SHAWN STEVENSON: Welcome to the Model Health Show. This is fitness and nutrition experts, Shawn Stevenson, and I'm so grateful for you tuning in with me today. On this episode, we're going to be talking about real longevity. What are those components that create real longevity, specifically through the lens of physical activity? What are those inputs that really do help to defend us against the things that take most people down as they go into their later years and also create more resilience. But, and this is the important point, not just increasing your lifespan, but your health span. And we're going to be talking about the activities to do, absolutely.

But, even more importantly, we're going to be talking about the psychology behind it. Because all of the things that we do are based on our identity. What we do is based on who we believe ourselves to be. And our special guest today is also an expert in positive psychology. And we're talking about decades in the field and just accumulating this knowledge base to pair the activities for health and fitness together with the mindset to be able to do it. So it really is a special combination. Now, when I first met our special guest, it was under the umbrella of delicious food. She actually interviewed me about my most recent cookbook, The Eat Smarter Family Cookbook, and we shared our love of cooking together. Obviously our kitchens can be an incredible hub of health and well-being, or it can be a place of health detraction.

And unfortunately, still many people do not realize the number one danger lurking in their kitchen. And some of the most recent data on this was cited in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, revealing that the primary chemical used to make nonstick cookware is now showing up in the blood of over 98 percent of the United States population. And being that this is a journal focused on cancer. This chemical has now strongly been affirmed as a carcinogen, specifically a kidney carcinogen. So we're talking about a proven cancer causing agent. And unfortunately again, a lot of people still don't know about this and the company that created this huge mess that is one of these glorified forever chemicals that once it gets into the body, it is very very difficult, if not impossible.

There are ways to get this stuff out of our system. But the biggest key here is to make sure that we're not introducing this stuff to ourselves and our families anymore, because these companies making this nonstick cookware, they went from Teflon to Gen X. And now other iterations where they're using this chemical complex with all of these off gassing chemicals that it's not just the fact that it's coming through our food, but also the fumes. And I'm telling you right now, we've got to get this stuff out of our kitchens for good. 

There are so many better options, including obviously time tested cast iron. There's stainless steel, but there are also incredible companies who are stepping up because many folks have become acclimated to having the pleasures and the ease of cooking with nonstick cookware and the ease of cleanup with a nonstick cookware. And also the beauty that that can add to your kitchen. Because obviously a well seasoned cast iron pan can do a lot but it's not necessarily it might give you like blacksmith vibes In the kitchen, you know. It's not necessarily something that's going to beautify the kitchen. And so for that purpose the cookware that we've been using that my family is absolutely loving is from the incredible folks at Our Place.

And they have amazing ceramic coating cookware that is pfast free. That is PFOA free. That's the chemical that was causing cancer that's been banned in many countries. They don't have any of these toxic chemicals in their cookware. Again, ceramic is time tested and not only that it's incredibly durable, has all the nonstick capabilities that you're looking for and is beautiful. I did not expect that myself, like it's just something I just didn't think about, but having this cookware in our kitchen, just like brought a new light and energy into the kitchen. And we just love it. We love cooking with this incredible cookware from Our Place. And by the way, Our Place has more than just the ceramic coating cookware. They also have the first ever nonstick technology. That's made of course, without PFAS toxin free, but it's made with titanium. surface titanium is 300 percent harder than stainless steel, making it virtually indestructive and able to withstand up to 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. Cue the music. "I am Titanium!".

We're talking about titanium here. I absolutely love the titanium always pan. It's one of my favorite pans that I've ever had. And we're talking about this stuff is virtually, again, indestructible, and it's so easy to cook with it as a layer of beauty to our kitchen as well. And you get all of this when you go to themodelhealthshow.com/ourplace. And when you use the code model at checkout, you're going to get 10 percent off storewide, but I want to let you in on a little secret, and this is exclusive for us. This is real talk. This is brand new. Our place has some incredible bundles of cookware. That's what we got. We got one of their cookware bundles where we get different sets of pots and pans. Their cookware bundles have deeper discounts that are up to 20, even 30 percent off some of them. Not only are you going to get that discount, which you're going to see when you go to checkout, you're going to see that those are discounted. If you add the code model in at checkout, you're going to get another 10 percent off on top of that. All right. This is new and exclusive for us. And I'm grateful. I don't know how long they're going to keep this double discount, but this is something to take advantage of right now. Go to themodelhealthshow.com/ourplace and check out these incredible, incredible cookware. They also have amazing appliances like an air fryer. That's PFAS free. A lot of people are using air fryers right now. 

That is one of the biggest sources of releasing these PFAS chemicals into your food and into the environment. All right. So they've got an amazing pressure cooker as well. The dream cooker. And again, all of this is available to you right now. At themodelhealthshow.com/ourplace. Remember to use the code model at checkout and hook your family up with this incredible cookware cook safer, smarter, and healthier. And with that, let's get to the Apple podcast review of the week.

ITUNES REVIEW: Another five star review titled "you are my favorite" by aging with grace one. I've been listening to your podcast for three years and you are the OG for me. I share targeted episodes with others to help get your message out. Thank you for what you do and please keep on keeping on.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Let's go. That's what I'm talking about. So amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your voice over on Apple podcasts. And I love the handle aging with grace one. That is a special, special segue into our topic today and our amazing special guest Dr. Sandra Scheinbaum. Dr. Scheinbaum is the founder and CEO of the Functional Medicine Coaching Academy, a collaboration with the Institute for Functional Medicine. And she's a leader in the field of health coaching education as an educator, clinical psychologist, and author for over 40 years. She actually founded the Functional Medicine Coaching Academy at age 65. Because rather than retiring, she's on a mission to grow the health coaching profession so that millions of people can get the support they need to lead healthier lives. Let's dive into this conversation. with the amazing Dr. Sandra Scheinbaum. So what are your grandkids into right now?

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Grandkids are into reading, which I absolutely love. I mean, they are, and maybe it's because they're surrounded by books. So, they, my son in law, my daughter took the house that we raised my daughter in and so now I can see my grandkids being in this house, and bring back so many memories that when I was raising my kids, but we, my husband and I were always book collectors. We saved everything, like books from high school. We still have those books. So we had books, bookcases, a lot of bookcases. And so we took some with us when we moved, but we left many. And then my daughter and her husband, they have books. And when the grandkids come to our house, we have a lot of books available. And so they go to the library, they pick out books, then they have and also I kept from when my, I have two daughters and they, when they were little. They had a lot of books and I never gave many of them away. So now my daughter's moving into the house and she...

