my business realized that there is power in sharing these little bits about yourself that have nothing to do with your business.

Much like how when you get to know somebody as a friend, these little things you know about them even though you may not have that same interest, it just becomes a part of who they are just like "Back to the Future" is a part of me.

So I refer to the "Back to the Future" quite a bit, I talk about it quite often, I insert it, it makes its way into my presentations every once in a while and as a result of just a little bit of talking about my love for this movie, now every time that movie plays people go, "Hey Pat, I was thinking of you."

Or if a person sees a DeLorean on the street they think of me, and I'll tell you, 2015 was a good year for me because of that, because that's the year that Marty goes into the future, it is the 30-year anniversary of the movie so literally every day I would get dozens of tweets, like, "Pat, did you see this promo, did you see this thing happening on ABC? Did you see this, did you see this?"

I've literally, it's like Inception, right, because now people are thinking of me without me even having to be there because of these connections. It reminds me of like even when I first started blogging there was a blog that I followed simply because he also followed UFC, I was into UFC fighting at the time and he would insert it into his social channels every once in a while, he was like, "Hey guys, I am at a fight tonight," and that's it, that's all he would say but I thought it was cool because I also liked and he liked it too.

And just that little connection brought me closer and deeper into his stuff. So this stuff, like a lot of people go, "Okay Pat, I get it, share random facts about yourself," kind of, you don't have to share what you're eating for breakfast every single day but just like whatever makes you you, make sure other people know that too.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, oh man, even now, I know that you like Pokemon, just today, because I gave you a little gift bag with some goodies in it, you were like, "Oh, Pokemon cards," and then it just struck me like, "Oh, Pat likes Pokemon." But it wasn't like—

Pat Flynn: Let's get this straight because that can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. I think my son and I have been getting into collecting Pokemon cards, thanks to Chris Ducker who I is a good friend of mine too and he's like, it's allowing him and his child to bond together and me and my son, his kids' friends at school are into Pokemon cards too, so I am like, "Hey, I want to get in on this too."

So I've been like paying attention to their value and like their rarity and all this stuff. I don't actually play, yet.

Shawn Stevenson: The only thing I know about it is Detective Pikachu, that's about it.

Pat Flynn: That's alright, don't spoil it.

Shawn Stevenson: Men, it's such a good story, man, but this is just a call to action for all of us to connect deeper, especially whether you're networking for your business or you're just creating new relationships, stop with the surface level, what do you do— I mean, we can find out what somebody does for a living, but then we also tend to put people in a box.

And once I know what you do then I can judge you and label you, right. Instead of like connecting, like the guy saying that to you, "I left my wife and kids to be here, how about you?"

And it's kind of funny but it's not like he's like, "Let me write this joke down," you know what I'm saying? It's just like just being yourself and sharing like that's the current structure of why he's there right now. So we can all apply that.

And so what I want to talk about next man, and I haven't shared this in detail with you, but the first time that we connected, so it's just levels of connection as well, and especially if you're an entrepreneur and especially if you're doing anything online today.

You helped for The Model Health Show to be here, and for us, it was something free that you gave away, you gave us and you talk about this in the book, giving us a quick win.

It was like a free guide on how to start the podcast, and so my wife used it to set things up and I was putting out some content, it was maybe 30 episodes into the show and we hit number one in the country.

And I sent you a text, no, I'm sorry, I sent you a tweet on Twitter and I was just, I didn't even know what the tweet was I still can barely say it, but I sent you a tweet like, "Pat, thank you so much, you helped me to hit number one in the country."

And at that time, you were like right there, responding to a lot of stuff, and you replied back like, "Dude, that's awesome but I couldn't have made you number one without you creating something amazing, like you creating great content." And I was like, "Well, I guess he's right." But at the same time, dude, you're amazing.

Pat Flynn: Thank you for that.

Shawn Stevenson: And from that moment I think you might have peeked over and listened to the show and then like that kind of created our relationship, but I don't know if it was shortly after but you had a meet up in St. Louis and I was like, "I am going to go see this guy."

So I didn't make a big deal, I just kind of dropped in and you did all the things that you're saying and people are just more and more connected to you because you made yourself more available in different ways, not just surface stuff. So you gave me something for a quick win, you gave me value.

When I celebrated you celebrated with me but gave me the victory. And when I had the opportunity, you created an opportunity for me to hang out with you and to see you.

Pat Flynn: You're talking about all the things I'm talking about in this book, right?

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.

Pat Flynn: So, to start, the quick win— quick wins are huge, I think all of us especially people who are training others or coaching others, or building any kind of brand even at work, a great way to have people remember you, to become somebody's favorite, to be recognized is to offer a quick win.

Oftentimes we try to help people in such a big grand way that it becomes overwhelming, it becomes something that doesn't happen right away and they might move on. So if you're trying to help somebody lose 25 pounds, why not start with 2 pounds and just give them that small, quick, good feeling, endorphin, so they can come in and get motivated to remove the next 3, the next 4, the next 5.

