Listen to my latest podcast episode:

TMHS 770: Eat These 5 Foods to Live Longer! – with Dave Asprey

TMHS 611: Break Through Your Mental Barriers & Develop Radical Confidence – With Lisa Bilyeu

“Action is a great restorer and builder of confidence. Inaction is not only the result, but the cause, of fear.” – Normal Vincent Peale

Confidence is a key player in many areas of life, including reaching your fitness goals, having healthy relationships, and achieving growth in your career. But have you ever thought about where confidence comes from? Today you’re going to learn exactly what it takes to develop radical confidence that impacts every aspect of your life. 

Lisa Bilyeu is the co-founder of Quest Nutrition and Impact Theory. She is the host of the podcast, Women of Impact, and author of the book, Radical Confidence. On this episode of The Model Health Show, Lisa is here to share empowering tenets on cultivating confidence and how to eliminate excuses that are holding you back. You’re going to learn about how to handle fear, how to realistically reach your goals, and specific mindset shifts you can use to live a more authentic and fulfilling life. 

If you want to get honest with yourself and learn powerful tools for growth, Lisa’s insights will resonate with you. This interview contains empowering insights on redefining failure, cultivating a strong sense of self, and so much more. So listen in, take good notes, and enjoy this episode with Lisa Bilyeu! 

In this episode you’ll discover:

  • What radical confidence is. 
  • Why confidence is a byproduct and not a prerequisite. 
  • The relationship between confidence and competence. 
  • How to redefine failure. 
  • What it means to define your north star. 
  • How relying too heavily on gratitude can actually hold you back. 
  • What it means to become an excuse terminator. 
  • The importance of knowing yourself when you set goals. 
  • How to be the hero of your own life. 
  • An important distinction between confidence and validation. 
  • How to live in alignment with your purpose. 
  • The ritual that Lisa uses to cultivate confidence. 
  • How to get out of your own way to build confidence.

Items mentioned in this episode include:

Thank you so much for checking out this episode of The Model Health Show. If you haven’t done so already, please take a minute and leave a quick rating and review of the show on Apple Podcast by clicking on the link below. It will help us to keep delivering life-changing information for you every week!


SHAWN STEVENSON: Welcome to The Model Health Show, this is fitness and nutrition expert, Shawn Stevenson, and I'm so grateful for you tuning in with me today. Our lives are truly a result of our decisions, our decisions create our outcomes, but what's not often talked about is what's behind the decisions that we make. And our decisions are going to be based on our internal psychology, what we believe about ourselves and about the world around us determine the thoughts that we have, our beliefs, and of course, the decisions that we make. A lot of our decisions are based on our level of confidence. Confidence can be a killer, but it can also be something that sets us free to create, to explore, to achieve things that we might have thought were impossible for us. Our confident can be a catalyst for transformation. So, you've got two options here, kind of a fork in the road, often we come to with confidence being a killer, or confidence being a catalyst.


On this episode today, we're going to talk about one of the most important things in our lives again that's driving our decisions, and that factor is confidence, but not just any confidence, radical confidence. We've got somebody who's going to blow you away with this information, because what if we can cultivate more confidence in ourselves and also in our loved ones and our children to make choices that empower them, to make choices that help them to create the lives that they truly want to have, that we truly want to have. Oftentimes, we don't make those decisions because we're lacking confidence. Now, this isn't going to be based on some very loose-leaf paper, you remember loose leaf paper, we had the notebook paper, we could tear it out and then the loose-leaf paper, this is going to be a loose-leaf version of like, here's some floaty kind of things that might happen to work.


We're going to talk about real, tangible execution. And also, specific mindset shifts. And you're going to be able to look inside and see some things that are probably going to be very familiar. I know it happened to me during this interview and hearing her perspective really opened my eyes to some things that I kind of closed off in my own mind. So, we're going to talk about real, tangible things that we can do to up-level our level of confidence. And here's the thing again, when we're more confident, we're showing up differently in the world. And as you're going to hear today, this isn't about not having fear or not being cautious about things, it's about being empowered in our lives, and we need that today more than ever. Now, as my guest was walking out, she was sharing with me how she's been focused on sleep wellness like never before right now, and she's found some game-changing things that's been helping her to sleep.


One of those things is thermal regulation, there's a natural drop in our core body temperature at night to help to facilitate sleep. No matter what place on planet Earth you live, there's going to be a difference in temperature change even if it's -10 degrees outside during the day, it's going to be -20 at night. If it's 110 degrees during the day, it might be 100 degrees at night, there's going to be a difference in temperature change no matter where we are because the sun is no longer in the sky doing its sun thing, illuminating the environment, of course providing heat. Alright, so we evolved being exposed to these environmental cues. Today however, we can try to ignore those cues or force-feed the environment and dictate and change the temperature around us. And sometimes it's in ways that are not supportive of our sleep quality, because again, our bodies want to be in sync with the nocturnal and diurnal patterns of the world around us, again, that we've evolved having and have a natural drop in our core body temperature at night. This is just the way that humans and other species are wired up as well. And so, what we found out is that this drop in our core body temperature facilitates the release of certain enzymes that are involved in reparative processes that take place during sleep, the release of certain hormones and neurotransmitters that help to facilitate sleep and move us efficiently through our sleep cycles.


This natural process can be inhibited if our body temperature remains too high. In science today we're very much aware how temperature affects our sleep quality, but on the extreme end of the spectrum when we're talking about clinical insomnia, there is now a growing body of data showing that insomniacs... This is individuals with chronic sleep issues, and this is according to data published in the American Journal of Physiology, tend to have significantly warmer core body temperature in the evening when their body temperature should be decreasing. Something is an awry with that natural system.


So, doing things to help cool the environment and even our bedding, what we're sleeping in can have a huge impact on our sleep quality, so much so a brand-new sleep study was just published. And this was a three-week randomized, crossover study that had test participants sleep in their usual sheets that they sleep in in their bed, then for another week they were given general cotton sheets to sleep on, and then for another week, they were given thermo-regulating bamboo lyocell sheets from Ettitude to sleep on. The researchers used subjective and objective tracking for their sleep quality. 94% of the test participants felt that they had better sleep by sleeping on the thermo-regulating bamboo lyocell sheets from Ettitude, but objectively using sleep tracking devices, the researchers found that sleeping on those Ettitude sheets improved their sleep efficiency by 1.5%.


Now, what does that mean? That 1.5% increase in overall sleep efficiency equates to over seven more minutes of actual sleep during the night, which equates over the year to 43 hours of extra sleep per year by sleeping on thermo-regulating bamboo lyocell sheets from Ettitude. Alright, this is like game-changing, and it's something that you just do, it's not changing your world upside down, you're just sleeping on sleep supportive bedding. In addition, another result that they found was that people sleeping on the Ettitude sheets felt that their alertness improved by more than 25% the following day.


So many really remarkable things came from this new clinical study that was just published. But most importantly, it's understanding that our sleep environment really does matter, and these are things that we have some power over. Ettitude sheets are free from harmful chemicals, irritants, allergens. They're hypoallergenic. They're gentle on sensitive skin, anti-microbial, self-deodorizing, inhibiting the bacterial growth that's common with a lot of sheets that people, again, don't really think about. They're breathable, moisture-wicking, and also again, thermo-regulating, helping to... Some bedding is going to exacerbate that heating process and make the body overheat in a sense while we're sleeping, just kind of insulating and creating a little bit of a self-generated microwave in our bed by not allowing heat to be properly distributed and eliminated.


Now, what is bamboo lyocell? If you're thinking about cotton, for example, it consumes an inordinate amount of water. The toxic chemicals used for cotton is another big issue. But organic bamboo lyocell is remarkably softer to our skin than cotton. If you think about 1000 count Egyptian cotton, for example, like that high-end extreme luxury, a 300-count thread of bamboo lyocell is just as soft as that 1000 count Egyptian cotton. And here's the rub. Here's the benefit. It only utilizes about one-third the amount of water. Because again, cotton is one of those industries people don't really think a lot about: Toxic chemicals, extreme amount of water, that factory farming consciousness. Organic bamboo lyocell is setting a new bar. If you go to and use the code model15 at checkout, you'll get 15% off these luxurious Ettitude sheets. Plus, now this is very important, really hear me, they want to make sure that you love these sheets. If you don't, you can send them back. They're going to give you a 30-night sleep trial. Sleep on them. Dream on them. If you don't absolutely love these Ettitude sheets, you can send them back for a full refund.


But you're not going to want to do that. I'm telling you, it's one of those things where you experience... You slide into these sheets and you're just like... It takes you to another place. It's so wonderful. And again, backed by science, it's one of the things that we can do to invest in our sleep quality, our sleep sanctuary. I absolutely love these Ettitude sheets. And I'm going to get some for our special guest. After this show, today, right now, I'm going to order her some as a gift because I truly care about... And this is one of the things that I do for people that I care about; I get them gifts of wellness. I support their wellness. I support things like their sleep quality and movement and mobility and things like that. So, it's a great gift to give as well. And again, I highly recommend you pop over to Use the code model15 at checkout. That's, model15 at checkout for 15% off. Now, let's get to the Apple Podcast review of the week.


