SHAWN STEVENSON: Welcome to the Model Health Show. This is fitness and nutrition expert Shawn Stevenson, and I'm so grateful for you tuning in with me today. Our society, as you probably very much know, is dealing with an epidemic of overwhelm. Today we're gonna be talking to one of the world's leading neuroscientists and therapists about how to deal with overwhelm. Also, how do we deal with things like regret and many of our other modern maladies? This conversation is invaluable and I think that you're absolutely going to love this and hanging out with our special guest. Dr. Caroline Leaf is so special for me personally because she's somebody that I was learning from from afar for many years, before meeting her.

And now we're great friends and we've done a lot of different programs and work together to help to serve the community. And she's just somebody that I really love hanging out with and talking with. And when you're hanging out with Dr. Leaf, like we actually went and got lunch together. It was her husband and my wife, and we're all hanging out and she just gives off Queen B vibes. It's very, very cutesy. Very demure, but just queen be vibes. And so wise. And actually what I found is that she is, and which makes sense because of the work that she does. She is such a great listener and just being able to share things with her and she offers like a gentle.

Understanding, but also very practical advice and is very helpful. And we were outside eating and she had on these cute pink sunglasses to match her pink high heels is just, just so cute, but don't get it twisted. Queen bee vibes very powerful and just, she is making such a huge difference in the world of overall health, of course, but specifically in mental health and really focusing again on mind. Management, which you're gonna learn about today. The important distinction between brain health and the mind is one of my favorite things that we talked about, but you're going to hear that we do want to have, even though the mind is far more than just the human brain, making sure that we have a healthy instrument for our mind to express itself through. So we want to pay attention to nourishment for our brains. 

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And with that, let's dive into this very special interview with our special guest and topic of the day. Dr. Caroline Leaf is a neuroscientist specializing in cognitive and metacognitive processes and psycho neurobiology. Her passion is to help people to see the power of their mind and to change the brain control, chaotic thinking, and find mental peace. She's the author of several bestselling books, including Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess, as well as the author of numerous research studies published in peer reviewed scientific journals. Today, Dr. Leaf is sharing how to get help in a hurry. Simple tips for finding peace when you're overwhelmed, anxious, or stressed. Let's dive into this conversation with the one and only Dr. Caroline Leaf. Dr. Leaf, we need your help. Many of us feel overwhelmed, anxious, sometimes just flat out lost what's going on.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Well, Shawn, it's so good to be back with you, by the way. Always have such great conversations. And, yeah, it, I wrote that book because that is exactly the cry that all of us, including myself, you just feel like you need help in a hurry. It's been living such a world of overwhelm, as you say, and burnouts. And I can tell you, I know the answer. And the answer is that we are not managing our mind. And people think that may, that sound may sound so simplistic, but our mind is 99% of who we are. And it's driving our physiology. It's driving, basically it's driving everything. It drives our psychology, it drives our physiology.

So if we don't manage our mind, all the things that are happening in the world around us are going into the mind. And if they go in chaotically, they go into the brain and the body chaotically 'cause the brain and the body host the mind. And therefore, chaotic brain. A chaotic mind, chaotic brain, chaotic body, chaotic life. And then that cycle sets up a loop between the conscious mind and the brain and body, but skips out our non-conscious mind, which we can go into and explain in detail in a moment. But basically that's where our wisdom lies. We are spiritual level, our, whatever you wanna call it scientifically. We call it the unconscious, but it's where the stuff that we need to make good decisions is, and where all our memories aren't.

All our wisdom and everything is stored. And when we live in this chaotic mode, which is just between the conscious mind, which is pretty limited, and the brain and body, we are going to feel increasingly overwhelmed and the way that life is so busy and fast. In our current age, every, every generation faces something, but we are dealing with a very fast paced society, and it goes against a lot of how we are actually wired as humans. You know, we are wired to take time to think through things deeply and to process and to get insight and to have deep, con deep, meaningful conversations. Not just quick, quick, quick, quite fast, which we've become, and that's created this, this loop. And people are, are, people are getting sick. People are getting mentally unhealthy.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. It's just like the, the way that our society is structured is feeding anxiety, it's feeding overwhelm, it's feeding all these.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Totally.

SHAWN STEVENSON: It's not just, um, something that just came out of nowhere, but kind of did.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: But there's a reason behind it. There's a reason why, and you just mentioned something that a lot of people don't realize, which is our mind is really creating our body. It's creating what's happening with our body. And psycho neurobiology is one of your specialties. And so a lot of the things that we're feeling and seeing with our own physical body, it has a lot to do with what's happening with our minds. And as you've been teaching us for years now, and even before I even met you, you know, learning from, from you from afar that we simply don't, we are just kind of thrown into this new environment and we don't know how to manage our minds, let alone know what it is. And so let's, let's give a little bit of a brief review of our mind, because a lot of people, a lot of people think that the mind and the brain are synonymous that they're one, but there's a distinction. Let's talk a little bit about that. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I'm so glad you started there, Shawn, because we, for the past 40 to 50 years, one of the worst things that's, that's come out of the research over that time period has been this. A mixture or this, this kind of collapsing into neuro reductionism, which is people thinking that the mind is the brain exactly like you've described. And why I say that's not great is because it's taken a lot of our humanity out of us and it's really focused on us being very much just the physical, the mechanical part.

So one piece is missing, just, you know, put the missing piece in or replace the missing piece. So one chemical is not working, then put another chemical in. So we've become very reductionistic and that has, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a weird. A paradox because we've advanced in medicine, we've advanced in science, we've advanced in technology, but we've gone way backwards when it comes to the understanding of the human, the human mind. And we kind of doing what philosophers predicted thousands of years ago, you know, and what one of my university professors predicted 40 years, 40 years ago, when I started in this field, and that was that if we make everything about the brain about something that's 1% of, not even 1% of what we are, we are going to have a problem.

So as we, as we focus on that, then we shift our perspective. So the problem is that we can't see. The mind and the brain are not the same thing. And I know that that's such a strange thing for people to hear because for 50 years the media and the scientific world have fed this message that the mind is the brain. And people will say, my brain, my mind is though it's the same thing. They're so radically different. So, so different that there's not even a remote similarity. So the brain is, there's, there's an, there's a little model of the brain. Your brain is about the size of your two fists weighs about three and a half pounds, and it is literally a physical organ that's part of the whole body.

And the brain and the body collectively are 1% of who you are as a human. 1%. So if something, if something, this is, and this with the body. So we've also been told that the mind, that this is the mind, that the brain is the mind. They are almost like synonyms. And we've also been told that this is where everything happens. All our memories are stored, all our thoughts, all our emotions and billions of dollars and many years of research has been, have been put into saying, well, if you said this, particle brains are working properly and the this chemical's not working properly, this, this part, this is causing this. So very reductionistic down to the idea of a mechanical take this, output that in.

And that's never been proven. It's no matter how much research has happened, they've never been able to conclusively say, well, this is the case. Classic example was the research on A DHD where they did a bunch of research and, and there was a huge media coverage of this research. And they basically were saying that people with ADHD have different brains, they're smaller. And that research was, and I'm giving you the sort of very summarized version, that research was pulled apart very quickly and for years, the scientists that. They know what they're doing, have questioned that, and what they showed was that that isn't what the research actually showed. Now those same scientists are saying, Hey, maybe we didn't present this research quite accurately.

Now, all these years later, after telling everyone ADHD is a thing and your brain is smaller and there's something wrong with you, now they're saying, Hmm. Actually that's not the case. We've actually looked at ADHD wrong, and that's a classic example of what we see happening now by making everything reduced down to being all about the brain, producing it puts the onus on a physical organ that actually has no power, that is nothing without your mind when you dead, this brain is doing nothing. You're disintegrating within 10 sec, 10 to 20 seconds of your heart stopping your brain. Flat lines and every part of your body starts disintegrating within that time period. And then, you know, over a period of a few, a few hours and everything's gone. But when you're alive, it's working. So what is making your brain work?

What makes your heart pump? What enables me to be Caroline and you to be shown? What enables you to love and have your intelligence and your personality and your perception of life and your view, and appreciating a sunset and great food. And we were talking about food earlier on, so that kept, popped in my mind. That is your mind. Your mind is what is you. It's your aliveness. It's your ability to think and feel and choose and experience and be different to other people and love and hate. And we shouldn't be hating, but we do and make choices and all these things. It also drives the physiology. So the, it's the mind that actually makes the brain work.

It makes your genes work, it makes your body digest, it makes your immune system work. It makes your heart pump. So if you, that's why when we die and the mind actually moves out, whatever belief system one has, then everything stops. So it's kind of the switch off button happens. So the mind's massive. It's, it's got different layers, there's different levels, and the brain is a host to the mind and therefore, and the body is a host to the mind and the brain and body therefore respond to the mind. So the mind is fundamental, the mind is a priority. However, the last 40 to 50 years, the focus has been on everything around the brain and the physical body. Now, I'm not saying don't eat well. You and I both know that this is critically important. You teach them on your show exercise, eating correctly.

These are vital because your mind has to work through things at work. So your brain and your body has to work. So if our mind's messy and our brain's messy from our mind being messy and our body thank you, and we are not looking after our body, then we've got from our mind perspective, we are generating an energy that's disruptive and then that creates damage in the brain. And if we are not eating as well, or doing exercise, eating the correct way, doing exercise, we've now got that we've putting substance in our body that's not, or not doing exercise. That's from two angles. We damaging our brain and our body. Then we look at the world we live in, where the stats show us that in the last a few years, the, the in, there's been such a massive increase.

