SHAWN STEVENSON: When you hear the word detox, what comes to mind for you? Some people might conjure up ideas about detoxification from substance abuse and going to a clinic. Others might think about the detox phenomenon in the wellness space with all these different products and solutions and other people might think about the detox album from Dr. Dre that never came out. He said he's working on the album for years, never came out. So whatever your definition of detox is, I'm going to share the Oxford definition of the word detox. And detox is defined as the process of removing toxic substances or qualities. All right. The process of removing toxic substances or qualities. So maybe our mission needs to be aimed at removing toxic substances from our environment, from our bodies, but we also might need to remove some toxic qualities. All right. So maybe these are qualities of character. Maybe these are qualities of our environment and the people around us. Detox can mean a number of things.

But on this episode today, we're going to look at the science of detoxification and it is multifaceted indeed. And there's also this paradigm with anything that becomes popular, there's going to be pushback on whether that thing even exists in the first place. Detoxification is something that our cells our organs our tissues naturally do, but the truth is these processes can be inhibited and we can experience a myriad of diseases and dysfunction because of that.

Endotoxemia, for example. Excessive inflammation in the body and a plethora of diseases that come from that. The list goes on and on and on. And actually today you're going to learn how body fat is intimately related to detoxification. So this episode is incredibly powerful and it's with one of my favorite experts in the health and wellness space, a true pioneer in the field of cardiology and in the field of detoxification. But first let's get into the Apple podcast review of the week. 

ITUNES REVIEW:  Another five-star review titled, Very Informative by Bud Will. Very informative and entertaining to listen to Shawn. I love that you can get high quality and real information about all things health. Plus a lot of laughs. Very refreshing. Thanks, Shawn. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Thank you. And thank you for that acknowledgement. I truly do appreciate that. And listen, if you've yet to do so, please pop over to Apple Podcasts and leave a review for the Model Health Show. Share your voice. Share your heart. It really does mean a lot. And without further ado, let's get to our special guest and topic of the day.

Dr. Alejandro Junger is a renowned cardiologist, functional medicine physician, and the founder of the CLEAN program. Dr. Junger is a New York Times bestselling author and the go to expert for some of the fittest and healthiest big screen superstars like Zoe Saldana and Gwyneth Paltrow. With decades of experience in medicine, Dr. Junger has dedicated his career to uncovering the root causes of complex health issues that often seem unrelated. His innovative protocol focuses on the science of detoxification and clinically proven strategies for improving health at the cellular level, reducing inflammation, improving energy, and transforming health and fitness from the inside out. Let's dive in this conversation with the incredible Dr. Alejandro Junger. All right, my friend. I'm so happy to see you. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER:  I'm so happy to see you. Thank you for having me. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Of course, of course. As a renowned cardiologist, and you've worked with people with a variety of health issues over the years, what was it that triggered you to start to focus on detoxification for your patients?

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Well, what started me was getting sick myself. I was, I went to medical school in Uruguay and life in Uruguay was very healthy by default. We didn't have supermarkets. We didn't have processed stuff. You know, it was, it was healthy by default. There were no chemicals given to cows or chickens or, you know. So, so I grew up that way. My mom used to prepare every meal from scratch. And then when I graduated from medical school, I moved to New York to do my internship and residence in internal medicine, my fellowship in cardiology. And my lifestyle was so drastically changed from eating homemade meals with natural stuff, real food, to eating all kinds of processed stuff.

You know, I was fascinated because I'd say, Oh my God, these Americans, look at them. You get this colorful box, you put it in the microwave, in five minutes you have something that looks like what your mother took half, half the day to prepare, you know, smoking like, like a piece of meat with a potato, mashed potato. And it looked like what my mother made, right? But obviously it wasn't. So I started gaining weight. And then by the first year I started having seasonal allergies that later turned into year round ordeal. And then I started having digestive problems with a, you know, bloating, constipation, diarrhea, pains, and, and then I started getting really depressed. Like, really depressed. To a point that, you know, I didn't do anything because I couldn't do that to my parents. 

But I didn't even go further in the, down the line of the thought of how to do it or anything. But I wanted to give up. I wanted, so I took a few days off. And I was working at Lenox Hill Hospital at that time doing my cardiology fellowship and Lenox Hill has really good specialists And I knew most of them because you know all departments crisscross. So I went to see the best guardian, gastroenterologist, a really great allergist, and a psychiatrist. And in a few days, I got three diagnoses and seven prescription medications, right. And then, so I get home that day, And I put all the prescription medications on the table and I'm looking and I know by that time I'm already a doctor.

And I know that these chemicals are not going to correct the problem. They're not gonna, I mean, I used this word now, at that time I didn't, they're not gonna heal the problem. I don't use the word cure, but they're not going to really resolve the underlying dysfunctions. They're going to just force certain chemistry in the body that will suppress the symptoms, right? And they come with side effects, which you never can predict. And the combination of medications gives you sometimes side effects that are not even described. So I said this, I don't want this. And immediately, I realized, not only for myself, I don't even want to do this for my patients, because you know medicine is a conveyor belt business. People come in and out in five minutes and you have to end up giving a prescription. Sometimes, just to even defend yourself from a possible lawsuit. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Standard of care. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Yeah. Oh, you didn't give him this many, oh, boom. You know, you have to pay, so, and they teach you that during your training. They say when you do something and then you write it down in your notes. Imagine that you are in court and there's a jury and there's a judge and you're so that's how they teach you to write the progress. Anyways, I said this is not for me and I started looking for a solution, a different solution. The story is long, you know, it took me around the world. I lived in a monastery in India for some time where I was exposed to Ayurvedic medicine, Chinese medicine, and many other things, meditation, of course.

And when I came back, even though being in the monastery was in a way relieving some of my symptoms, because there you eat vegan food and it's made with love and we're meditating half of the day and you know. So I did get a little better, but then I came back to the United States and started working at Desert Regional Medical Center in Palm Springs and other hospitals around the area. And again into the rat medical industry world where you have seven minutes per patient at max, you know, and you go back to eating from hospital cafeterias and you know. So and the stress is crazy. So I might the little bit of the symptoms that had a relieved in India came back with a vengeance. At that time, somebody came to my house and grabbed me and took me to a detox center in Palm Springs, which is a famous one.

It's called the we care spa. The owner is Argentinian. So we started discussing and I told her my symptoms. I asked her what is it that people do here? And she said detox and I was like what drug addicts come here. She's in another that kind of detox. I Had never heard of detox in medical school unless related to alcohol or drug addiction, right? So she said why don't you do the program? So I did 10 days, but I couldn't stay there. I used to go do my rounds in the hospital and then run there get a colonic and get all the you know, the probiotics and this and that and drink some juices that that place is intense. It's only juicing. I don't recommend that at home. If you want to do it, you have to do it in a you know, to retreat, right?

So, I did that and all my symptoms disappeared, but not only that, I looked and felt 10 years younger. Now, imagine a cardiologist coming into this place, drinking juices, getting colonics, taking probiotics and resolving the problems that Western medicine was giving me seven prescription medications to attempt to do something. And which I knew wasn't going to completely work. I was blown away, but I didn't understand. So I started studying. And I started studying from the books that this lady would recommend. You know, Arise and Shine, and then, like, Treehuggers, and, and, you know, which I, I completely respect, and I love, and they gave me great information, but my medical mind was trying to understand what was going on until I found functional medicine.