ITUNES REVIEW: Another five-star review titled “Overall Health” by SKR1226. “This is the best show for overall health information. As a nutritionist and fitness coach, the info you share is relatable to my clients. I can't get enough.”


SHAWN STEVENSON: So awesome, thank you so much for sharing your gift, and for sharing the information, sharing the love. It really does mean a lot. And thank you so much for leaving that review over on Apple Podcast. I appreciate it immensely. Now, let's get to our special guest and topic of the day. Lisa Bilyeu co-founded the billion-dollar brand, Quest Nutrition. Billion with a B, Quest Nutrition, and is the co-founder and president of Impact Theory Studios, a revolutionary digital-first studio that produces wildly entertaining original content focusing on themes of empowerment. Lisa has created an impressive slate of content that has been viewed over half a billion times and has built a global audience. This includes her hit digital series, Women of Impact, along with a plethora of content that Lisa oversees and helps to create. She's also just released her incredible new book, Radical Confidence. And again, this is a huge part of our lives, and the choices that we make. And so, this is a really important part of our psychology and also our personal development, the results that we're going to be getting as we're moving forward. Learning about this topic is super important. So, very grateful to jump in this conversation with the one and only, Lisa Bilyeu. Right now, we've got on the author of Radical Confidence. And she's rocking the resonance, is so beautiful. Lisa Bilyeu, welcome to The Model Health Show.


LISA BILYEU: Oh my God, such an honor to be here. I freaking adore you dude.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Stop, stop. Keep it coming. Keep it coming. I appreciate you so much, and I just got a chance, of course, to read your book, and it was a wonderful adventure. Your voice, your storytelling, as I was sharing before, it's so awesome. It was just such a fun book to read.


LISA BILYEU: Thank you.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Plus, nugget on top of nugget on top of nugget, and, you know, we were talking a little bit before the show about how important it is for our health to develop a sense of self-awareness. And also, confidence is a big part of what we do in our lives. So first I want to ask you about confidence itself.




SHAWN STEVENSON: Why do you think confidence is such a big part of our livelihood?


LISA BILYEU: I think we mistake confidence with like, we want to feel good. So, anything we want to start, I want the confidence. So, what they're really saying is, I want to feel really good about myself before I start this, because right now I'm really scared. And so, I think that that's what actually holds us back. And that was what I realized, is that we're so focused on feeling good about ourselves before we start something, that we end up getting stuck, and maybe we don't take that first step forward. So, the thing that I try to say is, think about confidence as the by-product. It's the end goal. So now instead of focusing on you want that first, I want people to ask themselves right now, what do you want confidence in?


'Cause that will help orient. That will help give someone that North Star, and you'll hear me talk about the North Star a lot, but that is your goal. So, if you say, I want confidence to start a YouTube channel. Okay, great. Now, the great news is you can actually start a YouTube channel and still feel badly about yourself, and still not know what you're doing, but what the point is, is that every day you can show up, you can try something new, and you can learn from it, so that eventually maybe you have a YouTube channel. And then once you have the YouTube channel, you keep doing it until you start to get good at it, once you start to get good at it, that's the competence part.


Then once you're competent, think about it, when you walk into the gym the first day, you're freaking scared, but after a year, you know how to pick up those weights, you know how to do the move, so you walk into the gym... Even just walking into the gym, you have more confidence, but that comes from knowing, understanding, learning, making mistakes, growing, adapting, and then the confidence is the end part. So, I think the best thing that ever happened to me was realizing, oh, stop focusing on confidence, you just want to feel good about yourself. But what I did and what I wrote about in the book, it's why I titled it Radical Confidence, 'cause that really does mean I put one foot and step in front of the other, even when I'm scared, even when I don't know what I'm doing, even when I'm actually inadequate it's not like, oh, but Lisa, you're just putting yourself down. No, no, I'm actually inadequate to doing this thing. But you know what, I'm not going to let that stop me. I'm going to learn, and then you come up with a blueprint, a step-by-step guide on how you're going to get there, because I don't know about your audience, and I don't know about you, but for me, that voice in my head can be crippling.


The negative voice is telling me, you’re no good, Lisa, you don't know what you're doing. Imposter syndrome alert. You're not as good as Tom. All of these thoughts are very real, and so do I let that negative voice hold me back or do I keep going? And the radical confidence is, I keep going and I figure it out along the way.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yes, it's so powerful and it's so logical too, that's the thing, we tend to have this like, I'm going to have the confidence and then do the thing, and the secret is the opposite, you develop the confidence by doing the thing, right, but this doesn't necessarily mean you haphazardly rush into things, this is why I love your approach as well, because it's just like, what can you do to put yourself in position to increase the odds of good things happening. But even still and I don't think a lot of people realize this, challenges are going to come up, stuff that you don't expect, you're going to have problems, you're going to have failures, but each and every one of these steps is going to help to build that confidence.


LISA BILYEU: Yeah, we all so also worry about failure. What does it mean about us? Someone else doesn't fail. So now maybe I'm a failure, and this is the thing I'm really trying to drum into, I think everything stems from how we think about things. And so, if you think that failing means you're a failure, you're going to feel worse about yourself, you're not going to try again, but if you just say, Failing actually means that I care enough about my life to give it a shot. Now, when you fail, you're not going to feel that emotional den that now is a negative thing on you, you're going to be like, oh, I really care about my life and that's why I did it. And so hopefully, the idea is, is that that mindset, that way of thinking is now helping you get back up so you can go again and try again. And so that is one thing of just how do we see failure? It's going to be imperative. And then one of the chapters in the book is when the sh*t hits the fan, wear goggles. And the whole point of that chapter is, we're so worried, oh my God is the sh*t going to hit the fan? Meaning, are we going to mess up, is failure about to happen and we so worry about it, that that's what we end up focusing on, and we spend so much time and energy focused on, oh my God, I hope we don't fail.


Now, the beautiful thing is that enlightened me was... I looked at every successful person on the planet and was like, oh, they've all failed. Great. So now maybe that means it's a steppingstone in the right direction, and so now when that happens, again, you don't think of it as being part of who you are, you think of it as being part of the process. And now if you can think of it as being part of the process, you're not spending a damn minute or energy worrying about it, what you're doing is you're thinking about if it does, what am I going to do? How am I going to show up? Am I going to let this bring me to my knees and stay there, or am I going to get back up? That's the wearing the goggles’ part, is how do I clean up when it happens. And now my time and energy is actually focused on getting back up instead of worrying about falling down.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yes, yes, let's get to this part, but we got to step back first because I want people to get to a place where they're even taking the action in the first place. And you really help to articulate that because when we start off and we are, again, we make the excuse that I'm not confident enough, I'm not good enough, you've got all of these reasons, well, what we justify as reasons, which they there are reasons sometimes, but most of the time, we limit ourselves in our capacity and our capabilities and our accomplishments, because we've got excuses on-demand, we've got all these on-demand videos today, and we've got these on-demand excuses. And just to share an example really quickly, my entire life up until the age of 17, when I left for college...


LISA BILYEU: Three years ago?




LISA BILYEU: You look so young. I'm sorry, I was just saying before the camera rolled.


SHAWN STEVENSON: So, I grew up in an environment where it was very volatile, violence, drug abuse, the whole thing, this was a daily exposure for me. And so constantly being in a position where I had to struggle, once I got diagnosed with a so-called incurable spinal condition, it gave me a permission slip to not struggle anymore, and now it became my excuse as to why I can't do anything. There were literally hundreds of thousands of things that I could actually do, but because of that permission slip, I used it as my excuse to do nothing. So, let's talk about our excuses and how to find a way past them.


LISA BILYEU: I love this, because here's the thing with excuses, to your point, most of the time they're real. I want to say a lot of the time. They're actually real. You have a... Damaged spine. It's like, well, you can't do all of these things. And that's a serious thing. So, same thing with my gut. I have had massive health issues. And every time something came up, I could use the reason that it was my gut. And I felt very validated in that reason. Now, here's the thing. I think the thing that I always go to is, does that serve you? What do you want in life? What is that goal? I even said earlier, what is your North Star? If you say your North Star is, for instance, Shawn, you want to change the face of health, and you want to empower people that no matter what health condition they're under, they can come through it with empowerment. Let's just say that's your goal. Okay. Now you've got your spine issue. You can say to yourself, well you can't get up out of bed. Remember, you got a spine issue. Now, that's very valid, but does that serve you and your goal? Yes, or no? If the answer is no, okay, cool. Is that... Are you okay with that? 'Cause here's the thing. It's your life. It is your life. The only thing that I try to empower you to do is take off your own blinders, 'cause we put those blinders to self-soothe, to make ourselves feel better about ourselves. And so, I get it.


For me, I don't beat myself up over the tactics I use to self-soothe. I just call myself on it. So, I don't beat myself up for doing it, I just make sure I don't stay there, because I know it doesn't serve the goal and the life I want. I spent a year, Shawn, as a stay-at-home wife, supporting my husband, putting clothes out for him, cooking for him, and I hated it. I hated it. Every day. It was not the life I wanted, it was not the dream I had, I wasn't enjoying it, it wasn't the life I wanted and... But every day, I felt like I needed the confidence to speak up and tell my husband I wasn't happy. Now, every time I went to do that, every time I thought I should, I was self-soothing. Now, the thing that I used was gratitude. Gratitude can be beautiful. It's like, oh my God, I've got a bad back, but at least you can walk. It's like we use the gratitude as a way to re-orient the... Maybe the negative feeling that we have to orient ourselves to maybe thinking positively. It's amazing.