People are dying eight to 25 years younger from preventable lifestyle diseases, and that's not lifestyle. Diseases are responsible as, you know, you teach on the show, are responsible for basically. Lifestyle diseases are things that we can manage. Lifestyle means our lifestyle is something. So what we in lifestyle includes exercise, diet, as we know, but it's predominantly mind. We have to do all of that. So that means only five, 5% is, is genetic and so on. And we can still manage those with our mind. So we, but we focus on the brain and the body. And then a little bit of stress management or meditation is thrown in as a, almost like a side effect.

People will say four pillars of healing, and it'll be diet, exercise predominantly, and then there'll be a little bit of stress management. And that's the wrong way around. We should be making everything about mind. Because even the way your mind is working is going to affect the 800 to million souls you make every second. So you might be doing the exercise eating correctly, so you're doing that side properly, but your mind's a mess. So you're gonna just, so the actual good that you're achieving with the good eating is being disrupted by the mind, because the mind is going to actually disrupt the DNA as you're eating. So you're not gonna get that same level of benefit.

Some studies have shown it's up to a 90% loss of benefit when our mind's messy and we are doing that workout in Orange Theory. You're working out in the gym and you're eating your healthy food, but your mind is a mess. So you get benefit a little bit, but you're gonna lose a lot of that benefit very quickly because of the mind. So I know that's a long answer, but I think it kind of gives.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: All, everyone to dive in a little deeper. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: You're helping us to di to, to direct our attention to what matters most truly.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yes.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And I'm so grateful because we don't think of same thing in, in our university classes. Even our DNA is just very mechanistic. Right. Yeah. Like we've got this DNA, it's printing out these copies. But our thoughts, our mind is influencing our DNA, what it's doing. Every single micro microsecond.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Every single microsecond.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And so also, I love that analogy of the mind working through parts that work well. Right? And so that's why we wanna strive, of course, to do those things as well.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Because it's sort of like the, what popped into my mind when you said that was like a signal coming through a really powerful antenna and broadcasting or a coat hanger.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: You know, and so like, can you handle the wattage? Can you, can you, can you handle the, you know, the good, all the things that you're wanting to manifest in your life and creating a, a vessel for it to be transmitted through, right? So you're taking care of that, but it starts with your mind. Our mind is determining all the choices that we're making.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: You know, and we want to habituate those things. We want to habituate things that. Help to support the body and help to support our relationships. And again, so often we're looking at things the reverse way. Right?

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: We're trying to pushups our way into fitness.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Instead of getting your mind right so that the pushups are just automatic. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly. 'cause then you are automatically do, you'll want to, and your mind is right. You'll want to eat healthy, you'll want to do the pushups. There's just a natural, it's natural. I need my body to function. I mean, just look at the longevity movement, you know, that that's also finally, now it's doing a full cycle where there's been such a focus on, you know, living forever and living longer. And the obsession with biohacking and these kinds of things that it's good in the sense that it's made people more aware, but it's bad in the sense that people think, well, I can bio hack my life into longevity.

But it doesn't work like that. It's not just about the physical. So people are throwing a hundred percent of their energy into the physical, to the point that some people aren't even connecting with other people. And a massive part of our mind management is deep, meaningful connection. It's having those deep conversations, it's thinking deeply. It's, it's, it's building the stories of our life with other people in our lives. And that's, and you're so busy looking off, you know, self-focused. That's a problem. And there's another area that's been to distorted and that's the whole self-help movement.

And that's, and you know, people may say, well, you and I in self-help, yes we are, but we are trying to do it correctly. There's the self-help movement where people can be so focused on, I've gotta meditate now, I've gotta do this, now I've gotta do, wear this tracker to get this amount of sleep. I've gotta do this amount of meditation, I've gotta get focused on my boundaries. It makes them selfish. So we, you know, the balances is, the balances are off. And I see that happening when we don't regulate our mind. But if your mind is regulated, then you'll do the, the right amount of biohacking, the right amount of exercise, the right kind of eating the, the right kind of things that will help to have a healthy lifespan, whatever the longevity is, because we don't wanna just live longer, we want to live healthier as well.

You know, so it's, it's just to bring balance back and, and you see that the research shows. If you don't focus on mind as your predominant first pillar of everything, and it's, in fact, it's the overarching. You're going to have distortion in how people apply things into their, into their lifestyle. And then the disease has increased. We haven't got less diseases. We, the, the stats do not say that. Yes, we've got certain things under control. Yes, people do live longer, but quality of life has not improved. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: That reversed. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF:  It's reversed a lot of the, yeah, a lot of it's reversed. And also mental health is worse than it's ever been. So, and, and if, if all these, these, the medical model worked, the biomedical, neuro, neuro reductionistic model worked, we would have improvement in mental health. We've got people dying eight to 25 years younger from preventable lifestyle diseases, which are related to mind management. And we have a whole mind, man, a mental health system that is actually just hitting people. There's something wrong with your brain, there's something wrong with you. What about society?

What about the environment? Who we are is based on what are we, what are we living in our family unit, the environment that we, even, the socioeconomic, the socio, the political, the geographical, all those affect us. Life affects us. Or how are we teaching our kids? Are we teaching ourselves how to process life and the ups and downs of life? No, we are not. They're saying..

SHAWN STEVENSON: Absolutely not.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF:  ..Saying you feel sad. Oh gosh, Don's something wrong with you. You're feeling you, you've had five episodes of feeling depressed this week. Forget about where it comes from. You've got a, you, you've got a, a disease of depression. You've got a chemical imbalance. Not even science. It hasn't even been proved it's been disproved. But that's what people are being told. And then they take that label and they merge with the environments. They go and TikTok and self-diagnose even more. And we are sitting with this problem and you think, what's happening? Why are people overwhelmed? You know, if so much incorrect messaging. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: The bottom line is, is it working right? So the things that we've done to feel better, you know, our mental health, our physical health, it's largely not working. It's been unsuccessful. There are some people who figured some things out, but it's in the minority. And so one of the things that's so powerful about your work is again, you're directing us to. The, the first domino that addresses everything.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right. And which is the mind. And so we get to address this from a, from a true place of, of power. Because right now, you know, our conditions are such that, and I'm, I'm gonna say this loosely because I know you're always analyzing. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I'm gonna get a sip of tea while I listen to your great statement.

SHAWN STEVENSON: So we're, we're living in a society that is, I'm saying this loosely again, hijacking our minds. Right?

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Totally.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And I'm saying that loosely because our minds are, are always ours. No one can truly hijack our minds. It's just you being aware and, and being aware, and being intentional about how you're using your mind. But I think a possible better way to say that is that they're kind of borrowing our minds, right? Without our permission. And we're, we're, we're loaning it out. We're giving silent permission for, you know, all these different. Brilliant engineers, right. To keep you on these different apps and you know, in the way that science has been disseminated, you know, um, looking for these mechanistic things to fix me outside of myself. Right? 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: So external locus of control. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: And not to mention, and this is where now we're gonna get into some of the things that we can actually change and help with today, that we're feeling. Many of us are feeling this, and I think we're feeling this. I know we're feeling this more than ever. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: In addition to life's general ups and downs, now we've got so many more decisions to make and..

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Things to deal with that can influence and make us feel even worse if we make the wrong decision. Make us feel even more guilt and shame and live with more regret than we ever have.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And regret, I think, is a very ubiquitous feeling. It's, it's, it's pervasive in our culture today because there's this fomo, right? There's so much going on. I should have did this, should have did that, let alone the big ups and downs. Right. Making a decision on. You know, uh, who, who we're spending our time with or our life with, or, you know, a decision that we make in, you know, maybe an injury that we're dealing with or the list goes on and on.

We make a decision and we feel regret about the decision, right? Maybe it's in regards to losing a loved one in some form or fashion and the regret behind that. What are some of the things that we could do? Let's talk about regret and let's talk about healing. Let's talk about getting some help in a hurry. Maybe we're feeling stuck in regret. What are some of the things that we can do? 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Okay. That's such a, I love how you phrased that whole, how you, how you prepared the groundwork for that question. It's, it's really beautiful and it's very important. I'm gonna answer that very quickly in two ways. 

First part is that all these, as you so ni, so rightly said, there's all these things we can do. But that's overwhelming doing them. It's actually made our lives, you know, we've gotta be productive, we've gotta be happy, we've gotta be. It's, it's just so much stuff that it's taken away from a lot of the peace. Now, it doesn't mean that each of those incredible inventions by all these scientists and all these, they're all good.

They're all gonna create some positive change, but we've lost the ability to make the decision to manage them. And then that's where things like, as you say, regret and so on coming. So I just wanted to stress you that we are not saying, don't ever use any of those things, don't, we are not saying don't eat healthy. We're saying do all of those things, but before you do anything. And regret that first, get your mind right, because when your mind is right, you'll have wisdom. And when your wisdom is there, you'll deal with, and we're gonna dive into the regret now, but you'll know what to do and what not to do. You'll recognize when you actually, I don't need those 400 different things.

I just need to get a more simple routine. And maybe I'll do that another time. You start getting more balance back and that's what's really missing in this, in this society is, is a balance imbalance and it's coming from a lack of mind management. So, okay, so to come to regret's, such a great example because it's, it's not something that only a few people experience. A hundred percent of people experience regret. It's part of being human. It's very normal. It's okay. It's okay to not be okay. And that's a big message of what I'm trying to convey to people. And when we, when I wrote this book, Help in A Hurry, as you know, I've written a lot of books and they deal with the healing journey and habit formation and the science of, and we can talk a little bit about that and we still need to do that.

