Shawn Stevenson: Welcome to The Model Health Show, this is fitness and nutrition expert, Shawn Stevenson, and I'm so grateful for you tuning in with me today. I'm so excited about this episode. We got one of my best friends on the planet and also one of the top fitness influencers on the planet on the show today as well. He's got an incredible story and he's taking his story to an entirely new level.

Not only has 2020 been bananas in pajamas already, and just... Not just nuts, but walnuts, chestnuts, freaking pistachio, peanuts which aren't actually nuts, they're legumes, just outrageous crazy. But he's about to do something that I think is going to shock you. It's part crazy, part amazing, but that's what humanity is right now. So... But it's also just super inspiring, and the layers beneath what he's going to share today, I think, is going to be incredibly valuable for all of us. So again, really pumped about this episode. And also, just check out his... If you're watching us on YouTube, check out his T-shirt. If you're watching on YouTube, check out my T-shirt, alright? Now I get all these incredible... There's so many incredible companies out there that are making gear and I get access to it. It's just such a gift. And these particular shirts says, "Be strong." Be strong.

And now it just even has me thinking about how life has changed so much from the reality that I lived in before, and both were available. Right now, I have access to clothes, whereas before we're getting the hand-me-down jump-offs. If I wanted an outfit, guess what my mom is going to do? Layaway. Do you know layaway? Some people probably don't even know what that is. That means you go to the store, you go to Kmart, you shop, you get your outfits, "I can't wait. Oh, this is so nice, Mom." And then she puts it on a layaway, which means she pays a little bit down and she comes and puts money on it over time, and you'll eventually get your clothes when they're out of fashion, six months or a year later, whenever the case might be.

So many layaways were started, never completed, alright? But today I could get my own clothes. It's just a gratitude point. But also, it's just this spectrum of reality, the spectrum of life and growth, and being able to even see the beauty in those moments. My mom was doing the best that she could. We had the nostalgia and the feeling that we're about to be super fly, but... And partially, a lot of the things that we do in life, it's the feeling that we're after. It's not even the thing. And if we understand how powerful our minds are, we can go there now. We don't have to wait till we have the external example, the external condition for us to have the feeling of what love looks like. The feeling of what a good relationship looks like, the feeling of what success or driving in that car that you envisioned yourself in. You can close your eyes and you could take yourself there.

And what we know now in neuroscience is that that experience of imagineering or visualization is as real to... The mind does not know the difference. It doesn't even know the difference. And if we look at some of the principles of success and all of the incredible teachers that we've even had on this show for you over the years, who would tell you how powerful it is when you can get clear on a vision, you feel the feelings of what those things actually would feel like to have those things in your life, and how quickly that starts to create a resonance and a draw of those things that actually manifest and be there in your life in a real way.

And of course, me being somebody who's very analytical and like, "Where is the tangibility of this? Where is the science to this?" Some things we still don't understand, we can't explain. But one of the things that I talked about on the show several times is the Phantom DNA experiment that was done not that long ago actually. And we know that even in a vacuum when a scientist is doing an experiment and they have a vacuum created where there's nothing inside of it, all the air is... Everything is removed, there's nothing there, but what you cannot get rid of are biophotons. These little packets of light, these little packets of energy that, at their core, this is the thing that we have the greatest understanding, that they make up the physical structure of everything that we see in the world around us, these biophotons, these little packets of energy.

So even if we have a powerful enough microscope, keep zooming in, zooming in, zooming in, eventually there's nothing, it's energy. But take a step out from there, we have biophotons, these packets of energy, and that's what we're made of. When you're looking at me, you might see somebody who seems like a solid being, right? Same thing, if you look down at your body, you look at your hand, but with a powerful enough microscope and the technology that we're developing, we could see that your hand is just vibrating atoms. It's just this compilation of vibrating atoms spinning around at this incredible pace, and most of you is energy or empty space, what appears to be empty space.

It's super freaky stuff, I know. So we're not going to get too much deeper into it, but I want to talk about this, how we're impacting the world around us. And this Phantom DNA experiment, what they did was, they took human DNA and put it into the vacuum and just to see what would happen. And these biophotons that they just can't get rid of, what happened when they put the human DNA into the vacuum, the biophotons attached themselves and conformed themselves to the human DNA. These scattered, random biophotons conformed to the human DNA that was added to the vacuum.

Now, of course, when they see this, it's profound, but here's what was more profound; when they removed the human DNA, the scientists expected that the biophotons would just go back to their random, scattered original formation. But that's not what happened. When they removed the human DNA, the biophotons, these packets of energy that make up the world around us, stayed in the same conformation that they went into when the human DNA was present. The human DNA created a level of permanency on those biophotons, the stuff that makes up our entire reality, conformed to the human DNA and it left a print, it left a fingerprint on the world around it. Okay, so I hope that makes sense and you're starting to see where this is going. You are made of that. You are made of human DNA. You're made of that stuff. And your consciousness, the stuff that you're made of, this power that you have as a human being, impresses upon the environment around us and helps to kind of shape and conform the world around us, even at the most minute level that we have no idea about, we don't understand, we might not acknowledge that it's happening, but it's happening.

It might be in the most minute way and dissipate. But the more that we focus on a thing, the more that we put our time and our energy and our intention and our presence into a thing, the more that we start to shape and influence the world around us. Alright. So this is getting into the quantum physics, the quantum realm, but that's where science is at now. It's affirming things that the ancients would write about and discuss. We've gone from the miasmatic theory, the germ theory, we're at quantum physics right now, and we're just understanding more and more how little we know about reality. We walk around here like we've got things figured out like we've got life figured out like we can't just solve our problems, we could solve everybody else's problems, but we don't know anything. We don't really understand, even when we're talking about virology. Humans, we know about less than 1% of all the viruses that there are, and we know less than 1% about the viruses that we know about how they operate. And I promise you, you're hearing it here first. I guarantee you, within the next several years to decades, they're going to find out, because viruses are infinitesimally small, right? We could fit hundreds of thousands of virus particles into a single bacteria. They're measured in nanometers.

They're going to find that the viruses have viruses. You heard it here first. They're going to be able to see like, "Oh wait, we found something else, and that this thing is the problem. This is really the thing making us sick." We keep zooming in, zooming in, zooming in, and looking at the minute, which is great, it's important, but we have to be able to zoom out and take a look at the meta-perspective as well. That's called balance. That's called wisdom and a holistic viewpoint and seeing the whole because we start getting so specific in things that we miss... This is the saying of not seeing the forest for the trees.