The problem is, what I did, Shawn, is, year one, year two, year three, I was saying, you know what? I'm not really happy, but I'm really grateful to have a husband that loves me, a roof over my head. By year four, year five, year six, year seven, year eight, and I was utterly miserable, that gratitude piece was keeping me exactly where I was, because every time I realized I was unhappy, every time I was like, do you actually need the confidence, Lisa, to speak up, or do you just need to speak up? I literally used the gratitude to hold me back. And it was like, Well, how ungrateful of you, Lisa. How ungrateful of you that you want more when you've got a roof over your head, that you want more, when you have a husband that loves you. And that whole thing made me realize that I wanted to feel great, I wanted to have the confidence to speak up, to say that I wasn't happy, to address that with my husband, to move forward. And I used... We use techniques like excuses, like gratitude, to hold us in this space that is comfortable for the time being, but what I call in the book, the freaking velvet handcuffs, is that they feel... They're velvet, they're lovely, but they're still handcuffs.


And so, how do we shake ourselves awake? How do we start to realize what is that life that we want? How do we move towards it? I think it starts with identifying the goal, and then identifying, literally writing down, why are you not there yet? Because by writing that down, this is a no-judgement zone, you're going to hear me say that a lot as well, the no-judgment zone, write down why you're not there yet. And once you've written it, now you want to put on your other hat, which is the, I don't know, whatever you want to call it, the excuse terminator. Let's just say that. You want to do the excuse...


SHAWN STEVENSON: I was going to give it... Yeah.


LISA BILYEU: There you go. And what you do is you take one thing at a time, and you say, why am I not there yet? And then you start to identify, Is that an excuse, or can I... Is that a valid reason or is it an excuse? Now, the idea is, you're just doing this exercise to get to the results that you're trying to find in order to get to the life you want. So, you can con yourself and trick yourself, but the thing is, you're only tricking yourself. So, as you do this exercise, the whole point is just to be honest with yourself. And what it will start to reveal is, eventually, the game that Tom and I play, called, no BS, what would it actually take?


So, for instance, people use the excuse, I don't have the money, I don't have the time, I don't have the confidence. It's like, Alright. Let's actually write out what that would look like. So, let's just stay on the YouTube train for the second, because we were talking about YouTube earlier. I say I want to start a YouTube channel. Am I there yet? No. Why not? Because I don't have the money, I don't have the time, I don't have the resources. You can write all these things down. And then next to it, you can say, is that actually true or not? But playing the, no bullsh*t, what would it take, you write down, also, what would it take to actually start a YouTube channel? Because your perception may be, you need a team, you need three hires, you need the professional cameras. So, if you're thinking like that, you can see why, oh, I don't have the money. Yeah, maybe that's real. I don't have the resources. Oh, yeah. See, you can convince yourself.


But now, here's what I will propose. No bullsh*t, what would it actually take to start a YouTube channel? Oh, you want cameras? Where do you live? What neighborhood do you live in? Do you live in a one-bedroom apartment? Well, you could, no BS, in order to start a YouTube channel, it... I mean, look. A, you could just grab your iPhone. So, there's that. But let's say someone even says, I can't afford an iPhone, Lisa. Alright. But look, I'm going to go back to, where do you live? How do you spend your money? Do you buy Starbucks once a week? Okay. Well, maybe that's $2.50. If you save that $2.50, you didn't go to Starbucks for the next 10 years, could you save money now? Or if you live in a one-bedroom apartment, what if you left that one bedroom apartment, you got a studio apartment that you rented with three other people? It sounds nightmarish, but that's the no BS, what would it take for me to be able to start a YouTube channel? I just said that I need money for an iPhone, and that's why I'm not getting started. Then no bullsh*t is, actually, you don't. You can change your lifestyle. That's what it's going to take. It's going to take you to moving outside of where you live, maybe the neighborhood, the conditions that you're in. Maybe in order to start a YouTube channel and be as big as Shawn, you have to not go on vacation with your partner for three years, because you have to put in the hours.


Okay, now you've just listed what is actually going to take for you to start a YouTube channel, and now you can just ask yourself, is that the life I want. Like if you were to say to me, Lisa, you could start a YouTube channel, but you actually have to go and move out of your house, you have to go into a studio apartment, live with three people. I'll go, oh yeah, that's not a life I want, so I guess I'm not starting a YouTube channel. And now I've removed all excuses, I just say, oh, I've realized what it's going to take. I've said that I don't want to, and now that is no longer my goal, the problem lies when we say we want something, and then we use every reason to justify why we're not there yet.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, you just said it's going to require some discomfort.


LISA BILYEU: So much discomfort.


SHAWN STEVENSON: And we are so... In our culture today, we're so about our comfort and that's cool. You can have comfort, you can absolutely have comfort, but if you want to accomplish something beyond where you are right now, it's going to take you to do different things, and that's going to cause discomfort, but that's also where you develop more confidence, and you start to lean into the discomfort, and before you know it, that discomfort becomes comfortable, it's one of these crazy secrets that shouldn't be a secret, so powerful what you're saying. And there is this really interesting thing, just even going through this very practical assessment, you said self-soothing, right? You gave a great example of what that can look like for you in your life. We use so many different tactics to suppress that because my condition can... My excuse comes up and it's like, Really, what would it really take? No BS. What would it really take? And if I want to feel better, if I want to be healthier than I was in this state where I'm overweight, where I'm in chronic pain, I can literally just... Again, take out a piece of paper and a pen and write down, what would it take for me to feel better? Because my story, the big title of my movie at the time was, I'm unhelp able. There's nothing I could do. This is incurable.


And I was lying to myself that there was nothing that I could do, and because that was the dominant narrative, but if I just get practical, which again, it's one of those things you nudge people to, like just zoom out a little bit. Take a meta perspective, write down some things, what would it take? No BS, what would it take to feel better? Oh, drink water a couple of times a day, which I'm... To be honest, I might have drunk a glass of water. I know this sounds crazy. People have tagged me, I'm synonymous with hydration today, but I might drink maybe a glass of water every couple of days, I was primarily... My blood was probably like 23% Hawaiian punch. I'm getting in all the liquid I can through this media and Kool-Aid, and I didn't have a lot of money, so I'd have Flavor Aid too, it's like the knock-off, which is really messed up. You got to be broke, broke when you can't afford 20-cent packet of Kool-Aid, you're getting the 10-cent pack of Flavor Aid.


SHAWN STEVENSON: And so, drink water a few times a day, go for a walk around my neighborhood, I could still walk, but because I was in pain... Just in... The pain would happen only when I stood up, when I'm standing up, I could stand up for quite a while, but because of that, I gave myself permission, I used it as an excuse that I couldn't go for a walk around my block a couple of times a week, focus on getting better sleep, whatever the... I can start to dissect and break down those excuses, and I'm so grateful you're pointing us to that.


LISA BILYEU: Thank you. And then I would even get even more refined because sometimes if I wrote down, I'm going to drink, I'm going to go for a walk three times a week, when it actually happens, you've got a reason, oh well, I'm really busy, so how do you then stick to it... How do you... Habit creation, how do you make sure, I'll just own up to who I am so I'll go, Oh, I'm the type of person that will have every intention of walking around the block three times a week, and I know myself when it comes up, my business is more important, so I guarantee you, I'm going to find a reason that I have to spend more time on my business and that... But I know that in the long term, I need to take this walk, because it's for my health. So, to your point, I know that I want to feel better, so I know I need to take this walk, but in the real time, I know that I'm going to prioritize my business.


Okay, great, I just know myself, there's no judgement involved, but by knowing thyself, now I can go, how do I make sure that my natural inclination doesn't steer me, I don't judge myself for it, I just go, I know that this is about to happen, so what do I do to make sure it doesn't happen? So I go, Okay, cool. Number one, I know that I need to put it in my calendar. This can't just be like, oh, I'm going to have every great intention. No, no, I actually have to put it in my calendar. I know it that's going to set me up for success, I also know I have to set an alarm in my phone to remind me about my calendar schedule, so I go, I don't judge myself, I just acknowledge who I am, what I'm trying to get to, I write all the truth out, like the messy crap that is Lisa Bilyeu on how I think and how I show up every day because I'm 43, so if I don't know myself by now, and doing the work is like, you can con yourself to pretend, Oh no, you're going to go for the walk three times a week, and it's like you're 43 years, Lisa, you know yourself, you know you're not going to do it, but I know why I'm doing it, going back to my North Star, so I've really established my goal.


I've established why I'm doing it, I know that it's good for me, and I know who I am, so now I go, Well, you're not going to let that be as an excuse, Lisa, so you're going to combat it, so before I even start going on that walk, before I even commit to the three days a week, I'm going to sit there, come up with a game plan, be honest about who I am, and then figure out a way so that I don't use an excuse like, Oh, my business needs me.