That's really important. In order for us to rewire our mind, brain body network, it takes time. It's gonna take cycles of 63 days. And I know we spoke about that last time and we can touch on that a little bit later. But in the moment when I have something that I regret, I need to know what to do right now so that I can actually direct the next 63 seconds because the 63 seconds leads to two minutes and three minutes and one hour and a day and a week. So if I can learn to self-regulate now in this moment when I'm triggered, whether it is someone making me angry, whether it is something I'm regretting, whether it is someone who I wanna punch in the face, whether it is people pleasing, I catch myself what all the kind of hot buttons which I've tried to touch on in this book.

If I know how to catch myself and regulate myself in that moment and calm down my neurophysiology, tap into my wisdom, then I can identify patterns and I can then do the work, which takes a little longer, which the, he goes through the heating journey of habit formation and change, which takes cycles of 63 days. So I say all that to say. This when we talk about regret. Regret is something that everyone battles with. It's totally normal. It's okay, I'm stressing. It's okay to regret, regret, regret. If you know what to do with it in the 63 seconds, you can make it work for you, not against you. Every single one of these things you can make people pleasing work for you and not against.

You can make anger work for you're not against you. If you know how to manage the moment and if you know how to manage the moment, you can recognize the pattern. If you can recognize the pattern, you can rewire the network. So it's like a starting point and that's what these techniques are for. So regret takes, regret, creates a cycle, and it's a cycle of if only could've, should've, would've. And it's if I had done there and been there at that time, then there would've been this happening and there would've been that happening. So there's certain facts that we create that are partially true because they didn't happen. But they based on sufficient evidence and data that seem kind of like they could actually be real.

And that's why regret's so almost insidious because it feels so right to do that regret, if that makes sense. So something's happened. Maybe it's a business decision that seems so right at the time. Maybe it's someone a loved one that you're helping. Maybe it is whatever it is. Maybe it's something that you ate or said or did. TV you watch is something you listened to, which you wish you didn't. 'cause now you can't get it out your head. And you start imagining if I didn't go down that road at that, if I was there at that time, if I did this, if I said that, if I, if I could have done it this way. I could have recognized that in July last year that business decision was not the correct one and I could have gone this way and we wouldn't have wasted.

So these, these we are very good at saying what it is. And then be very good at creating a movie of counterfactuals. And a counterfactual is taking that fact that happened and building stories around it that are counter to the facts because they didn't happen and they're not going to happen because the past is finished and there's upward and downward counterfactuals. An upward counterfactual is actually worse than a downward one. An upward one is there's are more positive results. It, so in other words, these, it feels like it would've been better. So you say, if I had got them time, that wouldn't have happened, and then that leads to guilt. If I had not done that, then I would've saved this amount of money.

I wouldn't have gotten that this and this wouldn't have. And so it, it, it seemed if it, if an upward counterfactual means things would've been better, if only could have, should have, would've had actually happened. And the downward counterfactual is, well, if I had done that, a worse thing would've happened. So an upward counterfactual is so close to the situation, but it seems like a positive thing would've resulted if you had done that. So it catches you, makes you feel sick to the core, and can really keep you in a loop between the conscious mind, which is very powerful 'cause it creates, and it's, but it's very limited because it's like a toddler and it's chaotic and it's all over the place.

And it has to be controlled by the non-conscious, which is our wisdom, but an upward counterfactual, a regret, upward counterfactual, which is something that, this would've been better if I did. That keeps us stuck in the conscious mind, brain, body loop. Now, the brain and body are hosts. They don't do any thinking. They can't think. They only respond and they're only designed to respond to healthy stuff, like healthy regrets, healthy anger, health. So when we come in with toxic regret where I, now I'm in a loop where I, I just, I'm, I just can't get beyond this point. I wish I had done that. And you, you know, depression comes in and it affects you and it's viral in the way it spreads and it carries over into your work and in your relationship and the day.

And you get more and more depressed and anxious and you land up at the doctor and you think you've got, you get told you have a disorder. Meanwhile you've got stuck in that loop and it's just every moment, it's just another upward counterfactual that, another reason why you were so, and then self doubt, shame, et cetera. And it just goes, and that is energy. That's your mind is not some vape, nothing. It is electromagnetic energy. The exact thing that makes your cell phone work is a very, very, um, what's the word? Basic form of our mind, our mind's, electromagnetic energy. Electromagnetic energy is a spectrum. It, it's based on quantum physics principles. It's linked to gravitational fields. We have a field around us and through us, and this is not woo woo stuff. This is hardcore science. It's been proven over and over again. And so that's the energy that we pick up on A-Q-E-E-G in your brain on a, on a EKG when you, on your, when you have a, your heart tested, if you have an MRI, whatever.

When we, when we use any kind of technology to look inside the human body, what we see is the energy of the mind. We are seeing the impact of our thoughts inside of our body. That's what we literally seeing. And we are seeing the result of the impact of our thoughts and what it's done physically to our body. So we pick up the damage. So we pick up the wrong energy, we pick up the result of the wrong energy pick up. You throw the computer on the floor, we are going to have a computer that's not working.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: So when we've, so when we mess up our mind, when we've get stuck in that regret cycle, we are putting that kind of energy in the brain, creating that structural damage in the brain and the body, because our memory's everywhere. It's even in your toes and your fingers. It's everywhere. We, and then so that the constant pounding of that wrong energy creates a structural damage. So then we are dealing physically with some kind of damage to our genes, to our immune system, to our hormones, to whatever heart, cardiovascular, for example, anger. If we stay in a state of anger for long, which a regret can lead to levels of anger. 'cause we get angry at angry at our ourself, we get self-critical. So even though these are chapters in the book, they, they will, one can lead into the other and that kind of thing. For example, anger will release a lot of cat catecholamines, I can never say that word, which then affect our heart and can lead to cardiovascular disease, heart problems, problems with your heart, high blood pressure and that kind of thing. And that's a result of the mind using the brain and the body, specifically the heart in this case where it's being damaged. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: I wanna talk more about anger. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Okay. We are gonna jump to that.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Just a moment.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Let, let's finish the regret. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: So, and this is what I was gonna say. Actually you did you read my mind?

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Our fields are..

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I can read your mind.

SHAWN STEVENSON:  ..Interacting. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Totally, totally interacting. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: But it's, it's the fact that, you know, again, we tend to think that our brain is our mind, but every cell in our body basically has antenna or receptors that are picking up our mind.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right. So our mind isn't just local, right. Just in one spot.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: It's no.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Our whole body is in this field of our mind. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Your toes have got memories. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Oh sure.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I told that to Mel. I told, told that to Mel Robbins the other day and she could not get it. You know, that, that there's that song. I feel it in my fingers. I can't sing. I feel it in my toes. I dunno if you know which song that I'm talking about. Anyway, there's a song, I think it's one of Elton John's songs. I don't know, I'm not sure. But literally.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I thought, I thought it was, the weekend. I can't feel my face. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: No, I feel it in my fingers. I can't sing, so the tune's gonna come out.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Okay. We gotta, we're putting that on, on wax, gonna remix it.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: We, we gonna find it. We go exactly where we go. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: We are a musicians in this room right now, so. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah, I definitely don't wanna sing it. But essentially, yes, that when you, when you, um, experience a regret, you are building that into this zone of your mind first. So the mind is the first number one. If you get a sequence going and you create it, it's like, if you imagine this world, this, this zone around me, this energy field that's around and through me. So imagine it's sort of circling all around me, this energy pulsing electromagnetic field. The, the thought that you're building builds into all the details gathered together in little, like little particles and literally form a cloud. So it's literally like raindrops form a cloud. The particles of information form a thought, literally. So around me, all over me, all around you, all around you.

Whoever's listening and watching. Every human we have our field and every experience of these clouds going around us in any one moment, we building these clouds. There's information coming from the outside that are adding to the clouds and building their own clouds, and then there's information from us inside out building these clouds. So we have a mixture of those. And as soon as those clouds build, and this is happening at 400 billion actions in faster, we estimate as scientists, it's fast. We make a copy, our mind copies that and puts it into the brain as a tree-like structure. That's why I've got these trees. So it's a, and that, and that's made of proteins and chemicals and that's the, the networks that we all hear about.

It's in the neurons and whatever. So it's basically, as a cloud is copied and put into the brain and neuron grows dendrites to hold that information. So dendrites, which are the tops of neurons are the, where the copies of the clouds that the mind has made. Grow onto. So that's, they come from, they are stimulate. Does that make sense? They are activated. The, the calculus is the, the copy of the cloud makes a copy, the mind makes a copy of the little cloud, puts it in the brain. There's an electrochemical neurologic, a neuro, a neurochemical reaction, and proteins form. And the proteins grown to tree-like structures on the top of neurons.

And that's housing the thought. And the more we th the more we think the more drops in the cloud, the more branches, more drops in the cloud, more branches. So it looks like a tree in the brain made of proteins. Then the mind also makes copies of that in their little hedge kind of shape, which then go in through the cell in, inside the actual cell into the two in little protein. I don't wanna get too technical, but like little hedges right inside the cell. And that's also memory. So it's another version of memory. So we've got these and then it's all linked. So we have a worldwide web, 'cause we have 37 to a hundred trillion cells. We have a neuron can have. However many thoughts we details we put into our thought. That's how many branches we are gonna grow.

I mean, this thing is massive, right? It's a web and that's one, that's one thought. One thought is a massive web. So, and we are building these all the time. We are brilliant and we are building these networks, but if we are building networks that are regret driven or anger driven or whatever, so if I'm now stuck in that, if only I had done this and gone there that time and done this, I would've just fixed this person or helped that person or save that person or save that portion of the business that is creating a right down to your toes just for, of this way.