SHAWN STEVENSON: She got the Dr. Suess and the Berenstain bears.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Yeah, so she goes in there. Boxes of her childhood books.

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's awesome.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: So it is so heartwarming because I'll be there and I'll see. They're a boy and a girl, twins, two years old, and like they'll pull out a book. Oh, this book, yeah, I remember I would read that to your mommy. And they're so excited about the books. They will say, again. And then Ray said the other day he was reading a book, which was an old favorite of my daughter. He said, again and again and again. Like, yeah. I love it, cause I was, my first career was in learning disabilities and I trained in communicative disorders and I helped kids who were speech delayed, who had trouble understanding language for example. And so I was always just really valued the importance of language and so much that parents can do to help their kids to reinforce language. And so yeah, so that's what I'm, I'm just thrilled when I see them. That's amazing. Paying attention to books. They come and sit on my lap and I'll just say, read this. And so I love that.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And they're at that age where they went the same thing again and again and again.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Again and again and again. There was this one book, um, Ray loves Trucks and Trains. Train book. Again. And we must have read it 12 times. Over and over and over. We'd get to the end. Again. It's like, and they've memorized it. So it's such, such fun.

shawn stevenson: Right, Right. As if they're reading it. My youngest son would do that. Like he'd verbatim read the book, but he just memorized it. You know, that's awesome. Well, we have you here. It's very special because we get to really dig into how do you create true longevity, right? And it's such a blessing for us, especially today when there's so much going on in the world. And we are lacking examples right now, unless we live in a respective blue zone or something like that. And so to have you here is very special. And I know that recently, more recently, strength training has become a big part of your life. And you are using strength training to extend your longevity even further and really just the stuff that you're doing. I saw you doing handstands. I saw you, you know, doing the trap bar deadlifts, like all this amazing stuff in your mid seventies now. So if you could, first of all, when did you get into strength training and why is this so important for all of us as we're getting older.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Sure. So strength training was definitely not a thing when I came of age. It wasn't cool. I didn't even had never even been inside a gym. I think I took high school gym, which I hated and I was always the worst one. I'm not exaggerating. When we had to do things like broad jump, I would jump like a foot and that's about it. The worst person last to be picked on teams. And so that was my identity. I'm not an athlete, I'm not good at sports, and I did take dance class from an early age. But that's not really strength training, and I took a long hiatus in college when I was binging on sugar and pretty unhealthy and erratic sleep hours.

And then when, I have to credit Jane Fonda and aerobics and the leotards, the striped leotards with leg warmers. And so there was a local gym that was offering that type of aerobic classes. And so it was the first time I had encountered, it was at that time, there were nautilus machines. And some of us would get to the class either early or we'd stay after this Jane Fonda like aerobics class was over, and we would go through the circuit of nautilus machines. So that was in the 80s. I was in my 30s and that was really the first time that I had encountered something, but it was so haphazard. And of course I was clueless. I had no idea. And I remember that this gym also had an indoor walking track and I was walking with a friend and she looked at it and she said, you know, you have no definition in your arms.

It wasn't a great thing to say, but that really stuck with me. Like, yeah, I'm really flabby. And I was probably on my way to being insulin resistant. And so that was my image of myself. And for a long time, then I got addicted to cardio and had a treadmill at home and the kids were younger. I mean, just everyday I'd get up before they woke up and had to do, you know, five miles of running on the treadmill. I don't think I even brushed my teeth for, I would just like, you know, no water who knew about being hydrated back then.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Just roll out of bed and right to the treadmill.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: And just roll out of bed, put on my gym shoes, got on the treadmill and oh good. I'm sweating. That's great, and I had no idea. You know, again, the importance of that kind of moderation with aerobics and probably burned out my adrenals because I was also, at the time, I was studying for a licensing exam in clinical psychology. And all kinds of, you know, issues with probably disordered eating, still pretty addicted to sugar, high carb diet. And it wasn't really until I spent a lot of years doing yoga and Pilates, and I still do, I actually do that just about every day. But serious strength training, I gotta say, didn't happen until I was like 70. And that was, I turned 70 during the pandemic. I had my 70th birthday party on zoom. And that was when I realized that now I can't go to Pilates classes every day, like I had been, but I can do things at home.

So I started doing push ups. What can I do with my body weight? And so I was able to, I started with pushups. Okay, I can do 20. I can do 40. I got to 300 at one. You know, I could do three. So I was doing 300 pushups every day, still doing handstands and headstands, and that had just been part of my routine for many years. But felt like, Oh, with all those pushups, I'm inside planks and just whatever I could do bodyweight. I'm developing some more muscle. I could feel that that was happening and I was changing metabolically. And then after the pandemic, when I got back into the gym, that was really when I became more seriously committed. And the issue that I had was, and I had some personal trainers, and I had to keep telling them, like, I want to go heavier, because they see, you know, I look frail, and, oh, I'm this frail old lady, like, oh, we'll just give her five pound weights, you know, to do.

And so I had to say, no, that's, you know, I don't need, I'm not here to do bicep curls with you. with you with these light weights. You know, I want to do, I want to do deadlifts. I want to do serious leg presses or serious bench presses. So that's what I have now. I have a wonderful trainer and I just do a limited number of exercises that I think are really efficient. So yeah. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: I could picture you just throwing that three pound dumbbell across the room. Give me something bigger. That's so awesome. Thank you for sharing that because you know, you had the opportunity to experience these different eras of In the mindset around fitness and to see, you know, a lot of people and this is the thing, you know If we're really being honest, there are going to be people who thrive and all these different things. But the vast majority of people like going through the 80s and 90s with the low fat Dogma and you know, it's chronic cardio. You said addicted to cardio And just seeing kind of the fallout of that that people Are still trying to figure out and the thing is these beliefs get so anchored into our minds that sometimes it can takes like a challenging thing or a traumatic thing, like the world shutting down, for example, that gets you to try something different.

And by the way, the comment that she made about your arms, I know for all of us, if somebody make a little comment about your body, nobody asked you, you know, don't comment on somebody's body unless they ask, but I've seen your arms now. I've seen your arms now and I don't want to tangle with you. All right. You've got the definition, but just the sheer fact that you were. You know doing the amount of push ups that you're able to do and I would imagine again you didn't start there.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: No, not at all.