SHAWN STEVENSON: How dare you, how dare you... This is literally the most important thing, which is knowing oneself, the ability to self-assess, to know who you are, because what we tend to do is we act like we're somebody else suddenly, while the thing works for a couple of days, a couple of weeks, and then fizzles away. If we can really take the time to identify, who am I really, what are my habitual patterns, how do I keep showing up? Because we're trying to go to a new destination, being the same person, that's the big problem, because we're trying to take our old self to the new party instead of identifying who am I really, what are my tendencies, and then start to create a game plan to address those things, to stack conditions in our favor. So why don't we do this?


LISA BILYEU: Honestly, this is exactly what I say for new year, because when people... I get everyone has a motivation, 'cause that's the thing we can convince ourselves Shawn, it's probably a great human trait of us, it probably is. I haven't really thought too much about it in history and why biologically we're like this, but we do. We naturally turn to, Okay. I'm really motivated, so we... I'm going to do it. We convince ourselves. And then reality takes over. And so, I just go, Oh, reality takes over. I don't judge myself for it. I just go, I know motivation, I know... It's like a muscle. You go to the gym, you work out a muscle, you get bigger, you get stronger. But guess what? If you don't keep working it, if you don't keep focusing on it, if you don't keep putting time and energy into it, it'll atrophy. The same with motivation. It's like I don't beat myself up. I understand that motivation has to be an approach, it has to be consistency, it has to be... You have to give it the time and the energy, because you may feel that burst of motivation the first year in January. And so, going back to how I came up with this idea, it really was, I just have a goal, and I just want to get there. So, by pulling the wool over our eyes, does it serve us? No. By putting blinders up, by tricking ourselves into thinking, Now I've got it this time, does it help us? No.


So, the... How often do we say, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result? And so, I'm just like, Okay, I know where I want to go. It is all on me because I'm definitely a take ownership type of person. So, I called the subtitle of the book, The 10 No-BS Lessons of Becoming the Hero of Your Own Life. Don't look outside yourself. I don't look to my husband to save me. I don't look for any... My parents or my friends or anyone to save me. I am the hero of my own life. And in order to be the hero of your own life, you have to be honest, you have to care about yourself, but you have to be transparent with yourself.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yes, yes, yes. So, you just dropped in an Einstein... Well, something that's attributed to Einstein. Even with these quotes today, it could have been Shirley that said this on Instagram five years ago. It's just like, Einstein said... We don't know for sure. We weren't there. But it's okay. But this is attributed to Einstein, but this definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. But there's another one that's attributed to him, that, we cannot solve a problem from the same level of thinking that created the problem.


LISA BILYEU: Cool. I like that.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, yeah. If Einstein said it, it's fire.


LISA BILYEU: It must have been Einstein and not Shirley.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Shout out to Shirley. But it's so interesting because, again, we try to... This is why problems, I believe, are so difficult. We over-complicate them because we have the same tunnel vision. This is... There is one way to do this, versus... I have this saying that, because when I was growing up, there was... I had a coach who would say, Where there's a will, there's a way. But now I say, Where there's a will, there's 10,000 ways. There's so many possibilities. But we have to oftentimes, again, change our perspective and how we're looking at the thing. Especially when we're in it, we tend to get tunnel vision and just keep hitting our head against the wall, because we're oftentimes bring the same level of thinking to it, the same person, the same level of experience. And so, again, having these tools. And you just pointed us to something really powerful, which is... And this is one of the chapters. I love your chapter titles, by the way.


LISA BILYEU: Thank you.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Life is not a fairy tale. Save yourself. Because we are inundated... I watched the Disney movies. I remember us sitting there, Little Mermaid, all the things when I was a kid, and we have this very fairy tale perspective about how things are going to get solved in our lives. Somebody's going to come along and save us. This happens for men and women. And in that moment when I had always kind of been the victor in my life, I'd been the one in my family to kind of rise above circumstances, to graduate, I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.


LISA BILYEU: Congratulations.


SHAWN STEVENSON: So, being the victor, but suddenly, I get this permission slip from the physician, saying that You don't have to struggle anymore. Your life is too hard. Here's your permission slip. And for me to feel better, what I started to do was look for a different physician to save me. And I had this habitual question in my head all the time, why me? And the other one was, why won't somebody help me? And I kept going to these different physicians, and they would give me the same diagnosis, and they'd give me another prescription. And they'd tell me, Bed rest, don't do anything. And as people keep telling me not to do anything, and they're the expert on my body, apparently, if I do nothing, the worst thing you can do is to do nothing, because not only will my spine, it's already atrophying now, all of me is beginning to atrophy. And so, I kept looking for somebody to come along and to step in and save me. And I even, in the last instance, the last physician I went to see was recommended by a woman that I saw at the gym, and she said that this... He's the best. He's the best. He's the best spine expert in the world and... This whole thing. And I went to see him, and I had such hopes that this guy is finally going to help me to get better. And...


LISA BILYEU: Yeah. What a surprise.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Same story. Same diagnosis. Here's another prescription. Sorry. And, thankfully, it took two years of this struggle and four different physicians, perspectives, diagnoses, for me to say, you know what? And I had this vision I conjured up that night of him sitting there with his family, having dinner, and he's passing the potatoes and...


LISA BILYEU: The doctor?


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, I just... I made it up in my head, most likely... He might have been having dinner. I don't know. He might have been playing video games. I don't know what he was doing. But this vision was, he was living his life, and he wasn't thinking about me. And I'm here in pain and suffering. And so, I decided in that moment that I have to take responsibility for my health. I've done nothing thus far except seek out somebody else to save me. I have to do something. And I instantly asked a simple question, what can I do to feel better? I changed that question. And so, I want to ask you more about this because, again, I think that we carry this with us a lot, looking for somebody. And this isn't to say that wonderful people can't be coaches and supporters and motivators and all the things. But Jim Rohn said No one can do your push-ups for you. And part of this, one of the subtitles here is, I can admit I'm not fine. Talk about that.


LISA BILYEU: Yeah. So, thank you, firstly, for sharing your story. That was one thing that me and you really connected over. And I think that when people go through struggles and they find someone that has a similar struggle, you really do feel that connection. So, thank you for sharing that. I think for me, and I think for a lot of women, we try to be strong, and so when I say, how are you doing? It's like, I'm fine. I'm fine. No, no, I'm fine. We sacrifice... And look, I'm not just saying women, but that's just my perspective, I totally understand that men do this too, but it was just like, no, pummel through it. As we were starting Quest, Quest was growing so quickly. It's Quest Nutrition. We grew at 57,000%, which means that literally one day I'm shipping bags from my living room floor, the next day I'm shipping it from a garage, the next day I'm shipping it from a facility. And then within two years, I'm shipping out $80 million worth of inventory. I've got 40 employees underneath me in just my department alone. Now to give context, right before we started Quest, I was a stay-at-home wife for eight years, so I had no idea what I was doing.


And so, each day, because I didn't know what I was doing, I was showing up and just learning and just trying to stay above water. Now, as I'm trying to stay above water, I start to find like come on, I'm quite good at this, but as I'm finding that I'm quite good at this, I'm really burning myself out, I'm working 15, 16 hours a day, working on weekends, no vacations, me and my... It was so intense, and because I was getting so much praise and validation about how hard I was working, I didn't want anyone to know that my health was going to crap, because it seemed like everyone around me could do it. My husband is a very strong man so he can handle it. His business partners, they can all handle it. But Lisa, you're the only woman, are you really going to speak up and say you're the one that is now having some gut issues? That you're actually not sleeping well? Now you can't do that. So, it was this dialogue that I had with myself about why I wasn't saying that there was something starting to be wrong with my body, and because of that, I was just ignoring all the signs. I literally was ignoring all the signs my body tried to tell me, hey, your gut is starting to get bad, you're starting...


You're not taking care of yourself, you're not sleeping well, you're working too hard, and I just ignored it. Ignored it, ignored it, ignored it because my validation at that point was purely being fed by how hard am I working, because I was so... I didn't believe that I was good, so I had to put in the time and effort. So, I felt if I put in less time and effort, I wouldn't be as good, which meant that would be detrimental to my self-esteem, my ego, I didn't want to feel badly about myself. So, it's not how I'm doing, but I understand why so many of us would just answer with I'm fine, because we don't want it to be a reflection of who we are, or maybe our identity of this is... People are going to think I'm weak. So, in that situation, that was why I think I was just completely ignoring it over and over again, and why I just kept responding with I'm fine, because I thought that's what I should be doing.


And then what a surprise, you ignore your body long enough, you ignore red flags long enough, it will eventually just start whipping you in the face until you pay attention, and that's what ended up happening with me, I was ignoring all the signs and on what should have been the most magical day of my entire career where we sold a portion of Quest, a dream had come true, in the really hard days of building Quest, when we had nothing, we would drive around Beverly Hills in a really old crappy Ford Focus where... That like the steering wheel would shake...