Charles Duhigg talks about this in his book "The Power of Habit" I mean, there is a whole chapter about the power of small, quick wins, but psychologically it offers somebody sort of a mental reward and then they will continue to come back to you to get more rewards and so you can go bigger, and bigger, and bigger after that.

This is why video games are the way they are, level one is always the easiest level and you only have to slay a couple of creatures, open a couple of chests and immediately you're at experience level number 2.

And then you unlock new things and then you're like, "Oh my gosh, let's keep going, experience level number 3," and then all of a sudden you're out for 48 hours with your guild because you have to slay the next monster or whatever.

That has happened to me before. So small, quick wins lead to much bigger transformations, so small quick wins, I offered you this free guide, you were able to get a quick win, getting your podcast up and running and, of course, with your great content and your personality, it shots number one which is really cool.

I think another thing that was there was leaving no handshake left sort of there unreceived. Especially when you're just starting out, it's harder and harder as your brand and business continue to grow, but if a person messages you, it's polite to message back.

And the funny thing is it's almost unexpected these days to get a reply, so it's a good advantage if you can even with a small following be there for them and show up for them, that's going to get them connected too, these are great triggers to have a person go, "Oh my gosh, like Shawn is my guy," right or, "This is my girl because they're there for me."

A little bit of attention goes a very long way. But then you mentioned the meet up and meetups are a great way to bring your community together and it's just like when you are a fan of music, it's all these little touchpoints that lead into you eventually going to the concert to see the person or the group, and I talk about April and her love for the Backstreet Boys in this book.

And she told me her journey of it was the first time she heard the song and the reason that she really connected with it was because of the lyrics, April was going through something in her life that this boy band just could decipher and uncode for her, and it just really meant a lot to her.

And then she went and got the album and then posters on the wall and then eventually leading up to going to concerts and then VIP access and blah, blah, blah the whole thing keeps going.

By the way, her favorite band member is Nick Carter who's super tall, blonde, blue eyes, the opposite of me basically.

So thankfully she's come back from those VIP. But the meetups are great because the funny thing about the meetups is if you're putting them on, the funny thing is they're not about you, but you facilitating these meetups and I don't know if you do them very often, but if you don't, you should, because it brings like-minded people together and people want to be in a group with people just like themselves. It's just human nature.

And I did, I think it was at that St. Louis one, it was, I don't know, was it a pizza joint with like people having pizza?

Shawn Stevenson: We got pizza.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, okay, so it was at that same exact meet up that you and I met, I remember it was the end of the night and there was a woman there who just, I saw her for the first time and it was like over, and I was like I felt so bad because she came to my meet up and I was like, "Oh my gosh I didn't spend time with her, I want to say hi and maybe I'll spend time with her later."

And I go up to her and I'm like, "Hey, I'm so sorry I didn't have time to introduce myself and get to know you here, we can chat later if you'd like."

And she's like, "Pat, don't take this the wrong way, but I didn't come here to see you." And I was like, "What?" I don't get it and she was like, "No, don't take offense, like I said, I love you, I love your show, I listen every day, but I never get a chance to see people just like me, and you brought all of us together and I have already found and met some great friends here, potential partners too, thank you for that." And I was like, "Oh snap, these meetups aren't for me, they are for everybody else."

And you look at other companies like Lego, Lego influences and encourages Lego fans to all meet with each other. Have you ever heard of Afol? Do you know what Afol is? A-F-O-L? That's an Adult Fan Of Lego.

Look up Afol meetings like on or other places, you're going to find thousands of meetups going on every single year where Adult Fans Of Lego can get together and just nerd the crap out on Lego stuff like, "What's the new set," or, "Hey, let's do this competition together," or whatever. Adult Fans Of Lego.

And so Lego encourages this and they help support that. Because they know the power of when you bring people together, like-minded people, it helps the brand in general.

So I've been doing a good job, hopefully, of doing these meetups when I go to different places I speak at, but most recently I did a big conference in San Diego called FlynnCon for my community.

The crazy thing about that was I didn't tell anybody who was speaking, I didn't tell anybody any of the programming, I just said, "Come to San Diego for 2 and a half days, here's the ticket price, let's see what happens."

And I have 400 people sign up to come to San Diego, and I remember many people coming and going just, "I don't know what you have planned, but I'm a fan, which is why I'm here." And I'm like, "Oh, this is so perfect."

And at that event, I gave away this book Super Fans so it worked out perfect because those were the super fans who came to San Diego. So I could go on and on about this stuff, because none of this stuff is new, it's old business coming back in today's world.

Shawn Stevenson: Exactly.

Pat Flynn: You know what I mean?

Shawn Stevenson: And utilizing the tools.

Pat Flynn: Utilizing the tools, yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, man, that's so powerful. Like you said, you just had your first annual event, with your own name FlynnCon, which is amazing.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, people would be like, "How self-centered are you?"