SHAWN STEVENSON: So, what was that like getting started?

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Yeah. So I started with just setting very small goals. So, okay. I can do five pushups like, and I was always going to do the full pushup. So I didn't want to do the ladies pushup, you know, with my knees, which is fine. And I really want to preface this by saying that wherever you're starting is good. And so if you do wall pushups, that's greAt, or if you do with bent knees, that's great. And so it's, but I felt like I could push myself and challenge myself to do a full push up and see how many I can do.

So I started with, I can do 20, then I'll add another set of 20 and now every day I can get up to about 70 and then I'll rest for 10 seconds and then I'll do 10 more or 20 more, I'll get to a hundred. And then in yoga, I decided, well, this, these, they're called chaturanga push ups and where your elbows are at your waist. So those I do every day and into failure and to the floor, because I figured like, okay, that's, I'm probably cheating on my 300 pushups like, you know, I'm not going full the way to the floor, but for chaturanga yoga style push ups. At first I could only do five to the floor and then I do six and I'm now up to 23 without totally collapsing, but I'm going full to the floor.

So, that's probably my true strength is in that type of push up. But, yeah, so I just, those are efficient and squats, that's the other thing that I've been doing. In fact, there's such good research. I just heard Rhonda Patrick talk about this, that you can, every 45 minutes, people who get up and do 10 squats. Especially before or after a meal, it's so, the research, she's saying, it's better than a 10 minute walk, or 30 minutes, she was saying, better than a 30 minute walk after dinner for blood sugar lowering. So I've been doing those every time I'm waiting for my coffee to brew. I'll just do 25 squats. And then I say go back again to brew more coffee or something else during the day then I will do more squats. So those are something that I've added more recently making sure I do squats every day.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I want to ask you about that specifically because what you're talking about or we're kind of putting this cute name Onnit of these exercise snacks, right? And there's a mindset that again many of us grew up with, which is like we need to go to the gym for, you know, an hour or 45 minutes, whatever the case, is to get a "full workout". And the data is now showing that these exercise snacks really do come to complete a whole meal as far as these physical inputs and stimulating muscle growth. And, you know, I think, again, it's, it's a change in mindset. But I want to ask you about that because I remember going to the gym a bunch of times. Like, I, there's certain people that just be at the gym all the time, you know? Like, there'd be these, it's usually older guys.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Yes.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And, you know, and I'm coming into the gym. And they're already there. Maybe they're there for 30 minutes. And then I'm leaving out after 30, 45 minutes and they're, you know, maybe they're having a conversation with me or like, yeah, you know, it's got the first hour and just one more hour to go, you know. And they, and, and this is true, most of the time they look the same all of those years, right? And in their minds, it's just like me coming here and doing this stuff is what is getting results. Now, another caveat, and you did this earlier, it's far better than sitting on the couch, what they're doing. So I want to give them, acknowledge them for that. That's amazing. But what you're talking about is, how do I find something most effective for me where I am right now? And so one of the things you're doing is these exercise snacks. So can you talk about this paradigm of I've got to get this full meal in or nothing at all versus getting in these exercise snacks.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Yeah, so there's two things, one comes from positive psychology and the other is to start with something reasonable, a very small goal, and then the others the effectiveness of snacking throughout the day with exercise. So, if you say, I've got to do this, I've got to be here for an hour, I've got to do this every day, that got to triggers a stress response. You are activating the sympathetic nervous system because it's a demand on your, I have to, and then we do or die, there's no out. But if you say, yeah, I'd like to do more today, but if you say, I'm going to, it's going to be great, I'm going to go to the gym and I'm going to do, you know, three, I'm gonna do one exercise.

I'm gonna pick one machine, or gonna go to the free weights, or whatever it is that. And I, and then it becomes doable because now it's more of a parasympathetic, oh, I can do that. That's easy. And so now you have just distressed, and as a result, you're more likely to follow through. And then in goal setting, what you're doing is setting lower expectations, which is guaranteeing that you are going to do it. Like, if I don't say I'm gonna go and do 300 pushups, I'm gonna say I'm gonna do 10, or I'm gonna do one. Yeah, I can do one. And then you keep going. And so when I go to the gym, one of the things that I've started to do every time I'm there is pull-ups, because it's something that, and my goal.

Probably, and I'm gonna get there without assisted, but I love the machine, that's an assisted pull up and I keep lowering the weight. So making it more and more challenging, but some days I just don't feel like going and I'll just say, well, I'm just going to go and do that and then I'll leave. And I'm fortunate that I live close to a gym, so I can, and I also have a lot of equipment at home that I've invested in because I think that's making it even easier. Oh, I'll just go into the basement and, or into the garage, wherever I have the equipment, and oh, I can just do one thing. I can just jump on the trampoline. And so that exercise, snacking, also, because you do have that five minutes, you do have ten minutes.

So, I work remotely, and I'll often have, oh, I have three minutes before work. Being on a Zoom call. I can do some push ups. I can do some squats. I can do some kettlebell swings. I'm like Ben Greenfield who has kettlebells under his desk. Well, that's what I do as well. So in terms of just getting that one thing and then it re-energizes you and you feel so good. And then you're more likely to go back to it. 

But the other thing I want to say in that we talked about gyms and just grinding it out. What I see so frequently is especially women, my contemporaries, they're on the treadmill, they're on the elliptical and they're on and off for long periods of time and they don't look like they're having much joy.

Then I go to the weight room and yeah, all those older men, sometimes it's just me and all these older guys but very few women, you know, I'm always encouraged when I see. The other day I saw some younger women and they were coaching each other and they were doing some difficult challenging stuff. But most of the time I don't see any women or when I do. They're doing things that are basically no weight their favorites like the hip abductors machines, and they just sit on there. I've said women they're on there. They're texting and they're just like they're just moving their legs in and out. They're not doing anything, but you know, yes, they may feel good, and they might think they, and there's benefit in that, because if you imagine something is happening, then there's actually been research on that. So, it's, I don't want to totally diss them, you know, again, at least they made it to the gym, and they're there. But it's often frustrating, because they can be doing so much more to avoid sarcopenia, and that's the biggest thing that in my age group and as I see people just muscle wasting and not having that strength.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I love that you tied in this paradigm of positive psychology into this and really leveraging the human mind and coming into this a little bit more informed. What we tend to do, you know, and there's different personality types, of course, but it's just like we have, I said it earlier, all or nothing mentality, right? It goes from zero to a hundred and we might set the bar so high that if we don't sustain that thing, we just throw everything out the window. And so I love this paradigm of these exercise snacks and also we're leveraging some kind of basic things in physics in a way like potential energy and kinetic energy. You know objects in motion tend to stay in motion. And it's so funny like once you get going and doing a thing if you're just saying, you know I'm just gonna do one one exercise.