So being so focused on one thing and all you see is that thing in front of you, you miss out on the bigger picture. So I hope that makes sense. This is something we're really working to evolve to. And as science continues to push forward, being able to bring a level of balance to it, understanding that it's never the one thing. Even when we're talking about virology, it's never the virus operating in a vacuum. Because so often there's been experiments done where they take the determined virus or bacteria that's determined to be the causative factor for people getting sick and implanting it into different organisms and seeing that they don't get sick. But when you change the condition that the organism is in, or you change the solution for the bacteria or the virus to be able to replicate when you change the conditions of it, it's able to take hold and to do the dirty things that it's possible for it to do, but the conditions matter.

And we got to stop looking at things in a vacuum, like the human DNA experiment, the Phantom DNA experiment, and understand that there's a bigger world that all of this is impacting. So I hope that makes sense, and I hope that this encourages you to remember how powerful you are to impress upon reality. We have to understand that. And again, this is something that takes you deep down a rabbit hole. We have more and more science coming out, coming forward, and of course, we continue to bring the very best people in the world to talk about these things with you. If you're interested in this topic that I just felt compelled to talk about today, we'll put in the show notes for you the episode we did with Dr. Joe Dispenza, for example.

As the French say, it's "le flame," or "la flame," or "le fire." I don't know, but the French say it a certain way. Shoutout to everybody listening France, by the way. Je m'appelle Shawn. Comment Allez Vous? Shoutout to eighth grade French, man, I... Nevermind. So I'm just excited, but also when I think of France and I think of taking French, I think about the culinary. I think about the cuisine, right? French food is just renowned in nutrition. And if you look at some of the practices that come from the incredible culture, and you see the level of health that the French citizens have been able to maintain or sustain, but of course, there's more and more of the "Western diet", fast food paradigm has integrated itself in. But even over in Europe, there are different standards, even for processed foods than there are here in the United States.

The United States, we have the worst of the worst when it comes to ingredients that are considered grass or generally accepted as safe, that are added to our food supply that have been banned in Europe. But a long history and culture of full-fat foods, right? Understanding that the fat is not the problem, because we have this paradigm where if you think if we eat fat, it's going to make you fat, but that's not how science really works. It's the same paradigm if I eat blueberries, I'm going to turn blue. It's that same level of thinking, and this is what I was taught in my university classes as well, is we had to get people on a low-fat diet, high fiber, low fat or high grain diet, and we saw that that just didn't work for so many people. But again, if we look at cultures all around the world, some cultures do have by proxy lower fat protocols that they're able to sustain, but it's whole foods-based diets.

And the same thing with higher fat diets. We see some cultures around the world who have diets that are 80% to 90% dietary fats who have little to no traces of cardiovascular disease or diabetes or anything like that. So we have to take, again, all of these things into a context, into consideration, because where do our specific genes come from? Where's the closest with our lineage? How did our ancestors, our closest ancestors, eat? Maybe if we eat a little bit closer to that, we'll experience a different level of health. And what we have access to today is, we have access to every kind of food and superfood you can imagine, which has just been such a gift for me over the years. And it's been quietly behind the scenes the thing that really got me into this space at this level was, even when I was struggling just to get by, I was investing in different foods that I never heard of before in my life; from goji berries to cacao to mangosteen to acai, all these things. This was about getting close to 20 years ago now, and I was just infatuated. And I was just wondering like, "Why don't we know about it?" I know about Krispy Kremes, but I don't know about mangosteen. I know about Burger King, but I don't know about the king of the mushrooms, right? We got chaga, we got reishi.

See, so when I found out about these things, I would just became obsessed and started to study them and share with as many people as I could. And it started off working with the clients I was working with. And then taking that out and teaching small classes to the classes getting filled up. And just in my mother-in-law's kitchen. The first class, three people, and I was scared. And I knew two of them, scared. And my concern was I wanted to make sure that I communicated this correctly, how much joy I'm feeling and experiencing and what I've learned. But all of that fear dissipated when I shifted the attention off of myself and on to how can I serve and how can I help these incredible people in front of me to gain some type of tool or insight that they can use in their life moving forward? And that started the journey.

And even way back, one of the things that I was bringing to the fold was turmeric. And it's something my mother-in-law would get as well. We had the root. It looks like ginger, it's in the same family, actually, when you talk about the real turmeric itself. And I was throwing that into juices like, "Ooh, you got to have the right formula." But now we've got all these incredible supplements that are doing things the right way because there's one thing to have a turmeric supplement that has all these binders and fillers and it's coming from turmeric that's been like... It's not... It's like a golden shower of pesticides has been sprayed upon it, and hopefully you know what a golden shower is, alright.

But that level of turmeric, and we're getting the "medicine" along with poisons. And so companies that are doing things the right way, and myself and my family, we have it right over there in our cabinets and we keep it stocked. We get our turmeric, our daily turmeric formula that I have all the time, and also the Organifi Gold product, and the hallmark ingredient is organic supercritical extract of turmeric. And the reason that this is important today in this conversation and what we're going to get into today is that turmeric and curcumin are well noted for their anti-inflammatory capacity. I mean, tons of studies on how effective curcumin, which is the... One of the active ingredients in turmeric, and turmeric itself, are well noted, study after study, to be incredibly effective at reducing inflammation. It's mind boggling.

One of the things that's not talked about enough is the fact that... And this was published in the European Journal of Nutrition, found that turmeric is also able to not only down regulate inflammatory cytokines, it's related to what our body fat does, our fat cells are inflamed when they're growing and doing the thing that fat cells can do, it's inflammation, is part of it. But they also discovered that it's able to down regulate the inflammatory process and up regulate the performance and activity of one of our major satiety and fat loss hormones, which is adiponectin. Alright, so not only is turmeric anti-inflammatory, it's also anti-obesity. It's just another reason that I'm a huge fan of the gold formula from Organifi. And if you want to check it out, go to organifi.com/model, that's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com/model. And guess what? You get 20% off. 20% off of their gold formula, their daily turmeric products as well. I travel with that, I travel with that bad boy, and all the other products they carry as well. It's such an incredible company, doing things the right way.