LISA BILYEU: It has like a hole in the exhaust and... So, we... And in those moments, we would dream about, If Quest was successful, we're going to buy these houses, that kept us going, flash forward, we sell a small portion, we finally get the house in Beverly Hills. On this day, that should have been the most celebratory... Oh my God, we're finally here, we've finally done it. I grab a bottle of champagne, I take a swig, 'cause that was like... Yeah, I'm going to... Dom Pérignon, water falling, it was the dream, and that was the moment where the bubbles, the alcohol, whatever, like that, wrecked my gut. And the only way I can explain is it felt like my gut exploded... That's best way I can explain it. On the very day, you couldn't write this sh*t better, on the very day we were celebrating our dream of working that hard, coming true, it was... I'd worked that hard, it caused my gut to erupt, and, on that day, everything came crashing down. Now, going back to how we perceive things, I literally go like that is the best thing that has ever happened to me, and it was on the best day because you want to talk about literally whether you believe in God or a spirituality or just a sign that says, hey, just in case you don't know, money doesn't buy happiness.


And so, it was a beautiful moment... Beautiful moment in hindsight, but that moment for six months, I couldn't stand up for longer than five minutes at a time, my stomach... I couldn't wear a bra for months and months on end, my stomach had protruded so far out, 'cause I had SIBO, I had leaky gut all in hindsight I started to realize this. And I was just like in total... It was a struggle and now you're catching me, what, six years later, I still have to find restaurants to find out what oils they use, I still eat grass-fed meat, I'm still very, very conscious about what I put in my body because of that, but that's been the six-year journey, and I know that was a really long story, but it all stemmed from me using the word fine to ignore the signs that my body was trying to show me.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Now, this story is so wonderful. It's so important because this is a big part of what we do. Even talking about hydration, I direct people to the number one indicator of what your body needs is your body. Me telling you should drink or eat or whatever is still theoretical, your body is the greatest... The greatest feedback mechanism, the most intelligent in the entire universe, and you live there, but we're so disconnected and for you at that time is because I'm fine and you were so externally focused and so your body's like... Sets off a little minor alarm in the background, then it sets off like a little bit louder alarm, then all of a sudden it's like a school fire drill, then the next thing you know, it's a whole... The building is set ablaze.


LISA BILYEU: Oh yeah, it's Titanic and I have no life raft.






SHAWN STEVENSON: Leo could have got on... You know. Meet picture. I got a... Yeah.


LISA BILYEU: I could see your face, you paused for a second.


SHAWN STEVENSON: He could have got on there, but also in this... In this chapter, you say, I can rescue myself.


LISA BILYEU: Yeah, it's exactly the same mirror story to you, it's that I was looking outside of myself at this point, because Quest was doing very well, I was like, I can afford the best doctors, cool. Who are the best doctors in Beverly Hills? And you go into their office, and they got the wall with all the famous people, and you're like, oh, they're going to fix me. Just give me a pill. What am I doing wrong? Because I get it, human nature and simply we want the easy route. I get it, I don't beat myself. You do want the easy route, you want to heal quickly, you don't necessarily even want to know what's wrong, you're just like, give me a pill, I want to feel better. So, I can move on with my life. And so initially, I think that's exactly where I started. The same with you, right? Where you're going to the doctor like, how can you fix me? And every time they were telling me something, I was still ignoring my body and the signs they were telling me what they're suggesting doesn't feel right. So, for instance, I had started to realize that the only way I could actually sustain food because literally, I would eat and then run to the restroom, I was so...


I was 20 pounds lighter than I was now, my hair was falling out, my nails... 'cause I literally couldn't eat anything, the only thing I could actually keep down was beef or something really fatty, so coconut oil, really fatty things. And it has to be cooked, so cook me a big bowl of beef, fatty beef with coconut oil, it sat fine. It was one of the only things, and I go to this doctor, and they were supposed to be one of the best. Literally, everyone's telling me, you've got to go to him, he'll fix you, and so what he tells me is, oh, stop eating beef, it shows that you've got an allergy, so they do these allergy test, shows that you have actually allergic to beef, so stop eating beef and eat raw vegetables. Now, in this moment where I've been sick for probably six months at this point, I already know my body knows that raw vegetables is murder to my gut, but Shawn, what do you think I did when the doctor suggested it?


SHAWN STEVENSON: You did what he said.


LISA BILYEU: I freaking did what he said, and what do you think happened?


SHAWN STEVENSON: A sh*t show. Literally.


LISA BILYEU: A week... It took me a week. My gut was in such disarray, 'cause that was the thing, it's not just don't just rush to the rest... I've got such chronic stomach cramps, I can barely breathe, that's how bad they get. I have to stay lying down, so... It was like six days or something, I had to stay lying down, I couldn't get up, all I could drink was water, I had to take deep breaths and I had to try and slowly introduce the fatty beef back into my diet 'cause it was the only thing that I could take. And in hindsight, I look back and I'm like, What the hell were you doing, Lisa? And so, what I realized is, you're just not human. Don't beat yourself up, you're human, you wanted an easy way out. We all do that, but now you realize there is no easy way out, and now you realize that you need to start listening to your body, you had an instinct that what the doctor was telling you wasn't going to sit well, so I have to rethink my approach right, it's just like, Okay, it's the definition of insanity... Just change what you're doing, because otherwise you're going to have the same thing. Definition of insanity.


So, I just sat, and I said, Okay, I'm sitting here... Let me just back up, I'm sitting here and I'm blaming the doctors originally, so I actually didn't kind of explain what had happened, so I was in... The doctors were giving me too many antibiotics and it had wrecked my gut lining. That was the narrative I was telling myself. That was the narrative other doctors were saying like, oh yeah, you've taken too many antibiotics, it's wrecked your gut lining. And that was the story I was telling myself. And so, after six months, eating freaking raw vegetables, all of this stuff, I start going to, does this mindset serve me? Does the way I'm approaching it serve me, yes or no. The answer is no. Okay, how do I rethink this? I have to re-think that, What if it's not the doctor's fault. Okay, what would that look like? Just what would that look like? I'm not trying to make myself feel badly, I'm just trying to say, what would that look like? Alright, well, I'm blaming the doctors, but the truth is they didn't force feed me the antibiotics. I voluntarily swallowed them. It was a... I did that by myself.


Okay, I know, I volunteered, and I did that myself, they can't force me to. Alright, but they're the expert, so you should be able to trust the expert, right Lisa? And I start thinking back and I'm like, Actually, you know what, at one point he did say to me, you know, I probably shouldn't give you these many antibiotics. Now, not once did I ask why. Literally, he says this to me and I'm like, Okay, thank you. I take the prescription and I still go get my antibiotics. So that's on me. I didn't ask why, I didn't look it up, with Google, there's no freaking excuse, I'm just going to say that out loud, anyone that's using that as an excuse, you got Google now stop that excuse. So, I didn't Google it, I didn't say what are the knock-on effects for taking antibiotics, I was actually asking my doctor, hey, I feel sick, maybe you should give me antibiotics. So that was a very easy way of saying, Okay, that's you, you took them and now start to even backtrack even further, I was the one that had a very unhealthy relationship with food growing up. I started to realize; I grew up with a mom that was borderline anorexic.


I saw that growing up. So, what did that teach me? Lisa don't get fat. Your validation will be based on how you look. And so, at 16, I gave up fat. I stopped eating fat because I heard fat makes you fat. You might have heard that somewhere. So, I stopped eating fat at the age of 16. At around 17, 18, I started hearing about carbs, so I start cutting out carbs. So now you catch me, I'm in my early 30s, I don't eat fat, I don't eat carbs, well what's going to happen? I'm starting to get sick because your immune... Which I didn't understand. 70% of your immune system's carried in your gut. So, I was getting sick, I was taking antibiotics, I chose to not eat fat and carbs to replenish my gut, and so it just slowly got worse, so I know that was a really long story, but that's how I go, Oh, Lisa. This is all your fault. Now look, I use the word fault, because that empowers me to take action. It makes its sting just enough to be like, I didn't like that being my fault, so I am going to change. But I want people at home to use whatever word propels them forward.


I use the word fault, but people might want to use responsibility, ownership, use whatever word is going to propel you forward, not a word that may trigger you, but... Okay, I like the word, fault. So I go, oh, Lisa, this is all your fault. You just told yourself you chose not to eat fat; you chose to not eat carbs. You chose to ignore the doctors when they said they shouldn't give you that many antibiotics. You chose not to do your research, and you chose to swallow it. Amazing. But the most empowering thing about all of this is, if I was the one that got myself into it, you better believe I am the one that's going to get myself out of it. And that was the most freeing thing I had ever thought of, and I was like, this is super freaking powerful. I'm not blaming myself and keeping myself stuck, I'm actually using this as a way of propelling myself forward. And now, how do I embody it with encouragement and happy spirits? 'Cause that's also the thing, I don't like doing things out of fear. So, I started... Oh, my God, this is my superpower, I am my own hero. And so that actually is how...


Again, I know myself, I know that blaming myself may make me not do anything, so I know I need to cultivate and create language that is going to propel me forward. And so, I sat there, what do I love? I freaking love superheroes, Wonder Woman's a badass. So, I am like, Cool, I am now going to be the hero of my own life.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yes. Yes, oh, so powerful, so powerful. Oh, my gosh, one of the biggest things... And this is a game changer for us to realize when we're in pain. Whether this is a relationship, whether this is physical, whether this is a business thing, that's when we'll often do just about anything to get out of that pain, especially if it's a visceral physical pain, this is when we're more likely to outsource our bodies and our choices to other people. Now, the work is... Again, it's not necessarily your fault for having the things presented to you...