You're probably gonna find you know I'll go ahead and do one more or whatever the case might be or I might go walk Let me just go walk by myself you up for five minutes. And next thing you know, like you're just in the flow and you, you keep going. And so just keeping that in mind, but sometimes it's just getting that, that kinetic energy going, you know, because we have all this potential energy. And so just maybe getting up and just getting outside for a little bit and starting to just move around. As you mentioned, to get any snacks in like in the morning, whether it's some body weight squats. And I also love that you are focused on a goal, and how important that is and for you right now, it's like getting the pull up. And this is something that you know again for a lot of people they would aspire to be able to do And you mentioned having the assisted machines.

There's bands. There's all kinds of things that people can do but you came into this and and I want to go back a little bit with a foundation you had like a bedrock of fitness, right? So you are doing yoga and pilates so even coming into it and your push up goal is different, right? And I love that and I want to just give you this acknowledgment. I love that you said there's an on ramp for everybody, you know so whether it's like push ups on the counter or the kneeling push ups just start somewhere and you know set a goal for yourself. And what I wanted to say was what you are talking about is progressive overload right? And this is the key to building and maintaining our muscle. So for you it can be Advancing in the amount of weight that we're doing.

It could be advancing in the number of reps we're doing. It could be advancing in the number of sets that we're able to do. There's so many different ways to hit this progressive overload, but that's the key, right? To give our bodies that stimulation to get better.

Got a quick break coming up. We'll be right back. There are several types of protein supplements available on the market today from plant source to animal source, but the vast majority of clinical evidence supporting the benefits of using a protein supplement are from studies done on whey protein. A randomized double blind study published in the Journal of Nutrition found that overweight test subjects who instructed to consume whey protein daily for 23 weeks lost more body fat mass, had a greater loss in waist circumference. And a greater reduction of circulating ghrelin levels, which is our major hunger hormone compared to test subjects taking daily soy protein or an isogenic carbohydrate drink.

Now what's really interesting about this study is that. The test subjects were not instructed to make any other dietary or lifestyle changes. Just adding in more whey protein led to these results. Now whey protein has actually been utilized for centuries, dating back to Hippocrates, the father of modern medicine. He utilized whey protein in his practice and referred to it as "serum". Now, today folks are utilizing whey protein, mainly in the domain of supporting muscle gain and really leaning into the metabolic benefits. But the key here is making sure that you're getting it from a great source. Ideally, you're going to be looking for grass fed way that's easily digestible and highly absorbable and a whey protein that doesn't come along with unnecessary high glycemic sweeteners.

And the whey protein that I've been utilizing for years is from the incredible folks at Onnit. Go to Onnit.com/model, and you're going to get 10 percent off their incredible grass fed way. That's O N N I T.com/model for 10 percent off. They also have an incredible plant protein as well. Now, again, the data affirms that certain types of plant protein can be effective for supporting metabolic health. It's just that whey tends to outperform everything else. But if you're looking for a plant based protein, they've got one for you as well. 

So head over there, check them out. That's Onnit.com/model for 10 percent off store wide, including their amazing grass fed whey protein in two incredible flavors. Pop over there and check them out. And now back to the show.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I want to ask you about this because there's, you know, you just mentioned sarcopenia. And our mutual friend and I, of course, I've been hanging out in your world, but Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, she's been sitting in that same chair. And she's really been pressing this into popular culture, this muscle centric medicine paradigm and she's seen it firsthand, you know, working in geriatrics while she was, you know, doing her postgraduate work. And she's like, this is the biggest risk to human health, is muscle loss. And so you are proof positive that you can gain muscle. So you started getting serious about strength training when you turned 70, right? And then to see the progress that you've made is mind blowing. And that's one of the big reasons I wanted to have you here, but can you talk more about that?

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Yes. If you had talked to me when I was in my 60s about being able to gain muscle, I was so discouraged. Like, no matter what I did, I still didn't have muscle. And I would test it. I do an in body. I have one at home, but I also, every time I'm at a conference and they're exhibiting the in body, this is where you can not, you get your weight, but more importantly, it's a measure of skeletal muscle mass. And I looked at, I started doing that like in 2015, 2016, and I could see where I was, and I am seven pounds more. And for a younger person, that might not seem like a lot, like you can put that on in a year, but at my age, so I, that is tracking that. So I can see that, I can see reductions in body fat as well.

But it is being able to increase in small increments. I want to give a shout out to Tonal. That was something I invested in during the pandemic, and had one set up because the reason I like it is that you can add weight in one pound increments. This is something that's, it hangs on your wall. It is driven by AI. It'll correct your, give suggestions if you're not, your form is off. But what I see as a problem is if you're on a machine at the gym, you cannot go up or down more by less than five pounds, sometimes even 10 pounds because they don't have the small attachment and so you can never progress. You feel like, Oh, I'm at this way.

Let's say I'm at 70. I know I could go to 72 or 71 even, but there's no way to do that because you can't keep adding more weight onto this machine. And by the way, I don't think a lot of this gym equipment is designed for women, especially not women my size. It's just, just bio, mechanically, it just doesn't work. But there are parts of the weight room, which always scared me, and I think they scare a lot of women, where you have to move the plates. So, it's not just the pin weight, but you have to actually take these big plates and take them on and off. 

But they do go down to two and a half pounds, so what I found is that, like doing a chest press, for example. Oh, I can put more Weight in two and a half pound increments. But I think there's a lot of people who are so scared of that part of the gym where the weight trainers are, the body builders, that they are, they'll never realize that actually the plates are easier for you to maneuver up or down. So that was something but we need somebody. I've told Gabrielle this you need somebody to design this equipment for women so that you know, it's less intimidating and easier to use for our size. Because and unless if you're working with a trainer, they'll put a pad on the seat and you know help you get into the right position

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, that's and thank you. You said the key word is intimidation, right? And it is kind of being like this invisible rope of, you know, these certain demographics over here, certain demographics over there. But of course that's changing now, thankfully, but there's still, because of our conditioning, a lot of intimidation. What are some things that people can do to kind of lean into that, or to not feel so intimidated and really, access the strength training parts of the gym?