SHAWN STEVENSON: You feel it, you feel it everywhere. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: You feel it, it everywhere. And if you don't deal with it, it's pounding and hammering. So output and downward counterfactuals will tend to build a negative thing. So even the downward one, if I think the negative, I can get really depressed and think, well, I should have done that and that bad thing would've happened. But we can get so stuck in the bad thing, even though it doesn't have as much impact as the positive 'cause the positive makes us feel worse about not doing it right. You've gotta have, you've gotta have a balance of both. So what we need to do after that long explanation, and this kind of, this explanation kind of works for all the different things we're gonna talk about, like how it builds into the networks. What we need to do with things like regret is realize that the regret is something we can learn from this good basic stuff that we've heard before.

But I can look my regret in the face. So the, first of all, I'm must see my regret as something that is positive, which is interesting because if it's positive, why is it positive? Because it's giving me data. It's data. I'm, am we data driven? So it's what data is it giving me? Well, it's giving me something that's obviously something that worries me. It's something that's either guilt driven or it's something I can learn from. So it's data. So what can I learn from that? So the first thing you do with a, with a regret is identify, is it an upward or a downward one? It's most likely an upward because things will feel better. Make us, if I did it this way, I, I would've had a better outcome.

So it makes me feel worse. So the first thing is to face it, face on and say, Hey, you know what? It's okay to feel regret. I'm feeling this regret. I'm going to honor this regret because it gives me data. I'm not gonna honor the regret 'cause of what it does to my network. I'm gonna honor the regret because of its data. If I face that data, I can then take that data and I can make a decision. I'm gonna stay here and get more depressed and more anxious in my life. Just going to, I'm just gonna go down a rabbit hole of terrible stuff. Or I can say, what did I learn? The good old fashioned, what did I learn or what did I learn what not to do?

Like Thomas Edison said, after inventing the light bulb and after a thousand plus trials, and, and a reporter asked him, well, how do you feel about your failures? And he said, well, they're not failures. I know a thousand things that don't work. And if you, it stuck with me so much so, you can say to yourself, okay, I honor this regret. This is the name of the regret. You spend five seconds, not more, five seconds, six seconds. 10 seconds Max. Honoring that regret by just looking at it as information and say, okay, now what did I learn? What not to do? What can I take into my future? What is something? And you could, you know, you could journal this, you can write this down, you can do this quickly in your head.

You can do it in the moment. You can do a quick one in the moment to get you to the next moment and then come back to it that evening or the next day if you see it's a pattern. So in the book, what I have are tables and charts and lots of like this exercise I'm talking about now, I laid out that you can actually track it if you find it's a pattern. And that you constantly go into that kind of zone of regret with only work related stuff. Well, then you can do, do a 63 day cycle to work on regret for that kind of thing. If it's a pattern maybe with a family member, then you can work. If it's a pattern in your life that it's touching all areas, then you really do need to spend the time and do the work of going through the healing journey of 63 days of rewiring and building into a new, building, a new habit. But at least you can in the moment catch it and still carry on for the day. So that's just, I mean, that's, there's, there's more things you can do with regret, but Yeah. Yeah, I think you've got the idea. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: What you're offering, of course, is help in a hurry. So there's these.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yes.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Quick hitters. Basically. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Quick hitters for now. How do I get myself under control now? I'll deal with the big stuff when I've got. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: And sometimes it's just a very subtle change in thinking like a little perspective shift. Like for example, when you talked about in the book, and this really stood out for me, the downward counterfactual. And how, you know, and there's a lot of research indicating that that's more beneficial.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: It's not saying that it's good necessarily.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: But it's more, yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: But it's better than upward which is like that regret, if I would've done this, things would've been so much better. But downward counterfactual. And a good example would be something like, this situation happened and I'm dealing with something that I regret. I feel bad about this, but because of this thing happening, I'm gonna choose to look at it like this. I have regret, but this saved me from a future bad thing happening because this situation.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: The data.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Even though I wouldn't want this to happen, it gave me something that I can work on right now that's gonna help me to not deal with this in the future.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I put resilience. Yeah. Okay. Do you wanna say, so you wanna say that? 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Oh, that was it. So edit, edit, edit. No, that's great. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: You, you should have that in. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, I'm gonna keep that in. Okay. I'll keep that part in. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Okay. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Okay. Did you want to add to that? 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: No, I think you, you did that brilliantly. Okay. That that's, yes, that's exactly it. It's, you want to, you wanna take that data and you want to add that to your resilience and to, and that's wisdom. That's gaining knowledge. That's what have you learned. We are here to love, we are here to learn. We are here to grow as humans. So any regret, when you make it work for you, you are taking that, that fork in the road of not going down the wrong way, but actually taking that information as the data and saying, I've now learned something that I don't, that I can use in the future. Something that I don't want to do. I've grown as a person, I've learned a lesson, I'm better for it. Even though you may not feel, look for the silver lining. There's always a silver lining. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: I've got a couple of great examples. Alright.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Go for it.

SHAWN STEVENSON: So recently, I know someone who lost a loved one. They lost a family member and they were feeling a sense of regret, which was I should have picked up the phone more often. Right. Which many people experienced that. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah. Very common.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And just being really hard on themselves for a time being. And over time, you know, number one, you share this, it's okay to not be okay. And to feel that feeling because that regret can, can offer you an opportunity. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: To grow. Mm-hmm.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And what I was able to do fortunately, was to help to reframe a little bit. Of course. So, so this happened, we can't change it. That's the thing. It's like the, you stay in the regret so long and play that movie as if it's gonna change.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Change the pass. But, okay, so this, this happened, you wish you would've picked up the phone more often. Who can you pick up the phone for now? 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: There we go.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: That's exactly, that's a brilliant example. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Who can spend more time with right now? And so that you don't have this feeling again. And for many of us again, we usually have many other people in our lives who love us. And to be more proactive and to really invest in those relationships and do those small things that maybe you feel like you have regret that you didn't do previously. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: That's beautiful. And, and I love that. And, and I would add to that. I love the fact that you brought in, you know, reach out to someone else. You can also take that information and you can apply that in so many different ways. You can pick up the phone and you can help someone else. You can also sell you. A big thing that happens with regret is guilt and shame and self blame, and that in itself can become a whole terrible cycle. And it so to, to really, it's really important in, in dealing with helping hurry in a moment is to start by, and I'm gonna emphasize what I've said already and what you've already emphasized me saying, it's okay to be okay.

It's okay, honor that regret. It's okay to feel that. And even if you do feel a bit of guilt, honor that too because that little bit of guilt was what you maybe needed in that moment just to deal with that particular situation. But you're not gonna stay there. The big key thing with all of this help in the hurry stuff, all of the work that I'm trying to help people with in their mind is don't push away what you're going through. Face it full on, like our body sweats, like we, like we vomit when we sick. Like we have high fevers. You're getting it out. When we are in a society where it's kind of. It comes, the people do talk about things. There's a big emphasis on awareness compared to previous years where things were suppressed, but they're getting it out and then they don't do anything else with it.

So what I'm saying is get it out, honor it, but now do something with it. You've gotta have the learning, you've gotta take the data and you have to use it as you said, with a family member. Pick up a phone and phone another family member or look at how you have grown as a person. Look at what does that guilt mean? Why do you feel the guilt? What do you need? What's missing in your life that you feel that you, so, you know, be curious, grow. Don't get stuck there. Don't, don't get stuck in that loop. Go deep. Develop insight. Tap into your, as soon as you go deep, as soon as you get curious and ask those questions about the why.

How can I use this data? What is the silver lining? And at first, you may not see the silver lining, but there is always a silver lining because. You learn something in that moment that someone else will benefit from. And it's all about connection and helping other people. You know, that really is, we are wired for love. That's what we are as humans. So we can take those experiences and turn them around. And that's why what I meant by saying we can make regret work for us if we catch it, analyze it, and move forward. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, I love this. Got a quick break coming up. We'll be right back.

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SHAWN STEVENSON: Another downward counterfactual that I just thought about, like a specific example is if somebody, which, you know, we've got people who are tuning in and you know, just living a fitness and active lifestyle, some stuff's gonna happen. You might experience an injury, whatever the case might be. And when, when an individual is injured or even when we're sick. We tend to have some depression. Come on. Yeah.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Right. Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And this is just a chemistry is a chemistry thing. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: It's normal response. It's also a normal response. Yeah. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: And, but we don't, but getting stuck in it is the issue is problem. And so, you know, maybe somebody has, you know, a flare up of a back issue, for example. And a downward counterfactual would be, I regret this, I regret that, you know, this situation happened. But this is giving me an opportunity. It's telling me I'm grateful because this is preventing me from something potentially worse that could have happened if I wasn't taking care of myself. Like, I know I need to be taken care of myself. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: So good. You say you learned something, you took the data and you turned it around instead of regretting, why did I do that? Why did I do that? You actually took that around turn, turn that around, reframe that, reconceptualize that, and maybe find, you find another form of exercise that actually is what you needed because you weren't working a certain other group of muscles or whatever.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Yeah. So, and this, these tools are always available. They're built in. We have them. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: They're built in. We have them, we have them. We, we've gotta be careful of just staying stuck in the conscious loop. So we've got three levels of mind. We've got the conscious mind, the subconscious and the non-conscious. Not, not unconscious. Unconscious is when you're asleep or knocked out, or an anesthesia. We've gotta remember conscious, subconscious, non-conscious. The non-conscious is the biggest part. It's huge. It's infinite beyond present, past, and future. Absorbs everything around us. It is, can have multiple thoughts, man, being managed at the same time.