Shawn Stevenson: No, dude, we talked about it in the mastermind, like I thought the name was incredible like it was meant to be.

And what is so amazing and like when you told me about it I was a little worried about it is the fact that you weren't telling them stuff, people literally just coming, like, "We'll see what happens", you didn't even tell them about certain speakers. I was like, "Man that's pretty unheard of", but if anybody could figure out if it works it's you.

And sure enough, the stories and the feedback and I'm going to talk to Chalene soon as well, just to hear her side of the story.

Pat Flynn: She's great, she was our first guest speaker on Saturday Night, but yeah. So my community is known as team Flynn, that's another tactic I talk about in the book is when you get a group of people, give them a name, give them something they can relate to and talk to each other, give them a language that is their own.

Just like how Star Trek, they're all Trekkies right, or fans of Taylor Swift are Swifties; fans of Lady Gaga are— was it Little Monsters?

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, that's right.

Pat Flynn: And then Beyonce is Beehive, it goes on and on and on right. You give them a language, you give them a name, but so that was for Team Flynn meeting together.

I always say I am the team captain, Team Flynn I wear the C on the shoulder but we're all in this together. I'm going to pass you the ball sometimes and if you score guess what, we all win, that's the whole idea there.

And I made this conference like very much me, right so very kid-friendly. It was in the summer so people brought their families which is great, there was an arcade, we had a Mario Kart tournament the entire weekend, and it's like, "What does that have to do with business or any of the stuff that you teach?" I am like, "Nothing, it has to do with having fun and being together and being a community."

And the funny thing is that has everything to do with business and life and fulfillment. And so it was so much fun, like literally the last final 4 Mario Kart people on the big stage, like 40-foot screen, maybe not 40 feet, that's huge, but like a 25-foot screen playing Mark Kart and just the whole crowd going, having fun, it was so much fun.

Shawn Stevenson: It's like that, did you see any of the Fortnite competition stuff? Of course, you did, but dude, like the kid, I think he was like 16—

Pat Flynn: I think he's 13 or something.

Shawn Stevenson: 13 years old. He won like 3 million dollars. From—

Pat Flynn: A video game. You're flossing.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, it's so crazy, man, it's so crazy. I think the second place kid was like 11 or something and just won like $900,000. It's amazing what acts because I remember even here in those terms around, parents were like, "You can't make any money playing video games."

Well, guess what— you can, and just whatever you're passionate about, not saying that you're going to win a million dollars playing video games.

But my neighbor, for example, when we met he was like, "I've been a gamer since I was 6," guess what he does, he helps now to finance, to run the finances to help video game companies to blow up.

And so he's involved with all the gaming behind the scenes stuff, it's just like he's connected to something he's passionate about and you can see his face light up when he talked about it versus what he used to do.

And so there's no better time than now to access things that light us up. And so in the book it's super fans, right and you're talking really about taking people from just casual interactions, building your "following" and creating super fans by really changing people's lives.

And you gave this story, and it was so funny man, you just mentioned it with April with the Backstreet Boys. And so I literally, when I read it, my wife was right there, I was like, "Are you Backstreet Boys or NSYNC?"

And then she was like., "Backstreet Boys." And I was like, "Why?" And she was like, "You know, they just seemed like they had it together a little bit more, they were a little more polished and mature," and you know, she just started going on, I'm like, "Okay, that's, I got it, I got it."

Pat Flynn: She analyzed this.

Shawn Stevenson: But for me, this was TRL time, I dug NSYNC a little bit, they had some swag, I knew Justin Timberlake was about their life and then they had the song with Nelly, and it just like took it over the top for me being from St. Louis.

But so for you, what did you see in your wife April's connection with the Backstreet Boys that really kind of helped to change your thinking with superfan thing?

Pat Flynn: When I was doing research for this topic, which initially was done for presentations, this book is actually a result of presentation that is my most successful presentation turned into book form. I had asked her, because I knew she was a fan of Backstreet Boys, like, "Hey, so how did you get involved with this group, tell me about it?"

And I thought it was going to be a 5-minute conversation. It was literally 2 hours. And it was just all the things that happen from day one that she remembered listening to their songs and all the things that she did, leading up to what you never want to hear after talking to your wife to 2 hours about Backstreet Boys.

She said the words you never want to hear after that kind of conversation, she said, "I have something to show you". And I was like, "Holy crap," some tattoo or something I don't know about. And it was almost as bad.

So she took me to the closet and took out this like bin and it was opaque, and I was like, "What is inside there?" She opened, it was like Nick Carter's face looking right at me. And I was like, "How much stuff do you have?"

It was like bubbleheads, concert programs, framed pictures, all this stuff and I was like, "Oh my gosh, you are a super fan and you've kept these things for years and you still follow this group," and then she's still continued to follow them.