And when I found Functional Medicine and did their first course, the AFMCP, Applying Functional Medicine in Medical Practice. I was just blown away because that they gave me the clear difference between Western modern medicine and functional medicine. Which is simply explained like this Western modern medicine divides and conquers meaning. They divide the body in organs and as if each organ was disconnected from the other Right? So you have a problem in your heart, you go to the cardiologist. You have a problem in your gut, you go to the gastroenterologist. You got a problem in your liver, you go to a hepatologist. And, and like that for every organ in the body. Sometimes there's specialties for the thumb and then for the index.

I mean, it's, it's a, it's really specialty and subspecialty and none of the specialists are communicating with each other. So you go to the cardiologist, they give you a medication that may give you itchiness. So you go to the dermatologist and they give you another medication which may make you constipated. And then you go to the, you know, but nobody's asking and nobody's looking. It's really a little bit of a mess. As opposed to that, functional medicine, which is a new way, relatively new way of organizing all the information that we already know, all the scientific data. Even the tests and the machinery, everything, but organizing it a different way, which is dividing the body in systems and knowing that all systems are interconnected.

So in functional medicine, there's seven systems that are distinguished, right? One is the structure and mobility system, which is membranes, bones, skin, everything that gives the body shape and structure. So that you could walk and stand and occupy your space in, you know, in your volume in, in, in space, right? There is the digestive and absorption system, which is in charge of getting the outside world, inside the body, right? So that you can use those building blocks because you get, let's say you get a wall and you eat it, it breaks it down into bricks into its minimum components. Those are absorbed and then they are used to build your own wall inside. Proteins, to build your muscles and fats, to build your hormones and things like that.

Then there is the communication system, which is made of two different forms of communication. One is fast and immediate, which is a nervous system. It's electricity running. The other one is the hormonal system which in both communicate. Hormonal system communicates a little slower, right? But it's also very powerful because it reaches every point in your body, right? Then you have the defense and repair system, which is the, the famous immune system, right. And then you have the detoxification system. So, and what is the detoxification system? Well, the body, while it lives and does its thing, and metabolism is producing toxic molecules all the time. For example, CO2, right?

When the mitochondria burns sugar, the result is a TP, which is the energy. Right? And then water and CO2. And the CO2 is, is carbon dioxide. Which goes into the blood, gets dissolved into carbonic acid. Circulates in the blood and when it reaches the lungs by a difference of partial pressures, it goes out and it's exhaled. That's a form of detoxification. Then there's other forms. The liver, the liver grabs all the toxic substances that you produce during metabolism, like for example, lactic acid, ammonia. There's a ton of waste products of your metabolism that need to be neutralized and eliminated from the body.

And a lot of that happens in the liver, but it happens all over, where enzymes break down these toxic molecules and turn them from being only soluble in fat to being soluble in water. And in that way, they can be eliminated through sweat, feces, and urine, right? So, so, yeah. And when you start thinking that way, and you start understanding that all systems are connected. Why? Because different systems use the same organs. Like for example, the gut, which is one of the most famous and in fashion subjects to talk about these days. In the gut, all systems converge. So you have obviously the digestion and absorption system. You have the immune system, 80 percent of the immune system actually lives within and around the gut.

You have a nervous system there that is bigger than, than the one in your, inside your skull. So that's why everybody calls the gut, the second brain. I wouldn't know if I would call it the second brain because in size it's the first brain. And maybe certain functions are really important as well. Yeah, this, this one in the skull gives you reasoning and imagination and hearing and vision, which is really important, but this one gives you intuition. And which, which are you going to trust more. If you are seasoned in life, you know, what your reasoning is saying, which usually is kind of twisted or what your gut is saying, you know, your gut would say, you know, your gut feelings, your intuition. So, so, um, that's why they, we speak so much about the gut because it's where all systems converge.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Yeah. This is so fascinating. And you mentioned, even in your story, how you were getting separated into parts. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Yes. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: And each part is coming along with a prescription and not addressing the root cause. And you had a series of really devastating conditions, right? Ranging from IBS to depression. And all the while you're trying to help other people. And this is that powerful moniker of healer, heal thyself, and finding a way. And with this being said, you brought something, you're the first person to do something like this. You brought something for us to see visually and to take us inside of the gut because even though this is in vogue right now, a lot of people don't get to see what is going on, to actually get a look at this. And what's so important about this is, as you mentioned, this is where so many of these systems, all of the systems are converging. But also, this is an important aspect of detoxification. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Well, the thing is this. I started by learning about detoxification, but then I started understanding that detoxification or enhancing or supporting the detoxification system, which is a very concrete thing, isn't it? You know, everybody uses, not everybody, but some people use detoxification. Most people don't really understand unless they're functional medicine doctors what it really entails. But that alone did not help me help people, not even myself, because after I had that experience at this detox center in Palm Springs. Some things came back and remained and, you know, I, and it took me a few years to understand that yes, enhancing and optimizing the detoxification system is great, but there's something that's even more important or as important, I would say even more important, which is. The integrity of the gut health, which is what so many people are talking about today, but so many people are not really understanding. And what I brought today is a model of the, since this is the model show, I, I, a model of the gut so that when people see this, they would have a better understanding. 

And, what I, and what I see around is that there is not a deep understanding of how to create the conditions for the gut to heal. Because everybody's talking oh, yeah, I take probiotics and so you know, they continue doing their life and they add probiotics. That alone doesn't work. In the case of gut repair, sometimes not even eating perfectly well and using the supplements works. There is a very specific way in which you have to create the conditions for your body to heal. Like, for example, if you break a bone, you have to put a cast. Why? Because if you move your hand, the bone will keep on moving and will never heal. Right? So, in a way, a good gut repair program is like a cast to the body. And there's things that you have to do at certain times and in a very specific way.

It's not just popping the latest, you know, everybody's talking about it. This latest probiotic, acarmancia mucinophila. I don't know if you heard about it and you know, yeah, all the discoveries, but nobody really understands. No, nobody. A lot of people don't, don't understand how to use these things. And that's what I've been doing for 20 years. And when you see, and I, and I show you, you will understand clearly on this model why it is that, that I say that all systems converge in the gut. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Well, let's take us into this incredible world, and help us to understand what's happening inside of us. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: So, the gut is a cylinder. And it, has a, I don't know, 11, 15 feet of, it's like a tube, right? And the tube, what goes in the tube is technically outside of the body until it's broken down and absorbed and taken inside of the body, right? So the gut, the intestinal tube is where all the food is transiting, right? And there is a wall that is the limit between the outside of the body and the inside of the body. So inside the tube, you are literally a technically outside of the body, right? There's something that put a marble and you, you swallow it. It'll go and it'll come down and never went inside your body. The fact that you put it in and you don't see it anymore, makes you think it's inside the body, but it's really literally, technically, not inside the body until it's absorbed, right? 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Don't try this at home. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Yeah. So the wall, the wall of the gut, the nature during evolution understood that eating and digesting and absorbing is, life depends on it, right? So, it evolved in a way that when you put food inside, the body says, Oh, I don't know when I'm going to eat again, so I'm going to kind of slow everything else down. So that I can really put my attention on digesting this and absorbing, because this is what life depends on, right? Throughout evolution for hundreds of thousands of years.

