Listen to my latest podcast episode:

TMHS 769: The Surprising Truth About Menopause & Lifestyle Changes for Menopause Symptoms – with Dr. Lisa Mosconi

TMHS 218: Demolish Fitness Myths & Sculpt Your Best Body with Morris Chestnut & Obi Obadike

For generations, many of us have aspired to be like the heroes and heroines we see on the big screen. The charisma, the confidence, and, of course, the incredible physiques have motivated people to hit the gym for decades.

Morris Chestnut is definitely on that list of favorite fit actors for millions of people. In his own words, getting in shape and staying in shape wasn’t that hard for him. But then something changed…

As Morris was busy doing his thing making movies and television shows, he noticed that the extra weight wasn’t hopping off of his frame like it used to. In fact, the weight snuck up on him so fast that he barely knew what hit him. And, as life would so poetically write it, this is when he gets a call for a big movie role where he needs to be in jaw-dropping shape. He needed an assist, big time! And this is where celebrity fitness trainer Obi Obadike steps on the scene.

In this episode you’re going to learn Morris and Obi’s story, and how they were able to transform Morris’ physique (and get just as many people talking about his body as the movie itself). Most importantly, you’re going to learn the valuable fitness lessons that anyone can use to break through and accomplish their fitness goals. They are excited to show you that this process of getting in incredible shape is simple, attainable, and even fun! Listen in as we breakdown the common fitness myths and provide you the tools you need to create the body and health that you deserve. Check out the video, but make sure to listen to the audio podcast for some of the extras to ensure you take things to a whole new level. Enjoy!

In this episode you’ll discover:

  • Which nutrient can protect your brain from the effects of sleep deprivation.
  • What the most important factor is in any diet that you choose.
  • How carbohydrate intake can affect water retention in the body.
  • What carbohydrate spillover is and how it impacts body fat.
  • How extra weight can creep up on you.
  • Why actors tend to get fat on set.
  • The most significant thing that a trainer has to establish with their client.
  • How weekend weight gain changed Morris’ perception about fitness.
  • Whether or not eating more smaller meals throughout the day accelerates fat loss.
  • What impact (if any) does eating carbs in the evening have on weight gain.
  • Why it’s actually encouraged for you to indulge in your favorite foods on The Cut program.
  • How dropping calories too low can sabotage your weight loss.
  • Why eating some smart carbs for dinner can actually help you sleep better.


Items mentioned in this episode include:

Thank you so much for checking out this episode of The Model Health Show. If you haven’t done so already, please take a minute and leave a quick rating and review of the show on Apple Podcast by clicking on the link below. It will help us to keep delivering life-changing information for you every week!


Shawn Stevenson:  Welcome to The Model Health Show. This is fitness and nutrition expert, Shawn Stevenson, here with my dancing- what kind of dancing is that? Co-host and producer of The Model Health Show, Jade Harrell. What's up, Jade?  
Jade Harrell:  What's up, Shawn? Welcome home. 
Shawn Stevenson:  I like that, you're going to sing, welcome me home.  
Jade Harrell:  That's right, that's what the dance was for. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Oh it's the 'Welcome Home Shawn' dance. 
Jade Harrell:  Yes. 
Shawn Stevenson:  How are you doing today? 
Jade Harrell:  Shawn, I am fantaspirational. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yes, alright I like where this is going. What does that mean? 
Jade Harrell:  That's right. That's right, I'm feeling so good and inspired. I'm so glad you're back, it's fantastic! 
Shawn Stevenson:  Thank you, thank you. I receive that. 
Jade Harrell:  Yes! 
Shawn Stevenson:  And you might be wondering what she means when she says 
I'm back. I was on the road for a little bit. 
Jade Harrell:  Forever! 
Shawn Stevenson:  It wasn't that long. 
Jade Harrell:  It was forever.  
Shawn Stevenson:  But I was taking care of some business, and also hooking up with some amazing people, which we have some of them on for you today, but also connecting with James Altucher which is the episode we just put out for you guys.  
The bonus episode every single month, we're going to put out a bonus episode for you the first Monday of every month. 
Jade Harrell:  Yes we are. 
Shawn Stevenson:  There's some bonus juice! Call it bonus juice. 
Jade Harrell:  You'd better be ready to drink it.  
Shawn Stevenson:  So James was phenomenal, it was incredible hanging out with him and connecting with him. Just so hyper-intelligent. 
Jade Harrell:  Right. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Scary smart guy who's just accomplished so much, and those are the kinds of people we want to learn from. Also learn from their mistakes.  
Jade Harrell:  Right. 
Shawn Stevenson:  He's like the master of mistakes, he's made a lot. 
Jade Harrell:  And he's so okay with it. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And one of the stories that he shared was he amassed this fortune, like he was one of the first guys building websites for these big corporations.  
He had this light bulb moment like, 'You know what? Every corporation in the world needs a website.' This was like '98, '97, right? 
And I remember I was using the Dewey Decimal System still at my university. But then he got this insight and he started making websites for like Death Row Records, right? 
Jade Harrell:  Exactly, right.  
Shawn Stevenson:  Bad Boy Entertainment. He's just like, "Yeah I look the part, right?" Like no, no you don't.  
Jade Harrell:  Yeah but that was so cool how he brought that as well, the dynamic culture and color of the industry. 
Shawn Stevenson:  That's what it's really about, too. 
Jade Harrell:  It's taking the industry to corporate companies too who were like, "We want it, too." 
Shawn Stevenson:  Exactly, fulfilling a need, you know? And because of that he amassed a large amount of wealth. I shared in the show when he talks about how much money he made and how he got rid of it so quickly, I would think about him buying a house, and then he's like, 'You know what? I'll go ahead and buy this house next door, too just in case I want to borrow some ketchup.' 
Jade Harrell:  Just give me the block. 
Shawn Stevenson:  'Oh we're out of ketchup, hunny.' 'Just go next door. Go to the house next door and ask yourself to borrow some ketchup.' 
Jade Harrell:  Exactly, there were no limits or boundaries and he felt unirked. There was nothing there to ground him. It was such a powerful story, I really needed to hear that. I really appreciate that one. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Oh my goodness, you just said it. It was like that grounding formula that he amassed through his experience which was making sure that he's taking care of himself every single day physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually to keep him grounded so that when you do traverse- because when you start to get out of where you are, even specifically we were talking about financially, it begins to- a lot of us feel that if we just get this money it'll solve our problems. 
Jade Harrell:  Exactly. 
Shawn Stevenson:  But he highlighted an important point that money just magnifies who you are. So it's like being able to change and evolve your character as you evolve, so that you can sustain and grow that, and be able to give back.  
And you see that today with him as well, is that he's giving so much. He's really impacting a lot of people's lives and changing paradigms. 
Jade Harrell:  For sure and he gives it away. What I love is that he says, "I'm still evolving. I'm still blowing it here and there, but I'm constantly evolving and improving." 