And she will argue that they're better because they're still around and are still dropping albums and still selling out concerts where as NSYNC half of them are in Sharknado or whatever, the movie.

So what I learned was that she wasn't a fan like a superfan right away, fans aren't created the moment they find you; they're created by the moments you create for them over time.

But there has to be a trigger moment, so that's where you kind of turn that casual audience, the person who just turns on the radio and all the songs go by to somebody who goes, "Oh yeah, there's my song, that's my favorite song," they'll turn the volume up, right.

Her moment was when she was 15 she broke up with her boyfriend and then she heard "Quit Playing Games with My Heart" where like every word in that song was like exactly what she was thinking. And when you think about it from like a business perspective, the target audience for Backstreet Boys were girls, 13-18, what happens to girls between that age?

They fall in love, they fall out of love, so that's part one they know what they're going through but part 2, they understand the language. So in the book, I talk about if you're trying to help anybody learn the language that they would respond to, what are their lyrics?

Just like how April responded to the song and then, of course, she went and got the albums, she went to their first concert, posters, pictures, VIP's, backstage access, all the stuff kind of happened after that.

But her first concert was really important too because I realized that a concert has a date and all the anticipation leading up to it adds fuel to the fire right.

So this is why FlynnCon is really important, because it was a date set in time and everybody who were fans were becoming even more fans because they were just thinking about, "Okay, what are we going to do there, who am I going to meet, I am getting really excited about it."

For April, she was like, "What are we going to wear," she's going with her best friend, I'm like, "Who cares what you're going to wear, they're not looking at you. They’re just dancing anyway." We get arguments about these things.

But then at the concert itself, she met people because they already had a common language— who is your favorite band member? What was your favorite song? Blah, blah, blah, all those things.

So her journey taught me a lot about what it takes to build fans and I've been trying to sort of mimic similar things in my business, in my life. So yeah, that's what April taught me, I'm just thankful that she pops in in the book and makes fun of me a little bit.

Shawn Stevenson: Dude, that's so awesome, man. Just so many things came up like the whole concept of like getting super dressed up, going to a concert. The last concert I went to it was like a fashion show, for real.

Pat Flynn: Who did you see?

Shawn Stevenson: Oh, man, who was it? I don't even know, I just remember being in the hallway and just seeing everybody— I think it was Beyonce, it was Beyonce.

Pat Flynn: Oh, of course.

Shawn Stevenson: We're going to see Beyonce, we're going—

Pat Flynn: She might see you.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah.

Pat Flynn: Mine was Ed Sheeran, I think. That was fun, too.

Shawn Stevenson: And also, dude, the breakup thing, like for me, high school, Brian McKnight, "One Last Cry." Oh my gosh, dude. Still, a huge fan of Brian McKnight to this day is because of that moment, the lyrics you know. And I'm just exposing myself right now a little bit, but you know what I'm saying.

Pat Flynn: No, this is the light right here, you're bringing some of you to the table for everybody to connect with, it becomes more you and people love that.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, man that's got to be the saddest song ever written, by the way. Anyways man, dude, so for me also just connecting and aligning myself with things that I'm a fan of and that's what I really do for my audience too because it's not just about me, it's about other people, this is why you're here.

I literally bring on people on this show, on this platform that I'm a fan of. And also even with my sponsorship as well, the companies that I align myself with, people probably notice like it's only been a handful whereas people reach out to me literally every day, every day, and it's just because these are things that I utilize in my life and people and companies that I love, like also just being able to know the people behind the scene it's another thing like you're talking about.

We don't want to work with nameless, faceless organizations anymore. I know Aubrey with Onnit for example, like we've spent time together, like I've hung out at his crib, in his extra crib in Arizona where he goes and has his way of the warrior walks or whatever he does there, anyway so just hanging and spending that time and just seeing who he is as a person and the impact that he really wants to make on the world.

You know what's so crazy when we first met, it's just like he aligned 2 things he is passionate about which is fitness and nutrition. And that's what we do here on the show, but I just didn't want to get into the products side, I wanted to be in the information side, teaching side.

And so anyways man, when you got here I gave you those gifts, Alpha Brain, I had a feeling that you liked, that you utilized—

Pat Flynn: I've used that before, yeah, it works really well.

Shawn Stevenson: It's crazy man. For some people it's just like that's their limitless pill, but for other people, nah. But this is why I big up the Alpha Brain.

So as far as neurotropic, number one it's Earth grown nutrients, so it's not like cousin Vinny in a lab somewhere whipping this up, you know. But they did a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study on Alpha Brain, this was published in The Journal of Human Psychopharmacology and they found that Alpha Brain does, in fact, increase your verbal recall, so your verbal recall memory, 12 percent versus a placebo, 21 percent faster completion time and executive function and they replicated these results over and over and over again.

So big shout out to Alpha Brain and Onnit, pop over there, check them out, it's, that's if you want to get your brain gains. Check them out, 10 percent off everything they carry.