Only recently we have food available 24 7, 365, right? So, the gut evolved in a way that the surface of the wall was increased by turning into foldings and micro foldings. And this is a anatomical model of the micro foldings of the gut, which are called villi and micro villi. So this would be the micro villi. Now, this around here is where the food would be coming and where the bacteria of the microbiome live. Bacteria... 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Can I say something really quickly? 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Yes. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: This is very important. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Yes. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: And by the way, make sure everybody that's listening to the audio version pop over to the YouTube channel so you can see this visually. We're looking at, they're kind of like finger like structures. That are essentially coming out of our intestinal lining. They look like these little fingers. Is that a good way to articulate?

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Yes, it's like as if the wall of your room started folding so that the surface would increase it's, the surface area would increase and the foldings then have micro foldings. So now if we were to Iron this we open the whole intestinal tube and then we iron all this out. The surface that you would get would be between one and two tennis courts, depending on your size and age and height, right? So, it's a huge way of increasing the surface of contact with food, right? And we're, this is also where the bacteria and fungus and all the microbiome creatures live, right?

And this is where digestion happens. All the juices and everything are dumped from the liver and from the gallbladder into this tube. Everything happens here. And this is the wall of the intestine. The famous intestinal wall. And just like your skin is hermetic, nothing is going in. I mean, of course some things are absorbed, right? But, it's here to keep things out of the body. The intestinal wall is also there to keep things out of the body. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: It's semi permeable. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Except when they're broken down to their building blocks. Proteins are broken down to amino acids. Fats are broken down to fatty acids and esters and then big sugars or vegetables or carbohydrates are broken down into simple sugars. And when that happens, the cells of the wall will take from the lumen of the intestine, will take it into the cell. So a little protein would be, a little amino acid would be here. The cell would just grab it and take it in, into the cell. And then on the other side, it will dump it into the blood. See, this is, this is a venous system. This is the arterial system, huge circulatory system. Huge amount of blood is going through the, through the intestines at any given time. And this, and then of course this turns into the vena cava, and then it goes inferior vena cava and then it goes through the liver, first pass it's called, you know. So the very important thing is that the cells of the intestinal wall are tightly joint. 

And this is actually called tight junction. When you look at it under a microscope you see like a thick thing. Just like when you see a brick wall between the bricks you see the cement, there's a type of cement that goes there, that the cells produce, which is part carbohydrate, part protein. It's a complex thing to make and it, you know, it takes a complex mechanism, but it makes this glue that keeps these cells so tight together that nothing can pass in between the cells into the bloodstream. And why is this important? Because the cells are highly intelligent and they know that the only thing they can get and put into the blood are the building blocks, amino acids, fatty acids, and simple carbohydrates. And why is that? Because the body has to defend itself from what is foreign and, but how can you grab foreign stuff and incorporate it to yourself. 

You break it into the building blocks and you absorb. And what happens is the, this is the place where most contact with outside stuff is because your skin, which is one of the limits between the inside and the outside, you know, It's only exposed to your clothing and maybe skin products, you know, soap, but not too much more. Your lungs, which is also a place where there's a, the outside and the inside, there has to be a limit, is only exposed to air. Of course, there's clean air and not clean air, yeah, and maybe the cornea of your eyes. There's only two, three places where there's. a wall between the outside and the inside, right?

The immune system, 80 percent of which is here in the gut. And you can see here, this, this is an augmented view of this little area here, because within this, the, the wall of the gut, there are cells from the immune system. They're also in the blood, but they are there to monitor and and and see what's going on. So when anything is absorbed the immune system cells scan it. The immune system works by recognizing surfaces. As if they had a scanner and each surface creates a code that is compared to a record of all the surfaces that are yours. And when it detects a surface that is not yours, there is a threat.

So it builds an attack. When the building blocks are absorbed, amino acids, fatty acids, and simple carbohydrates, they're not big enough to have a distinguishable surface, so they're neutral. So you absorb those, and then the body will get them and do what it has to do, muscle, bone, you know. But when the tight junctions are lost, and what is called leaky gut, or hyperpermeability, is generated. Now, in between the cells, undigested food starts going through good bacteria, bad bacteria, funguses, viruses. All the zoo that lives within the gut starts going through, which normally it wouldn't, because the wall would be hermetic now they start going through because there's a leak. Now that's why leaky gut and now these bigger molecules have a surface that's distinguishable and Recognizable to the immune system. 

And the immune system immediately starts building an attack. And for example, and this is a very simple explanation. And if a functional medicine professor listens to me, they probably would send a hit man. But let's say you eat chicken, right? It's pure muscle, right? And it's supposed to be broken down into amino acids, but let's say a little piece, bigger than an amino acid, you know, peptides or, little proteins go through and the body recognizes that foreign, but it's still muscle. And the muscle of the chicken is not that different from your muscle.

So when it starts attacking those molecules from the muscle of the chicken, it may also attack parts of your muscle. It's a collateral casualty. But the body says, well, what is, what is more dangerous to have these strangers on the strange surfaces and, and because the body knows that strange surfaces could be catastrophic, you know, it could be bugs. It could be, and so it needs a defensive. So it says, well, maybe we'll also damage our muscle a little bit. But we'll definitely get rid of this chicken muscle, right? Which is the threat and that's how autoimmune diseases are generated. The body is confusing surfaces or surfaces that are passing through similar to surfaces of your body. Like for example gluten has surfaces that are similar to Thyroid surfaces, that's why many times gluten causes an autoimmune response that generates what we know as Hashimoto's disease, right?

So this is, for example, how autoimmune diseases are generated. But so many other things happen, like for example, see this yellow thing here? This is a nerve ending. Now, each microvilli has a nerve ending, and the red part is muscle, to make it contract. You know, like, have you ever been scuba diving? Have you seen the amoebas? You touch them, they, you know, they're alive. And you know what I'm talking about? They're like, like, like sponges, like gelatinous, and they're beautiful, right? And they, and they're similar to this. If you look at them, they have a, you know, like microvilla. And then you touch them and they can contract and go in.

Well, this is the same if you go if you go scuba diving inside your intestine you touch that you would get a reaction. This is alive, right? So there's muscle there and there's nerves. And these nerves are there to regulate for example it regulates the muscle contraction. Why? Because parts of the intestine start contracting and start pushing. This is called the peristaltic movements. Start pushing the foot forward, right, until it leaves the body. So when this nervous system does its work correctly, you're going to have good bowel movements, right? Now this nervous system is also responsible in a, in good conditions to generate neurotransmitters, right?

So it, the, this nervous system generates serotonin, dopamine, all the neurotransmitters that we know today have an important function in the body. Now, imagine now that there's leaky gut, there's an immune response, now the nervous system is now, the whole body is entering into an adaptation and survival mechanism because, and I think we spoke about this the last time I was here. The body doesn't know how to get sick. There are no real chronic diseases. What we see as chronic diseases are just adaptation and survival mechanisms that have gone on for too long. And I think I even explained to you the last time coronary artery disease, cardiovascular disease, which is the number one killer of people in the world, right?