And so many people actually like to have the gold formula before bed because it also contains reishi. And according to the Journal of Pharmacology, Biochemistry, and Behavior, reishi is able to, number one, improve sleep latency, so you're able to fall asleep faster. They also found that it was able to increase overall sleep time and to increase the time spent in non-REM deep sleep and REM sleep as well. So reishi in that formula with the turmeric, which has the anti-inflammatory capacity, and it tastes great. You can have it like a tea or with a warm milk of your choice as well. It tastes great that way too. So definitely try the gold formula if you haven't done so already. And right now they've got the chocolate gold formula, and that's an added layer of antioxidants and incredible benefits with the chocolate. And for a limited time right now. It's that time of year again, they've got the pumpkin spice gold formula available over at Organifi.com/model. Alright, so head over there and check it out, and now let's get to the Apple podcast review of the week.

iTunes Review: Another five-star review titled "Logic and Reasoning" by JD Living Well, "My math brain loved this episode. How amazing to hear actual data and statistics surrounding COVID instead of all the mass hysteria we're getting from the media. Your information about hospital data is spot on. My respiratory therapist sister is finally back to work after being laid off for several months from a major research and trauma hospital. Who could imagine that during a pandemic? It's encouraging to hear solutions that we can use in our daily lives to be healthy and well rather than living paralyzed in fear. I love your ads as well. What a breath of fresh air to hear about alternatives to staying healthy instead of spending thousands being sick. I cannot thank you enough for this great information!"

Shawn Stevenson: Awesome, thank you so much for leaving that review over on Apple Podcast. And that episode that they're referring to is the one that we did with epidemiologist Dr. Alan Preston, so we'll put that for you in the show notes if you happen to miss it. But that just means so much, thank you so much for sharing your voice and sharing that story, the insight with your family member as well, and having that close proximity and touchpoint to this whole experience. We all need to talk about this and share our stories and connect, so thank you so much for leaving that review. And on that note, let's get to our special guest and topic of the day.

Today's guest is New York Times best-selling author, Drew Manning. And Drew catapulted to fame. And this was back when Jay Leno was running the Tonight Show, and Drew was on The Tonight Show, he was on all these major media because he did this crazy experiment that actually transformed the world. And he was a fit personal trainer, been fit his entire life, college football player. And he wanted to help his clients, like anybody would who has a big heart, but he kept hearing this story over and over again, when he would just be like, "If you just do what I say, just follow the plan. What's so hard about this?" Just in his mind, even thinking these thoughts. And they would say to him, he heard this so many times over and over again, "Drew, you just don't understand. You've been fit your whole life, you don't know what it's like."

And one day it clicked that he wanted to be able to put himself into other people's shoes in a way, not just theoretically, but to physically transform his health and his body. And so the inception of his Fit2Fat2Fit journey was going from a fit, healthy personal trainer to gaining 60 to 70 pounds over the course of just several months by eating foods he would have never been eating, and consumption in quantities that he heretofore would never have eaten as well. And stopped going for his consistent exercise routine to being sedentary like the majority of US citizens. And he transformed his body and gained all of this weight and documented the whole thing, but this was back early on, this is like nine or 10 years ago when we didn't have social media like this today, so he really documented the journey on his blog. But major media caught wind of it and followed his experience.

And from there, he decided to see what it was like and to demonstrate to walk hand in hand with people, to go from having gained 60 to 70 pounds to getting back to the weight that he started at, and the level of fitness that he started at. And he accomplished the same thing in the same amount of time, you know, the same amount of months that it took him to gain weight, he was able to lose the weight in that same amount of time, but he had no idea the mental and emotional strain that it would have on his life, his relationships, and his identity, to be able to go through that process. And he knows very clearly that when you choose to do that, it's one thing, but he knows that he can't replicate that for folks that are born into the situations that conspire or encourage being overweight and obese.

But he wanted to do his best to put himself in those shoes. And he's learned a lot, but even through that process, because that's what catapulted him to fame, but he's just done so much work over the years to cultivate empathy and to bring that as a term into the fitness culture that needs it more than ever, and compassion and understanding. And being able to put ourselves in other people's shoes so we can actually find out how to help and how to serve. So I admire him for that. And today he's going to share, he's taking this story and his journey to an entirely different level. So let's jump into this conversation with my good friend, Drew Manning.

Well, I'm going to start and make this a public question, man. How does it feel to be ridiculously handsome?

Drew Manning:That reminds me of Zoolander, ridiculously, ridiculously, really, really good looking. It's... I'm used to it now. Just kidding.

No, it's all good, man. I'm good. I should ask you that question.

Shawn Stevenson: Oh, come on man. Stop it, stop it.

Oh man. You know, I love... Certain people you just click with. You know what I'm saying? When we first met, I was just like, this dude's going to be my friend forever. Do we...

Drew Manning: Thank you, brother, thank you.

Shawn Stevenson: It's like one of those stepbrothers moments. Did we just become best friends?

Drew Manning: It was, man.

Shawn Stevenson: And so when you posted the Zoolander side by side, with the Ben Stiller side by side, I was like... I went and got my wife, I literally got up and went and showed her, and I was like, "Yep, this guy is going to be my best friend."

Drew Manning: Well, thank you, brother. I really appreciate that.

Shawn Stevenson: And grateful to have you on. It's been... You're one of the very few recurring guests that we've had on the show, just so insightful, such a good human being, and you've accomplished so much, man. And I want to talk to you first about, the world is very different than when we last talked. And so I just want to know what you've been up to since the shut downs have taken place, quarantine. How have you stayed in shape? And by the way, we're going to get into how he's not going to be in shape in a moment, but how have you been able to maintain what you've been doing with your fitness, with your mental health through all that's been going on?

Drew Manning: Man, so let's start from the beginning of 2020. It's been a crazy year. Ever since Kobe died, man, that's when this year kind of... It set the tone for me. That was, for me, the first time that I felt attached to someone like him, like an athlete like that, where I was devastated when he died. Hit me hard, and then from there, it's just been a snowball effect of just, "Okay, what more can we pile on in 2020?" It's been really hard mentally, emotionally, psychologically for me personally, but I think for a lot of people all over the world. And it's unprecedented times for sure.

So how have I been able to maintain or stay in shape? I'll be honest with you man, I had moments where the stress got to me. And here I am an influencer, all the tools in our tool belt of the mental and emotional side, the physical side, supplements, food. There was times where I'm like, "Man." I was like, "You know what, I'm going to have an extra glass of wine, or have a little bit extra dessert just because." And I caught myself doing that, and it was so interesting for me 'cause it helped me definitely relate to people out there, but also it's like I'm human too, man, and I have emotions, and sometimes I numb those emotions just like every single person out there does.