So dude, customers, subscribers, followers, superfans. You created like a different pyramid, and inverted pyramid is like what we would see typically when we go to anything about entrepreneurship, this "funnel" you're like, no we need to really build up and go on a journey and really help people in a different way.

Pat Flynn: Exactly. So I call it the pyramid of fandom and it starts at the bottom so the largest part of the pyramid, this is where most people spend their time, and this is your casual audience, the people who have kind of just found you, they just heard about you, they don't even know you really exist, maybe they're there on your website or on your blog or socials because you answered a question or something.

But they don't really know who you are yet. It's your job then to sort of elevate them to become an active member of the audience, so a subscriber, somebody who follows you, they know who you are now.

And when you come out with something or you have something to say they are going to listen. And they may or may not take action on that, right. But it's when you then level those people up to the smaller portion but it's the community, we're close to the top now, it's a community, there's an identity there, they can feel like they're a part of something, they feel like they belong to something and therefore they are going to go to bat for it, they're going to defend it, they're going to be an ambassador for it, they're going to bring and recruit even more people into the community just like them for it.

And then at the top are your super fans who are just like insane, they are going to drive 12 hours to see your set, they're going to buy every product before reading the sales page, they're going to, they're all out for you.

That's the smallest percentage but I want people to start focusing on building for the superfans in the community/superfan area because guess what, that's where most of the customers come from, that's where most of the engagement comes from, that's where most of your actual target audience is.

But we're all focused on search engine optimization, Facebook advertising, blah, blah, blah to get more people in from the bottom, to grow our casual audience right.

And the thing is you have to work to get people up the pyramid. It's easy to get people to find you, but what happens after they find you? So you're talking about this other pyramid, if you invert this pyramid of fandom and you start at the top, it's the widest part, it looks like a funnel now, right.

And this is traditionally what a lot of marketers will teach, and it's still important but I think we forget about the actual pyramid of fandom which requires you to kind of go against gravity.

The problem with the funnel is, okay, it teaches you to bring as many people in as possible at the top of the funnel, the traffic, and hope that just automatically gravity will bring people down.

So traffic, some of them will turn into e-mail subscribers, some of them will turn into customers, right. That's the funnel. But the problem with that is we just only focus on the traffic.

What happens to the user experience? And that's what I really want to focus on superfans. The analogy I like to use is if you're at a restaurant like, the worst thing to happen is you finish your water and there's no waiter, there's no waitress, you have to kind of ask for it and get up, that's the worst thing and most people are good enough to not let their customers get to that point.

But what most people are focused on when it comes to customer service and helping people have a good experience is they wait for the water to either be all the way gone before they refill it and usually it's when a person is asking for it.

The best customer service is the one that happens not reactionary but proactive. So before that water even gets halfway you're already helping to fill it up, and that's the kind of business kind of interaction that I want to encourage people to do, because that becomes the small little thing that gets remembered and it doesn't even get close to becoming empty, because you're always there proactively helping people.

And there's so many ways to do this down business like you said, we have access to all these tools now.

My favorite strategies for just helping people feel like they're a part of something is to use your Instagram or Twitter DMs, or your Facebook direct messages, send a video message to somebody will literally take 10 seconds and just say, "Hey I appreciate you for this, and thank you and if you need any help let me know." Boom, that's it, no agenda other than to just connect with that person and give them a little bit of your time.

You can even do this while you're on a walk or something, it doesn't need to be highly produced. And the reactions are just incredible because nobody else is giving them even an ounce of their time and you're giving them a little bit of time in a video, right.

And what you're doing here is my buddy Jordan Harbinger says is you're digging the well before you're thirsty. Because if you are digging the well when you're thirsty, it's already too late.

And so what most people do is they do all the outreach when they need something. And that's too late, you need to do the outreach and you need to make these connections ahead of time for no other reason than to just establish these relationships and show people that you actually care about them and that they belong to something.

Shawn Stevenson: So awesome, man, it's so awesome, and there's so many tips and insights like that in the book, I mean it's beyond valuable, and the thing is, of course, it's still just executing on the things.

And also the funny part is a lot of it is fun, a lot of it is— again, it's really, really simple. Some stuff is not easy, like you said, like you're going against gravity, but at the same time and one of those things that I know was a struggle for you as well but for me definitely, I'm still kind of dealing with it and processing it, because I wanted to, early in the early days, 5 years ago, 6 years, I've been in this space for 17 years, but like online you know like 5 years ago I was like replying to everybody, every message that came in, because I wanted them to hear from me and just to know— because even to this day, it blows my mind that people, like that you know, that they are connecting like that you know.

And so literally at Target just the other day, we just got here to LA, we're at Target and shout out to the person who's listening because she just kept it moving, she was like pushing her cart I was pushing my cart, she was like, "I love your show, by the way," and her husband was like, "What show? Who are you talking to this guy?" He was joking, but I didn't think it was funny. But no, I am just kidding, I think you guys are awesome.