You look at it, you look at the arteries and you see the plaque of cholesterol that sometimes sometimes breaks and forms a clot and a heart attack. Initially, when the, when that started, it was just a survival mechanism and adaptation survival mechanism. Why? Because let's say you have, let's say you are a deer in the forest and a tiger comes around and you start running, you go into fight or flight. Of course, the deer is going to fight a flight from a line and the blood pressure goes up and the heart rate goes up and the adrenaline is going crazy, right. And that stress may cause tiny fissures in the artery. Now, either the tiger eats the deer or escapes. Now, if it escapes, the deer doesn't have what we have, which is the thinking, the constant negative reputation, the rumination.

They go back to being completely present. So, the injury of high blood pressure and that stops and the artery now starts to heal. Now what happens when you cut your skin? There's a scab that forms and under the scab the skin heals. What happens when the artery gets a little fissure? The body deposits cholesterol. The artery heals under the, and then the cholesterol is reabsorbed. And this was already proven by Dean Ornish, I don't know if you've heard of him, you know, he did cardiac catheterization, showed the plaques in the arteries, then put people on meditation and healthy diet and then repeated the study a few months later and the plaque is disappearing, is getting reabsorbed.

So if you have coronary artery disease, it's not a disease, it's an adaptation mechanism that's that's turned on for too long. Why? Because as opposed to the deer that escapes and goes back to being present, human beings are never. They're always in fight or flight reaction, and not even for real situations, for imagining situations. I myself go into it, you know, I get angry with this one, and I start thinking, and what he's going to say, and what I'm going to say, and my blood pressure goes up as if this was a true event, but it's just something that I'm thinking about, right? So the constant injury keeps the body defending and adapting, adding cholesterol, but at one point, this defense and adaptation mechanism turns into a problem. Why? 

Because the cholesterol is so much that it impedes the blood flow. And if it breaks, it forms a clot and gives you a heart attack. This is what kills most people in the world, right? I don't see it as a disease. I see it as an adaptation and survival mechanism that it's turned on for too long. And then eventually, what we see is what we call the diseases. And this is the same with every chronic disease that you can mention. I can explain to you how, how it started as a adaptation and survival mechanism, right? And nothing in the body is under more constant attack and injury than the gut.

Why? Because we departed from the ways of nature. And we are eating all day long, 24 seven. We're eating not real foods, we're eating foods full of chemicals made in factories that destroy not only the microbiome, but also the intestinal wall. And that's how I called this little area of your body between the two cells, I call this the Achilles heel of human health, because this is where most, if not all of the chronic diseases of the modern world begin, right? We have, we have. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Hippocrates said that. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Who? 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Hippocrates. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Yeah. He said, health and disease start in the intestine, yeah? And nothing is more relevant than that today. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Got a quick break coming up. We'll be right back. 

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SHAWN STEVENSON: When you mentioned scuba diving, that's what you just did for us. You just took us on a scuba diving journey into the gut. And there are several things that really came to life. And just pointing this one thing out, when you mentioned. this peristalsis and the movement of waste through our system and how that can be debilitated. And you also mentioned how all these incredible neurotransmitters are, and also there's this, you know, of course it's referred to as second brain, but we have like enterochromaffin cells and all this stuff. And a lot of these things are being produced and stored in the gut like serotonin. Now here's what people don't usually think about is how serotonin is related to healthy bowel movement and that peristalsis and it's all working together in synergy.

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: So think, so think of this. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: This nervous system, which is huge and I mean just imagine as I told you before there's one nerve ending in each of the micro villa. This is between one and two tennis courts in surface. That's why such a huge Nervous system, right? It has to cover the whole intestine. Now in normal healthy, nature designed circumstances, the nervous system is doing its thing. It's producing certain neurotransmitters, which are the ones that are the health and well and feeling well and give you energy and to live in nature, right? Now when, and also, you know, they, they cause the peristalsis because they, the nerves are the ones that stimulate the muscles to contract and they do it in a specific order because the, you know, to advance, you have to first squeeze this part and this part and this part, right?

So there's a whole coordination, right? Now imagine that you have a leaky gut and now the immune system is turned on. And by the way, that is how inflammation is born. This is, this is where inflammation begins. And it's such a huge surface than when inflammation begins it turns into systemic. Inflammation is a good thing. It's an inflammation is a survival and adaptation mechanism that we didn't have. We wouldn't, we wouldn't, couldn't live. Right. But it is designed to be temporary and localized, not to 10 X cords of inflammation, that's how it turns into systemic inflammation. And now, okay. What is inflammation?

It's a whole cascade of chemicals that have to be produced by the cells, some of them by the nervous system. Now the nervous system is there, yes, to keep you calm, to have good peristalsis when everything is functioning well. But when there's a threat and there's inflammation and there's these neurotransmitters that have to be produced and the cortisol has to be produced and, adrenaline has to be produced. Then the resources of that neuron that was producing serotonin and dopamine and whatever, you know, and gabapentin, whatever is the neurotransmitters are feeling good. Then now the production has to be diverted into catecholamines, adrenaline and cortisol and all these things and that uses energy and resources, nutrients that have to be put together to, to make this stress hormones and stuff, right, and stress neurotransmitters. 

So now these cells that are in an adaptation and survival mechanism. These nervous cells in the intestine, they don't have the time to, and the resources and the nutrients to do the feeling good neurotransmitters. It has to be changed. Things have to be diverted because the body uses different things, the same thing for different things, right? The same organ for different things, the same cells for different things. You can do, you know, these cells in the gut can produce a, the body uses to produce the good neurotransmitters, but when there's a problem, the body says, okay, let's switch and do, you know, adaptation and survival until that's over then we can start producing the things again. But human life adaptation survival never ends because we're always stressed, we're always eating chemicals, we're always destroying the microbiota, which is part of how the intestines are kept healthy.

So it's always in survival mechanism and that's how people end up in depression and many other nervous system diseases, anxiety and all these things, right? And instead of what I call repairing the gut, which means creating the conditions for the body to heal this and stopping the aggressions so that now the body can go back to doing the healthy thing. The thing that it's designed to keep you well, right? So nature designed things to be a certain way. When things change, the body has the ability to adapt and survive, but things have to go back to normal so that the cells can produce their thing. So, whatever is causing. The adaptation and survival mechanisms to be triggered and and be kept on has to be removed so that the body can start healing, right? 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Makes sense. It makes sense. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: And that's why in functional medicine we say the body heals itself. The only thing we need to do is remove the obstacles and add what is lacking. So if you're like lacking certain vitamins or certain proteins or, you know, then you have to add those and remove the obstacles. What are the obstacles? Number one obstacle is stress. Stress and trauma. I found that is the number one reason for the gut being injured and you know, made to be leak or hyperpermeable. But also all the chemicals that we use or the toxic things that we put in our body. They and sometimes even the medical treatments that we get, you know, we're giving we're over prescribing antibiotics to people for anything. And as I told you before sometimes even the doctor gives it to you to avoid a lawsuit in the future because he says nothing's gonna happen. But what if he doesn't need it, but if he needs it, he's gonna save his life. Well, nothing's gonna happen maybe immediately when you take in the antibiotics, but throughout the days after there's definitely going to be damage in the whole intestinal tract and there's definitely going to be a change that is probably going to lead to the creation or the triggering or adaptation and survival mechanisms.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Thank you for bringing up the stress component because it's another thing we don't think about because in a way it's kind of invisible, you know. And when we're stressed our chemistry is changing, right? Our thoughts are creating chemistry that correlate with the anger, the worry, the fear, whatever the case might be. And the same thing with positive emotions. But a great example of this is like how stress can affect some people's bowel movement. Some people become constipated while others become they hit the evacuation button, right. And it just this is a great reminder of how all this is intimate intimately connected But most importantly how stress can create an insult or damage to our gut lining, to our cardiovascular system. And the body will heal itself, that happens. But if we don't create the conditions, we're not gonna heal and that instead and what we're doing today. Currently we're coming in and we're treating the symptom of the problem and not removing the cause which again, it seems very logical to do that. Let's remove the cause of this issue. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: And add whatever is lacking and add what's lacking.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: And then things correct by themselves. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Now, I want to ask you about this because, truly, understanding this about our gut is the most important aspect of our health today. You also mentioned other organs that are involved with detoxification. And so I want to talk about some of those, but first I want to clear up a point. All right. You kind of alluded to this, that some people think that detoxification is just like whatever, like, yeah, the body does that. It's just a thing that the body does. There's nothing you can do to support or change that. What do you have to say about that when a so called expert is saying that you cannot assist your body in having great detoxification systems?