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Yeah, I think the best thing is to work with a personal trainer, and it may not be forever. But just someone who can teach you or you can just have somebody who is working in the gym to take you around to learn how to use the equipment and that can be really really helpful. But I see what most people are doing people do is they'll say they like the classes and I think that's great for camaraderie, for the social aspect, and I love doing classes. For example, I do, I used to do lots of Pilates classes and the socialization factor. So when you're working with someone, let's say you're a coach or you're helping someone who's not in the classroom, into exercise. Well, what brings them joy? Well, if they like to be with other people, then you get them into classes.

But the intimidation factor getting in terms of the resistance training, often it is a combination of being intimidated, but also fear. It's fear of getting injured. Oh, I hear this all the time from my friends. Oh, I can't do that. I have arthritis or I have chronic pain or my knees are bad =and it's really hard to get over that mindset.

And often they've been told by somebody, for example, People with osteoporosis, and I just don't know anybody who doesn't. It's not impacted, sadly. It's a such an epidemic Amongst my contemporaries and they're just afraid and they said oh, I've been told I can't weight lift. I can't do heavy lifting because of my osteoporosis or I can't do certain positions that will well It's often, it's the opposite. If you don't challenge yourself, then you're gonna risk having losing strength, you're losing muscle, and then you will feel weaker, and then your odds of falling and getting injured increase incrementally. But that's really hard to convince somebody.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, and it goes back to something you said at the very beginning identity, you know, you mentioned your identity in high school and You know the broad jump and being picked last and just like I'm not athletic.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: That's right.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right, and really we our identity is the driving force for all of our decisions, our thoughts about ourselves, about our ability to do things in the world. And so addressing this at the identity. And this leads into a really important part of this conversation, which is a real, real fortunate opportunity for all of us to have you here because you've been in this field long before the term was even created of positive psychology. And I remember taking psychology in college and I just, I literally was just like, damn, we have so many problems, right? Just like we were so, the whole class is just about all the messed up things about humans, like all the messed up ways that we can be.

And there isn't a study on how right we can be in like, what are the qualities. of happiness, of fulfillment, of, you know, what are those characteristics or choices that can help to create a healthy human psyche? So can you share what attracted you to positive psychology and how did that differ really from the conventional training? Again, I know that you were exposed to like, what made you think like, you know what, there's a another part of this story that's not getting talked about.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Yeah. Well, it's really started when I was getting my master's in learning disabilities and I worked in a clinic that was involved with diagnosing kids. And this was, it was brutal for these poor kids. They would come and it was often two days of testing. They would have hundreds of tests in every area of learning, processing and achievement tests and IQ tests. And yeah. And then we had to write these reports after we had a conference, determined what type of learning disabilities.

At that time, this was before even ADD, ADHD had that formal name. But we were looking at these kids and the whole focus was on what's wrong with them. And I remember writing these reports that were all about how the processing difficulties they were having and what needed to be done in terms of remediation. And I thought, there's something really wrong here because I would see this kid and thought, he's so clever. He just, it was such a clever answer. He made me laugh and answering this question in an IQ test, or he's so good at sports, his eyes light up when he talks about something he loves. And this kid's really creative and funny and full of zest, which is a better way in positive psychology than talking about being very distractible and hyperactive.

And so it started there, where I would always add in my reports a whole section about strengths and focusing on that and guiding parents to focus on the strengths that they were seeing in their kids. And then, as a clinical psychologist, it was all about, what's wrong with you? You're damaged, either need medication or you need psychotherapy for years and years and years because you've been damaged. And so, and I don't want to say that the field is wrong and many people do have legitimate disorders, but what we weren't looking at was what's right with people and what do you need to thrive. What's right with you, not what's wrong with you. And so now we ask the question, what's strong with you? And it's really powerful.

And the whole field of positive psychology is looking at what do people need to thrive? What's a life well lived? And we need positive emotions. We need to be deeply engaged in something that we love. We need relationships that are meaningful. a sense of meaning and purpose in our life, achievement, which for some people, it's just I got up and made the bed or we're talking about, I went to the gym today. Maybe I didn't work out as much as I wanted to, but I made it. I showed up. And so we get there. We thrive based on these innate strengths that we have, which have to do with bravery or curiosity, love of learning, zest, creativity, humor. And so as you nurture these strengths in yourself, in others, particularly in your kids, then they are expressing those and that's how we thrive.

And so, it's really turning the field around, and it's remarkably effective, and it's effective because it directly impacts the parasympathetic branch, the autonomic nervous system. If you are feeling, if you're in, if you're thriving because you are using one of these strengths that you have, then you are, it's, you're in that zone. And so that is both emotionally as well as physiologically healthy and rewarding. So, that's how I've always had that perspective. Whether I was way back as an educator or, in clinical psychology or, now training health coaches.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Because, you know, just tying this back to identity, you know, what happens when a child is told they have this problem? And there's nothing they can do about it. And this is what makes it difficult for you. This is why, you know, you need help that other kids don't need. You're different and not in a particularly special way that becomes rooted in their identity. And it's very difficult, especially today, which you've probably seen this explosion.

We've had many different psychiatrists and psychologists talking about this, that diagnoses like ADHD has gone up precipitously like it's not just better diagnosing. It's just the condition, right? The labeling of course the condition and the labeling has just skyrocketed and it's creating a generation of kids who feel like there's something wrong with them. 

If they're not coming in contact with somebody like yourself who's looking at okay. And I there's a specific when you were sharing that story just about observing kids I was thinking about this really amazing kid that I was around who had been medicated for ADHD. Since he was basically in kindergarten, and I thought it was so unfortunate because I noticed and also, you know It's some time this was during when things were shut down. And so there were some times when he wasn't on the medication. And I noticed he was more active, like he'd be moving around, like, we're just talking, you know, I'm talking to, you know, talking to some kids and, and he's bouncing around, like, next thing you know, he's like over here, he's behind the couch.