Pat Flynn: You are pretty threatening.

Shawn Stevenson: And so, just having that experience it blows my mind and I want to make sure that people feel like please come talk to me, I am not like on some Christian Bale whatever and he might be nice, I don't know.

But you know, I'm not on that, like I just I genuinely I do this for you and so being able to respond to all the messages though, I mean like literally it gets into the thousands and it's just like, there literally isn't enough time if I want to be able to see my child, you know what I am saying.

So what do people do, first of all it's an advantage when you're just getting started right, so let's talk about that and then talk about like what do you do once things get— you just can't scale it?

Pat Flynn: Being small, starting out is a huge advantage for a number of reasons. Number one you actually have a smaller but more core audience that you can focus on and give them more time and attention.

If you only have for example 50 people who follow you on Twitter you have the opportunity to get to know 100 percent of your audience, right. And the benefit of that is you now have an understanding of the kinds of people who follow you and the problems that they might have and the solutions that you can create for them.

And where there are 50 there are likely 500 and likely 5,000 or 50,000 of the same kinds of people who are going through the same kind of life. And so that's a huge advantage.

Another huge advantage of being small is you have the ability to come in fresh into space and bring something new. A lot of the other companies or brands or people who are just in a space for such a long time, they get so jaded by being so inside that space and you are coming and you're able to read the label from outside the bottle, some of these people are inside and they can't read what's going on.

So you have the ability to come in with something fresh and new and exciting perhaps even— So a classic example of somebody who's trying to build a physical product to sell, go to Amazon find similar products, look at the 3-star reviews. You get to see from the people who are buying similar products what they like and what they don't like.

The reason I say the 3-star reviews is because those are the most honest. One stars are maybe something went wrong or 5 stars you never know they're just automatic 5-star people. But 3, they will literally tell you here are the pros, here are the cons.

So now you can come in later but go, "Okay, I'm going to focus on just creating all the things people love and removing myself from things that people don't like." So you have an advantage of being small but when you scale up and you grow it's tough, and I remember I only wanted to be a solopreneur, and that's it.

I didn't want to hire people, I wanted to keep it small but my brain continued to grow and I got to this point where I was getting stretched so thin that I was either going to burn out or I was either going to let a lot of people down. And so what ended up happening was I let a lot of people down.

So I ended up getting to a point where my inbox was at 10 thousand unread emails and then every new e-mail that came in I was just like, "I am sorry, I'm not going to ever get to you, I apologize."

So eventually I learned that there are people out there who can help you manage these kinds of things, just like how there are people who you could hire to help keep your home clean or people you could hire to help you schedule your appointments or whatever.

And so I hired somebody to help me manage my email, not to pretend to be me and reply, but to just reply on my behalf and to let people know that we got your message number one, that's like the most important thing, that their message was received.

Because how many times are people sending messages just left unanswered, right? So that's step number one, even if it's not you having a person know that your message is received, is good.

Number 2, when they get the answer that they've been looking for, amazing. And so I realized that I don't always have to be the one to share the answer.

And number 3 there are other tactics you can use, like an FAQ page on your website or one thing I love to do is create podcasts that answer very specific questions and/or videos.

So now my assistant Jessica, she's amazing, and Abby as well has come on to help, because we've grown even bigger, is when a question comes in and of course we always know what the most common questions are so we create videos about them, we just go, "Oh, we've already answered that, here is a link to that video for you to answer that question for you on how to set up your podcast or whatever."

And of course, they see that, they get their question answered right away, but then they are hearing my voice, they are seeing my face, they're diving in and then all of a sudden, they're like 50 videos deep into my stuff and they're buying my books and coming to my events. So quick win leads to bigger things.

Shawn Stevenson: Love it, love it, love it man. Again, guys, there's so many insights, so many tools like things that I accidentally did correctly and things that as I see them, it's just like, man, I really need to put that in action like so many things.

And the thing is you can pick things that fit for you right now and just do some stuff, just try things out and that's really— did you call yourself a crash test dummy?

Pat Flynn: Yeah, crash test dummy in online business and the reason is because I try things, I experiment, I put myself on the line and then whether it goes good or not, I report back to everybody so that you can have an advantage.

Shawn Stevenson: Dope, man, dope. So one of the other things I want to talk to you about is with all the growth and the obstacles and figuring things out, you've also had to adjust your schedule, you've been really, you've had different iterations of what that looks like with kids. So let's talk a little about that because when you started off, I think your kids were really young and I think you were like working after they go to bed or whatever.

Talk about that because the reason I want to talk about is that that's for a lot of people is their story, like, "I don't have time." So let's talk about that.

Pat Flynn: For me when people say, "I don't have time," to do the things you want to do, that's code to me that the things you're saying you want to do aren't actually a priority for you. Because if things were a priority, you would make time for them.

This is why when we talk to parents it's like, "Oh well, I am taking care of my kid, because that's a priority, but I don't have time for these other things."