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER:  Yeah, it's such a shame that some really famous and educated and respected people, you know, the neutrology and nutrition is from Harvard or this doctor from Yale or whatever. They say all that it's kind of sad that this is not understood because of course people listen, right? And, there is so much that, that can be done because for example, a simple thing. The liver needs to manufacture certain enzymes that are the detoxification enzymes. Why? Because molecules that are toxic in it, not only the, the endogenous toxic molecules that we create as waste products of our metabolism, but all the things that we're, Getting through the air we breathe, the water we drink and shower with, the cosmetics we apply on our skin, the cleaning products, and even your home. There's a lot of toxic chemicals in your home, the wall paint, the glue that we see, you know, that we put the hardwood floors with or carpet. I mean, there's so many toxic things that we build our artificial environments with the, right. But mostly the food like products that we eat are filled with chemicals that alone or in combination can cause all kinds of problems, right? So, so. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: That can also inhibit detoxification. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Well, some of them, yes. But the incredible thing about nature is as if nature would have been able to think ahead when, you know, when everything was simple. Of all these chemicals that we invented even last week, 90 something percent of them, the liver is able to break them down with a certain enzyme. Now, these enzymes take certain nutrients and we feed these nutrients are not provided. And this is what I mean when I say the provide what is lacking, you know, give the, if you don't have this. The liver won't be able to manufacture the enzymes and the toxins will keep on circulating. The incredible thing is that the body goes to the second line of defense. Now if the liver cannot break those molecules and turn them from fat soluble into water soluble and render them non toxic, they continue to circulate, the body says, Oh, wait a minute.

These are fat soluble toxins. Let's buffer their irritation. How? By surrounding them with fat, allowing them to dissolve themselves in fat. So what does the body do? It goes into a mode of fat retention and fat generation. And nobody thinks about this, about this factor in the pandemic of obesity, right? There's a detoxification system that is not working optimally. Therefore, there's a backlog of these toxic molecules and most, 90 percent of them are only dissolvable in fat. And by the way, there's a lot of organs that have a lot of fat. The brain is 70 percent fat, the breasts have a lot of fat, the thyroid has a lot of fat, your testicles have a lot of fat, ovaries have a lot of fat.

The liver has some fat. Now if these toxins start dissolving themselves in fat, it's not just the fat around your belly, it's the fat in all these organs. And when you look at it and you see the statistics of where the cancers are exploding, the brain, the liver, the testicles, the ovaries, right? So it's in fat, fatty organs. So, you know, there's so much to, to understand there and allowing or providing whatever the liver needs to detoxify, to manufacture its enzymes and also the energy. Because we talk about a, yeah, the nutrients that the liver needs in order to manufacture whatever it needs to manufacture.

But all that requires energy. So if you are, for example, using up all your energy in other things, like generating inflammation because the body thinks that it needs to generate inflammation because of all of a leaky gut, right? Then a lot of energy is diverted towards there. There's only a limited amount of energy that we are, that we wake up with every day, right? There's the energy that comes from mitochondria. That we described as ATP through the Krebs cycle, right? And we only talk about that, but there is a type of energy that we don't understand that it's invisible or immeasurable And think about this, you exhausted you go to sleep. You have a good night's sleep. You wake up full of energy. That energy we never talk about, right? How is it stored? How does it go into your body? 

It's not the mitochondria that's, you know, by generating ATP because you, you have those all day long and all night, so you wouldn't need to sleep. So that those two types of energy are needed for all the functions of the body. Now let's say you're an athlete and you're running and lifting and every day you're like, you know, it takes a lot of energy. Some of that energy needs to be stolen from other functions. That's why for example women that are athletes and marathon runners at one point they stop menstruating Right because the body says if I'm running, there's not even a chance of getting pregnant. Why am I going to create, you know, ovulation and stuff like that. And use energy for that. So there is an energy management system in the body that is allocating energy amounts to the different functions that are needed at the moment to survive. Right? 

SHAWN STEVENSON: This, for many people, is going to be a paradigm changer, because they're going to think about their body fat in an entirely different way. It's another adaptation. Right? 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: It's a survival mechanism. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: And that lipophilic nature of fat and being a protective mechanism, but it's something that we're trying to get rid of. But it's a question of what is my body trying to protect me from? What is my body trying to do with this fat accumulation? Because it's trying to adapt. It's trying to protect me in a certain way. And one of the things it's protecting us from is that systemic inflammation. It becomes a place to put these exogenous toxins and also internally produced toxins, these metabolic waste products. 

And so that we're not just carrying all this inflammation. But what happens over time is more and more stuff's getting packed into those fat cells, it starts to create more inflammation, right? This kind of false distress signal that kind of like we're infected and that immune system is just in a tizzy. And so again, we might come in and try to attack the symptom, but the solution is improving these detoxification systems. Number one removing the cause. Number two, adding what is necessary and supporting and lacking so that our body can do this house cleaning that it's designed to do. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Are you interested in living a shorter life? Of course not! Everybody would love to extend their lifespan and their health span. Because it's not just the number of years that we live, it's the quality of those years. And what cutting edge research is now revealing is that there is a specific beverage. Hyme tested. Enjoyed by humans for centuries. That has the potential to extend your lifespan and your health span. A meta analysis of 40 studies published in the European Journal of Epidemiology revealed that regularly drinking coffee was associated with a lower risk of death from cardiovascular disease, certain types of cancer, and all cause mortality.

Now, keep in mind, the researchers did an excellent job adjusting for confounding factors like obesity, alcohol consumption, et cetera, et cetera. Thank you. But they found that drinking coffee really stood out. But here's the key. It's the quality of that coffee. We're not talking about coffee. That's littered with artificial sweeteners and sugar and artificial creamers, like "coffee meat". All right. We're not talking about that. We're talking about high quality coffee itself. And one of the reasons why was affirmed by researchers at Stanford University. And these scientists found that the caffeine found in coffee has a remarkable impact defending the brain against age related inflammation.

In fact, they found that these compounds found in coffee was able to suppress genes related to inflammation. This is truly remarkable, and again, keep in mind that it's the quality of coffee. And there's a U shaped curve of benefits. So it's light to moderate coffee drinkers who are seeing these incredible results. And you combine that organic coffee, that's the key, organic coffee, with time tested medicinal mushrooms like lion's mane and chaga. You've got something really special. Lion's mane in particular was affirmed by researchers at the university of Malaya to protect the brain against degeneration and even help to heal traumatic brain injuries.