Shawn Stevenson:  Exactly. And so that was just part of the trip, and also I connected with some incredible guys that we have on for you today. And the story is just amazing in how they got together, and we're actually going to hear that story today.  
But before we talk about them and get to our special guests, I want to give a quick shout-out to our show sponsor, Organifi. Now you already know that I love their green juice supplement that I of course brought it with me when I was on the road, their little go-packs to get my superfood goodness in.  
But something else that they have is this organic super critical extract of turmeric. And here's one of the reasons that I love it and I travel with this one as well, is that there was a study published in the June, 2006 issue of Life Enhancement, and scientists found that turmeric- specifically curcumin, that compound found in turmeric, protected mice which were kept awake for 72 hours. 
So they sleep deprived them pretty dramatically, against symptoms of sleep deprivation such as impaired locomotive activity, memory dysfunction, weight gain, and depression. Like all of those things. 
Jade Harrell:  Sound familiar?  
Shawn Stevenson:  Right. All of those things come in conglomeration with sleep deprivation. Even just a day, this stretched out significantly, and to see that this was protecting them? Wow, how powerful is that?  
But this is not giving you an out, alright? 
Jade Harrell:  No! 
Shawn Stevenson:  This isn't saying just go and get yourself messed up for the next 36 hours, just take some turmeric, it's going to be all good. 
Jade Harrell:  Exactly. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And here's another important part, too. Is that the group that received the curcumin treatment that was before the sleep deprivation period showed a significant decrease in the anxiety like behaviors and oxidative stress that was caused by the lack of sleep. 
And they also showed that improvement in all the things that we talked about, or defense against those things. 
Jade Harrell:  By getting ahead of it, by having that in place already. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Exactly, exactly. So we're using it preventative, right? Being proactive with this kind of stuff so your brain is already protected.  
Jade Harrell:  Promaintenance.  
Shawn Stevenson:  So this is something that I do have on a regular basis as well. I tend to have this along with my breakfast a lot of times, so make sure to check this one out too. This is called Daily Turmeric, alright? So head over to and you're going to get 20% off. 
Jade Harrell:  Bang! Bang, bang, bang, bang. 
Shawn Stevenson:  20%. 
Jade Harrell:  Yes. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Bang, bang. That's like Pops from The Wayans Brothers Show. 
Jade Harrell:  That's what came to mind. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Also of course 'Friday,' which apparently they're going to do a new one. 
Jade Harrell:  That's what I heard. 
Shawn Stevenson:  But they keep saying that stuff over and over again. Shout-out to seeing the bootleg version of 'Friday,' it was my very first bootleg movie in high school. 
Jade Harrell:  It's bootleg, designed for bootleg. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So inappropriate. It was after school, it was one of those cool teachers, right? The cool teachers, they had the TV set up in one of the rooms after school and somebody had the bootleg in their book bag.  
Jade Harrell:  Oh fun! 
Shawn Stevenson:  Shout-out to our interesting childhoods. 
Jade Harrell:  Childhood corruption. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Childhood corruption. 
Jade Harrell:  That's what I got.  
Shawn Stevenson:  Make it sound like we was like robbing banks. "Ah see? We're going to watch 'Friday,' see? We're going to rob this bank, see?" Alright. 
Jade Harrell:  "Bring over that bootleg, see? Bring in the bootleg, see?" 
Shawn Stevenson:  Also, also Onnit guys. This is a big part of my life, a big part of my family's lives.  
Jade Harrell:  Your co-host. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Onnit products- yes of course. So make sure that you're on it. And post-workout, this is my jam right now, is the Recovery Protein from Onnit. And so this has a really unique formula where they're utilizing of course the hemp protein, they're utilizing colostrum which has every polysaccharide, every essential amino acid, every essential fatty acid. It's a complete food. 
Then of course the BCAAs which we did an episode talking about the importance of that pre-workout. In the episode we did pre-workout, intra-workout, post-workout, and we'll put that in the show notes. Very, very important. 
But before I even did that episode or planned on it, because I wanted to incorporate the BCAAs more into my regimen, they were formulating this product. And I was just pumped when it came out. 
So that's a big, big go-to for me today as well as the MCT oil that they have, the medium-chain triglycerides which are fats that are important for the support of your brain and your nervous system.  
You need- deeply, deeply need these medium-chain triglycerides. It's one of the big deficiencies in our world today. And the reason I love Onnit's products is that they make these emulsified MCT oils that are like creamers for your coffee or your tea. You're over there smacking your lips. 
Jade Harrell:  Did you hear that? 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah. Hit it hard.  
Jade Harrell:  That's what I thought, I was like, "Yeah because that's it, that's it." 
Shawn Stevenson:  So I love the strawberry emulsified oil that goes into my Lion's Mane tea, or today I had Cordyceps Tea. And my wife, she loves the vanilla that she puts into her mushroom coffee. You know she likes the Chaga Cordyceps coffee. 
Jade Harrell:  And my kids love the strawberry almond milk that we make with it. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Oh fantastique! 
Jade Harrell:  Fantastique! 
Shawn Stevenson:  I'm going to hit you with that emoji- the fantastic emoji right there. So guys, make sure to head over there and check them out as well. and now let's get to the iTunes review of the week.  
Jade Harrell:  Absolutely. This one's great, five stars from 1948MattAKASteeze.  'The show I can't stop listening to. Dear Shawn, your show is my cup of coffee in the morning. Every night I can't wait to go to bed so I can wake up bright and early, fuel my body with fresh water, and go on my morning walk while listening to your show.  
I have listened to all of your episodes and try to take as many notes as possible. Your show is a part of my daily routine and I never allow anything to get in the way of me pressing play.  
I'm so thankful that you have helped create a better and much more healthier lifestyle for me. If your show were on a CD, all of my copies would most likely be scratched to a point where you would think it were a toy for a cat.  
I listen to you and repeat episodes all the time because there's so much information, it's impossible for you to catch everything for one listen. You are truly a life changer and I will continue to share and boast about your podcast to everyone I talk to. 
Thanks for being a coach and life changer through our speakers and headphones. Your friend, Matt. S1-948 Apparel, Beachwood, Ohio. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Matt, you are family. Thank you so much for sharing that review. That was so good, so powerful on so many different levels, and I'm just truly grateful for that. 
Jade Harrell:  That was so vivid and took us there with the cat scratch. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Oh my goodness, and then I went back to like, 'When's the last time I even seen a CD?' 
Jade Harrell:  That's right, and when you look at it and it looks like that, you know it's done. 'Why isn't this playing? Oh I see, someone put scouring pads on the back of it.' Overplayed. I'm so glad he's taking it in like that. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah absolutely, so thank you so much. And everybody, thank you for leaving these reviews over in iTunes. Truly, truly do appreciate it. And as well, make sure if you haven't left a review, head over and leave the review, but make sure you're subscribed to the show. Make sure you head over to iTunes and subscribe to the podcast or whatever app you're listening to it on whether it's Stitcher, or SoundCloud, make sure you hit the subscribe button so that you stay up to date with all of the shows. We truly, truly appreciate that, and on that note let's get to our special guests.  