But there are ways that we can find time or optimize time or get help to do the things that we want to do. So going back to my story actually before we had kids, it was me and April, we got married, my business was taking off and I was a night owl.

I was working late nights because I just was hanging out with April all day and we were traveling and so 9 pm to 2 am was my work schedule and I was cranking getting things done.

But the problem was I was just learning how to be an entrepreneur and learning how to control my brain because the problem was I was thinking about my business all day long.

And I remember April and I were in a conversation once and we were talking just like this and her mouth was moving but I wasn't listening, I was thinking about the next e-mail or the next product or the next thing that I had to do with my business.

And it got so bad at one point April called me, she was just like, "You're thinking about your business right now, aren't you?" And I was like, "No." So she was like, "Okay, what did I just say?"

And I was like, "You're thinking about your business right now, aren't you?" And that was not a good, I mean the couch was not very warm that night. But it was good that she called me out, I'm so thankful for her because she does that, she keeps me on track. And what came out of that was we need the boundaries.

We needed actual time boundaries, even though I had "escaped" the 9 to 5, I still needed some hours to mentally check in to what I needed to do and check out of that work, so that I could check in with my wife and then later my family, so I'm very thankful we had that conversation at that point in time because April was pregnant and we were going to have kids.

And how many times do we see people on their devices today or working when their kids are like, "Daddy, daddy I have something to show you," they are like, "No, no, let me finish this first." No, that's not okay. So I've learned and I am very thankful that April had set me straight early on with that.

But of course, then we have kids and sleep schedules are just insane when you have kids, because you have no idea what's going on and you're just sleeping whenever you can and so that was tough for both me and April and I'm thankful that I was there at home to support her through the entire day to relieve her and vice versa, but still it's just tough and I think once the kids got into a regular sleeping schedule, a year after they were born, then it became sort of regular again.

But then I started to shift thanks to our good friend Hal Elrod from The Miracle Morning, he sent me a couple of copies of his book The Miracle Morning when I was engaged and I looked at the book and I just laughed, I was before 5 am, like no way, I just put him on the shelf.

But then I started listening to a lot of podcasts like Tim Ferriss and just all these— Tim is great because he asks a lot of people who are on a show like, "Tell me about your routines, tell me about your rituals," and every single successful person on the show is talking about their morning routine and how important their morning routine was and I was like, "A morning routine?

I'm a night guy but all these people that I really respect are doing it so let me try it out and experiment." And I pulled up the book, I read it, so I started experimenting with it and after 2 weeks I was a morning guy. I would wake up at 4 am, work on myself before I had to work on anybody else.

That meant meditation, journaling, exercise, affirmations, visualizations and those kinds of things, a little bit of reading and then by 7 am when the kids and my wife got up, I would already accomplish so much that if I didn't do anything else in the day, I'd still be happy. But of course, those little wins lead to bigger ones and you just accomplish so much more that way.

I've had to learn how to say no to certain shows that are on at night so that I can go to bed earlier, but the benefit of sleeping earlier and sleeping well, thanks to Sleep Smarter by the way and The Miracle Morning has been just huge for me and my creativity. So ever since then, I've learned to have more of a morning routine and then still less work in the afternoon because the kids were at home.

But now the kids are both in school so again it's all about adjusting and checking in with my wife to make sure we're still in alignment because things change, they change and it's just about adaptability, communication and that's been really good for both of us.

Shawn Stevenson: Awesome, man, thank you for sharing that, because there's such a huge tool to success in anything, is just the ability to be flexible. And because things are going to happen, like life is—

The only consistent thing in life is change, you know and so just being able to pivot into and to adjust, you don't have to necessarily change the direction that you're going, or the ultimate outcome that you want, but being able to be flexible is definitely going to help you to get there eventually. So man, thank you for sharing that. Listen, so first of all where can people find the book? Are there any bonuses?

Pat Flynn: Yeah, actually in the book there's a bonus companion course that'll give you some more in-depth knowledge about the different strategies and exercises, at the end of each chapter there are also exercises so you can actually do the things that I'm teaching you.

And I'm just so thankful because I've written 3 books, this one is getting, I mean, I think they're all great but this one is getting by far the biggest response, people actually implementing and doing things right away and getting results immediately, which is just so cool.

I think this is going to be a big book in a lot of people's bookshelves hopefully and thank you for allowing me to come on here and share it with your audience. You can get it on Amazon obviously but Barnes and Noble as well.

I think at some point it will be available at airports apparently which is kind of cool because this is still a self-published book, self-published but working with a team or a new type publishing to help distribute it into those places, so very cool.

I was at Barnes and Noble near where I live in San Diego to go in and I just wanted to see the book there and check it out, so one thing that you can do, and I don't know if you've done this already, but if you find your book at Barnes and Noble you can ask them to sign it and they'll put a little sticker on it that says like autographed copy, right.