Again, there's something really special about lion's mane medicinal mushroom. That's what I actually had today was organic coffee, lion's mane medicinal mushroom, and chaga blended together in the incredible coffee blends from Four Sigmatic. Go to foursigmatic.com/model and you're going to get 10 percent off all of their incredible coffee blends. They're amazing elixirs of dual extracted medicinal mushrooms. Nobody does it better than then Four Sigmatic again, that's F O U R S I G M A T I C.com/model for 10 percent off. And now back to the show. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: I want to really dig in and give people some things that they can do to proactively create a new paradigm for themselves supporting these detoxification systems. And if you could can you share three specific things for all of us to do to really help to again revitalize our bodies, support our longevity, and also one of those side benefits is probably going to be some weight loss as well. So what are three specific things to support these detoxification systems?

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: So as I was saying before detoxification optimization is one thing gut repair even though it's very, very connected, is a different thing. So let's talk about first about the detoxification enhancement for life with three, three simple tips, right? One and I'm not going to even say that in order of importance because I don't know what the orders of importance is, but one is eat real food and not food like products and also real food with no chemicals on them right? No glyphosate, no other pesticides. And, you know, so eating real food as opposed to food like products. It's probably one of the most important things that human beings can do to recover the human state of well being which is now in a state of unwell being, right? The second thing that I would say is really really important is resting your digestive system. So what does that mean?

As I said before, only very recently, a little blip in the, in comparison to the time of evolution of human beings, have we had food available 24 7. So we're eating 24 7. So therefore we are digesting 24 7. Now digestion is a highly energy requiring process, right? And a lot of energy is diverted towards digestion because evolutionarily, whenever there was food, the body said, whoops, let's stop everything else and, and dedicate ourselves to this because we don't know when the next meal is coming, right? And this is how our genes still operate, not knowing that 10 minutes later you can go to the fridge again and dump something in, right? So anytime that our body receives food, all other systems start diverting their energy towards digestion and absorption. How do you know that in practical life you eat a big meal and you're tired. Sometimes you fall asleep, right? 

So the nervous system in the body is, and every other system in the intestines is so busy and consuming energy for digestion that it takes it away from others, from other. It takes it away from detox detoxification system. It takes it away from the communication system. It takes it away from, you know, it just. It needs to do the digestion now and then restore the energy to whatever else right, but we are constantly digesting. But you get a hundred people at random in the street today at any time during the day or night there's digestion happening. Because people eat at 10 10 o'clock at night and then go to bed or sometimes they do 2 in the morning. I mean, it's like we're eating all day long breakfast, lunch and dinner. I say that breakfast lunch and dinner is killing humanity Just the fact that we're having three meals a day and snacking in the middle. There's no one case in the animal kingdom where you see them living in natural conditions, the digestion is happening all the time.

If it is, it's very simple digestion. Like for example, panda bears, they arrive in a bamboo forest and they can eat all day long, right? But what are they eating? Leaves. So, the animal, the more complex the diet, the more nature imposes a fast. Right? Between meals like, for example, a lion. He catches a deer, has a feast, and then falls asleep for two, three days, and wakes up, and then starts getting high enough for five, you know, and then he has to look for another deer and catch another deer. So it's gonna be an imposed fasting episode and then catches a deer again, a feast. So feasting and fasting, we're not doing that anymore.

And we used to, humans used to be like that. When we ate, when we found food and we, you know, but then we, we got more civilized and we started, you know, we started producing our own food and then there is an abundance, you know. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Pizza in huts, you got burger Kings and you have the Dairy Queens. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: And you have your fridge full, and your pantry full of things to eat, right? So resting the digestive system is hugely important. Why? Because just like I said, if you, if you break a bone and you don't rest that, that org, that part of the body where the bone is broken. And sometimes immobilize it, it won't heal right, right? Same thing with the intestines. If you don't rest it, then then, so how do you rest it? Well, you start by questioning and rebelling against the cultural phenomenon that we created of breakfast, lunch and dinner, right? So it's either one meal a day or intermittent fasting or, you know, you'd have to find your own way. It's not every, not, every way is for everybody.

You know, there was a lot of hype about intermittent fasting and they started saying, well, for women, it's not that good, but for which women. Women that are in menstruating ages. So, you gotta find your, your way, right? But there's a lot of ways to rest your digestive system. One of them is not eating the things that are difficult to digest. So real food and not food like products. And then the third tip is. And this is, as we were talking about how stress and trauma is so such an important factor that we many times don't even think of for malfunctioning of the body. Detoxification as well as gut repair is a being present because when you learn and you, and you establish yourself in the present, you become present.

The stress and an anxiety and all of that starts reducing enormously and if you're fully present disappears completely, right? So those are the three three tips which you can call it stress reduction if you want, right? But I know that the best way of reducing stress is learning how to be present. Read Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now and you can, you will understand it from many angles, right? And I have a few tricks for that to make myself present at any time when I realize when I'm not right? 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Please share. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Share with you right now. So as we speak right now, you are looking at me and listening to me and thinking and understanding what I'm saying, right? But if I ask you not only listen to me, but put some of your attention on your feet. Feel your feet from inside. Feel the temperature. Don't close your eyes. Look at me. Don't say yes or no. Just stay still and as you listen to me and understand what I'm saying, at the same time, all the time, feel it. Feel your feet.

Feel the temperature, the humidity, the position they're in, your fingers touching each other, your socks, your shoes, whatever it is that you're touching, the pressure against the floor. Feel it. Continue to feel it. Continue to feel it. Right? And as you listen to me and feel your feet, don't only look at me. But look at everything else. Notice the wall. Keep on looking at me, but notice the wall, notice our friends here, notice the microphone, the lights. Make a point of noticing, but don't forget to feel your feet, right? So notice everything with your eyes, so it's like a, as if you're now wide angle and you can notice everything, right?

But keep on doing it. Keep on feeling your feet. And now, as you listen to me. Also, listen to everything else. And in this studio, it's a little tricky because it's kind of silent. But if you're outside, there will be birds chirping, or people walking and talking, or all kinds of noises, right? And you're listening to those, too. And at the beginning, it may seem a little counterintuitive, because you're talking to me. Why would you be doing all that? Why? Because when you're putting your attention on your feet, on the things that you see and on the things that you hear, you are deploying some of your attention into the present 'cause your feet are only in the present.

The walls and the lights are only in the present and the noises are only happening in the present. So you are putting your attention there and you're anchoring yourself in the present and you become more present. And it doesn't have to be just meditating in a room, closing your eyes, and you know, no, you can do it all day long. And the more you practice it, the more you become present. And you can do it all day long. You always have your feet, you always have your eyes, you always have your ears. Use them in a different way. And it's unbelievable what it can do for you. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: I feel like Neo in the Matrix right now. That's amazing. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Yeah. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Thank you for sharing that. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: And I, and I do that all day long. And sometimes I forget about it. Right. And then I catch myself, bring yourself back. And I'm like, and I catch myself and I go by immediately. See everything. Listen, everything. Feel your feet, right? 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. In the words of Keanu Reeves. Whoa. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Yeah. So we talked about detoxification, right? 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Now, now let's dedicate a couple minutes to gut repair, right? So, so the body heals itself. You have to remove the obstacles and add what is lacking, right? But, but as I said, there's so much information about the gut and so little information about to really how to heal it. Because sometimes even if you eat perfectly well and you're taking all the acarmancia and all the newest supplements and glutamine and this and that is not going to happen unless you put a cast on the gut. And that is what I intended and keep on perfecting as I learn by designing the CLEAN program.