And then I'd ask him about something that we talked about the day before, like, I know he doesn't remember this because he wasn't, he remembered everything that I said, like, it was scary. He remembered it so clearly, but he was embodying it as he was moving around. It's just, he felt comfortable moving. And that's, this just speaks to the temperament of different people. You know, we created this paradigm of, you know, taking children with all this energy and forcing them to be still all day every day in order to fit in and to be a good kid. And not to say we don't need those skills to be able to to center ourselves to calm down but just beating that life out of kids. And also missing out on the fact that different people learn different ways and there's genius in everybody. And instead of looking at how smart you are looking at how you're smart, right? And that's what you were doing. You were looking at how is this kid smart? How are they? Special and remarkable in a positive way, so they have something that they can embed in their identity.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Oh, absolutely. And so many of those traits that we call ADD can be turned around. They're zest. It is creativity, for example. I love, a number of years ago, Dr. Mark Hyman, who we both know, was being honored and in his acceptance speech, he said, I want to thank my ADD because if I didn't have ADD, I would still be a conventional doctor in my office, just, you know, treating patients. But because of my ADHD, I was able to, I just, took those risks and I was able to establish, you know, things that I'm doing now that give my life so much meaning and purpose and have helped so many thousands of people.

So, and I think the same way. So if I, cause I always think that I have ADD as well. And girls do display it differently. Young girls often are more inattentive type, um, or they'll display ADHD differently. But I always saw that in myself. But I would, I would still, I would be retired on a teacher's pension right now, um, if I didn't have ADD. And that led me to, and people will say, Oh, you're always reinventing yourself. You've gone through so many careers. You know, you're a teacher, you're a psychologist, you know, you know, you're started a company at 65. But yes, I think by ADD, because otherwise I would have just be retired and playing Canasta.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, I'm interested in different things. I like to diversify. I have a different focus. I want more variety. You know, there's so many different ways that we can look at a thing or again, conventional medicine has diagnosed all these people and created lifetime customers. You know, oftentimes and it's very unfortunate. But also you said this earlier again, there is a place for all of these things even if you know these very real Psychological disorders that can take place. But this is in the minority, like minority minority of the population a lot of issues are just issues that result from being human You know, and I was just talking about this recently.

Obviously there's another epidemic of anxiety and there's a lot of things to be anxious about today. And we also live in an environment that's very different where there's constant access to all these things. We're not wired up to be able to thrive in this kind of environment. This is not something we evolved with. And so it's not a matter of being wrong to have anxiety. It's a matter of having it for no good reason. You know, and also, even with that, being able to, having it for no good reason, but maybe there is a reason and we need to have that internal investigation, right, and having those tools. And I feel that these are some of the things that, you know, absolutely need to be in our education system.

And some schools are picking this stuff up and it's changing, especially in the university context and starting to change the curriculum and to provide more focus on these things because this is really what life is all about. You know, you said one of the aspects of positive psychology has to do with relationships and our relationships, the data is in now. It's the most influential factor on our lifespan, our health span, our success in life, and pretty much everything that we can think of. Our relationships are that impactful. When do we learn about cultivating good relationships? Like the most important thing, when do we learn about that in school? We don't. You're just kind of thrown into it, figure it out, right? And many of us don't, and we struggle.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Exactly. Yeah. And I think there's something else at play here. So even if we have those opportunities to develop relationships that are positive and meaningful. We are looking at anxiety, I think, with a just a lens that is not wide enough because we need to look at how we're living our lives and first and foremost the food we're eating. I'm a student. I know it's ultra processed food well if you are not getting the right nutrients. If you are not getting adequate protein and that is something I that's something I've changed dramatically in my lifetime. My approach to eating and getting sufficient protein, but your brain's then been hijacked, so you can't make good decisions. Your executive functioning is dependent on those nutrients. Well, if you are starving your brain of those nutrients because what you are eating or not eating, then your decisions will not be rational and you will be on edge and you'll be more prone to anxiety and panic attacks. 

I used to treat panic attacks for many, many years and saw this firsthand and people would clean up their diet. They would eat better and also getting movement, going back again to, you know, going out and taking a walk. If you're stirred up, if you're stressed, if you're low energy, if you're depressed, think you're labeling yourself as depressed and feeling hopeless. Go out and take a walk and nine times out of ten, you come back and, oh, I'm feeling better. See clearer, become, you know, your mind is able to then problem solve and a solution comes to you. Whereas if you didn't take that walk, that wouldn't happen. So it's all of those factors, adequate sleep, adequate hydration. And so that is, it's frustrating because I don't see people, especially those who are in mental health, taking that into account. They're not looking at the big picture of everything in a person's life.

SHAWN STEVENSON: At this point, it should be Captain Obvious, you know, that biology and psychology, we can't separate the two, you know. And so if we're not checking these boxes, first and foremost, and giving your time, your body time to heal and acclimate to all those very necessary, like, we'll, we'll just put it like this, required inputs for your genes, right? Your genes expect certain things for a certain type of expression. If you're not checking those boxes and then jumping right to again, labeling, you know, this particular medication protocol. And again, that can be helpful, but if we're not addressing the root cause, and I want to ask you about this one specifically. You mentioned the nutrition component and the only time I experienced a stint of anxiety was probably about 15 years ago.

And I remember like. I would have this feeling of worry and anxiety and just like, it was just, it would happen when I was by myself. And I just so happened to be eating a low fat, raw food diet at the time, alright, which would have been great at first! But, and over time, and I, the thing was for me, it was just when I was by myself it would happen. Then it started to pop up when I was around other people all of a sudden. Then it would start to pop up, like it just kept creeping more and more into my life, like this feeling of some, like this, I'm worried. I'm worried. And I didn't get, I didn't have the label of anxiety at the time, you know, just in my psychology, I was just like, why am I feeling like there's something wrong or just like nervous.

And again, that was years ago and being able to address those nutrient inputs changed everything, changed everything. And I found out, and this is one of the things I've been working to talk about because everybody's experience of anxiety or any of these conditions is different. It's all unique and it's paying attention to the purpose. So we're not saying this is going to fix everything for everybody, but your nervous system is insulated by fats, right? And I'm, I'm on a low fat diet basically, you know, and I'm not getting the, and also even with the low fat diet, you might not be getting the fats that your body needs, right? You could be eating a bunch of cashews and maybe your body is like, no, I need, I need these omega threes from fatty fish and from eggs, right?