Jade Harrell:  Can you hear that? It's my heart. It's thumping.  
Shawn Stevenson:  Calm down. Bring it down. 
Jade Harrell:  I'm trying! 
Shawn Stevenson:  Bring it down. When I was out in New York City I hung out with some new friends. Obi Obadike, fitness celebrity trainer- stop hitting on your heart. And the Hollywood movie star, Morris Chestnut, right? So these guys are incredible, Jade's over here holding it in. Keep it held in. 
Jade Harrell:  Just pick me up off the floor. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Keep it held in.  
Jade Harrell:  So not only you said Morris Chestnut, but the guy behind the chest of the Morris Chestnut.  
Shawn Stevenson:  Yes. 
Jade Harrell:  You see what I'm saying? 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yes, his trainer Obi.  
Jade Harrell:  Is it warm in here to you? I'm sorry. 
Shawn Stevenson:  No I'm good actually. 
Jade Harrell:  I need water. 
Shawn Stevenson:  I'm good. So these guys are just absolutely incredible human beings, and they put together a phenomenal book called 'The Cut' that's really walking people through step-by-step how to get from A to Z with your fitness, and they're doing it with a real purpose, right? 
It's not- because there's a lot of celebrities that will throw their name onto something, and just kind of walk away and see what happens. But Morris is invested in this. He saw it transform his life, and he got on, and he contributed to the book, and he's also there doing- like they're putting in some work getting in the word. 
And so when we hung out, this was actually they had just left the Dr. Oz Show and Wendy Williams, and they came to hang out for The Model Health Show, for you guys. 
Jade Harrell:  That's right. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Because that's how valuable you are. So please understand, just keep demanding this information, and sharing this with your friends and family, and we're going to keep changing culture. 
And so I wanted to bring on somebody with a different perspective on carb intake. You know we do a lot of shows that focus on a lower carb approach, ketogenic diets we've talked about several times on the show, and we will continue to do that because of all the healing benefits.  
However, I wanted to bring on somebody with a different perspective on carb intake that also has outstanding results.  
Jade Harrell:  Yeah. 
Shawn Stevenson:  That's the key. And Obi, he's been a trainer for- man I mean he got into this field just about the same time I did. So he's somewhere around seventeen years, right? He's worked with so many celebrities, so he's got these great movie screen bodies, but also the everyday person as well.  
Jade Harrell:  Yeah but that's key. Always talk about the inner us as a component. That's key. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And so I wanted to bring on somebody that had a different perspective on that because we have to really understand that whatever approach you're taking, the real key here is it's about feeling satiated. It's about feeling strong in your own body. Whether it's low-carb, nocarb, higher-carb, just smart-carbs; whatever term you want to give yourself, the carbs are not the enemy. 
When we're talking about losing weight or getting body fat off of your frame, it's a whole lot more difficult if you're hungry all the time. So you have to do the right thing for you so that you can actually do the program. Because all of these different programs, they would say like in parentheses, 'With a calorie restricted diet.' 
Jade Harrell:  Right. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Right? And so we also on the show, we don't really even focus on the calories. It's the constructs, the content of those calories, and making sure again that they're providing you with real nutrition. It's not just this whole thing of- I give this example because I see this all the time, these 200-calorie snack cookies. 
Right? That's going to impact your metabolism, your hormones, your neurotransmitters way differently than 200 calories of brussel sprouts, right? 
Jade Harrell:  For sure. 
Shawn Stevenson:  It just impacts your body in a totally different way. And so we need to understand that coming out of the gate.  
And so before we get to the interview with Obi and Morris, I just want to touch on really quickly why this is even a concern. Why are people so afraid of carbs today? And there's justification for it for sure.  
It's because you just don't want to overdo it with the carbs. You want to have the right carb intake for you, these carbohydrates. And so even the name, 'carbohydrate.' Carbo. Hydrate. 
Jade Harrell:  Hydrate. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So these hold fluid in your tissue, so basically every gram of carb is going to hold about four grams of water in your tissues.  
Jade Harrell:  Whoa, that's cool right there, Shawn. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So that's one of the benefits that people see when they're pulling out the carbohydrate intake and lowering that, is that they're not carrying so much water weight around, they're not retaining as much water.  
Jade Harrell:  That's not hot. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Now also we look at something called carbohydrate spillover, and this is something that I've talked about on past episodes multiple times, but it definitely deserves to be restated again and again.  
So when you're consuming carbohydrates, and we'll use the example of- just because Homer Simpson just popped into my mind. Donuts! We'll use the example of donuts, but we're going to make them gluten free, alright so we'll eat some gluten free donuts. Still a donut! 
Jade Harrell:  Yeah it still probably has sugar. 
Shawn Stevenson:  You're not going to get the lectins or whatever, or some of the gut damage, but you can still get some gut dysbiosis but that's a whole other thing. 
Jade Harrell:  Alright. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Got off track there. Because it's still a donut, guys.  
Jade Harrell:  But yeah, let's get- Homer. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So we're eating, we're doing the donut, right? So you're going through your day and you've been pretty low-carb thus far. So your muscle glycogen is depleted, right? So when you eat this donut, first thing that's going to happen is it's going to fill up your muscle glycogen. We'll just say maybe you did a little bit of cardio earlier in the day, so you've depleted your muscle glycogen.  
Alright so the donut is going to fill up that muscle glycogen, then you said, "You know what? I'm just going to have two. Everything is better in pairs, right? This donut doesn't want to be by itself in my belly." 
Jade Harrell:  That's right. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So you eat the second donut, you have two donuts at one time, and so your muscle glycogen gets filled and your liver glycogen now- because your body in its infinite intelligence, it can have that glucose just kind of running around in your bloodstream because it's basically like little shards of glass. It's like it can start tearing up things.  
And this is what people see when they're insulin resistant, and they have this glucose that's too high, is that you start to damage your circulatory system. And even too, especially smaller capillary areas, like you start to lose your vision with diabetes and conditions like that. Or your extremities, your toes. So you hear those stories and wonder why. That's why. 
So you've got to get this sugar out of your bloodstream. 
Jade Harrell:  Out of your liver. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So out of the blood. So again, your body first is going to fill up the muscle glycogen, then the reserves go to the liver, but now your liver glycogen is getting filled up as well. 
And so once that reaches capacity, your body again in its infinite intelligence cannot have glucose running around in your bloodstream. So now the excess glucose is now going to get converted by your liver into fat.  
Alright it's a process called lipogenesis. Creation of fat. And/or that's going to be packaged with a particle that gets created called VLDL or Very Low Dense 
Lipoprotein. The most dangerous form of what we call this cholesterol molecule. 
All of that was from consuming we'll just say- 
Jade Harrell:  We just made it a party. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Maybe we took four donuts.  
Jade Harrell:  Okay, I mean you know. 
Shawn Stevenson:  You know it's just they were gluten free. They were gluten free. 
Jade Harrell:  Right it's they wanted to have a donut party in here. You know? 