So I was like, "Okay, I'm just going to sign a couple of copies there." And I go, I find my book and I open it and there's a note inside and I'm like, okay, and I read the note and it's from my dad, and it says, "I highly recommend this book, this is not a biased opinion. Love, Pat's dad John".

And I was like, "Holy crap, this is a crazy." And so my dad had gotten into Barnes and Noble, wrote a little note in there to help me sell my book and then I saw that and I read it and that was really quite a picture. And I signed the book and I put it back with the note on the shelf, so that was really cool moment for me.

But yeah, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, check it out, thank you so much just, it's a labor of love and I think that this is what business and relationship should be about, from this day forward.

Shawn Stevenson: Awesome, thank you man. I appreciate you so much and I get to talk to you pretty much every week and you continue to inspire me.

And I love the fact that again, you ask questions and you test things and you share with all of us, so you're somebody who inspires me and I wanted to be able to bring you on here to provide some inspiration, but also some tools, there is so many tools in this book and I am just super happy for you, men, thank you.

Pat Flynn: Thanks man, I appreciate you.

Shawn Stevenson: Awesome. Everybody, thank you so much for tuning into the show today. Listen, the time is now, truly to take action and to cultivate stronger relationships to the degree that you're creating superfans.

So this could be in your current place of employment. Today I just saw a story where a guy was, he was going through a rough time but nobody knew this and he was traveling through the airport and this was Christmas Eve, he was trying to get home to his family.

He stopped to get some coffee and the woman at the counter instead of saying, "Can I take your order" or, "What would you like," she said, "Hi My name is Susan, what's your name?"

And he was like, "Oh this is weird," and he shared his name. And they had this really interesting interaction she said, "So, where are you going? Where are you flying to?" He said, "Cleveland."

She was like, "You're going to spend time with your family for the holidays, aren't you? "He was like, "Yeah, I am." But it just continued to throw him off a little bit that she was so interested in him and engaged with who he is, and his wellbeing.

Anyways, he got his coffee, she handed it to him, she said, "Listen, after you get home, experience your experiences and come back to this airport, I want to hear all about how your holiday went with your family. So please make sure to come by and say hi."

And he just was like blown away, and he just started walking away and he stopped, and he was like, "You know what, I got to ask her a question." He went back and asked her, "What makes you so happy to connect with people and just through giving them coffee and selling coffee?" She was like, "No, no," and she stopped him and she said, "I don't serve coffee, I pour people happiness every single day."

And in that moment he realizes really the level that we can take things to even if we're "just serving people coffee" we can create superfans.

So no matter what business you're in, no matter what career, no matter what job, whether you're an entrepreneur or not, these tools will help you to create a better life and that's what it's really all about, for yourself and for other people around you.

So make sure to check out Pat's book "Superfans" everywhere books are sold, and we've got some crazy stuff coming up for you so make sure to stay tuned. And whatever you're a superfan of, I want to post below this video if you're watching on YouTube, tell me what you're a superfan of. I'm a superfan of Marvel, the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Pat is a superfan of "Back to The Future".

What are you a superfan of? Let me know in the comments below and me and Pat will check it out.

Oh, and before I let you go, if you are feeling a pull to make a pivot in the work that you're doing and you are interested in health and wellness and you are interested in helping other people to improve their health and wellness, then this is the time to make that pivot because right now, being in this in this field of health and wellness we need good people, because there are so many people who need help right now and this is why it's in the top 5 fastest growing business, is being involved in the health and wellness industry specifically as a health coach.

And so if you feel the draw to do that, I'm going to have a special live meet up coming up here in just a couple of weeks, but you can join from anywhere, no matter where you are, you can join online and hang out with me live and I'm going to be sharing with you guys really a full proof system is 5 specific steps in order for you to start to create a life that you truly love as a health coach. 5 of the things that I did personally to take me from just kind of getting by to really reaching and impacting the lives of a lot more people.

And again, we've got a lot of work to do, we've got a lot of people to help and serve, we need more good people and so if you feel that call and that drive then come and hang out with me live, you just got to go to, so it's together as one word, lovelife. So that's You can hang out with me live, it's coming up soon so make sure to pop over there grab a seat to be able to participate in that and hang out.

Alright, so again, whatever you're a superfan of, please let me know in the comment section below, again Marvel, for Pat it's apparently Pokemon now too, you know, but whatever it is that you are really a super fan of, I would love to know, so make sure to share it in the comment section below.

And again, we've got some powerhouse episodes coming your way, so make sure to be ready. Take care, have an amazing day and I'll talk with you soon.

And for more after the show, make sure to head over to, that's where you can find all of the show notes, you can find transcriptions, videos for each episode, and if you got a comment you can leave me a comment there as well.

And please make sure to head over to iTunes and leave us a rating to let everybody know that the show is awesome. And I appreciate that so much.

And take care, I promise to keep giving you more powerful, empowering, great content to transform your life. Thanks for tuning in.

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