SHAWN STEVENSON: But it's your responsibility, it was your choice, it was your fault to take those things into... Imbibe them. So, part of the work is getting to a place where even in those moments of pain, you still have the ability to self-assess, you still have the ability to question things and not run for the exit.




SHAWN STEVENSON: And again, we both know this intimately, and you just turned it all on its head, because when you take responsibility for your choices, suddenly you have 100% responsibility for the change that comes...




SHAWN STEVENSON: And the choices you make moving forward. But if you're wasting so much time pointing fingers and blaming, we're just giving our energy away, we're giving our power away, we're giving our opportunity to change away. And so that's the opposite of radical confidence. So powerful.


LISA BILYEU: Exactly. And now, you're relying on someone else, that's also the key, and you even just said it, the power thing is such a big deal. It's like with the fairy tales growing up, especially as a woman, made to think that you live in service for other people, really is about putting other people first and giving your power away and never trusting yourself. And so, in my growth as going from a housewife to an entrepreneur, telling my husband, I originally want four children, and then deciding, I don't want any. Going from being very sick to taking ownership to being where I am today. All of that comes with a lot of focus, knowing where you want to go, holding yourself accountable, and just not looking outside yourself for results. And that doesn't mean that I don't turn to friends, I think asking for help, is super important, like not thinking you have to do it all yourself. Like all of these things that we're told, oh, you got to suck it up and do it. Like all of that, I think I have learned to train myself to get better at, because I don't instinctually ask for help. And then, I used to ask for help too much, as going back to basically the ownership, I was asking, Help, save me. And now, I am saving myself, and asking for people to help me on my journey as I save myself.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yes. Yes, so powerful. We've got a quick break coming up, we'll be right back. It's no secret that processed food manufacturers have a team of scientists chemically constructing frankenfoods that are incredibly addictive, but also causative agents of degeneration and disease. It's one thing to tell yourself to stop eating these processed foods, it's another thing to our biology that can actually become addicted to some of these chemical and sweet elements. Well, researchers have recently discovered that there is a natural food element that's able to help our brains and our biology resist the urge to eat hyper-palatable, fake processed foods. A study published in the peer-reviewed journal, Appetite, found that chlorophyll can actually aid in weight loss and reduce the urge to eat hyper-palatable foods. What's really interesting is that it was also found to increase the release of glucagon-like peptide 1, which according to research published in the Journal of Endocrinology, as a potential to trigger body fat redistribution. This means that it's sparking the release of visceral aka belly fat and increasing the ratio of subcutaneous fat, which appears to be more protective against metabolic diseases. Pretty cool stuff found in chlorophyll. What are the most chlorophyll-dense foods that you can find?


Well, anything green is going to have chlorophyll, it's an indicator of a chlorophyll content. But specific foods like chlorella, getting its name from chlorophyll, is really taking things to another level. Chlorella is actually 50% protein by weight, its complete protein, one of the most protein-dense nutrient sources ever discovered, it also contains carotenoids. It's like lutein and zeaxanthin have been found to protect our vision from things like macular degeneration. And to top it off, a double-blind placebo-controlled study published in Clinical and Experimental Hypertension found that chlorella was able to significantly reduce blood pressure of test subjects with hypertension by the end of the 12-week study period. So being an actual source of treatment for people experiencing hypertension, something remarkable about it. Chlorella combines that with spirulina, another nutrient dense super algae, which is 71% protein by weight and spirulina of course is also another remarkable source of chlorophyll, along with being rich in B vitamins and copper and iron, list goes on and on to the micro-nutrition ratios, I get them combined together with other powerful super foods and the Organifi green juice formula. Go to That's


You get 20% off their incredible green juice blend, their red juice blend is amazing as well. My kids love it. Their gold is remarkable, just everything that they carry, they're doing things the right way, organic, low temperature processed to help you retain the nutrients. And they taste fantastic. Go to for 20% off. Now, back to the show. So, one of my favorite parts of the book, you said this term earlier, when you were working, you're behind off and getting that external validation. I think that validation in a way can act as like pseudo confidence, right? And you've got a chapter in the book... This is chapter three. The title of the chapter is validation is for parking. Can you talk about this particular chapter and why it was important to talk about it?


Yeah, I think so, its again human nature, we all want to be proud of ourselves, and growing up, usually, at least for me, it was like to be proud of myself, I would look to parents, to like, are they clapping for me. I would look to my teacher, Am I getting good grades? So, I kind of almost get why we all grow up, looking outside of ourselves for other people to make ourselves feel good. Now as a kid, it can actually be a way to boost your confidence, right? We're like if little Johnny's jumping in the pool and doing a dive and little Johnny is looking at the dad or the mom, and he's scared, but he still does it, and the parents are clapping, is like, oh okay, being confident facing my fear is a good thing. So, I can... It comes two-fold, right? It can be amazing, but also it could be detrimental, and so I think that the detrimental piece, is when we don't do anything or we don't feel good about ourselves unless we're getting the validation, unless we're getting the pats on the back and the truth is we're not always going to show up and do amazing things. So how do we keep moving forward when either the validation doesn't come, how do we cultivate our own self-validation so that we know as a tool when to use it to keep us going.


And then who do you look to for that validation in the first place, and then how do you unwire that, so like I would look to Tom, as my business partner, as my husband, it's kind of look to him to be like, Oh, you're doing a great job babe, you're a great business partner, you're a great wife, whatever, and then realize hang on a minute, that is such a bad strategy in general, because what if my husband isn't feeling good one day, what if he's having a very bad day... Yeah, and I'm thinking, he's going to love this and he comes in and he hates whatever, am I going to feel badly about it? Because he had a bad day, so now all of a sudden something I was proud of, now actually gets completely turned on his head because someone else's experience of whatever they went through that day was bad. Even just take hungry, right? What if my husband is just hungry and he's in a bad mood, am I going to let the fact that he's hungry take away the pride I have over something that I've just done. So, I recognize, again, I just recognize that it isn't a good strategy to make yourself feel better as you go on this journey of having the life you want.


LISA BILYEU: So, I recognize that and I'm like, Okay, what are the actions that I do where I seek the validation, that's first thing, who are the people you seek validation from, that's important as well, and then how do I come up with a strategy where I can bring this to myself. So let me take the book as a perfect example. Someone comes to me, literary agent, do you want to write a book? The very first words out of my mouth were, who would buy a book from me, the insecurity, the 14-year-old Lisa that doesn't feel good about herself, that was the first words that came out of my mouth. And in that moment, I was like, oh, bless, she is still there. That's okay, but you know, you cannot let this insecurity run your life or the decisions you make, but what are you really worried about? So let me just take some time and do some self-assessment, why was that the first thing it's, well, what if you write a book Lisa, and no one likes it. Oh, so what you're really worried about is that you're going to feel badly about yourself, you're going to think that if other people don't like your book, it's going to say something about you.


Alright, again, no judgment. That's just the reality. So now I know that I'm about to potentially step in a pitfall, a trap. So I go cool, I'm about to step in a pit and trap, what can I do now to set myself up so that I can validate myself, even if the book tanks, even if everyone hates the book, What am I going to do before that, I even release the book, and so I just sat there and I said, Okay, how can I validate myself through this process? Alright Lisa, you just said, you don't think anyone's going to buy your book, you're so insecure, but you know what, you're going to write a book. So, you can be proud of yourself that you were the person that first said, who the hell would buy a book from me, once upon a time that would have stopped you and you didn't let it stop you, you actually not only wrote a book, you've finished a book and it got published. Alright, so I wrote that down. You've gone from being the person that thought, who the hell would buy a book from me to all the way to you did it. That's validation number one, number two, am I going to give it my all?


Because you know, right when you're like, I can't believe this didn't work. I spent all this time on it. Like, did you really spend all the time on it? Or did you convince yourself that you kind of, I put my all into it, but you didn't really, you went out on Saturday night, you gave yourself a three-week vacation. You stopped work at 5:00 PM. Like, is that really giving it your all? So, I said, okay, what does giving it my all look like? So, I sat there, and I wrote out, what does giving it my all look like. And I said, if you do this Lisa, and you do give it you’re all by the end, again, this is all before I launched the book guys. If I do that, if I gave it my all, if I put in this time, if I said no to going and hanging out over here, if I did that, but still put self-care first, 'cause that's super important to me, so I could show up to write the book, but if I do all this before I launch the book, can I validate myself? And I said, yes. So, I put in... There is so many other things that I did, but you can see how I break something down, I don't judge myself for it, but I know the pitfall of us looking outside ourselves to feel good, and so I created a cheat sheet if you will, and so now, once I released the book, it just went through and I was like, Lisa, you damn better be proud of yourself. You got a D in English, Lisa, and you still wrote and published a book. Damn, you can be proud of that.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Awesome, so good. I just realized just now that your book was really like an inception, you know what I mean?


LISA BILYEU: It was. It was its own inception.


SHAWN STEVENSON: You put yourself inside of yourself and created this thing for everyone else, and you were doing the things in the process, that's powerful. It's so powerful.


LISA BILYEU: Thank you.