And it's like insulation for your nervous system. And really like my nerves were just exposed. And so I was just so sensitive to the environment. And, and I want to kick this back to you with this question, because you mentioned protein. And this boils down to, and I want to talk about this in the context of longevity. That's the question I'm going to ask you about. But in the context of mental health and anxiety, many of our most important hormones that regulate all that stuff, these are neural peptides that are built from protein. They're built from amino acids. If you don't give your body these inputs, It's going to struggle to make the things that just help you to feel like you, you know, so again, the importance of protein, let's talk about this. If you have anything to add to that, and also in the context of longevity. Have you changed your position on protein coming from the low fat paradigm that, you know, many of us grew up with.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Thousand percent I've changed. So I've lived through all these diet trends. And I have to preface this by saying when I was in my twenties, my early twenties especially, I would get horrible panic attacks, but never tied them to what I was eating. What was I eating? Probably 90 percent of my diet was sugar. I would just, you know, I would just binge on sugar. And then think, carbohydrates, and sweets. I was teaching, and I would, oh we had, we had snack time and, oh yeah, bags of M& Ms. And I remember just mindlessly eating those. And then, thinking, Oh, I've put on a few pounds, well, I better diet.

What was the diet like? It was just like, Oh, I'll eat a bag of carrots. And, uh, you know, but it was basically very clueless on nutrition. And then I decided I was going to change my ways. Well, that was during the fat free craze. And so how do we do that? Well, it is by the, I was fat free. I was macrobiotic for a while and I look back and really regret the, but I thought well, if I'm not feeling good, if I have no energy. I'll just double down. And so I remember when this was probably in the nineties and I took a lot of dance classes cause my daughter, I was homeschooling my daughter and she was in entertainment. And so she took classes and I would often accompany and dance with her in those classes. But I mean they're always upstairs with this long hallway. This long flight of stairs.

Remember I just have no energy. Well, of course I had no energy I was eating a banana for breakfast. I'm just grabbing that and leaving the house and or make me juice. I would have a juice and I'm not feeling good. Well, I'll just add more kale to the juice then, you know double down on what I was doing. And so then I started to, it was not until I started really looking at the importance of protein with people like Gabrielle Lyon. So I gradually started eating, I did, I did the vegan, I did the raw vegan. That was when I felt absolutely the worst, raw vegan. But you know, so many of us didn't know. We thought that was, you know, the healthier way to be and in fact at the time I remember I was always arguing with my husband because he never was into all these fads.

He just had a meal. He just was this old fashioned guy like you got to have an entree, you got to have meat or chicken. You got to have a side and a salad or that and I remember arguing him like you are just so unhealthy. This is awful. Like, you know, you you can't eat all this this meat. This is terrible for you, well now it's this the opposite. And so now I crave meat. Red meat is my favorite thing to eat and I follow Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. And she said, Sandy, like, and I hadn't, I had been intermittent fasting for a while. And she said like, no, it's your weight. You cannot intermittent fast at your age. And so you need to eat breakfast. And so now it's like I eat so much protein.

But what I find in regards to your question on longevity is that especially my baby boomer generation, especially women. It's so ingrained to just, to count calories, to focus on weight, and also to think that it's not good to have too much protein, or it's even a sense of like, not being accustomed to eating a lot, especially red meat. So, if we're at a restaurant and I order a steak, I'll often get comments, oh, that's a lot of food, or oh, gosh, you're always changing, I thought you, you were a vegan, and, you know, you're always reinventing yourself, and as if it's a fad. But it's really the science has changed, and we're so much more aware, but, I feel a thousand percent better with now, you know, having, having ample protein and, and there's just research coming out on the, how much you, the plant based protein doesn't cut it.

You know, as Dr. Lyon said, how much you'd have to eat, like you'd have to eat like a, a bowl full. Like, I'm not talking just a, you know, not a, a, an individual bowl, but you'd have to have a huge serving size bowl, like a popcorn, you know, size bowl filled with legumes to get the right amount of protein compared to having, you know, having some beef or, fish or that type of protein. It's much more, it's better for you. So, it is really sad. Again, as I'm seeing my contemporaries though, they're, they're not in the gym with resistance training, building muscle. They're also not eating adequate amounts of protein. And I just see the people saying, you know, how they're struggling with having the strength to, you know, getting up off the floor, for example.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Wow. And also that bowl of beans, the carbohydrate fraction, is astronomical at that point as well. And this is not to villainize beans, right? The beans are not the problem. The problem is, are you getting in adequate amounts of protein? And And what this really is, you know, even hearing you share this and being with somebody who's like, you've gone through all of the different things that were in vogue to find out, to bring yourself back to what did humans evolve doing? You know, like, that's really that's what this particular diet framework is. And it's, it's more inclusive rather than excluding things. You know, and that's really the hallmark of most of these diets is like, it's, we're, we exclude all this other stuff. That's why we are this type of diet.

And humans don't operate that way. Like, humans, Our ancestors figured some stuff out over thousands of years of experimenting and, you know, centuries of testing and also sharing the data that they've learned, passing it down from generation to generation. Only recently, we just threw a complete monkey wrench into this. That's such a weird sentiment, by the way. It just hit me. We threw a monkey wrench into the situation, just like, you know what? We're gonna do a diet that excludes all animal products, right? I know that there's no historical reference for something like this, but and then people we get into the argumentative mind. Well, what about this sect of people who live in the mountains over here and da da da da. What is the majority of human beings like this is going to be a social experiment if we're just excluding this class of foods that we evolved consuming.

Now there are great cultures that have a vegetarian framework for sure But they're getting animal products through, you know, dairy and things like that. And the blue zones have really been glorified obviously for their nutrition and what is. And i'm really sick of it actually because they hyper focus On the plant inputs, which is important. It is so important, but they minimize like a place like Sardinia, for example, or Okinawa, and that they're eating pork or, you know, they're eating a really ample amounts of seafood, but it's just, I don't know. They're just, they it's green tea and they're eating seaweeds all day. Tofu. Don't leave out all the other stuff because what that is, it's an omnivore diet.

And we're saying all this to say, and I think you'll agree with me on this is that all of these different diet frameworks are possible. And some people are gonna thrive on them. There are people who on a raw vegan diet kick that ass They took ass and kicked names, all right. I don't know if you caught I reversed those words. But many of those folks and I know many of these folks because they're my friends, my friends and colleagues. Evolved out of that because they felt like you felt like I can't get up these stairs. And but then there's people and what happens is people who have been doing it for a long time like oh, you're just doing it wrong. Or especially people who just getting started with it who are feeling good, will tell old timer you know, you're just doing it wrong.