It's a detoxification enhancing program and a gut repair program. And listen, there's many ways of doing things. We were talking about it at the beginning, right? When there's a will, there's a thousand ways, right? And I'm sure there's a thousand ways of and programs for healing the gut and depending also on how old you are and how severely broken it is the male because if it's a fracture that is that leaves the bone in place and it's like a fissure, you know. Sometimes you don't need the cast, you know, and, and just keeping it in a sling and taking it easy will, will heal, right?

And in those cases, if we, instead of talking about a bone, we're talking about the gut, yeah, maybe avoiding gluten and dairy and you know, for a little bit, it'll allow to heal. But what I see today is that. Most people, if not everybody, walking around in the modern world, have some degree of gut dysfunctional injury. And for many, many of those, and I'm not sure if it's for most of them. Unless you do things, in a very specific way. 

And for example, let's talk about glutamine. Everybody's talking about glutamine is one of the nutrients necessary to create the glue between the two cells in the intestinal wall to keep the integrity and the hermitism so that there is no leaky gut, right. 

Now, glutamine is needed for that and it's usually the limiting factor because if you have if you have the bricks, and you put them together, but you don't have the glue. It's a limiting factor to creating. I mean even if you have a hundred thousand bricks, you don't have the cement, you're not going to create a strong wall right. So, this is one of the building blocks of this cement. But for example, the glutamine has to be taken in a very specific way to be really effective, which is with nothing else being digested at the time, because many nutrients compete between each other and glutamine is one of the things that the body finds difficult to absorb.

And, process when it's processing many other things, right? So when I give glutamine to my patients during a gut repair program, I'm sure that, that at least two hours before they haven't eaten anything because, you know, that's, that's two and a half, two and a half hours is what it takes for things to kind of calm down after eating something. It's a big meal, it has to be a little more, right? And they're not going to eat anything for at least half an hour, one hour after taking it, right? So that already is something that most people don't do. And that's why a lot of people don't get any results when they do something like this. So, gut repair is a very specific thing that you have to understand and have experience with and get good information in order for you to be able to achieve or create the conditions for your body to achieve, right? And there's a lot of, I mean, I wrote a whole book about it, you know? Right. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: New York Times bestseller. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: New York Times bestseller. Clean gut. In which I explain the timing of things and what you have to eat and what you don't have to eat and also pay attention to stress and anxiety and all those things, you know, and there's tools for that, for those things too. Right? Enhance, because we talked about detoxification in the, I mean, the detoxification processes in the liver and everything. But then all of that has to be eliminated and it's eliminated through stools, through urine, through sweat. So infrared saunas or normal saunas, sweating, exercising, enhances elimination.

You know, I mean, so, and I'll tell you, I'll tell you a story that kind of illustrates it. All of this that we've been talking about, you know, I just come from Argentina. I guide retreats, one week retreats in which I put people on a gut repair program for one week, which is obviously not enough. Some people require a much longer time, depending on how long the gut has been broken and how severe it's been broken, right? But in one week you can get started. And what I do is I take over a hotel in some place in the middle of nature, right? I do some in Uruguay in a place called the Big Bang nature stays. It's like a hotel. It's all geodesic domes inside a forest, on the beach, on the Atlantic Ocean. It's unbelievable.

And I take with me all kinds of healers, sometimes other doctors, meditation, teachers, yoga, teachers, constellations, which we talked a little bit about before I came here, which is a form of therapy. And clears familiar and generational trauma, incredibly, effectively, powerfully. And I bring all those people and we have activities all day long while they're doing The clean program, right? So what does the clean program mean? Resting the gut. Providing what's lacking? How do you rest the gut? What I decided that was the most effective was having a liquid meal for breakfast, a liquid meal for dinner, and lunch it's a regular solid meal, but there's a list of foods that you can and that you cannot eat.

The five biggest ones that you cannot eat are sugar, coffee, alcohol, gluten, and dairy. Of course, also all the processed foods that come with chemicals, right? So there's a whole system, right? But I know that is not enough many times, so I bring all these other people. So there was this woman, very smart woman, and, you know, financially well. And the reason I say that is because she's seen a lot of specialists, right? In more than one country. And she's been suffering for three or four years. And she gets bloated and she's constipated and she has skin issues and so she's sitting and telling me all these things and I'm doing a functional medicine history taking, which is different than regular medicine. 

You know, you start from, from birth where you born naturally or C section because that already is going to give you a disadvantage. Being born by C section in terms of the formation of your microbiome, you know, because going through the birth canal is where your first inoculation, right? If you're breastfed or not. So I asked him, how was your childhood? Did you go to school and not miss school because you had infections and this or that before you give an antibiotic and until we arrive at a point where things change, right? So we, I arrived at a point where things changed for her that had to do with her father's death and some family issues and I realized because at the beginning she was kind of smiling about her childhood and then suddenly her face and features change. And I said, listen, she came with a diagnosis of SIBO, which is very fashionable now.

Everybody now, she had blown in the, in the tube and there was methane and hydrogen. So she was given both of the famous antibiotics, Rifaximin and Neomycin because they thought they had both bacteria, hydrogen and methane forming, right? But she then found out about the retreat and said, Let me see, you know, what happens there. And so I'm sitting with her and I said, listen, I don't know if you have SIBO. And even if you, if the test was positive, even, you know, if the symptoms kind of look very much like SIBO, I said, I see two problems here. I see that you're constipated. And she was going to a bathroom every five, six days. And I see that there's some trauma.

That you haven't healed from that because I saw your face change when you started talking about the you know your father's death and so, you know, we're talking. And I always smuggled with me when I go to South America these little bottles that are like mini home colonic machines Right. It's a bottle and the cap has two little tubes one that goes to an air pump and the other one that goes all the way down so you can you pump the air and it creates a pressure until the liquid goes through another little tube that you insert in your butt. And you pump all the liquid from this bottle that can be water or some degree of coffee as well. And when I want somebody to really respond, I give him coffee. So I gave him one of the bottles.

I said, I want you to go right now and use it. But she couldn't because the next activity. The group activity was the family constellation activity. And I was telling you before the family constellation is a kind of therapeutic activity in which the whole group sits down. There's a therapist that is trained in this. And the one that I have is a master, Matias Munoz in Argentina. And so he, you know, who wants to work on, on family issues and people are like, okay. So he brings them. Yeah. And the circle of people is there. And he starts kind of a detecting where the problem is.

Once he detects what the problem is, he chooses, like, let's say the problem is with his sister. He chooses somebody to represent this. And, and there's a way in which he guides them to have a conversation. The person constellating telling his, her sister, anyways, in this case, it was with her father. She had a major breakthrough, major. She felt 10 kilos lighter after this, she said that wow, it was in that she thinks that she really healed this traumatic thing that happened in her family, which I don't actually know what it is because I didn't go into it. And I didn't attend the constellation that she did.