SHAWN STEVENSON: And one of the cool things too about you writing this book is that your vision was storytelling, creating movies and being behind the camera, and what people don't really realize is that that validation comes in the process itself, if it's not about that other thing, because most people... They weren't with you, they weren't with you in the room when you were doing all this work, and it's about the person you become in the process, the character, the skill set, the ability to communicate, your ideas, putting your words together and painting these pictures and expressing your unique style, and all of these things get fleshed out, right, so it's about the person you become, and it's really interesting when you have the confidence just to take action again, even if it's not... Even if you have fear, which I want to talk about now, even if you have fear still taking those steps, something really magical can happen.


LISA BILYEU: That's the radical confidence.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Look, there's another thing too that you've done recently that I'm so surprised you just started doing because you're so good at it, speaking.


LISA BILYEU: Oh my God. I get nervous just by you saying the word.


SHAWN STEVENSON: But you know, having the opportunity to write this book, for me, it's like a no-brainer because you're a great storyteller, you've got so much to share and you have a perspective about what's entertaining, and so it's just like an obvious... But for you, it's just like, you literally... The first thing you said when Tom presented the idea to you, the agent wants to do this book, you're like, who would buy a book from me? Insanity, it sounds like insanity, but it's a valid thing in your mind.


LISA BILYEU: But also, can I just... Sorry to stop you there, but why would I think I would be amazing at writing a book if I've never written a book before? Again, I don't... I don't say that as a bad thing, I just go, oh, why would I have tremendous confidence in writing a book? I actually can be okay and secure in myself by saying, you have no idea how to write a book Lisa, but that's okay because you're the kind of person who is going to figure it out.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yes, I love that, I love that. So also, just to throw this in there, to parallel that is, it's about the person you become, you're already becoming the kind of person who has that mentality in your life experience, and it's just putting it into this medium, the medium's new but you are already remarkable.


LISA BILYEU: That's so sweet of you but I'm always very real. And I get like... So, to speaking, it was a thing that petrifies me the most. It's like, isn't it... Like speaking death and taxes, the three things that people fear the most or whatever, public speaking, and I remember being... When we had started building Impact Theory, so I was all behind the scenes, Tom was out front, he had his show, he was going on stage, and so when he was on stage, I would look up at him like, Thank God it's him and not me, I would be like, I'm never doing that. Hell no! And so, it wasn't something that I ever wanted to do, it wasn't something that ever excited me to do, and so when I started to get offers, I just kept saying, No. Why the hell would I ever do that? And then I realized... Going back to where we started, I was like, What's your North Star? My North Star and goal was impacting people, and so I just sat there and said, Oh, Lisa, you say you want to impact people, and people are approaching you to have these speaking gigs, to your point, was like, Oh, you'll be great.


But how do you know I'll be great? I may freeze. I don't know what I'm going to be like in front of 100, 1000 people, I may freeze, so all this... Other people saying, you'll be great now just adds the pressure of like, well, I better be great. And you want to talk about fear, it's like putting fear on top of fear, on top of fear because I've already feared standing on stage and now everyone expects me to be great, because maybe they've seen content, maybe it's because I'm Tom's wife, and so I just kept blanketly saying no, out of the fear of embarrassing myself, of freezing on stage, or of like, I don't want this to reflect badly on Tom or our company, or what would they say about me and so I got in my own head until eventually Tom just basically said, Babe, you realize you're tricking yourself, going back to excuses. He's like, you say you want to impact people, but you're not living in alignment, and I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, well, if you want to impact people, you would get on stage because people want to hear from you. I was like, Damn he's so... The relationship we have is we're always very honest with each other, so I took that, and I sat down, I was like, Okay, let me just really assess this.


I said I want to impact people, that is my North Star, I get up every day for this and yet I am saying no to speaking. Why am I saying no? Like what I just said, the shame, the embarrassment, and I was like, Oh, that's the ego. I'm putting my ego first, so now I just then need to actually just ask myself, what is more important? My goal or my ego? Now, here's the great news, it's my life. So, if I choose ego, that's my life, it's my choice, I have to live with that. So, I don't... I think people need to ask those questions for themselves, what's more important, where you're feeling uncomfortable and it's like you said earlier, or the goal, but give yourself the grace to say, but this is my life so I can choose based on the life that I want. So, if I said, you know what, I just want to feel better about myself and going on stage just brings crippling anxiety, and even though I want to create impact, I don't want to create impact... As a disservice to how I feel about myself? Cool.


'cause that didn't sit well with me, Shawn. I just said, oh no, that doesn't sit well, I definitely am the kind of person that will create impact and make myself uncomfortable because I believe in my goal and my mission so much, so this means Lisa you need to get on stage. And so that started just a decision to say, to get on stage, and now I literally break out in the book, we all know fear can be very real, fear can be crippling. And so, by telling someone, no, just feel the fear and do it in a way in service of your goal. It doesn't work. And I realize that because I'm the type of person that kept saying No, and so I just needed a strategy and a blueprint to say, I know why I need to get on the stage, I know why it's important, but I can't physically get... Put one foot in front of the other because I'm so scared.


Cool, you just need a blueprint now, Lisa, you just need a stepping stone that when you get up in the morning, what do you do in order so that you can get on the stage so that you can stop that voice in your head from tricking you that you shouldn't, that you want to feel better about yourself, so don't go on stage, and so it really became a... A layout of Step one for me is wear my wonder woman necklace and so I have this whole ritual that I do, like guys who do sports... Not even guys, but people that play sports, I hear that they do the whole ritual where they put on the same smelly socks or whatever, because...


SHAWN STEVENSON: Same jockstrap. Yeah, it's nasty.


LISA BILYEU: Yeah, the same jockstrap, exactly. I just go... These are things that we can use as tools to bring us the confidence. Think about a kid that puts on a cape, what do they do?


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, immediately just kind of start flying around.


LISA BILYEU: Can we agree that a piece of clothing can make you embody a certain persona?




LISA BILYEU: Make you feel a certain way? Okay, we know that as kids, but we don't use it as adults. In fact, we do, some people like Beyonce with Sasha Fierce on the stage, but that's what I mean is that if you think about what are the things that I can use to encourage me to step up, if a kid has a cape, what is my cape? My cape is my Wonder Woman necklace that you see me wearing right now, this is my version of a cape, and so what I've done is every day I recognized I need a cape so I can step on the stage. Alright, what am I going to use? So, I just found this necklace on Amazon, I understand the importance of repetition to create habit, so I said I need to create a habit so when I put on this necklace, I feel like a superhero. So, I'm going to repeat maybe for the next 30 days, every time I put on my Wonder Woman necklace, I'm going to repeat you're badass like Wonder Woman, and after the 30 days, hopefully, when I look at myself in the mirror, I see a badass. And so, you better believe these were little steppingstones that I did, and I break it down in my book. But that's how I end up getting on stage.


I wore Supergirl knickers because I knew... In my research, everyone that had ever done speaking gigs told me, you’re going to go to the restroom a lot, Lisa before you get on stage 'cause of nerves, you're going to... You're going to think you need to pee 20 times, and so I was like, oh, I've never been on stage, so I don't know, but this is a warning people have told me, so now I know I have to start peeing a lot, I'm going to get nervous because everyone's telling me it's a sign of nerves. So, I need to now counteract it, so I need a plan. Everything comes to a plan, Shawn, everything. And so, my plan was, you need something that when you keep going to the restroom, you remind yourself of what you're made of, so I'm going to buy a Supergirl knickers. So I went on Amazon, I typed in Superhero knickers and Supergirl came up, I was like, Yeah, I'll take some of those. And you better believe my very first TEDx talk, I'm wearing Supergirl knickers.


SHAWN STEVENSON: That's a fun fact, you're the first person to say Knickers on this show.


LISA BILYEU: Underwear for you Americans.




LISA BILYEU: But that is... Thank you for team USA. Going back to your fear point, that is how I go, yes, I'm fearful. It is okay, everyone listening right now, what is that fear you have, give yourself the grace to just understand, that yes you feel it, and now what are you going to do about it?


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. This is so important. It's so practical, and I think we do this in our lives, we don't realize it, especially as children we are more... We can be more cognizant seeing it in our children, like my youngest son, his screensaver, he's 10 years old, his screen saver on his iPad is him in this Miles Morales Spider-Man costume, and it was legit. He looked like him, it's so awesome, so much so that he's got himself on his iPad, he sees it every day, and when he put that on, he's doing... He's jumping around, he's flipping around the couch, and I would even tell him like if I did that when I was your age, I would have got my ass whooped, but go ahead, you're in your bag, you're in your vibe, but putting on this uniform and you being intentional about that, like you just kind of mentioned sports as well. I remember... It's so cool. And you know this too, like you never know who's listening, and some of the greatest athletes to ever grace their particular sports, listen to this show. Shout out to two-time gold glover, my guy, Nick, if he's listening right now, playing for the Arizona Diamondbacks, but just understanding that a lot of these top athletes, if you actually get to hear them, they are terrified, especially going into big games, some of the most people, you have fear watching them, they're in fear, they're terrified going into that thing, it's just like...


Oftentimes, you can't see it yourself and then you know there's this stories people like... Their routine is to throw up before getting to their sport, and so... But there's this practice of putting on that uniform and feeling this sense of... The fear is there, but I'm ready for battle. I'm ready to go and execute and do what I'm here to do. Again, we see that as adults, we're adults, and we put on that uniform for that, there are people who are doing that in their day-to-day lives in their particular job. They're putting on... They're suiting up, and they're having that mentality when they put those clothes on. What if we were conscious about it, like you were, putting on your necklace or whatever part of your outfit, your... The knickers. Putting on the superhero...