I remember having that thought when one of my raw food heroes or teachers, like he said, he's eating, you know, these cooked foods now. I'm just like, ah, you're, you've given up, you know, you're not part of the guild. And in reality, he had figured out like, I'm missing this thing over here. And this makes me feel like I can get up that flight of stairs.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And often you feel good. At least this was my case, in the short run, because it's what you're not eating. So you're not eating all that ultra processed junk food. You're not going to McDonald's and getting French fries and milkshakes. 

And so that is why you're feeling good, but it's not sustainable. And especially as you get older. It's not sustainable. And so that's what I have. It's so frustrating again to people who are still vegan after many, many years and they can't understand why they're having all these health issues. And again, they just double down on being vegans. But, and it is also I think there's something else that has to do, we talked about the blue zones.

It is the sense of community and attachment. So, I remember once somebody was saying to me, Oh, she was arguing for being a vegetarian. Oh, but the Loma Linda, which is a blue zone, well, they're seven day adventists and they are vegetarians, but they're also the most closely knit community. And I remember of one woman, she was over 100 was profiled. She was still driving, pumping your own gas. But every day she went to her church, the basement, they had some quilting bees going on and she was, it's that community. It's that connection that gives you meaning and purpose. And I think that is what trumps everything else. And so all the communities that are the blue zones have that. Where you see people walking together and they're also physically active as well.

But is that sense of being together and having that close knit community with shared values, I think is really important for longevity. And I do want to say something as we're talking about what we need for longevity. And that is to talk about my ballet classes. So I take ballet class three times a week. And it is, these are classes for older people, and what happens is that you, if you're in, if you're doing some movement that you love, and I think there's nothing better than dance, so it really is a trifecta. It's good physically, because you're moving, and it can be really challenging types of movement, but it is also really great for your brain.

Because learning these kind of dance combinations can be challenging. You have to focus and pay attention. It is good because for that time, it's like meditation. You lose sense of anything else because you got to focus on the routine that is being taught. And it is community, because particularly this one class that I go to, we have get togethers before, afterwards. People are inviting some people in the class over to their homes, and so we've all become really close in the class. There's a woman in this class, she is in her 90s. Her name is Ula. She comes there and she has so much energy and she said she's been taking class for years. She's not a professional dancer. Nobody is in these classes, but nobody cares what you look like. But that is I think just the essence of preserving longevity is that being in a class like that, with others and you are enjoying the movement. You're not thinking of it as exercise that's grueling and you're getting so much benefit. It's good for balance. It's good for coordination.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I love that. Oh, and also that gives you that aspirational thing, you know, seeing her, we all need that. And that's what we're all getting from you today, truly. So if you could, I've got a final question for you. 

And this has to do again, circling back to the very beginning about identity, right? So what if we have told ourselves a story about what is not possible for us, right? So again, I'm the person who I'm not athletic, you know I am intimidated with you know, going to the gym or trying these different things. And I want to be healthy. I want better for myself, but I just don't see my myself as that person. What can we do as far as maybe some inner work or to change our identity in a way so that we can access that greater health that we aspire to it.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: So I've said for many many years. It's always been my mantra, what's real in the mind is real in the body. You picture it first, you imagine, you picture in a lot of detail what you want. And as you picture that, and that process of picturing, it could be visual, it could be auditory, it could be tactile. So it's using your senses, but it is having an image, having a sense of yourself, the way you want to be. So it is imagining what you want. So it's going through a crowd and seeing yourself seeing your immune system as alive and healthy and working for you.

And I've used that a lot, you know, during the pandemic. Calling on my immune system, and it is often talking to yourself. That's that self talk we get from cognitive behavioral work where I want to do this. Not I have to do this. And then it is that focus. It's a laser focus. On what you want. So I do not see myself as old. Except when I look in the mirror. I don't see myself, and I, you know, I'll see wrinkles, and I, but I don't care about all that on a surface level. But inside, I feel no different. I feel, in fact, I have more energy than I have. In my twenties and thirties and doing things like every day I do handstands no matter what I just get up in the water.

In fact, I travel with my mat because I can only do it with a mat. But I just picture that this is just something I'm going to do. There's no doubt about it. It's just like this focus on what I want to do and that I'm just going to continue doing this. And I also look ahead with excitement and curiosity. Because I think when you lose curiosity, that's a key to, again, to, to getting older and being in decline. So, curious about people. I love meeting new people of all ages. So, I love having friends that are much younger than I am. Again, just because it is, it's fun to learn new things to be with people of all ages.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Well, we're besties now. So Yeah, I appreciate you so much for coming to hang out with us. And if you could can you let people know where they can get more information about you what you're doing. The work that you're doing. Incredible gift that you're sharing with everybody as far as education.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Sure. So, it is on Instagram, I'm Dr. Sandy, that's D R S A N D I, Functional Medicine Coaching Academy is functionalmedicinecoaching.org. Functional Med Coach on Instagram. And reach out to me, I love to connect with people. And my mission is to have a health coach in every doctor's office because the world is hard hurting chronic disease, such an epidemic. And I think health coaches are the key. So that is my mission in life to inspire people to become health coaches, to work with health coaches.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Boom. Awesome. Again, I appreciate you so much. This has been so fun. Thank you.

DR. SANDRA SCHEINBAUM: Oh, thank you. It's been awesome.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Dr. Sandra Scheinbaum, everybody. Thank you so very much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this. Please give some love to Sandy, take a screenshot of this episode, tag her on Instagram, of course, tag me as well so I could see the love too. I'm @Shawnmodel on Instagram. We'll put all of her information for you in the show notes, but that would really, I know, really fill her heart today. And she shared so many incredible insights and these are the gifts that we receive from conversations like this and access to individuals who've found certain things and figure certain things out, and they're able to share their wisdom with us. And, you know, I'm very, very grateful for this opportunity to be able to have people to aspire towards, you know, picked up things along the way so we can get these gifts, apply them in our lives and share them with the people that we care about.

And that's what it's all about. We've got some epic masterclasses and world class guests coming your way very, very soon. So make sure to stay tuned, take care, have an amazing day. And I'll talk with you soon. And for more after the show, make sure to head over to themodelhealthshow.com. That's where you can find all of the show notes. You can find transcriptions, videos for each episode. And if you've got a comment, you can leave me a comment there as well. And please make sure to head over to iTunes and leave us a rating to let everybody know that the show is awesome. And I appreciate that so much and take care. I promise to keep giving you more powerful, empowering, great content to help you transform your life. Thanks for tuning in.