It's huge, massive. It's on our side. It's our best friend. It is our wisdom. It is, it's phenomenal. And all of us, that's who we are. That's at the core. It's our true self. And that's what we need to tap into. We've gotta work to find the wisdom 'cause everything we need is inside of us. The conscious mind is brilliant. It's fantastic. But it's limited. It is, it's a chaotic, messy, toddler learning decision making choice. And it's very, you obviously there's choice in the, in all levels of mind, but it's a choice that's very based on how I, my, my brain and body feel. It's very physically driven in its choice. So therefore, it's not reliable.

It can never work alone. Like you cannot let a toddler just run all over the place and they'll get hurt. So you, like a parent guides a toddler and a teenager and a, you know, you're always helping your children or you're helping people, whatever. But especially a toddler's a good example. We, our conscious mind needs the wisdom of an unconscious. So it has another level. The subconscious and the subconscious is like a waiting room. It's in between the two to give people a feeling for the, the size of these and the ability of the conscious mind is awake. When you're awake. It operates at about 2000 actions per second, which is about the amount of one conversation, about a hundred bits of information in any one moment.

The non-conscious can handle an infinite number of conversations, a conversation. Yes, we are having a conversation, but you can also see a conversation as a, as an experience, a thought. So conscious mind can handle one, an unconscious, infinite. So in this moment. You and I are having one conversation based on one general thought that we bring in a lot of detail and it's, it's stimulating other thoughts, but it's around a cluster of, it's around a concept. The non-conscious is not limited to this one conversation. It's drawing on a million different things, and it's putting ideas into the subconscious. And the subconscious can have around about four to seven conversations. So it can hold about four to seven thoughts at once. So as you and I are talking, we are stimulating each other's unconscious. The unconscious is then putting into the subconscious what we are going to say next. So, and that pops up. Now that's in this conversation in life, that happens all the time too. The unconscious is searching around for that regret cycle, that toxic looking tree, that. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Because we're having conversations with ourselves. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: We're having conversations with ourselves, and those conversations are based on our experiences and our experiences become thoughts made of memories, which, and so the non-conscious mind scans and it looks for these, the toxic ones. And it puts those, the ones that are the most disruptive to Caroline in this moment, to Shawn in this moment. To every listener and viewer in this moment, puts those in order of priority into the subconscious, into the waiting room. Triages them literally from the most important, most disruptive to the least disruptive that you need to deal with in this moment. It also puts the good stuff in, so it puts stuff like a great conversation. A great memory, a great whatever, because we need to also focus on those to build our resilience.

So a lot of the techniques in helping Hurry this book are ones that I recommend people get familiar with and practice when things are going well. So the network is already built in. So when you, in that emergency situation, when someone angers you, when you find yourself people pleasing, when the regret jumps up, you don't have to get sucked in and, and, and, and fall down that whole pathway. You can, it's gonna happen, the regret's gonna happen. But instead of it wiring in in a toxic way, you immediately catch it and direct how it's gonna wire in, in that moment. And so it's good to be proactive and practice and understand and know about these in advance. So the subconscious mind then, holds these four to seven in any one moment and it sends it up as signals.

And when we self-regulate, when we live a mind managed life, we are self-regulating. And that means I'm listening to the signals and those signals. There's four categories. It's my emotions. Which really hit us in the face. It's where am I feeling that emotion in my body. So it's our bodily sensation, it's our behaviors, what we are doing in saying in the moment and how are we doing in saying it, and our perspectives, how we are looking at life, our attitude.

And that's the four categories of signals. They're not diseases because emotions would include things like depression and anxiety. We told depression and anxiety or diseases. They're not diseases, they're signals. We, A-D-H-D-A is, is attention deficit hyperactivity. It's basically, it's a behavior. You're back to pay attention. You're kind of hyperactive. It's not a disorder. It's a set of behaviors that maybe have become extreme. So any of these can become extreme, but they work together as a team. And the, the, what we need to do is always look at the grouping and the category and pay attention to those signals. So basically these four, we have these four signals that come up.

And those signals are coming from the, the what the non-conscious is placed into the conscious mind. So for example, as we are talking now, we are going to, we are going to both have. An unconscious, putting things in our subconscious to guide our interaction. And we listening both of, 'cause you listening and I'm listening as we listen to each other and as I'm talking, I'm being guided by that information and it's coming up as a signal. So the emotion is, I'm excited, I'm positive. I can feel my body's like, you know, hyper, it's tense in a good sense of the way I'm speaking. It's, it's passionate and my, my attitude, my perception is this is I love this stuff. So that's, so that's the signal. That's then bringing up the, the data and then I'm paying attention to the data, which is the content.

So that's just to give you kind of an example and I translate that into regret, for example, with that we were speaking about those signals could be coming up as anxiety, could be the emotion, um, gut ache for the body sensation. I'm feeling like my guts or your maybe one start sweating or whatever the behaviors are. Withdrawing maybe, or irritability, the perception is, you know, I'm just away. I'm, I'm, I'm just such a mess. I, I can't do this. I, I've messed up so badly, I'm useless. That's the perception. Now, those, those are just signals. They don't give you enough information. You need to find the data that they're attached to.

So my signals I described just now, I just said those signals, I wouldn't give any information. I'm giving words, I'm explaining things. So in other words, what I'm trying to say, signals are attached to data. And that data, those, those are thoughts with memories. And when we learn to self-regulate in the 63 seconds when we face that regret on them, is it's an upward counteract. You don't even have to label it, but it's honor it by saying it. I am regretting this specified. Lay it out. You actually allowing it to come into the, into your conscious mind. And when you, soon as you are conscious of it, the most amazing neurophysiology happens. You weaken that thought. So thoughts have power, but they don't have to control us.

If it's a good thought control away with, you know, full permission to, to control away when it's, when it's a healthy thought, but a negative thought, we do not want that to control us. And that's why we have signals. So when a signal comes up and tells us, this is something I'm feeling, all these things that are not great, it's disruptive, I must pay attention now in, in the moment, those four signals, especially when it's negative stuff like regret, it's very overwhelming. And that's why we need to, we need to go to, to disrupt the potential toxic cycle in that moment, in that 63 seconds. So when you get that call, when you get that text, when you, whatever, you wanna be able to catch it in that moment. And that's why I say, for example, like the, you know, the regret thing, you can just face it straight on, say it, name it, and say it.

I'm going to, this is, it's okay to, it's okay to not feel it's okay to feel this way. I'm going to, but, and there's, there's another way of doing. I can look at something, I can look at this differently. How, what have I learned from it? You know, you can train yourself in advance to ask yourself those four questions and say, I'll, I'll deal with this later. It's okay. You know, so you, you're telling yourself, your mind, your wise mind is telling that toddler mind, it's okay, I know you feel like this. I'm honoring that, but it's not gonna help you. Let's move forward. See what I'm saying? So we can, we can give some other examples when you, when you touch on the other subject topics I know you wanted to touch on. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Of course. You know, as you just mentioned, a well-managed mind, you know, training yourself in advance. I love that quote that you don't rise to the level of the situation or you don't rise to the level of your expectations. You fall to the level of your training. Right. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: It's very good. Yeah. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: And so when things are gonna happen and how quickly can you be able to lean in and access that mind management have that habitually kind of built in.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Because, you know, stuff is gonna happen. And actually, there was something specifically in this chapter, and it was a great summation of how to approach this and with regret, don't worry about making the right decision. Make the decision. Right, right. So whatever decision that you made. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Good job. You remembered that perfectly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Wow. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: And we have that power. It's just how, how, again, how quickly and can you train yourself to get to that place of power to whatever the decision that you made, how can you make this decision the right decision?

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly. And, and that's, so that statement is something that you're gonna train yourself to do. It's not going to, so the first time you apply some of these techniques, you're gonna forget what to do and you're going to find yourself, you know, whatever, fumbling around, but everyone will remember something, they'll remember. It's okay to honor that regret because that's not something that you would normally do. You know, so it's, it's to get to, to make the, just make the decision to do something in that moment instead of just rolling with it. We've, we've made people aware now that you don't have to live in that regret cycle. You can do something about it. And that's, yeah. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. With you, we talked a little bit about this. We opened the door to it earlier. It was an A word. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Anger. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Anger. It was anger. So this is something that, and I, somebody just said this yesterday. I was just in a conversation with the very smart, successful, very experienced physician. And she was just like, I feel like people are just angrier now. Right? And I was like, I see that. I see that. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: And so what do we do? How do we get some help in a hurry when we feel like I'm just so angry. I'm angry all the time, and just so angry. What can we do? 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Anger is an emotion. It's one of the four signals and when it comes out in the way that we sing, so much of it. I mean, we were just in Paris recently and we were, I mean, there were a couple of people on the street and they're just yelling and getting it out and now on the one hand they get it out and then it's over, but it leaves an impact. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Getting it out in French. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah, they're just yelling and they have these little words and they, whatever, they just, in the middle of the street, if someone irritates them, they'll just, they'll just shout at you and it's just, you know, that's kind of what they do. It's in their culture, but then it's over so they, they get it out and they move on. So I'm not saying go and yell at someone and in the middle of the street, but essentially anger is isn't a negative emotion unless you make it a negative emotion. The big thing is that every signal is positive because every signal carries data.

And so, and emotions are a signal and anger is one of those emotions. The problem with anger is that doctor's quite right there is definitely an increase of anger, which is not surprising considering how we are not allowed to really deal with our stuff. So we've moved from suppressing the sort of boomer generation and the Gen X to a certain extent. We've moved from that to the other side of the ditch where it's pour it all out and label it. And then, then what? So it kind of, you've crashed the plane, so you've done your meditation, you've done your, I feel this, this, this. Now what? And that is creating a, it. Well, it's this release, and then you're shoving back down.