And... But then, luckily for me, having a fitness business, I was able to do a lot of live streaming, live... Instagram lives, Facebook lives, and I would purposely post that I'm doing a work-out tomorrow at 10 AM and asking people to join me, 'cause I knew once I pushed it, and once I put it out there on social media, I had to show up, even though inside, I did not want to work out, I knew I had to. The other thing that kept me going, Shawn, and maybe we can dive into this a little bit, is I made the decision to run 100 miles in under 24 hours.

Now, I know I attempted this last year, and people saw it. People saw me fail. Well, fail-ish, I got 80 miles done in 24 hours, which wasn't a failure, it definitely... Well, I was really proud of myself 'cause I've never once known I could do that until I read the book that David Goggins wrote, Can't Hurt Me. Really good book, by the way. To push me past those self-limiting beliefs. So I attempted it last year, didn't get the 100. This year I trained hardcore for it for seven months, man, I became a runner, and I hate running, I suck at running. I've never been good at running. Just short sprints, maybe like you, you know? But anything past a mile, it's uncharted territory for me, so I wanted to see if I could run 100 miles in 24 hours if I actually trained for it.

And so I took seven months out of my life, literally, to train for 100-mile race, and ended up doing it June 11th and 12th of this year, but posting about it, saying that I was going to do it, made me stay accountable to do that three-hour, four-hour runs on Saturdays and Sundays, even though I didn't want to, because I knew I was going to show up on June 11th and attempt my 100 miler, which I was able to do.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, man, first of all, that's just... Congratulations isn't enough sometimes. You know? It's just like there's something deeper. For you to accomplish something like that, and to come from the experience that you've had prior too, just like, I suck at running, and I remember you told me this a while the first time.

Drew Manning: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: And you wanted to do something that you suck at and really challenge yourself and think differently and train differently and put yourself into the discomfort. That's one of the things that I've known about you from early on, is that for whatever reason, Drew has the cojones to put himself in uncomfortable situations. And so for you to accomplish that, man, like 100 miles in 24 hours...

Drew Manning: Yeah

Shawn Stevenson: Bro, it's just... It's mind-blowing, mind-blowing.

Drew Manning: And that's the thing, is we all have these self-limiting beliefs, and the thing that I learned from David Goggins is, trying to train your brain to become comfortable with being uncomfortable, right, and that's the whole idea behind this whole thing. And for me, that was 100 miles. For someone out there listening, it could be one mile, it could be a 5k, it could be eating vegetables for 30 days straight. It's doing these hard things that you really don't think maybe is possible for you, but then what if? What if you just try one of these things that's out of your comfort zone and watch your body and mind adapt to it, and maybe you can pull something off that seems impossible for you. Because 100 miles for me was impossible.

I'm like, I have never even run a marathon or a half marathon. Why do I think I can run 100 miles? I don't know, I just felt like, why not test the limits? And 100 miles seemed like a big enough number to be like, alright, that's pretty respectable. And I did it. Will I ever run again? Probably not, because I still hate it. But to say that I did it, that's the lesson that I learned to hopefully pass on to other people is, find out what your 100 miles is, and get out there and do it and get comfortable with being uncomfortable, and who knows what you can accomplish.

Shawn Stevenson: Absolutely, man, that's so powerful. And finding out what your 100 mile is. So everybody could be something different, this could be something in business, this could be something in your relationship, this could be something in fitness. I was just talking with my oldest son, Jorden, the other day, and he... Right now, he's got a couple of clients that he's training as a personal trainer.

Drew Manning: Oh, cool.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, he's creating programs, and he's just doing... He loves this, he loves fitness. It's his thing. And I was talking to him about some of the structure mentally with working with clients, because I worked in the gym for, I don't know, maybe almost 10 years.

Drew Manning: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: And I came to some revelations very early on. Number one: People are coming to you, yes, for advice and expertise, but the majority of people, their biggest benefit that they're getting from you is accountability. And there's a minority of people who would take the expertise that you give them and continue on without you, and I wanted to be... I wanted people to hire me to be able to fire me when it came to the gym, but so often it just didn't manifest that way, no matter what I would do. I'd see people five years later, they'd be like, "Shawn, I was in the best shape of my life when I was with you, I need you." I say, "No, you need yourself, getaway." You know? "I love you, but you know." But the thing is, it's understanding that we all need accountability, we all need support, and there's different dynamics to what that looks like, but we have to work with our own psychology, and sometimes it's even within yourself, the accountability you create. But you're bringing up an important point of being able to utilize community proactively, especially during a time when we're so separate, to hold you accountable. So could you talk a little bit more about that?

Drew Manning: Yeah, and I learned this from my first journey doing Fit2Fat2Fit back in 2011, which we've talked about on the podcast before, where I intentionally gained 75 pounds in six months. That was my first time being overweight in my life. I was humbled, I realized just how wrong I was in my approach to fitness and health and helping people, and I learned so many valuable lessons from that experience. One being how much of transformation is mental and emotional. You could give someone the best meal plans, the best workouts, the best supplements, and none of that matters unless that person knows eventually how to overcome those emotional challenges. And a trainer, that's exactly what they are. They're paying you to keep them accountable. Right? They can get meal plans and work-outs from other places, but they are paying you to literally say, "Hey, I have this goal. I need you to push me to finish this workout and keep me accountable in the gym, in the kitchen, and all that stuff."

And really that's what it comes down to for anybody out there looking to make a transformation, whether it's a weight loss transformation, a physical transformation, any other transformation, anyone will tell you, having a coach, a mentor, and what that person does is just an accountability partner to keep you accountable to whatever the goals that you want to achieve. And that's what I learned from Fit2Fat2Fit back in 2011, was the importance of accountability and a support system, because transformation is so mental and emotional, more so than physical. And that's why you have to have someone on your side giving you a kick in the butt every once in a while when you need it, right. Everyone needs a kick in the butt, some tough love, but the empathy as well.

And letting that person know that they're worth it, to continue to fight for their goals. And that's what, I think, a lot of people struggle with self-worth and then they self-sabotage, 'cause they don't think they're worth it. They don't think they're worthy to achieve those goals, because that negative mindset tells them... That negative self-talk tells them, "See, told you you’re going to mess up. I told you you’re were going to go back to your old ways." And we keep proving that to ourselves over and over again, to the point where we don't ever feel like we can achieve something in life, because we've done that to ourselves over and over again, where we self-sabotage and we say, "See? Told you, I knew you'd go back to that old mindset." And that happens over and over again.