Shawn Stevenson:  Please understand we can do this with whether it's a donut or whether it's sweet potatoes. We can still overburden our body with glucose in different forms.  
Now the difference is it's more difficult to eat the sweet potato in that amount that you can gobble down donuts. The hot and fresh sign comes on. You can knock down probably half a dozen, right? And I've done it. I've done it, full disclosure. 
Jade Harrell:  Thank you for that, that comforts. 
Shawn Stevenson:  That was back in the day though, when I was sleepwalking.  
Jade Harrell:  I get that. I get that, I just had to know. 
Shawn Stevenson:  I was on my zombie time. But when you wake up to this you understand because it's a real food it's more difficult for your body to push over that satiety button that it's going to hit with a real  food source. 
So this is why at the end of the day it's important to modulate your carbs and get in the right amount for you. You don't want to overdo it, but also you don't want to be afraid of carbohydrates either. If that's what fits into your paradigm that keeps you satiated, strong, happy, and fulfilling your goals.  
Alright so this is why again, I'm very excited to bring on Obi Obadike, fitness celebrity trainer, and the one and only Hollywood heartthrob, Morris Chestnut. 
Jade Harrell:  That's right. Not more excited than me.  
Shawn Stevenson:  So check this out. Morris Chestnut has enjoyed tremendous critical and commercial success as a film and television star. He's best known for his roles in Boyz n the Hood, The Brothers, Think Like a Man, The Best Man, The Best Man Holiday, and The Perfect Guy. He also stars in the title role for Fox's TV series, Rosewood. 
And Obi Obadike is a fitness celebrity, and a nutrition expert who has trained some of the most influential celebrities in the world. One of the top ten most influential fitness experts on the web, Obi is a co-host of Trinity Broadcast Networks, and Hope Channel's Lifestyle Magazine, and Spike TV's Sweat Inc. with Jillian Michaels. He was named one of the top fifty fittest men by in 2016. 
And I'd like to welcome to The Model Health Show Obi and Morris. How are you doing today, guys? 
Obi Obadike:  Thanks man. 
Morris Chestnut:  Thank you for having us, appreciate it. 
Shawn Stevenson:  It's totally my pleasure. Totally my pleasure. So Obi, I'd like to start with you, man. What got you interested in this whole field of health and fitness in the first place? 
Obi Obadike:  I think it was playing sports. I'm an athlete, I still consider myself an athlete. I played basketball, track in high school. I played basketball and track in high school and college, and I ran track at Cal State Fullerton in college. I always thought I'd be a professional athlete, but I had injuries that kind of prevented me from getting there. I always feel I had the talent but it didn't happen.  
So fitness really found me through I felt like the better shape I was, the better athlete I'd be in my respective sports. And then I just got into the situation where I really started to fall in love in terms of seeing if I could use the knowledge that I gained when I was in high school and college- or actually college and then post-college, to see if I would be able to help people. 
I didn't really think that you could make a profession from those things. Like what am I going to do? Work out and be a trainer at L.A. Fitness or something? 
Shawn Stevenson:  What year was this? 
Obi Obadike:  It was probably about I would say 2002-2003 where I had a regular job, I was doing satellite engineering at this time which is kind of crazy, and I just really wanted to figure out how I can come in the game and create a name for myself and create influence. 
And so I felt like the best way that I could create a name was really getting into magazines and having people respect me for someone who takes his health and his fitness level seriously.  
Because unfortunately you can have all the knowledge in the world, all the degrees, but if you don't look the part, a lot of times people just kind of won't pay attention to you. So when I came in the industry probably around 2000, when I really got serious was probably about 2006-2007, and my focus was just trying to get on every magazine I could think of. Covers, articles, it didn't matter, and I was committed to doing it, and I was really blessed to have success as a writer.  
So not only- I was on like a trifecta effect. It was just like I was training some people, training celebrities, writing for magazines, and then getting all these magazine covers. So I just had my hand on so many different things. You know and then everything just kind of took off from there. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Perfect man. So you stacked conditions in your favor. 
Obi Obadike:  Absolutely. I think that the thing about it is that if you really want to be influential, you really want to have your finger on a lot of different things whether as a writer, whether as a motivational speaker, whether if you have the opportunity to host a show. All those different platforms will help with the influence. 
And then if you truly are genuine on that you really want to help people- because a lot of people out there that are in shape and fit, but really it's a lot of narcissism. You're posting ten photos of yourself every single day as opposed to do you really want to help people or is this really all about you? 
And for me, if you look at my page, I probably post more memes than pictures- I've got advisors telling me, "You've got to post more pictures yourself, more pictures of yourself," and I'm just like, "Arrggh." So I'm kind of like- 
Shawn Stevenson:  It's how can you serve? 
Obi Obadike:  How can I serve, without a doubt, but still getting the message about- because people still are motivated by that image. Like being fit, right? 
Shawn Stevenson:  Of course, I totally understand.  
Obi Obadike:  So I fight that because initially I don't want to put that out there, but people still want to see that you're in shape.  
Shawn Stevenson:  I think that that's how you guys actually connected. So can you tell us about that? How did you partner up with him? First of all, I've got to say this. You're well-noted for being one of the fittest guys in Hollywood, but then you ran into a little kind of downslide for a while.  
Morris Chestnut:  Yes, yes. I had been- sometimes I'd been on a project, I would get in shape and then I would kind of go off the diet a little bit, and normally it wouldn't be hard for me to get ready to get back in shape. But so what happened, was I was in New York filming a TV show called Nurse Jackie, and it was cold- it was so cold. I'm from California, it was very cold that time of year, and I literally wouldn't walk out of my apartment to walk across the street to go to the gym that was literally right across the street, and I wouldn't go it was so cold. 
And just being in your forties, I'm in my forties and I was in my forties at the time, and the weight just creeps up on you. I was eating, I was eating bad food, and I wasn't working out at all.  
And then Malcolm Lee, the director of The Best Man, he called me and said, "Hey listen, we're going to do the sequel to The Best Man called The Best Man Holiday, I need you to be in shape." So I said, "Okay, okay." So I knew it was a challenge. 
So I happened to be on the phone with a mutual friend of ours, and we were potentially going to do some business together, and I was on their website, and I pulled up a picture- I knew I had to get in shape, and I was looking on their website, and I saw Obi.  
So I said, "So who's this dude on your website? He's ripped." And she's like- she told me about him and I said, "Well how old is he?" Because you know any cat in his twenties can be ripped. And she told me his age and I said, "Okay he does some stuff that I need to be down with." So that's how we came together. 
Shawn Stevenson:  That's incredible. That reminds me of my son. So he's in his teens, and it's just like you're a teenager, a six pack don't count yet. 
Morris Chestnut:  Exactly, exactly.  
Shawn Stevenson:  A six pack doesn't count on skinny guys. 
Morris Chestnut:  Exactly, exactly. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So you know, it was a really great story, and you guys kind of outlined that in the book in how you guys got connected. But there's a saying that you put in the book that 'actors get fat on set.' What does that mean? 