So what you're doing is you're putting that, you're bringing that thought up, you're opening it up and you're talking about it, but you're not actually moving forward. So it closes up, moves back into your unconscious, more disruptive than it was before. Now if you keep doing that, all you suppress, you maybe don't do the meditation or the neurophysiology or the breathing or the exercise or something to prepare them to control the neurophysiology. You may not be doing that, or you may be doing that without the talking about how I feel, et cetera, et cetera. You may be doing one or two or none, so you're suppressing. But if you do one, if you just meditate, if you just, if you meditate, plus talk about your feelings. If you do, neither, if you suppress.

All of those are not. Healthy on their own, they're incomplete. And any anything incomplete becomes a living force that is generating the wrong kind of energy and it's swirling and eventually it's like a whole closet that you constantly shove stuff in. And you know when guests come and you just, oh, quickly shove it all in there and one day it's so full, just everything falls out and it crashes or the volcano eventually explodes. And that's what this anger that we've seen, this sort of anger that's now become distorted and disruptive because generally anger's an emotion that makes you act, it makes you take action, it makes you move forward. Something this is not right, I'm going to fix this.

This is that, you know, that abuse or that. The thing that that person said, these, these are not good things. But it's when it becomes where turns and it becomes that it someone else is hurt when another person is hurt, when you're hurting another person and you're hurting yourself and it's chaotic, that's when it's, when it's slipped off to the other side. And that creates, that I mentioned earlier on in terms of blood pressure and heart. It's one of the ang distorted anger is one of the quickest ways of creating cardiovascular disease. Even quicker than eating the wrong kinds of food because of the fact that it has such a chemical reaction with the kinds of, it throws, all chemicals are good in our body, but when they're in a, in the wrong quantities, which incorrect anger or distorted anger will do, it then puts our heart at risk because now we've got this massive of chemicals flowing around.

We've got this very disruptive energy pattern coming from our mind into our brain making copies and adding to it. So it's just this lot of stuff coming in and then it explodes. So it's the understanding the way people move forward is hearing what we are saying and understanding that a lot of our current days way of dealing with stuff is creating this boiling anger in people where we partially deal with stuff and then we shove it down and it's worse than before. So we sing pure meditation alone, for example, backfiring. We are seeing, just talking about our feelings backfiring and leading to lots of angry outbursts. We sing the overwhelm from social media constant stimulation, not, which doesn't allow enough deep thinking.

We are designed for deep thinking. And deep thinking means I tap into my unconscious multiple times a day and we are on our cell phones every four to six seconds, which doesn't allow us to deep think that will create this, this chemical chaos that will lead to anger. So it's, it's kind of a combination of those three things that lead to distorted anger. Good anger is always controlled. It's, it always has an ending and it always generates something positive. So if your anger isn't controlled and it's not progressive and it's not creating something positive. It's distorted anger. And so if you find that that's a pattern in your life or you find that maybe, yeah, I am talking about my feelings, but not doing anything about them, or I am just meditating and it's, I'm not telling you to stop.

I'm just saying complete the cycle. You can't just meditate. You can't just talk about your feelings. You also have to reconceptualize them. You have to embrace pro and reconceptualize, which is the whole neuro cycle system I've developed, which is basically mind management. You, you can't, you, you can't suppress either. You can't just keep on social media and expect not to get angry. You can't suppress your grief. If you know, crying, for example, grief. When you in grief and you cry, hormones come out in those tears and those hormones have built up in your body because of the grief, which is overwhelming. So your body generates more chemicals for your body and those chemicals have to get out.

If they stay in, they actually can make you feel sick and can make your grief worse. So when we cry, we release those chemicals, and then we raise things like endorphins, as you know a lot about in order to help create anandamide and you know, you, you get a boost of, of chemicals that, an oxytocin, that kind of rebalance.

SHAWN STEVENSON: So I know many people have experienced that. Like they cry and they feel better. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: They feel better. There's, there's, yeah, it's, we, we need to be, be free to cry. You don't mean we all cry different ways and whatever. And, but it's those kind kinds of. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: And the chemistry changes in those tears based on why we're crying.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly. It's different chemistry each time. It's so powerful and we are supposed to get that out. It doesn't mean you have to walk around crying all the time, but a couple of tears. 

It, as I said, it's different. We all have our own way of crying and different patterns and different situations, but essentially that the anger is when it's distorted, we've gotta get it out and it's gotta be progressive in a way. So a way of dealing with anger in the moment is, once again, I'm giving knowledge. We giving knowledge. That's why in, in the every chapter of the book, there's a little bit of this explanation that we are doing and then a technique with charts and whatever to help people to practice dealing with it. So if that is an issue, if you have an anger that's progressive and doesn't, it doesn't lead to, I mean, it's just.

It's disruptive, it's chaotic. Then one of the things that works really well is to create a gap. And a little gap is the neurophysiology of that emotion of anger is very strong in your body. It's gonna have a very, when it's disruptive, it, as I mentioned, the cat catecholamines and the different hormones. It disrupts a lot of hormones, not just one. But I specifically said, I cannot say that word cat killer means because those go straight to the heart. And that's why we see people dropping down dead. People that are constantly angry seem at the prime of their life, but they're always reacting in anger in the, in the office or something just drop down dead from a heart attack. Angry people drop down dead from a heart attack. So this is very real. Also, a lot of GI problems. People that have a lot of anger that they don't release. It accumulates any tremendous GI problems. So those are two, a lot of other areas, but those are two major areas that get affected. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: So let's say that I am. I'm f**king angry. And I'm angry.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And I just can't let it go. I can't get out of this anger. What will you tell me to do? 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: What can you do? What I'll tell you to do is to create a gap. I tell you to count 2, 2 6, which is 10 seconds. So you're gonna, you're going to breathe in for two, you're gonna hold for two, and you're gonna breathe out for six counts. And you're gonna do that six times. So it's info two, hold for two out for two, and I'll explain the science behind it in a moment. And you're gonna do it six times. So you've done two. So let's do another four info. Two, hold for two, out for six. For the balance of three, I want you to actually, when you breathe in, I want you to say, let in your mind.

And then when you breathe out, go in your mind. Okay. So in one, two, hold, one, two. And you're saying let. And now with the six counts, go. Now the last two in. Two, hold in two. Hold two saying, let out six saying Go. Last one in one, two, hold one, two saying let, and then go. Six counts saying Go. That is 60 seconds and it's completely changed your neurophysiology.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Can I say this? All right? 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yes. Go for it. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: I felt better after the first one. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: And sometimes you can just do one and it's, it's enough. But so that 60 seconds, those, that's 63 seconds is. It is key in rewiring, but if you get it right in 10 seconds, fantastic. Then. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: I to try to drum up something to be angry about, but. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I'm sure we can all think of some. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. You're not an angry, you know, you don't, you control your anger. Then the other thing you can do is use I statements because our natural reaction when we are angry is to say, you have done that again. You didn't listen, you did this, you that, they that. So we immediately, and you can look at my body movements. The minute I take that anger and I do that, it comes out in these very vigorous heart. And that's really bad for your heart. I mean, just doing that in demonstration, I don't feel, I didn't feel very good. And if you look at someone who's in that set of anger, they're doing that, you know, all the blood vessels, everything.

I mean, everything's just not good. So using a you statement in a state of anger's bad use an I statement. So breathe and then say, okay, I am feeling angry. Because that person did this or they did that, and you say it out loud or write it down or say it in your head. It's phenomenal how it'll calm you down.

And even if you have to say it over a couple of times, you can, even if you do that for a full 60 seconds and just add detail on, so you create that space for yourself. So you could do three little of the breath things and three and the other 30 seconds. You could say a statement. There's a lot you can do in 60 seconds.

That's why I say practice work out a little formula. With that combination, it completely breaks down and gets you into that space where you can tap into your wisdom. Every time we get stuck in regret or anger or any of these, these sort of top 18 things that I've identified from surveys and research and clinical practice that are kind of the things that really, there's a lot more, but these are the top ones that people that catch people anytime that you're in, any of one of those, we can learn to catch those in that 63 seconds and redirect what's gonna happen in the next hour in the next. You know, and then you start training yourself and you start retraining those circuits and that kind of thing. You can catch it, you can catch it in 63 seconds.

SHAWN STEVENSON: This is, again, it's mind management. We've got..

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: It's mind management.

SHAWN STEVENSON:  ...the instant help, right? With the breathing. But this, we, we've gotta do the work.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: We've gotta do the work. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right. Because we're gonna have an emotional place that we kind of live and hang out because of the, the branches be because of what we've grown accustomed to.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly. Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right. And so it's, it's being able to fortify, support the, the trees that we want to grow. And to allow the other trees to kind of be pruned away and to dissolve.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly. They, they just, they deconstruct and reconstruct so they never completely go away because our stories never change, but we can change what they look like inside of us. So, quite rightly, what you say, they deconstruct, they get small, and then we rebuild. We can't just pull one out. We can't just replace a negative thought with a positive thought. We can't just take an angry thought out and pop in a positive, which is very much sort of the CBT affirmation. Those, you've gotta do the work first, and then you can do that. You've gotta first work through the process, and then you can use that as a, as a practice tool, as a technique. Very quickly, also, what happens if we try and get, if we don't manage it, any of these things.