And that's the power of an accountability partner, or a coach, or a trainer, to keep you accountable along the way. Now you can't always have someone there with you like you were mentioning, so eventually we have to learn how to develop that ourselves, and that's where self-awareness comes in. And self-awareness makes you the observer of your thoughts, rather than you becoming your thoughts. So, now when that negative self-talk is coming, that's not you, that's not your highest self. You can observe that thought coming into your mind, and saying, "Okay, here comes the negative self-talk. I know that's my ego telling me what I am, but I can choose to either detach myself from that and just observe what's going on, and the emotions that are coming up." And then, from there, you can make a thoughtful response, instead of a reaction, like some people do. So, hopefully, that makes sense.

Shawn Stevenson: Man, that was so profound. And this is the thing that makes a person like yourself so successful and makes such an impact. You're saying the thing that... It's so funny, we don't talk about this enough...

Drew Manning: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: That all change really is an inside game. You know? It's the mental and emotional... Because we just want the physical thing, "Just tell me what to do!"

Just give me push-ups and burpees, let's go! But for you to do the push-ups and burpees, it's who you see yourself as. Are you the type of person who does these things consistently? We eat the way that we believe ourselves to be, or we eat in a way that reflects our perception of ourselves.

Drew Manning: Yes.

Shawn Stevenson: Like, I eat this way, there's a certain thought process, is like there's certain things that I just don't eat, there's a certain way that I eat, there's a certain quality of foods that I look for because that's who I am. And we're not doing that inner work, we're just like, "Just give me this cookie-cutter diet program, give me this cookie-cutter workout," and wonder why we keep failing. And your whole work is like empathy, understanding, compassion, helping people to change from the inside out, because the outside stuff becomes easier, once you get the mental and emotional piece right.

Drew Manning: Amen. Amen. And that's the whole concept of a complete transformation, is it's not just a physical transformation. And I think people's perception of what success looks like in health and fitness is a physical transformation. Like, "Hey, once I get this body, then all my problems are going to go away, then I'll be skinny, people will love me in society, no one's going to treat me wrong anymore, I'll treat myself right." And we think that's what's going to happen. But I promise you, we both know people that have 5% body fat and are still miserable with themselves, and still hate themselves, and still think they're not good enough. So, that's not what it is, that's not what you... It's not what you think it is. It's about learning to be fulfilled now, when things are imperfect when you might not have the perfect body, but you can still be fulfilled and full of gratitude, while you're continuing to work on a better version of yourself. And that's what I feel is what needs to shift in this industry, is what success looks like to people. We can shift our perception. It's not about the results. I promise you it's not about the results.

It's cool to have goals to get those results, but what happens is, people, they don't like the process of dieting and exercising, 'cause they see it as miserable, but they're like, "Okay, I'll put up with this for 30, 60, 90 days, if I get these results." If I don't get these results, why am I sacrificing so much? Why am I suffering for nothing, right? And so it's all about the results, and then even if they get the results, the results aren't as fulfilling as they thought it would be, and there's still something missing in their life. And that's where it's about falling in love with the process, operating out of a place of self-love versus self-hate. And when you love yourself, you treat yourself kindly. Like, "Hey, it feels good to eat this healthy food, 'cause it feels good to my body and it feels good to move my body, instead of punishing myself in the gym saying, "You better lose this fat, or else." Or you're hungry, you keep starving yourself until you get this body, and that's the perception, I think, that needs to be shifted in the fitness industry, and that's what I'm trying to do, since Fit2Fat2Fit, I learned those lessons. And then going through my rock bottom moment after my divorce, and all the personal development I've done, and that's what leads me to... Here we are today, in 2020, with another crazy idea to hopefully change the game.

Shawn Stevenson: Ah, segue alert. Segway alert. Man, listen, listen. This, right now, is such an already crazy time, and when I got the message from you, and the first thing I said, I called you and I was like, "Dude, is it too late to talk you out of this?" And but then, when you talk with me about it, I understood the different dynamics of why this could be very, very powerful and remarkable right now. Number one, because of your growth over these past few years. Number two, another reasoning that people hold up is like, "I can't change my body at this point, once I reach a certain age." But man, you're about to do Fit2Fat2Fit again. Right now, Drew Manning, 40-year-old, father of two, and dude... So, first of all...

Drew Manning: Yes.

Shawn Stevenson: Just to give a summation, when you did the original Fit2Fat2Fit, how long ago was that? Take us through a brief summation of the process, and then tell us why the hell you're doing it again right now, in 2020?

Drew Manning: Yeah, so back in 2011, I was 31 years old. I'd never been overweight a day in my life, and I put on 75 pounds of pure fat in six months. You know, stopped exercising, ate a standard American diet, lots of cinnamon toast crunch, and Mountain Dew, and zingers, and all of that delicious processed food that a lot of us grew up within the '70s and '80s and then got back to fit and that's kind of... I learned a lot of valuable lessons, was humbled. And that's how I made a name for myself, 'cause it definitely helped me to be more empathetic towards those that struggle, and it gave me a better understanding. But that was almost 10 years ago, and social media back then wasn't what it is today. I know very few people, literally, today, that actually followed along that journey as it was happening. A lot of people heard about afterward, like you did. You heard about it afterward, a lot of people heard about it afterward, but no one was really able to follow along as it was happening, because social media wasn't really what it is. There was no live streaming, there was Facebook, and that's pretty much it. There's no Instagram.

So here we are today, in 2020. It's been a crazy year like we talked about. Why I would ever do this again? One, I've already learned my lessons from it. I already learned what I needed to learn. So why would I ever do this again? I feel like 2020 has been such a divisive year. There's been so much hate and anger and fear and worry, and everything that's going on in the world, I just see a lot of division, and I felt like this was the perfect opportunity to do it, even in a time of chaos, because of my message of empathy. I didn't think about this until now. You see the shirt that I'm wearing, Mr. Rogers. Empathy, for me, this is what this shirt shows, is empathy. And empathy, I feel, is something that can change the world, let alone the fitness industry. Because the fitness industry, like you said, it's all about macros, calories, weight loss, fat loss, and people are chasing after this perfect body, when in reality, it's more than that.

When it comes to our health, it's more than just having the perfect body. And I feel like people who live in larger bodies, who are obese, are judged unfairly and labeled as lazy or less than, and people think it's so easy, "Just eat less and work out. What's wrong with you?" Like, "Just be disciplined, have the will power, like I have." People think that it's so easy. And so, people in society that are in larger bodies, are looked down upon. And I feel like empathy, truly understanding someone without trying to correct them, or judge them, or critique them, is what empathy is for me. It's listening to understand someone truly where they're coming from, instead of labeling them 'cause you saw a social media post, or because you saw them wearing a mask or not wearing a mask, or taking one chapter of their life and judging them based off that chapter.