Morris Chestnut:  Well see the problem with- say for instance, I'll give an example. The show I'm doing now, Rosewood, the problem with movie sets is there's always food on set, and there's always tons of bad choices. We have this thing called craft service. Craft service is a dream table because it has literally every guilty pleasure you can think of. Twinkies, donuts, candy, and it's there all day every day. Potato chips, a million unhealthy choices. 
So an example of my day, when I get to work, say for instance 7:00, I get whatever I want from the catering truck. And it can also be bad. I can get French toast, or I can get the egg whites. I can get the pancake and the syrup, or I can get some asparagus and some chicken. But most of the time it's really hard to eat healthy, so I normally get the healthy choice. But then after breakfast we have craft service. 
So right after breakfast they put out all the donuts, whatever you want to eat is there. Then three hours into the work day we have what's called a snack. So they will bring like an upgraded snack. It could be chicken sliders, a lot of times it's like burritos. 
And so it's really very easy to gain weight on set because there's always food and there's always a lot of unhealthy choices.  
Shawn Stevenson:  So what was the approach you took with Morris? You know he mentioned the fact that he's into his forties now, metabolism has changed, so what did you do to change his perception that this was even possible to be in the kind of shape that you're in? How this got started?  
Obi Obadike:  Sure, I think that what I loved about really working with Morris was the fact that- I mean I don't want to say that I plotted him being in the worst shape of his life, but it was great selfishly for myself, because it was an opportunity for me to transform him. 
And then I even told him, I said, "Man people are going to talk about your physique. Just watch, just watch." And so I thought when we decided to work together, I think it was just he and I just- him having that trust with me that I'm going to take care of him and make sure that he gets in shape, and that I was committed to him.  
Because a lot of times you can work with someone, but you don't know if they're committed to you, you know what I mean? And I just thought it was a wonderful opportunity to work with him, particularly with this huge movie that he was associated with.  
But I also wanted to capture that story as well, just trying to figure out how can we capture that story because he's out of shape, he's got to look ripped. 
So anyway, in a nutshell he dropped 33 pounds in twelve weeks, he was following the program really from 'The Cut' in terms of the protocol which was I had him on a ten to twelve calorie per pound diet, he wasn't over 220 so ten to twelve calories per pound, if you are 220 pounds or less would work out for that.  
So I think he started off about 2,200 calories when we started, and after I think the first four weeks he dropped down to about 1,900 to 1,800. And then after week seven and week eight, he dropped about another 200 calories. And then the last four weeks, I think the lowest he was at was maybe 1,600 or 1,700 if I remember correctly.  
And my objective was really I wanted him to look like a superhero. I wanted people to just say, "Man, what the hell is he doing?" 
Shawn Stevenson:  Right. 
Obi Obadike:  And so it was funny because when we started- and you know sometimes people just when they work out and train, maybe they just don't touch on certain body parts or whatever. So when he started, he was struggling- I just think he hadn't done pull-ups in a while or whatever. 
Morris Chestnut:  Yeah, I had not. Yeah. 
Obi Obadike:  So initially he struggled with doing three to four pull-ups by himself, and he's a competitive guy because he played sports too so he was pissed. Like, "Damn I can't believe I can't do ten pull-ups. What the hell?!" You know? And then after like twelve weeks he was knocking them out, like four sets of twelve to fifteen like it was nothing.  
And so his strength increased, and there was accountability. Every Monday morning he would step on the scale, and we had funny moments with those. 
Morris Chestnut:  Yeah that was funny because at the time I was promoting movies. So I was working out with Obi, I was getting ready for The Best Man, but I was promoting this movie that I had with Halle Berry. So I'm working out with Obi Monday through Thursday, Monday through Friday, and then I would go on the weekends and do this press junket.  
And so- I'll never forget. So he would weigh me, I would get on the scale right after the workout on Thursday. Then I'd go on the press junket, on Monday- I'd come back on Monday mornings, he'd say, "How was your weekend?" I'm like, "It was good, man." "How did you eat? How was your diet?" "Oh it was good. I had a couple little things." And I would literally get on the scale and be five to seven pounds heavier. Over a weekend. It was crazy and it was really, really eye-opening to me because it was like the next time I had the fight with my mini bar, with my mini bar calling my name, I'd think about Obi putting me on the treadmill making me pay for it.  
But it was one of those things where I didn't realize how my weight fluctuated so drastically. I could look at a donut and gain two pounds, that's how I felt. And so yeah, it was just having that accountability to Obi, and just it also put a lot of emphasis on what I ate. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah, yeah and just from what I've seen in your guys' book is there wasn't as much struggle as you thought it would be. Because that's one of the things that I really promote, is that health does not equal suffering. Like those two things don't really go together. 
So getting kind of tapped in to some of these crazy things that people believe they have to do to get in shape, and that's what I'm really about, is like breaking down those crazy beliefs and changing people's paradigms. So I want to ask you guys about some of these fitness myths that you highlight in the book. 
Obi Obadike:  Sure. 
Morris Chestnut:  Alright. 
Shawn Stevenson:  One of them is that- and I've heard this 1,000 times too man. 
Obi Obadike:  Yeah I have an idea of what the question will be, but go ahead. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So this one is eating small days throughout the day will speed up your metabolism exponentially and helps speed up fat loss. 
Obi Obadike:  Right, well I think that's the biggest myth out there. It's been published in books, it's online. There was a time I even thought that, too. I raised my hand and I thought I believed it as well, too. But the science out there invalidates that, that you don't have to eat seven meals or eight meals a day and think that it's going to speed the rate of your metabolism. 
And so we wanted to educate people that, "Hey you don't have to- your meal frequency is not going to dictate the rate of your metabolism. At the end of the day it's really the quality of the calories and how many calories you're consuming that will be a big component to weight loss versus weight gain." 
So we really wanted to- unfortunately you have a lot of people out there man, that have a couple degrees, or maybe they're an expert, and they're just putting out a lot of misinformation. So we wanted to be honest with people and say, "Look this is the deal, this is what's correct. Don't believe what you see out there."  
And in the book we say, "Question everybody. Don't believe anybody." 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah please do, yeah.  
Obi Obadike:  "Do your own research." Because we're human, we're going to make mistakes. There's times where I've made a mistake in an article and said, "I'm sorry. I made a mistake. I should have done more research." And I think if people can be more honest with themselves when they make mistakes, then maybe we can minimize the misinformation that's out there. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Absolutely. You know and I want to share this. So this was a study conducted by the University of Warwick in the UK, and found that despite popular belief that eating multiple small meals throughout the day will help you lose weight, the frequency of meals does affect the calories we burn each day. So this has been confirmed.  
This was something I was taught in a university setting, in training as a strength and conditioning coach. And even these ideas if you don't eat a meal your metabolism is not on, or it's slowed down. If your metabolism is not on, you're dead. 
Obi Obadike:  You're dead, yeah absolutely.  
Shawn Stevenson:  Your metabolism is always working. But you said that perfect thing which is the quality of the calories that you consume. 
Obi Obadike:  Absolutely, yeah without a doubt. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So also, I want to talk about this other fitness myth that you talk about. So this one is eating carbs at night will make you gain weight. 