But then from there, she went to a room, had a coffee and the next day. She had zero symptoms and was flat and feeling great and then for the next five days of the retreat Completely gone. All symptoms completely gone. She had to keep on using the coffee enema daily which is when I told her you use it for a while. Daily if necessary, you cannot go to sleep without pooping. So you wait until night if you know, sometimes for some people coffee at night is a little bit, you know, I have a coffee at at night.

I sleep like a baby, but some people maybe not, so we have to find a way. Anyways, she kept on doing it and eventually you start reducing and you don't need it anymore. You, it retrains and of course the changes in diet, the resolving of the trauma. I mean, I text with her sometimes because I'm, you know, the people that are in the retreat, I get attached to and we exchange numbers. And she, three weeks later, she's doing amazing. So was it SIBO? Or was it part diet and part trauma that she was suffering from, right? She changed her diet, she healed some of that trauma You There's no CBO anymore. So the, and this I see every day. 

SHAWN STEVENSON:  Yeah. Your programs, the retreats. The CLEAN 21 program, you're basically walking people through this process.

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: Yes. I wrote a book about, well I wrote a book about the detoxification process, which is called CLEAN, and how to create a, how to follow a detox program, and I give you recipes and all the instructions. I created a program for gut repair, which is similar to the detox enhancing program. But a little more strict and with, with a little more, accessories. Let's say, you know, in terms of supplements and things and things to do. I wrote a recipe book that, that, that serves both of those programs, right? And then I wrote a book about a seven day program because I realized that 21 days, which are the two first program, clean and clean gut. And we live in such a crazy world today that people get intimidated and end up not doing it.

So I said, well, how do I enhance and accelerate the first seven days to give people a taste in their own flesh and get them inspired to continue, right? So I created the clean seven program, which in seven days really gives you a nice taste and a lot of people get inspired to continue, right. And in this program, I not only used, I use functional medicine principles, but I use Ayurvedic medicine principles and practices as well as a little bit of intermittent fasting. There's 24 hours within the seven day program in which you only drink tea, you know, from from lunch one day to lunch the next day. So there's, there's a night in the middle. So you're sleeping a lot of that time. So the, intermittent fasting doesn't pay off. That, you know, you build up to it and in the fourth day and to the fifth day from lunch to lunch, you don't have anything but certain supplements and teas and the results are just incredible. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: We're going to put access to your books and programs for everybody in the show notes, but what's a good URL or a place online where people can find this if they're listening to get access to all this. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: So my Instagram, you know, DR from Dr. Alejandro Junger, which is my name. They can go to, you know, I also, I wrote these books to give instructions to people, but I also realized that a lot of people, you know, don't have the bandwidth to go to the supermarket and get these things. And, you know, which is the best way to do it is to cook for yourself and to prepare the liquid meals for yourself with real foods. That's the best way to do it from the book is the best way to do it now for people that are so busy, they can't, you know, I created a kit that, that has the liquid meals in forms of shakes that you have for breakfast and for dinner.

Then you have the list of foods that you can and you cannot eat. Which I, I mean, I mentioned the five big ones, but there's a few other ones and the supplements necessary and instructions day by day, we hold your hand every. And I trained a team of health Coach that support you. And if you get into this this program you can call them for free any time and they will guide you and they would help you resolve problems, right? So that is cleanprogram.Com, which is the the company that I created, to help people that cannot do it from the book for lack of knowledge or lack of time or whatever. And it also that that I think your wife's tried it.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yes, yes, of course, like I already shared the results with you and the thing is, like, you know, what's so beautiful about this is that the gut heals very quickly. But it just depends on the extent of damage that you have, of course, but it's always trying to heal itself is one of the fastest regenerating organs and aspects of our bodies and so just doing the right stuff. Removing the problematic stuff and adding in the right stuff, you can heal very quickly from all manner of conditions. And so, yeah.

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: And if not, and if not quickly, because, you know, I know in America, especially, but all over the world, people want, you know, give me the pill, give me the, you know. Sometimes it's not so quick, but it's, it beats having to go to hospitals and getting tests and getting medications. And so, you know, I have, I've had people that, took him six months to heal their gut. But, if you understood how much they were suffering before and how many medical bills they were paying, they would say, well, you know, it doesn't matter. You know, and the things that people get better from autoimmune diseases.

I mean if, I don't have it here. But if I show you some of the photos of people with dermatomy autoimmune dermatomyositis that come with a face like this taking chemotherapy. You know because one of the ways to treat our own immune diseases is to depress your immune system so that it can't attack, it cannot attack yourself. So how do they do that? Do that with prednisone and chemotherapy like methotrexate, right? So, so, that's the level of in a way, madness. And thank God these things exist because if this woman wouldn't have had access to a gut repair program, at least those things were, were kind of helping a little bit. But again, the side effects when you depress your immune system, maybe the autoimmune problem will decrease, but also your resistance and ability to defend yourself from bugs and from cancers, right? So you, so you're doing one thing, but you're paying the price with another thing. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. And that's no way to be, we need to remove ourselves from the system. Thank you so much for coming by to hang out with me. This has been incredible, incredible. And when you talked about being present earlier, I was already locked in with you because just listening to your voice, and I know a lot of people feel the same. It's it grabs you, it brings you here. And the remarkable thing about you isn't just your experience and your heart and your work. It's that you have this incredible energy behind all of it. And I think a part of that energy, of course, is just your life story and the journey you've taken. But also you're just a cool ass person. 

DR. ALEJANDRO JUNGER: And listen, listen, part of why you see me this way is because I'm hanging out with you. Because you are also cool ass, and you're also pretty present yourself. And, just, you know, it's, it's contagious. That's why tell me who you're with and I'll tell you who you are. And we have to choose our tribe, right? Every time I come here, it's such a pleasure. So thank you for having me. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: My man. Thank you for coming to see me. I appreciate you, Dr. Alejandro Junger, everybody. My man. Thank you. 

Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this. Listen, keeping it real. Sitting here with Alejandro is magical. All right. My guy has the most incredible Antonio Banderas. If Antonio Banderas was a physician, was a medical expert, was a cardiologist and lover of all things health, which he might be. I don't know. All I know about Antonio Banderas is going back to Desperado. All right. But real talk. By the way, he's still looking good doing this thing. All right. Alejandro, Antonio, very similar. So just awesome to sit here with him. Incredible voice, incredible spirit, and huge heart. Even off camera, you know, just being able to have conversations with him.

He's always talking about helping people. He's going above and beyond to create conditions for people to heal. And it's just amazing. I am so grateful that people like him are living right now on this planet and doing this much needed work. So it's very special for me to be able to present these incredible people to you and part of keeping that mission going is sharing your voice, sharing these episodes. You know Making sure that you're subscribed to the show on the respective platforms that you're listening on. Popping over and subscribing to the YouTube channel.

We're doing some big things on YouTube. Just wherever you can help to support this message and this mission. It truly does mean a lot so we've got some epic masterclasses and world class guests coming your way very, very soon. So make sure to stay tuned, take care, have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon. And for more after the show, make sure to head over to themodelhealthshow. com. That's where you can find all of the show notes. You can find transcriptions, videos for each episode. And if you've got a comment, you can leave me a comment there as well. And please make sure to head over to iTunes and leave us a rating to let everybody know that the show is awesome. And I appreciate that so much and take care. I promise to keep giving you more powerful, empowering, great content to help you transform your life. Thanks for tuning in.