I feel like empathy can be a game-changer. And so, my message is one of empathy for those that struggle with body image and transformation. And I feel like empathy can be a game-changer in the fitness industry, but it can also be a game-changer in the world in general. And so then I felt... I feel like this is the perfect time for that. Number two, obviously, I'm getting older. I'm 40 this year, turned 40 on December 27th. And things change, metabolism changes, hormones change, and there have been struggles for me now, versus back when I was 31. Things I could get away with back then that I don't... Can't get away with really anymore. And I feel like a lot of people can relate to that.

I want to show people that it's still possible to be fit and have health after 40. And so that's the second reason I'm doing it. And like I said, back in 2011, no one really saw what was happening as it was happening. So in 2020, all eyes are on every single social media platform: Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, LinkedIn, you name it. People can see it as it's happening. I feel like I can make more of an impact, be more... Spreading positivity and the importance of empathy in this industry, and in the world in general. And so those were the two main reasons why I felt now was the time to do this again, as a 40-year-old, and to push forward my message of empathy in an industry that, I think, lacks it.

Shawn Stevenson: Yes, man. So, take us through the process. So, what's going down? This is, I believe, the first big podcast you're on, sharing this.

Drew Manning: Yes.

Shawn Stevenson: So, take us through the process. How much weight are you going to gain? How are you going to gain this weight? Oh my gosh! Just take us through the process.

Drew Manning: Sure. So this time is going to be different. August 27th is the start date, so this will probably air after that, so just go ahead and look at my old footage or previous post. But August 27th is the start date, through December 27th, which is my birthday. And this time around, it's going to be different. One, I have a doctor monitoring me throughout the journey. So we just did blood work, we went over my baseline blood work results, just recently. So that will be an important factor of this journey, is to show people what happens to the inside of our body, to our health, as we live an unhealthy lifestyle. So my hope is to educate people as the journey happens.

And yes, I will be eating processed food. But one of the things I want to do this time around, which is I think kind of controversial but interesting and educational, is I'm going to be exposing four popular fad diets out there. One is keto, which, you know, I'm a big fan of the ketogenic diet, a paleo, vegan and vegetarian, and showing people the pitfalls and mistakes that people make when they do these diets. When people think, "Hey, I'm vegan, therefore, I should lose weight and have better health." But there's an unhealthy way to do every single one of these diets that I mentioned, and I see it all the time. So my hope is to expose it, and actually gain weight on these diets, during my Fit2Fat phase. But then, the cool thing is... And then also, I'll be doing blood work before and after, by the way. My doctor is going to do blood work before each segment, and then after each segment or each diet that I'm doing. Does that make sense?

Shawn Stevenson: So how long with the Fit2Fat phase be?

Drew Manning: It's going to be four months total. And I think...

Shawn Stevenson: Four months total?

Drew Manning: And my guess is 60 pounds gained in four months. That's my... We'll see... My estimate. We'll see. We'll see.

Shawn Stevenson: Oh my God. Oh my God.

Drew Manning: That's right...

Shawn Stevenson: So, and I love this... I love this perception, though, of like, "We're going to take these popular diets and we're going to expose their pitfalls. Not just theoretically, but I'm going to eat a junk food vegan diet." 'Cause people like, "I'm vegan. And yet, I still can't get my health together," or, "I'm doing the keto diet, but... "You know, it's just like...

Drew Manning: Gaining weight.

Shawn Stevenson: "I'm a freaking beer-bonging, bacon-cheeseburgers with like Craft American slices." You know what I mean?

Drew Manning: Yes.

Shawn Stevenson: So, I love that dynamic. So, four months, 60 pounds around, that's going to be the goal.

Drew Manning: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: And you're going to be tracking everything, now we got social media, 'cause I think back in the days, you were just doing it on your blog. Is that right?

Drew Manning: Yeah, I was just doing it on my blog. Yup. Exactly. And then also, the other thing is I'll have a CGM device monitoring my glucose levels every single day of the journey, my ketone levels. I'll be doing body fat percentage, I'll be doing different fitness tests throughout to show my heart rate variability. I'll be tracking my sleep on my WHOOP app. All kinds of data I'll be tracking, and people can follow along. And then come January 4th, 2021, that first Monday of the new year, everyone's going to want to be done with 2020, am I right? Everyone's going to want to start over, New Year, new you, new mindset kind of thing. Let's do this journey together, I'll hold your hand every step of the way.

You, me, everyone from around the world, we can do this journey together as a team, as a community, so I'm going to be providing all my exact meal plans, detailed meal plans, recipes, workouts, and you can follow along with me every single step of the way. And I'm going to be revisiting those diets that we mentioned, and educate people on how to do them the right way, the healthy way. And I'll lose weight on them, I'll do my blood work before and after, and to show you that different things work for different people, right? So, maybe my body does better on keto versus paleo or vegan, but maybe not. Maybe the blood work will show different.

And I want to provide people with as many tools as possible for their tool belt on this journey of health, 'cause what works for one person might not work for everyone else. I know everyone probably listens to your podcast, Shawn, is like, "Oh, Shawn takes this supplement or that supplement. I'm going to take that and get his body." But it doesn't always happen that way, so it's good to discover and explore to find what works best for you. So, for me, at the end of the day, man, I think this is going to be a very powerful movement, it's going to be very... Hopefully, inspiring, and motivating to people out there.

And that's why, even though it's crazy and it's risky, it... And it's totally backward than what you normally see, I feel like I'm being called to do it, man, to be totally honest with you, because I see how it can make an impact, especially during these times. I feel like it's crazy enough to get people's attention, but then, hopefully, from there, people consume my content, my messaging, understand that it's about empathy. They understand that it's more so about the mental and emotional side, but then for all the sciencey people out there, there's going to be the sciencey data that they can track, as well. So I feel like there's going to be something for everyone on this Fit2Fat2FORTY journey.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah man, it's so powerful. And I... Truly, number one, I wouldn't do it. Number two... I admire the fact, because you know this as much as I do, that our greatest opportunity and the thing that's overlooked the most right now, as far as how do we, as a society, remain healthy and defend ourselves from communicable diseases.

Drew Manning: Yes.