Obi Obadike:  Right. I think eating carbs at night, or eating at night period, either of those two people think that- I mean I don't know how many times I've heard someone say, "You know what? I've got to make sure I eat my food before 7:00, maybe 8:00 PM because I'm going to gain extra weight, an extra couple pounds tomorrow." 
Like and there was at times I thought that too. You know? I've made the mistake of thinking that, and then research was presented to me by someone who was smarter than me and said, "Dude Obi, this is the deal." And then you see research.  
I think there was research either published in the Journal of Obesity or whatever, where a group consumed 80% of their carbs late at night, and the other group consumed carbs in the daytime, and it was over like a six to eight week period, and the group that consumed 80% of their carbs late at night lost more weight than the group that consumed earlier in the day. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yes I saw that study. 
Obi Obadike:  So yeah, it doesn't- no, you know what I mean? Really at the end of the day it's the quality. Like what I really want to educate people is- what really irks me is every time I'm on TV, or anytime I see something, someone's always blaming carbs for their culprit of weight gain, and carbs is good for you. It's fuel. 
You know you don't want to mess with that in terms of- because it's going to affect your energy, how you're going to function throughout the day, it's going to affect the glucose in your brain. 
You know the American Dietetic Association, I believe they recommend a minimum of 135 grams of carbs per day just for basic energy functionality. So it's about the types of carbs, the healthy carbs that are out there such as the brown rice, the sweet potatoes, the oatmeal. These are things that he ate. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah what about the lower quality carbs? You mentioned the French toast and all that stuff. Don't you get to have some of that stuff every now and then though?  
Morris Chestnut:  Well yeah, see that's one thing about our diet. Well it's a program, a lifestyle program, a nutrition program. 
So yes, so we say- okay so have a strict diet Monday through Friday, and basically on Saturday you can have two cheat meals, and on Sunday you can have two cheat meals. But with those cheat meals, they're just cheat meals, they're not cheat days. 
And the portion control, you should have nothing larger than the palm of your hand.  
And so yes, it allows you to indulge. As a matter of fact, a lot of people think they need to starve, like you guys were talking about earlier, but the first- when we first started, remember I couldn't eat all that food. There was so much food, I couldn't even eat it. 
Shawn Stevenson:  That's called a high quality problem right there. 
Morris Chestnut:  Exactly, exactly. And so that's why- yeah so we'll allow you to eat and you can indulge. 
Shawn Stevenson:  I call it a treat meal. 
Morris Chestnut:  A treat meal, okay. 
Obi Obadike:  You know you call it a treat meal, we call it a cheat meal, and I think it's just- I don't think it's realistic that you can tell someone that they have to eat a certain way seven days a week. I don't think- most people aren't going to be successful. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah with all the goodness that's out there.   
Obi Obadike:  You know what I mean? And so we're just saying, "Look, you can still lose weight, you can still maintain your shape indulging, it's just understanding portion control, understanding how big the portion size should be. That's still going to allow you to get to your goals without derailing you from being successful." 
Shawn Stevenson:  Absolutely. One of the things I'm a big fan of is just upgrading the quality of those things. So even with the French toast, how can we improve on that? And one of the guests I had on, who actually is an author here as well, 'The Sweet Potato Diet.' And so he makes like sweet potato brownies. You know like upgrade the quality of those indulgences so that your body doesn't take potentially a bigger hit. 
And also you mentioned earlier about the quality of those calories. So I want to talk more about that, because a lot of people, they feel that in order to lose weight- and this is why some people don't even try in the first place, that they have to cut away so many calories. But if you cut your calories too low this can be a problem. 
Obi Obadike:  Well what I put in the book, what we put in the book, excuse me, was that at least in the research that I've read, is that if you are on a caloric diet that is lower than 1,200 calories, you typically will see your biggest RMR drop, which is your resting metabolic rate.  
So we're not trying to push 800 calories a day, 1,000 calories a day. I think the lowest calories we have were between maybe 1,200 and 1,250. That's a petite woman during the final four weeks of the twelve week program. Then after you get to your desired weight, then we tell you make the maintenance caloric program- maintenance caloric nutritional program you should be on.  
So we're not pushing these extreme low caloric diets because it's counter-productive in terms of losing weight. We don't believe that you should be hungry when you're trying to maintain your shape or lose weight. That's not fun, it's not sustainable, and it's not a lifestyle. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Right and also your body literally- our bodies are designed to survive. So that starvation program is going to kick in. 
Obi Obadike:  Exactly. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Reduce your metabolism, lower your thyroid function, and it's just not a smart idea. But through our evolution we do have these kind of feast and famish approach. So there are times that you can- and that's another great thing about things like carb cycling. 
Obi Obadike:  Sure. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And maybe going a little bit with less calories on one day, but then you've got to pay them back at some point as well to maintain your weight. 
Obi Obadike:  And the thing about it with this book is that all those things you just touched on absolutely you can do. I think for this book we wanted to make it so simple. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah, you guys did that.  
Obi Obadike:  I just did not want to complicate it. You know maybe the sequel we'll touch on that. But we really wanted to make this really, really simple for the person to just say, "Hey this is what you should get." The reason why we have the calories drop maybe between 100 to 250 calories every four weeks is typically, as you know, is that when you are on a diet or on a nutrition weight loss program, after week three or week four you typically will face a plateau. 
So we have the calories adjust accordingly to have you get past the normal plateau that you would be on if you're on a weight loss program. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And the great thing is because of what you're promoting, I love this that you guys are combining to really get this message out, something that was left on the table. We just thought calories were everything, but it's the quality of those calories so you still feel satiated. 
Obi Obadike:  It's the quality. Absolutely, without a doubt. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So just to go back really quickly, when we talked about eating carbs at night. So this was another study that I noted here. This looked at a group of young men and they looked at the effects that a high glycemic breakfast had and lunch compared to a high glycemic dinner.  
And so the boys who ate the high glycemic meals ate an astounding 83% more calories in twelve hours than the boys who had the higher carb in the evening. And also their overall glycemic load was smaller.  
Obi Obadike:  Smaller. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So eating a higher amount of carbs, especially in the earlier part of the day, can potentially stimulate your appetite in a way. So what you guys are sharing is spot on.  
One other thing- and I would love for you to touch on this because you mentioned the story about your wife. Another myth here. Weight training will make women bulk up. 
Morris Chestnut:  Yeah that's a good one. Yeah it will not make a woman bulk up. I mean because even if you look at- like you say, women don't have the testosterone- enough testosterone to have the ability to have bulky muscles. And that's why my wife, she never wanted to work out with weights, and she still doesn't. She says, "I don't want to get all bulky." 
And I want to say, "Baby you need to come to the gym because I've seen some guys in there working out ten hours a day, and it's hard for them to get bulky." But you know, and I understand that's one of the things with the book because I do understand when you go into some gyms and you see the guy in the corner loading up, grunting, and doing all this, it gets intimidating especially if you're a woman going into the gym. 