LISA BILYEU: No one sees 'em, so that's the great thing.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. That's so powerful.


LISA BILYEU: And just being intentional. I think that's really the key. And other... Anyone that's listening, it really comes down to individuality. And that's really the emphasis that I want to say as well, is like, you, guys, listening are like, there's no way, Lisa. That's so childish. Cool. What's the thing for you? That's really the point, it's like, what is that thing that you can go to, that you've cultivated that can bring your confidence? That's why I wrote the book Radical Confidence. You're never just automatically going to have it. So, in moments where you know, maybe you have to go up on stage, maybe you have to do a presentation, maybe it's your first day in a new job and you're doing a presentation in front of five people, and you're petrified. Okay. Well, in those moments, what are the things that you can turn to that are going to encourage you, that are going to give you that boost? And I... The sports thing, and then... But I also mentioned Beyonce. You literally... To hear about Beyonce. She's got an... She calls it the alter ego. But what I really understand is, it's a persona. She suits up in these certain rhinestone onesie things that are just sexy as hell, and it's like it's not like she wears it around the house. Around the house, she's Beyonce. It's like she's a wife, she's a mother, she's a friend, she's a daughter. But when she wants to be freaking badass and get on stage and rule that freaking stage and show everyone who's boss, she needs to suit up.


So why do you think she's created the name? Because I'm sure she's cultivated that idea that as she puts on that rhinestone onesie body suit or whatever she's doing, and she says, Yeah, I'm freaking Sasha Fierce, just even saying it, I feel more badass. But lean into it, guys. Don't just accept that maybe you're someone that doesn't have confidence right now. Just give yourself the grace to know where you are, say where you want to go, and then create a game plan in order for you to be able to get there, every single day. So now, today, maybe it starts with buying a Wonder Woman necklace, or maybe it doesn't. Maybe start with braiding your hair, putting your hair in a ponytail, cutting your hair. There's so many different things that people can try. And the one thing that I would suggest is where to get started is you just need to experiment. I didn't know that Wonder Woman was going to end up being my thing. If you had told me 20 years ago, I never would have believed you. At 16, I'd be like, Wonder Woman. That's for children. Because I wanted to fit in, I wanted to be cool. And I wasn't cool, and I didn't fit in. I got teased and bullied as a kid. So, to fit in, I never would have had the Wonder Woman necklace on, because I would have made of.


So, no matter where you are, no matter what age you are, the whole goal right now is to maybe just say, what are those things I kind of just want to try? What are those things that maybe you've wanted to make your heart sing? Go and try it. Take an inventory of how it felt. This isn't for anyone else. This is just for you. I've chosen to share the fact that I wear Supergirl knickers when I need confidence. I didn't have to. But I chose to share it because I feel like that can help someone else. But remember, anyone at home listening, you don't have to share these things. These could be just for you, for you to really get to know yourself, to really understand who you are, to understand what makes you tick. Because what makes you tick probably isn't going to be the same for me, it's not going to be the same for you. And so that's the exploration phase.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Absolutely. It's going to be a little different. Except, I have Supergirl knickers on right now myself.


LISA BILYEU: I was actually going to say, you may do. I think you're the type of person.


SHAWN STEVENSON: So that's not... Actually, I don't. I don't. But so, here's the thing. To bring all of this together, you just said, number one, experiment. Have the audacity. Give yourself permission to experiment, just we... Like give ourselves permission to have excuses, give yourself permission to experiment. And the other part is, which is something I know you did as well, is practice, preparation. These are the things... Beyonce's part of that confidence is, she's prepared. She's practicing in her life. And it's such a level of comfortability in that discomfort she's put herself through that she's just there to tear it up in that moment. So, you sought out counsel from great speakers who you know, who've got just in your life. Not an accident, I don't think. And just to be able to ask questions, to practice and to put yourself in position because, again, this doesn't mean the fear is not going to be there.




SHAWN STEVENSON: You do the thing, but it's practical. And this goes back... This is attributed to Benjamin Franklin. Again, don't know the guy. I'm sure he's super smart.


LISA BILYEU: It probably was still Shirley.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. It might have been big Shirley. But Benjamin Franklin said that if you fail to plan, then you're planning to fail.


LISA BILYEU: Planning to fail. Exactly.


SHAWN STEVENSON: So, having a plan, putting some... This could be a three-step plan or just a couple of things that become your itinerary. And again, making sure that those are consistent with your North Star, why you're doing it. And all of these things, again, it's the simplicity of your story is what's so remarkable, because there's so many of these different things we hear swirling around in our world, and they're cool things to say, but you made it all so very practical and in real world, like, this thing happened to me, and this is what I did. And to look at your level of success and the things that you've accomplished, again, it's just another... For many of us, just it's very inspiring, but you passing that onto other people to be the hero of their own story.


LISA BILYEU: Yeah. I think it's so... It's so important, because so many people think, oh, well, it's easy for you 'cause you have confidence. And that's where I'm like, Oh my God. You couldn't be further from the truth. And so, other people seeing me as confident, and that's why I've been... Had maybe the success that I've had, is doing them a disservice. And one of my favorite quotes of all time is the Lisa Nichols quote, don’t make me extraordinary to let yourself off the hook.


I'm just going to say again, it hits me every time I say it, don’t make me extraordinary to let yourself off the hook. And what she meant was, is people look up to her, like she's so motivation, she's so incredible that a lot of us went, well, we can't be like her, she's extraordinary. I don't have that talent so I'm not even going to try it. It's the excuse part, we get... Let ourselves off the hook from even getting started, and so what I realized was, guys, guys, it's a detriment to you guys, if you think where I am today is because of confidence, it's because I've got radical confidence. I felt insecure, I felt like a failure. I felt embarrassed, I felt shame.


In fact, there's a story I literally share in the book where there was... It's one thing that's happened to me where I was like, I'm either going to hold on to this and never tell a soul, and it's going to haunt my nightmares, or I have to share it as empowerment. And I decided to share it in my book as a way of like, Guys, if I can talk about this story that is so embarrassing and so horrendous, if I can publicly talk about it, then you know that nothing that we've gone through in our past, no shame, no embarrassment ever can dictate who we can become. And that if you can go through these moments and still build your confidence, if you can go through things like this and say, this doesn't define you, then you don't have to look up to me and make me extraordinary to let yourself off the hook, going back to the Lisa Nichols thing. So, to me, I was like, I have to just be raw, I have to be honest, all the messiness that comes with everything that I talk about, getting in front of the camera, people are like, you’ve got a YouTube channel. Yes, but that started with me being petrified, that started with Tom badgering me for about six months to do a live Facebook video with him, six months, then it took me another three months for him to convince me to do one episode for his channel, which I refused to do in front of people, 'cause I was so embarrassed, we sent the crew home.


So that's why... But it's important to know that I'm the person that was so embarrassed I sent my entire crew home because I didn't want anyone to see how bad I was in front of the camera, to now being someone that has my own show, that can come here, that can sit from you guys and not feel the nerves. It is not because I was born with confidence, and that's why it was so important for me to write the book, because it all comes back to tactics, how do you show up every day, how do you set yourself up for success, and how do you get out of your own way, because for me, my insecurities and my emotions were getting in my way for eight years, that left me profoundly unhappy, cooking and cleaning for my husband and doing something that didn't fulfill me.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Radical Confidence, pick it up right now everywhere books are sold, of course, support your local bookstores and go and pick up a copy, hit up Amazon, 10 No-BS Lessons on Becoming the Hero of Your Own Life. Lisa Bilyeu, thank you so much for coming by to hang out with us, I appreciate you.


LISA BILYEU: Thanks for having me.


SHAWN STEVENSON: Awesome, Lisa Bilyeu everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in to the show today, I hope you absolutely love this episode, definitely check out Lisa's show, it's got impact theory, we've got health theory, we've got women of impact, and of course, check out her new book, Radical Confidence, and also Lisa is a fun person to follow on social media, on Instagram, you can follow her @lisabilyeu and as a matter of fact, take a screen shot of this episode and tag her, let her know what you thought about this episode, share the love, let other people know to check out information like this, that's empowering, that's informative, that's how we really take control of our minds and all the different media outlets, the conventional media outlets that are just pumping out dis-empowerment, we can not only counter that, we could swing the pendulum in an entirely different direction and really help to shift our culture, so truly sharing is caring, take a screenshot and tag me I'm @shawnmodel and tag Lisa as well, and of course, you could send this episode directly from the podcast app that you're listening on.


Alright, I appreciate you so much for tuning and we've got some epic shows, powerful guests, incredible master classes coming your way very, very soon, so make sure to stay tuned. Take care, have an amazing day and I'll talk with you soon. And for more after this show, make sure to head over to, that's where you can find all of the show notes, you could find transcriptions, videos for each episode, and if you got a comment, you can leave me a comment there as well. And please make sure to head over to iTunes and leave us a rating to let everybody know that this show is awesome, and I appreciate that so much. And take care, I promise to keep giving you more powerful, empowering, great content to help you transform your life. Thanks for tuning in.

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