Shawn Stevenson: From the next virus, and the next virus, and the next virus, because they're coming.

Drew Manning: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: This is just how nature works, is having healthy, sovereign, fit, human beings. Having healthy citizens is our number one defense, but it's not being talked about. And this is a way to do it. You're going to get yourself ridiculously unhealthy. Again, it pains me to say, and then people can walk with you, and travel with you, and join you along the way of how do we get from there with all the excuses that we have.

Drew Manning: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: Because that's all I've been hearing from... Even a lot of our colleagues, excuses of what we can't do.

Drew Manning: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: You've got another layer, like, "Okay, I'm 40 and up now."

Drew Manning: Yep.

Shawn Stevenson: So you've got that layer. I've got... I've got all these different diets now that are popular, and they have their benefits, and they also have their downsides. And it depends on the person, and also the way that you do each of those has tremendous opportunity or downsides. And so exposing and sharing those things, for people who have questions, who just take things at face value, without seeing what can happen, so there's so many layers of yes to this. So, I'm going to give my endorsement, you know? But one of the things that I...

Drew Manning: Are you going to do a food challenge with me?

Shawn Stevenson: What is that?

Drew Manning: We'll do like a... Let's see, what's your jam? Maybe like a sugary cereal food challenge, virtual food challenge, where you eat, I eat, see who eats more of the cinnamon toast crunch. That's a food challenge.

Shawn Stevenson: Okay, but I'll just make sure that I clear my calendar for the rest of the day because I'll definitely go into a sugar coma.

Drew Manning: Exactly.

Shawn Stevenson: But yes, I'll do... I'll jump on the cereal. I'll jump into the cereal challenge. One of the things that I'd asked you about was... And this is the thing that, if I remember correctly, you shared was the most surprising thing to you. It wasn't the physical changes, it was how you felt mentally and emotionally, and how you were judging yourself, and noticing how people were judging you when you gained all that weight and took the time to do that, and your motivation to do things. Because you were just a very motivated person...

Drew Manning: Yeah.

Shawn Stevenson: You love working out, and all of a sudden, all of that drive started to go away, and you having a healthy new relationship, pretty fresh relationship, awesome relationship, I was wondering like, did she sign off on this? Did she say this is going to be okay?

Drew Manning: I joke around that I made my girlfriend, Julie, sign a contract that she couldn't break up with me during the journey, 'cause that wouldn't be fair. But I didn't make her sign a contract. She's onboard, man. That's the interesting thing, is she's on board with this, she's not going to do it with me, for sure, she's actually... She's actually doing a Whole30 in September, which is the complete opposite of what I'm doing. But she is there to support me throughout this journey. I told her it's going to be hard, I told her I'm going to be cranky, I'm going to have low energy. And let's be honest, low libido from eating this way. So I said, "Hey, I promise I'll make it up to you after, once I get back to fit again." But no, she's totally on board with this.

And it's going to be interesting with that difference in the journey of having... Last time I was married, I had two little babies. This time around, my daughters are 9 and 11, I have a girlfriend now, different family dynamics. Plus I'm also more... I'm a different person, I'm a different version of myself now. Back when I was 31, I was married, I was very religious, very naive to a lot of things. Now, I feel like I'm more self-aware. I have more tools in my tool belt to help me on the mental and emotional side. So yes, I'm going to become overweight again, but I feel like I'm not as attached or as obsessed as I used to be.

So it'll be interesting this time around to see how it affects me mentally and emotionally. Like when I go out in public this time, am I going to go up to strangers and explain to them that I'm not really overweight, or will I be more at peace with it this time around? 'Cause last time I felt like I was totally self-conscious. Like I would go up to strangers and say, "Hey, I'm not really overweight. This is just an experiment. Go to this website. Here's my before picture." I wanted to explain to people so badly that I was not this overweight person 'cause my identity was based on my body image. And now that I don't feel attached to that, it'll be interesting to see how it affects me on the mental and emotional side this time around.

Shawn Stevenson: Hmm, man, that's powerful, man. And I'm glad that you brought this up and talked about this in our conversation of how we feel the foods that we eat, the way that we treat our bodies affects how we interact in our relationships, and it is probably the most visceral and real thing. I love my wife so much, and I know she loves me so much, but if one of us hasn't eaten in a while, and maybe we've worked out, it's like your best friend becomes your frenemy. You know what I mean?

Drew Manning: Yes.

Shawn Stevenson: And that's with doing the work, loving somebody deeply. Just imagine how we treat other people as well. So I know you didn't really have her sign the fat prenup, but if you had had her sign it, I wouldn't be like, "It's out of bounds." So, Drew, can you let everybody know where they can connect with you and follow along, because this is going to be coming out right around the time you start, so we're going to express this to get this out for everybody, and just let everybody know where they can connect with you.

Drew Manning: For sure. So fit2fat2FORTY.com is the website that you can track my journey on, but if you just follow me on my social media handles at Fit2Fat2Fit as well, you'll be updated every single day. Lots of live streaming, lots of content, weekly weigh-ins, weekly food challenges, doctors’ visits, little performance measurements to show how my body's changing, how my mind's changing. So yeah, fit2fat2FORTY.com.

Shawn Stevenson: Perfect, my man, thank you so much for coming to hang out with me. Shout out to your shirt. Hopefully everybody's who's watching on YouTube sees the iconic Mr. Rogers. And he was a police officer or a postman?

Drew Manning: He was a police officer that... He invited... He was part of the show, and so he invited him to... You know, it's interesting, a lot of people don't know the story. He invited him to put his feet in the swimming pool, 'cause at the time it was illegal for blacks and whites to swim in the same swimming pool, and so Mr. Rogers stood up to that and said, "Okay, I'm going to bring him on as my friend, as my neighbor. We're going to sit in that little kiddie pool with our feet in. That's not illegal." And so that's what this picture represents, and that's why it's... Especially during these times, man, is you got to be brave during times of controversy like this, and I love what he stood up for.

Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, man, thank you so much, brother. I love what you stand for as well.

Drew Manning: Thank you so much.

Shawn Stevenson: And being inclusive, bringing people together, challenging yourself, and giving us a model of what that looks like to push the boundaries. So I appreciate you, brother, and I will talk to you real soon.

Drew Manning: Thanks, Shawn. Appreciate it. Talk to you soon.

Shawn Stevenson: And everybody, thank you so much for hanging out with me today as well. Hope you got a lot of value out of this episode. And again, this is about thinking differently, this is about challenging ourselves, this is about finding new and creative and dynamic ways to connect, to hold each other accountable, and to develop more empathy and compassion when we need it more than ever.