And so that's why with our book we have home workouts and gym- home exercises and gym exercises. And so that's just one of the things we wanted to bring. 
Obi Obadike:  Right, well the biggest thing I really wanted to touch on, I know we don't have much time, but is the real life people, real stories, real transformations.  
Morris Chestnut:  Yes. 
Obi Obadike:  Because we didn't want this book to be about how Morris Chestnut got in shape for a movie, and lost 33 pounds. We wanted it to be about everyday real people. So we did a focus group, nine men and nine women that went through the program over twelve weeks, and they transformed.  
We had two guys that were obese that we worked with for a year. Because you and I know you can't transform an obese person in twelve weeks. And one guy named Mike Hopper who lost 115 pounds in a year, and another guy named Rome Douglas, an ex-football player lost about 79 or 80 pounds in a year. And then the average of the people were within in that I think 25 to 35 pound range in terms of the transformation. 
We had a couple guys that lost 40 pounds in twelve weeks. So they're the faces of the book. They're the ones that make 'The Cut' alive. Without them there'd be no 'Cut.' And a lot of times you can put out a diet program and say, "Well this works." Well how do I know it works? Where's the proof? 
So we felt that we really wanted to have people identify with the average everyday person. Look at the back cover, look at their transformation, look at their stories, look at what they went through. And it's really very emotional connective stories that they really open up their vulnerabilities. 
Anytime you show your worst photo of yourself, and want people to connect with you, and have people inspired, it's a beautiful thing. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Absolutely. Final question, guys. What is the model that you guys are here to set with this book? What is the example that you want to set for our culture by putting this book out there?  
Morris Chestnut:  My thing is I want to set an example of this is a lifestyle. Because you know, you talk about diet, diet, diet. People call it a diet book, an exercise book, but it's really about a lifestyle and being committed to that lifestyle. 
So many people want all the time, they say, "Oh I'm going to diet for two weeks. I'm going to diet for a month." And they'll diet for two weeks, they'll diet for a month, but as soon as the clock ticks and that two weeks is up, and that month is up- 
Obi Obadike:  I'm out. 
Morris Chestnut:  They're out. They go back to eating, they go right back to eating everything. They say, "Well I lost the weight but I gained it back," and that's when people go up and down.  
So we're trying to convey and promote a healthy eating nutrition lifestyle- nutritious lifestyle. 
Obi Obadike:  Right, without a doubt.  
Shawn Stevenson:  Can you guys let everybody know where to pick up the book and where they can connect with you guys online? 
Obi Obadike:  You can pick it up at, you can pick it up on Amazon, and anywhere where books are sold. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Anywhere where books are sold. 
Obi Obadike:  Barnes and Noble. And it's really- I think at the end of the day, Morris was saying in other places is that if you make a commitment just give us twelve weeks, make a commitment to this book, and I guarantee you're going to see great results.  
Morris Chestnut:  You will see results, and I say you can get it anywhere where books are sold. Don't get it from Leroy in the parking lot.  
Shawn Stevenson:  The bootleg! 
Obi Obadike:  The bootleg version. 
Morris Chestnut:  Not out of Leroy's trunk. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Social media handles? 
Obi Obadike:  Social media, Obi_Obadike. If you just type in my name, it's going to come up because I think I've got the only unique name- I've got the most unique ethnic name out there. They're going to find me. You know? 
Morris Chestnut:  MorrisChestnutOfficial, Morris_Chestnut, and yeah those are it. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Perfect. Obi, Morris. Everybody, make sure to pick up the book. Take care. 
Obi Obadike:  Thanks a lot. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So that was Morris Chestnut and Obi Obadike, and I hope you got a lot of value out of that. We really touched on a lot of important fundamental mistakes that a lot of people make, you know? And it's like, it's not just doing the right thing, it's also being aware of the things that can set you up for failure and causing yourself more stress.  
So for me personally when I was working early on, I was taught that you need to have people to eat more meals, smaller meals throughout the day. And I would do this myself, but there's a lot of stress involved trying to do that for me personally. 
Some people thrived on that, and that's really what it's about, is making sure that your structure is something that works well with you as a unique individual. 
Jade Harrell:  Sure, sure. So that's one thing, and I think it's great that we're putting this in perspective because that helps a lot of us overcome going whatever direction that seems to be just the right thing to do on a general level.  
But how do we dial that in more specifically to figure out what is right for us? 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah you know this goes back to what we talked about at the beginning of the show, which is whatever is making you feel satisfied, strong, and happy. These are the core ingredients to a sustainable- not a diet but a lifestyle that you can sustain. If you're not happy, you're probably going to cheat, right? Cheat meals.  
If you're not feeling strong in your own body, there's this inherent weakness, you're probably not going to get up and take action for yourself. And if you're not satisfied chances are you're going to go ham on some ham. You're going to go ham on the donut that we talked about. 
Mmm, donut. 
Jade Harrell:  You know they put bacon on donuts now so it might even be a ham donut. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Oh there's bacon everything. Right, right! 
Jade Harrell:  You'll go ham on a ham donut.  
Shawn Stevenson:  A hamnut. A dome. 
Jade Harrell:  A hamnut. I like that, I love it. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Let's move on, let's move on. So if eating small meals throughout the day is something that does work for you, this isn't to say that that isn't true, that that isn't effective for you.  
But we're talking about the case of does this actually accelerate your metabolism, right? Does this speed up your metabolic rate to eat more times throughout the day? No it just doesn't. And if it does, it's so miniscule in the grand scheme of things that if your goal is weight loss, and it's creating a struggle point for you, you might want to consider checking out something else. 
Jade Harrell:  So can you clarify? Because what happens is we're looking for results many times, and then that affects our happiness. So we may think we're doing pretty good, and then oh no, the scale or the measuring tape doesn't show, and whatever that metric is, it's not a part of the equation of what will make our individualized program make sense. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So are you talking about if the metrics aren't showing how good you feel? Is that what you mean? 
Jade Harrell:  Yeah if you're feeling good- 
Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah this is important, this is very important because I just got this wonderful post from somebody who's in my program, in The Fat Loss Code. 
Jade Harrell:  Love that. 
Shawn Stevenson:  She showed her progress over the last couple of months, and she had no idea until she took those pictures. But the thing was, she was feeling good, right? And the progress will come, but also we cannot be reliant upon the scale as your sole guiding point- your North Star in life. 
Jade Harrell:  Your scale God. 'Oh great scale.' 
Shawn Stevenson:  So we want to look at what metrics are most important for us? So I would first encourage you to strive to feel better in your clothes. You know the difference when your pants- you've got to do the unbutton, right? After you're done eating you've got to do the unbutton.  
I remember my aunt would do this when I was a kid, I had no idea like what's that for. And I'd like see the top of the pantyhose and like, "What are you doing? What are you doing? 
Jade Harrell:  And you totally don't care who's around. 
Shawn Stevenson:  We just left the buffet, right. The button flies open, blakow, and there it is. 
Jade Harrell:  My uncle was like that. I was like, "At the table?" 