We get stuck in the conscious mind, toddler mind, without the parent. And that, and the brain, mind, body. So we get stuck in the conscious mind, brain, body loop, but we don't tap into the unconscious. So, and the unconscious is where wisdom is, and that's not good. That means you've let your toddler run out in the road. That's literally what's happening. And we know what will happen if that happens. Or you lett your toddler, go turn on the, on the stove, you know, or you've let your toddler throw their toys all over the place or something like that. That's what we do. So that's why it's so vital that we learn to recognize I'm in regret.

Let me catch, let me, and as soon as I catch, I get insight because we lose tremendous insight when we're in anger or regret or any of these situations. People pleasing. We don't have insight. We don't think deeply. We don't have good cognitive fluency. So these little techniques that you can do in 63 seconds take you into the depths. And it may be not be very deep the first moment, but as you practice, you learn to get very deeply, very quickly. So that's what's happening. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: I want to ask you about this because again, you address pretty much all the common feelings, problems, what people are, are immersed in today, whether it's anger or regret or, you know, not feeling like I'm not happy enough. Right? You know, you have a culture that's always promoting, you know, you should be happy.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Oh gosh.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right? And so you, you talk about this as well, and, and one of them is my inner critic won't let up. Right? Just constantly criticizing themselves and they got this inner critic, this voice in our heads. What is that voice? 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: That is us being so harsh on ourselves and it's coming from you exactly what you just said. Our productivity culture where we have such a, you've gotta be happy, you've gotta be productive, you've gotta have your goals, you've gotta have your vision board. If you, if you say there's something wrong with you, why aren't you happy all the time? Seek after that goal of happiness, positive psychology, toxic positivity, all these things you've had, sweep, what are you doing? Or is every moment filled? Um, you know, it's like I'm doing it. The guilt when you're not working the French, excuse the example, but they got it right. They take two hours, lunch break every day, and you'll see them between 12 and two.

They in the park, they're drinking their wine, they're having their lunch, and then they go back to work and after work they connect and they talk. I think honestly, Paris has got the, the culture, they've got this, this thing really down in terms of that sort of thing. We, we are, so when it comes to. The inner critic, once again, a bit like the regret and the anger, all these things, when, when I don't manage it, it gets out of hand. So when I look, when I, when, when we live in a zeitgeist that is so externally focused, which you also spoke about in the beginning, that has an external locus of con of, of goal control, where that's what we've gotta be like.

That productive, that happy, that, that, it's so unrealistic. That's why goal settings also a bit dangerous because we set one goal and that kind of thing. When we live in that kind of society, we constantly comparing social media, fomo, you mentioned it earlier on. You know, we scroll through and even though we know it's curated, how, why don't I look like that? Why, why aren't I getting, why don't I have as many followers? You know, we've all fallen into that trap, so we've got so much data coming at us that, at such a fast speed, and we are not taking time to actually stand back and say, Hey, look how well Shawn's doing. That's amazing. I'm so excited for him. I can't do what Shawn's doing, but I can do what I'm doing, so what can I learn?

Enhancement. We don't do that. We so caught up in this, oh wow, look what Shawn's doing. Oh wow. I'm so stupid. Why can't I do that? And you be hostile with ourselves and we, and we start criticizing and, like, and it's coming from a lot of letting the outside control us instead of getting to know who we truly are. When we spend time in mind management, when we spend time stopping that flow in the 63 seconds and learning how to dive deep over the 63 days, we start realizing I can celebrate Shawn, not be jealous of Shawn. And if I am a little jealous of Shawn, I'm not gonna. Hit myself over the head and be hostile and self-critical.

I'm gonna say, yes, I am jealous of Shawn or whatever. I'm just giving you some dumb example. But, but why? There's a reason. So what data can I get from there? That's okay to be, it's okay Caroline. It's okay, Shawn to be jealous. Whatever. It's okay to not be okay. It's okay, but what can I learn from it? What is it telling me? And that then shifts this, the self-criticism, oh, I'm jealous again that I, I feel so guilty. I'm so bad. I'm, I'm useless. I can't do what they're doing. And now I'm jealous on top of it. And that we, we leave me busy and then self social media and then we run and then I've gotta be happy and I'm not happy.

It's hitting us in every direction. We gotta stop the flow. We've gotta stop that flow and we've got to stop ourselves. So how do we stop ourself in the moment? A couple of simple things that you can do. And the one is kind of silly, but imagine an ant, a tiny little ant. But first of all, imagine a big red ant next to it. So you know those red ant that hurt. And imagine they're on a stage and the curtain opens. And there's this red ant and you're, and there's not one, there's a lot. And you're standing in the stage and there's a lot of red ant and they biting you. And this is you attacking yourself, attacking yourself. Now move off the stage.

You've got the power to get rid of those red ant, but you've gotta get off the stage. So you get off the stage, you sit in the audience and you watch, and you sit back and you say, okay, so you bit me. And then that's what is that self? What was that self-criticism? I'm not as good as Shawn. What's that one saying? You bit me. I bit you because you're saying and whatever, whatever the, so, and as you say them, they turn from a red ante into a little black auntie. Eventually there's just one little black ante and eventually there's no ants. And you, so you are watching, I mean, it's such a simple exercise. You can do it really fast, but it takes that power out of that self-criticism and it makes you stop for a moment and think, okay, you know.

Let me be curious. What's the data always? What's the data? What's the silver lining? What is this telling me? How can I grow? My whole purpose as a human is to grow and to learn and to operate in love. So it's okay to not be okay because most of us are not okay anyway. And that's normal. That's part of being human. So I can now learn from that to grow and to be at more at peace. What we should be seeking is peace, not happiness. And I know we are gonna talk about happiness, but that's, that's a great exercise for self-criticism. There's others, I've got lots of little fun things like that to do, but they work. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's so powerful because you're taking something that is just floating around, right? These feelings that we have and you're concentrating it into, you know, kind of personifying it as an ant. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Like you're giving it, it's small something, some substance, and also it's small. Yeah. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I can stamp on it, right? I can, yeah. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: And you know, again, so many of these thoughts are just overwhelming or, and, but they're fleeting, they're floating around and we don't really

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: we let them create chaos.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Identify them.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Right, exactly. We don't identify them. We just leave them a swirling, chaotic mass. And we don't have to, we can order them, we can put them on the stage, we can put them in that box, we can order our mind, brain, body connection is very ordered. You know, as a, as a understanding about food and exercise. We've gotta have order, we've gotta have routine. That is our mind, brain, body connection. It's what we, everything's organized and clustered what we do with our toddler mind, our conscious mind, which is so powerful, but we don't use it properly. It works well when it connects with an unconscious, when it listens to the signal from the subconscious.

But we let it get chaotic. You know, another thing you can do with the end and the self-criticism is you can say, okay, you know what? Thanks for sharing that with me. I appreciate it, but you know what, and I'm curious about why, and I'm gonna find the why. And I recognize I'm not gonna find the why now. It's probably gonna take me 63 days, but thanks, I don't want that now. And close the curtain. The end of the show, leave the theater and move on with your day. I mean, it's those things that you visualize. It's very, very powerful little exercises that, that you can just get you through into the next moment. And you can do all of that in 63 seconds. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: So, okay. But sidebar question, I want to, I saw your bonuses. It's almost a thousand dollars worth of stuff.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: So I wanna put this out like a couple weeks before, before launch, launch. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Sure. Thank you. That'll be amazing. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: To support the pre-orders.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Thank you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: But I just think that it's in the summit as well. You know, I did the summit with the cookbook and successful. So, but with, we're going to, I'm gonna point to talking about happiness in the book. We'll, we'll save that. And, um, I'm just gonna pitch you one more question. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Perfect. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Is that good? Okay. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: So did you wanna do happiness or, I didn't. Do you wanna leave the happiness? Okay. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: So, we'll, that little part where she said, we'll talk, we're gonna talk about happiness, just snip that little part out.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Okay.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Okay. All right. We started this off with me saying that we need some help and we do. And this isn't something that is just going to be, you know, snap your fingers and everything is fixed. It's about doing the work. But also it is so comforting to know that we have solutions in the moment. We can feel better now. We can rise to the occasion now. We can get through the day. And that was really the, the premise of this book from what I took from it.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah, exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: 'Cause so many of us just feel like I can't even make it through the day I'm struggling.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And so giving us these mental prescriptions for us to use is so valuable. And if you could, can you share what people can expect when they pick up a copy of help in a hurry? 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Oh, absolutely. And I love how you said that. You literally quoted my chapter 18 at the beginning there. I don't thank you for reading the book so intensely. Beautifully said. So yeah, they basically, it's short chapters covering those main areas like the jealousy and the self, I mean the anger and the self-criticism and the intrusive thoughts, all that, the sort of top 18 that has come from surveys and clinical research and application and so on. And they, it's short explanation of what it is, a little bit of the science, very simple. And then there's techniques, there's five or six techniques for each one. Like on pressure there's seven different types of pressure cooker points. Like for example, I didn't get X done. And can, can I quickly explain? 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Absolutely please.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I didn't get x done.

SHAWN STEVENSON: This, this feeling. So help. I'm under pressure.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I'm under pressure. Yeah. Help. I'm under, each chapter starts, it's help. I'm under pressure, help, I'm angry or help, I'm tired all time. More help on people pleasing. And then it explains what it is with a bit of science. And then there's techniques, there's charts. You can download them as a QR code. They can download the charts and they can fill those charts in. The idea of the charts is to take the, the techniques you are charted, um, is for you to then apply that and proactively learn those techniques so that you, and also to track patterns to see if you've got patterns. And then if you've got patterns, then I recommend they do the neuro cycle, which is, we've got it in an app, I've got it in the book, and the QR codes are in there and there's discounts and whatever. There's a whole lot of pre-order bonuses to help people to understand this as well. So they can pretty much expect, Shawn, what you were saying in the beginning. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Wait before you get to that.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Sorry.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And edit the pressure. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Okay, let's come back. Oh, yes, I forgot to say that. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: So if you just wanna pick up there. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: So basically like one of the most common pressure cooker points, and think of a pressure cooker. It's a great way of cooking because the steam makes things cook quicker, but it's gotta be set at a certain, in a certain way. And if there's too much steam, it explodes and makes songs and the thing pops. That's what, pressure does to us. Pressure's good for us. Pressure makes us move forward. Pressure creates positive stress in us, like anger creates positive, all these things.