And one of the things that really resonated with me, and with Drew's message, and something I've been teaching for the near two decades that I've been in this space as well, is a huge revelation that hit, is that we cannot hate ourselves into having the body and the health that we want, and that's what so often we try to do. We try to push ourselves, we try to beat ourselves into submission, into change. And true, sustainable, long-lasting change and transformation does not come from a place of trying to manipulate and hate ourselves into health and wellness. It has to be a different pathway. We can absolutely beat ourselves into a pulp and beat ourselves into submission for some temporary changes and get some results, but to sustain it and to enjoy the process along the way, it has to be a different inroads, and I believe that that inroads is love.

I believe that inroads is patience and compassion, and I believe that inroads is education as well. That's why I do this show, that's why the Model Health Show was created. To help us to feel empowered and to know that we don't have to accomplish everything at once, and we can take things step by step and master certain levels, and then add in the new piece. Whereas, we've been programmed with this idea and we continue to say these things of like overnight success. There's no such thing as that. There's no such thing as an overnight success. It's really these step-by-step processes and systems, and becoming the type of person that can have and maintain, sustain those results that we get.

And so today, more than ever, it's having that directive, that inner guidance system pointing ourselves back inward, and really working on changing our inner world so that it can be reflected in our outer world. All change is truly an inside job, so that's where we need to start. And all the tools are there. There's so many different tools available, so many different diet programs, fitness programs, meditation programs. We can list those for days, but truly it's becoming the type of person who can interact or take part in any of those things and it become a part of our lives and who we are.

Because so often we want change, but we are trying to bring our old self to the new party. We're trying to bring our old self, our old mindset, our old way of being, our old habits to the new party, and that old self just doesn't fit in at this particular party we're trying to be at, alright. Not saying that this party is better or... It's just different. Whatever it is that you want to accomplish, you have to become someone else, you have to become a different version of yourself, and that could be scary, it could be challenging, but it's true. And this is a thing that nobody wants to tell you.

And here's the greatest part of it all, though, is that that person that you become, all the results, all the wonderful things, the successes that you aspire towards, it starts to become magnetic, because health isn't something that you chase after, health is something that you attract to yourself by the person that you become. And so that's what this is about, it's doing the inner work necessary. We've got incredible tools for you, we've got incredible resources, but it's really working on yourself to become the best version of you and aspiring towards that each and every day.

So again, I hope you got a lot of value out of this episode. And again, make sure, again, we provide over and over and over resources to take advantage of, because there's so many barriers of entry, it seems like, in our world today, to having the fitness and the health that we want, because of the costs involved, because of the access. And now, so many things have shifted to online access and online shopping, online programs, we need to leverage these things in a healthy way. And for years now, I've been talking about this for years. I was the first person to talk about this on a podcast. There are companies who are taking on the big brands to make health affordable, to make getting access to the highest quality foods available for everybody.

And that company that's taking the products that you would find at Whole Foods or other health food stores, they come at a premium, we know that. The nickname for Whole Foods is Whole Paycheck, alright? We know this. I've been there, literally, at the cash register at Whole Foods many years ago, and they've rung up my stuff, and I got my card, and I'm like crossing my fingers, crossing my toes, "I hope that this swipe goes through." But I was investing in my health, and I'm just hoping that I could find a way to make it happen. And I'm so grateful. I actually never shared this before, but I'm thinking about all the times that I saw people there at Whole Foods, and I went up to the register, and I paid for their groceries. I saw that they got lists from their trainer, or something they saw on a television show, and they're trying these new things. Because I would frequent my local Whole Foods, it's right by my office. So if I saw somebody new there, so many times I would buy their groceries for them. So I want to get us to that place, where we can extend a hand to help the people. Man, I wish somebody would have bought me groceries one of those times, you know? But it still, it's an investment.

But now, we can get those same products for 25%-50% off the retail price, through Thrive Market, shipped directly to your door. So, the toothpaste that I was buying from Whole Foods, 25%-50% off. The coconut oil, the chia seeds, the snacks for the kids, all those things we get from Thrive Market. Home cleaning products, non-toxic, personal care products, we get from Thrive Market, 25%-50% off, and you get access to that as well. Just go to thrivemarket.com/modelhealth. That's thrivemarket.com/modelhealth. And number one, you want to make sure that you get the Thrive Market membership, because right now, when you purchase a membership to Thrive Market, you get a free gift. It's upwards of like 20-25 dollar value free gift, and they've got different ones to choose from, depending on when you take action.

But this is right now, available right now, so you want to do this right now. Get your membership, and it's just going to continue to pay you back over and over and over again. We save hundreds of dollars every year by shopping through Thrive Market, alright? So you get a free gift in addition to the 25%-50% off that you're already going to be getting, free gift right now, so go to thrivemarket.com/modelhealth. They're also giving back. They're giving... Whenever you get a membership, they're making it available... A free membership to somebody in need, a family in need, a veteran, a teacher. They've been doing this since the onset. This is why I was the first podcast to share Thrive Market, and here we are, years later, and I just... I love them. I love companies that stand for doing good, that stand for something bigger.

At first, I was like, "How are you guys even making revenue? You're giving so much away." But they found a way to create a business model that's sustainable, where they can continue to pay it forward, because the ultimate mission is to make health and wellness accessible to every single citizen. But again, it starts with us. These things are available, we just have to take advantage. And the same thing, I've got incredible thought leaders, incredible people in this space to follow, to learn from, and Drew Manning is one of those people. He's been a really good friend of mine for so many years, one of my favorite human beings. It's like, literally, if we don't see each other for a year, as soon as we get together, it's like we've been hanging out every day. We've got such a connection, he's such a good person, and the impact that he's been making in the world for all these years as well is just profound. So, definitely pop over, check out his journey, join the movement. He's doing it again! Fit2Fat2Fit.

And again, I hope you got a lot of value out of this episode. We've got some fire coming your way very soon, so make sure to stay tuned. Take care, have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon.

And for more, after the show, make sure to head over to themodelhealthshow.com. That's where you can find all of the show notes, you could find transcriptions, videos for each episode. And if you got a comment, you can leave me a comment there as well. And please make sure to head over to iTunes and leave us a rating to let everybody know that the show is awesome, and I appreciate that so much. And take care, I promise to keep giving you more powerful, empowering, great content to help you transform your life. Thanks for tuning in.