Shawn Stevenson:  But as you're going through your protocol, and your clothes fit better, and you can- and this is why pictures are valuable too because you see yourself consistently, you don't really see the progress.  
Because we have this residual self-image, it's something called a residual self-image, and when you can see a before and after right next to each other, and I promise you if you follow a program like what's in 'The Cut' for thirty days, sixty days, ninety days, and you take a picture at the beginning and after, and you follow that protocol, you're going to be shocked at the progress that you can make. 
Jade Harrell:  Okay. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And that's why I really love what they're doing. They made it very, very simple and easy to follow as well. And so I just want to put that out there with that, and also another metric that would be a little bit down further on a rung would be your waist management, right? 
So instead of weight management, waist management. Because that is an indicator when you're carrying more around the waist for insulin resistance. And so that sets off a slew of potential negative side effects, right? 
And it's an indicator when the waist starts to go down but the scale might not be moving. 
Jade Harrell:  Right. 
Shawn Stevenson:  That your metabolism is being healed. So this is going to set you up for a long term fat loss, long term weight loss, not just a temporary flash in the pan. 
Jade Harrell:  I think that really is what worked for me after I got angry at the scale and damaged it in frustration. It was the waist that remained to be a great guide. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Absolutely. And another thing that we talked about was eating at night, right? And carbs at night- and I remember when they were telling the story, and we were talking about that fitness myth, something popped up for me which was back in the day when I first met my wife, she was my girlfriend at the time, and every night- every single night without fail I'd eat two bowls of cereal. 
Jade Harrell:  Oh boy. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Organic cereal. 
Jade Harrell:  Okay, there you go. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Organic.  
Jade Harrell:  What is an organic cereal anyway? 
Shawn Stevenson:  That's when- again it was the paradigm. 'It's still cereal, bro.'  
Jade Harrell:  It's a grain. 
Shawn Stevenson:  But I'd eat this organic cereal, two bowls and a banana every night, and I was actually at my leanest. Without like extreme workouts, structure, diet, that whole thing. But I was right there around 7% body fat without really even trying as much as I would later on when I'd get down to around 4% or 5%.  
And in my opinion, again it's not- I'm not saying that to encourage you to do that, it's not particularly healthy in my opinion, but it was just a process. I was experimenting to find out what does work for this process. 
Jade Harrell:  Those were magic carbs. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And so eating late at night was something that I did on a consistent basis, so how is that even an issue that if you eat carbs at night you're going to gain more weight? And I shared a study in that interview, but I also wanted to share a little extra nugget with you. 
And so carbs, even a certain portion- again we're not talking about the Ding Dongs, the Hostess Ding Dongs, there's two in a pack. We're not talking about that, we're talking about high quality, real food based carbohydrates. Specifically like sweet potato for example that has the fiber, that has the vitamin A, that has all the micronutrients that are in there as well.  
So something like that, having a portion of that as part of your dinner can actually help you to sleep better. Now here's why. Carbs actually elevate your serotonin. 
Jade Harrell:  You know that. I could have told you that. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And serotonin is well known as this kind of feel good neurotransmitter, right? 
Jade Harrell:  That's right. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And so but it's also a precursor. It's a building block for melatonin, right? This glorified sleep hormone. So you can get a boost, but if you're going too far, it could be an issue.  
Now also, carbs reduce cortisol, right? It has an effect on reducing your stress. 
Jade Harrell:  So when they say 'stress eating,' there is a scientific- 
Shawn Stevenson:  This is why we go for the ice cream. 
Jade Harrell:  Exactly, exactly. 
Shawn Stevenson:  But it can be temporary. That's the problem that you can get into a vicious circle if you go too hard, right? So the eating smart, real food based carbohydrates, you get this benefit without the side effect. But if you go down, and you look down and you go to the Häagen-Dazs, and now- 
Jade Harrell:  Go down the strawberry sundae road. 
Shawn Stevenson:  You're looking down the empty barrel of an empty carton, it's gone. Like, 'I did it.' 
Jade Harrell:  'I put that all away.' 
Shawn Stevenson:  'What did I do?' 
Jade Harrell:  'I did that.'  
Shawn Stevenson:  I did that.  
Jade Harrell:  That just happened.  
Shawn Stevenson:  That can be a behavior pattern that's going to decrease cortisol- 
Jade Harrell:  It does, not can be, it will.  
Shawn Stevenson:  But then it's going to elevate cortisol because you're going to have a blood sugar spike and then a drop. You're going to go hypoglycemic, alright? So that's going to create stress. So again, doing this in a smart way. 
And so the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that carbohydrate intake makes tryptophan more bioavailable. Tryptophan. So that's another word you might hear in regards to food and sleepy time, right?  
So tryptophan is a precursor for serotonin which is a precursor for melatonin. 
Jade Harrell:  Melatonin, yes. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And carbohydrate helps to make tryptophan more bioavailable. 
Jade Harrell:  Okay. 
Shawn Stevenson:  So just some little things to add in here. Again many folks on low calorie or low carb diets sleep just fine, so we don't want to change that again, if you're getting results. However some people might be taking home that protocol and it's affecting their sleep and they're wondering why.  
Jade Harrell:  Right, they feel crummy. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And so you can maybe go keto throughout the day and then have a little bit of carbs if you're kind of doing a carb back loading model later on in the evening like for your dinner meal, if that's going to be what's- because sleep is more important than all this stuff. That's where your body is actually changing. So I just wanted to share that with you guys. 
Jade Harrell:  I'm so glad, grateful. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And how important and valuable this is to choose a protocol that works best for you. Whether it's a low carb approach, whether it's adding in some smart carbohydrates, or a certain amount of grams per day, but we just don't want to go too far.  
Jade Harrell:  Right. 
Shawn Stevenson:  Down the carb path. Alright? I'm thinking about Candyland, remember that game? 
Jade Harrell:  Slippery slope, right? Chutes and Ladders.  
Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah congratulations. When you win that, congratulations, you played yourself. So everybody, thank you so much for tuning into the show today. 
Jade Harrell:  Oh man, that was great. 
Shawn Stevenson:  I truly, truly do appreciate you, and we've got so many amazing shows coming up, some fantastic guests so make sure to stay tuned. And make sure to share this episode with your friends. Take care, have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon. 
And make sure for more after the show, you head over to, that's where you can find the show notes, and if you've got any questions or comments, make sure to let me know. And please head over to iTunes and give us a five star rating, and let everybody know that our show is awesome.  
Jade Harrell:  Yeah. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And you're loving it. 
Jade Harrell:  Yeah. 
Shawn Stevenson:  And I read all the comments, so please leave me a comment there, and take care everybody. I promise to keep giving you more powerful, empowering, great content to help transform your life. Thanks for tuning in.  

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  1. Thank You Shawn for this podcast. I wanted to ask a question about eating late before bed. You guys are saying that it doesnt matter but doesnt it lower the quality of your sleep because your body has to break down the food and doesnt have time to focus on what it should be doing, like renewing itself? Maybe you could share that research. Thank You


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