These are, they're actually all positive if we know how to use them. We know pressure is when, as we know with pressure is a lot of things coming at us, which is, that's why it's sort of that the first chapter was pressure because all of these things create a sense of pressure. If I understand that, how to use that pressure, I can keep the pressure cooker from exploding. And so one of the, it's direct, there's seven main ones. There's th there's about 13, but I found that there were seven top ones that came out, and one of the top ones of those seven is, I didn't get X done. So this is in a productive, highly productive, sort of pressurized society is very often, and I know I felt proud to this.

That's why it really was something, and I still have to catch myself, but I would get into bed. I'd been married to Mac for 37 years. We just celebrated our 37th wedding anniversary. And I think for the first 10 years of our life, I would get into bed. And even now, I don't do it often anymore, but I'd get into bed at night and I'd say, oh, I didn't get. The stuck and I'd get, so I couldn't sleep. I became so toxic then regret followed, and then I felt this, my chest felt like it was gonna burst. I got angry and frustrated. So, you know, it kind of, and, and I just couldn't sleep. And eventually Mac turned around. He's so good at reconceptualizing and like sometimes I think most of the words, a lot of the wisdom's coming from his brilliance.

But, he turned on, he said to me, instead of saying what I didn't get done, why didn't you say what you did get done? I think he was just so tired of me keeping him awake. And he said, like, what? You know, what, what? Don't you say what you did do? And I said, I didn't do anything. He said, oh, come on. And he started, let's look at what you've done. So that's the idea there is, you know, that I didn't get x done. Sure, that's okay. But let's, let's, there's a chart. You can fill in a chart and you can actually, and you can go through. So the first thing, there's like a chart with four little steps that you go through. And the first thing is to acknowledge what you didn't get done.

Always honor that you've heard me say throughout this interview. Honor. That whatever it is that you're going through. And the honor is not for the thing, it's for the data that it provides. So write it down, then look at, okay, how's that making you feel in this moment? Remember, we just, this is quick. We are not doing it. So how you feel in this moment? How's this making you feel? So it's making me feel, as I described, awful, frustrated, whatever. And then you're going to say, okay, well what do, how am I going to do a mind shift? The concept of a mind shift? What can I, how can I shift my mind around this? So the mind shift there was, well, what have I done?

And as soon as you start looking at what you have done and you list that down, oh, I actually did all of those things. Okay, so what you didn't get done, can you make a plan? So it's, it's to get it out. Acknowledge how you feel. And then do the mind shift. Yeah. Which is look at it from a different angle and then come up with some sort of little exercise or technique. Okay, well I can do that tomorrow that I didn't do today and that was really cool what I did today. And immediately it'll calm you down. So that's an example. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Shout out to Mac, who's here in the studio, by the way. Being able to handle that situation because.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: So Well, he did.

SHAWN STEVENSON: As soon as you said what you said, which I'm gonna repeat it here, I thought about my wife. All right. So when, when you're saying of course and acknowledging and honoring that, like, I, I didn't get such and such done. Well what did you get done? And you saying I didn't get anything done. Right. And just going to the extreme.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And that's one of things I would talk about. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Like a white thinking. Yeah. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: Let's talk about how it is, but don't make it worse than it is.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: You know, like, so, and, and a lot of times when you're in that space, you don't want to hear it. Right. And so sometimes it might have to come from a patient voice or something even, you know, outside of that, which.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: What I've learned is really helpful for my, for my wife is listening. To you or listening to somebody who's a guest or a friend or something like that.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Yeah, I agree.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Who's usually telling them something that telling her so something Of course that you know, and I just already. And I just sit there and over time of course I've just been more like, yeah. You know, like instead of me being like, you know, I told you that. But just allowing her to have those revelations. And I'm, again, my, just to be clear, my wife is perfect.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Like capital P.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly. Right.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Exactly. And the same thing. But it's so funny because I tend to, of course I do have a positive disposition, but that like 1% of the time, or maybe 2% of the time I'm not, she's right there on me and being that person for me. You know, it's easy. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: That's the thing, Shawn, that's one of the other things is we can get into those places of regret as well and all these things, and it's like a tunnel and a tunnel filled with sinking sand that I talk about in the book as well as an analogy. And so that pressure cooker, you can, you can, all of these things can, so the tunnel thing is a good example. So whatever it is, whether it's the regret or the anger or the pressure, I didn't get X done. And, and you'll see where I'm going with this. In that tunnel, there's sinking sand and you can either get stuck in the sinking sand of I didn't get X done, or the regret, or whatever it is.

Or you can actually accept the branch from mac, from your wife and you can actually then, 'cause you can't, if you just do this and the sinking, you'll sink. 'cause every bit of movement, every bit of chaos creates more chaos and you sink. But if you stay still, stay calm, create the gap, reach out for the help. And that's where giving perspective, it's so much easier to give someone else advice and give yourself advice. So we've got that wisdom that's inside of us. 'cause some, I was being interviewed about this. Someone asked me, but what if I feel like I don't have any wisdom? Then I said, well, when did you last? When did someone last ask you something? Ask you for advice? And then, oh, this and this. I said, did you give good advice?

Where did it come from? You have wisdom. We are just better at giving it to other people than ourselves. So we've gotta learn to reach out because we do get perspective and, and we definitely need to encourage more of that. We are so, we don't just have to wait for a therapist to tell us we are loved ones. That's why we need community, right? That's why we need to build deep, meaningful relationships because different people in our lives are gonna throw us a branch and pull us outta the sinking sand. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: But we've gotta have the willingness.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: The willingness.

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's another thing for us to..

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: ..do in the work. Reach out with the branch.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I do it alone.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Because you might not even sink. I don't like the length of that branch or whatever. You know, just like somebody's extending the branch. Take the branch. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Take the branch. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: This has been so awesome. I love hanging out with you. I'm so glad I get to hang out with you more as well, and. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I love it too. Thank you. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: This book is Please everybody listening get, don't just get this book for yourself, get this for somebody that you care about. The chapters, as you mentioned, are very short, and they're very punchy, very insightful. I learned a lot. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Oh, good. Thank you. You know so much. I'm very honored. Thank you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, I appreciate that. And also what you did was you gave language to certain things that I've thought about or considered before, you know, but I just didn't know like I was doing that thing, you know? And so it's, it's just, it's fascinating, but also very helpful. And right now, and everybody's gotta take action on this right now, because when you pre-order a help in a hurry, you're going to get access to almost a thousand dollars in bonuses. And this includes the Help In a Hurry Summit, the Help in A Hurry masterclass, a mini book with quotes and affirmations and all kinds of really cool stuff. And you're gonna get all that for free when you go to Help in a hurry. book.com. All right, help in a hurry. book.com.

You can get the book from your favorite retailer right there on the website and pre-order the book. And you're gonna get all of these bonuses, which you are even a part of the summit that I did for the East Smarter Family Cookbook. These summits are phenomenal, the wisdom, the insights, and you get free access to this and it's hundreds of dollars of value. Easily, easily. And you get that for free. So I highly encourage everybody right now, go to help in a hurry book.com, pre-order the book, get all those great bonuses, almost a thousand dollars of value in those bonuses. You're the best.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: Oh, thank you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I really appreciate you. Thank you. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: You said that so nicely. Thank you. I wanna get the book. You made me excited. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's what it's all about. You know, and again, I'm just so grateful for you and you know, I happened upon one of your books, thanks to my daughter when she was in high school. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I love that. Yeah. Really. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: And to have you here and it's something you know, that I get to talk with her about. And you know, I've learned so much and I'm so grateful because you know, you've given voice to, and our advocate for the thing that is most important. And unfortunately in our culture today, we've been deflected from our mind and from our real power. And so I just really appreciate it. 

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: You said that beautifully. Thank you so much. I'm very thank you. Well, I, the feelings mutual. I love what you do as well and I always love talking to you. It's always, always come away feeling so, so wonderful. So it's a great green tree to go and build resilience when I think of our conversation, so thank you. 

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's right. We got amazing trees over here, baby.

DR. CAROLINE LEAF: I tell you. Thank you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Dr. Caroline Leaf, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you really enjoyed this and make sure to grab a copy of Dr. Leaf's new book. It is incredibly valuable. It's called Help in A Hurry, and right now, as of this release, you can pre-order the book and get almost a thousand dollars in free bonuses. All right? So take action on this. Go to help in a hurry book.com, and that's where you can get access to pre-ordering the book and all of these incredible bonuses. We got some amazing masterclasses and world-class guests coming your way very, very soon. So be ready. Make sure to stay tuned. Take care. Have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon.

And for more after the show, make sure to head over to the model health show.com. That's where you can find all of the show notes. You can find transcriptions videos for each episode. And if you've got a comment, you can leave me a comment there as well. And please make sure to head over to iTunes and leave us a rating to let everybody know that the show is awesome. And I appreciate that so much and take care. I promise, to keep giving you more powerful, empowering, great content to help you transform your life. Thanks for tuning in.