SHAWN STEVENSON: Welcome to the Model Health Show, this is fitness and nutrition expert, Shawn Stevenson and I'm so grateful for you tuning in with me today. What if you could absorb the minds of some of the society’s greatest champions. And use their secrets in your own life. I was just taking my youngest son, Braden to an AAU Basketball tournament. And being in LA, this AAU tournaments are serious business. Alright, now, here is what’s interesting is that my son, Braden has been playing basketball for just about 6months and he’s playing against kids that’s been playing for years. And he’s only 11! Alright, so we’ve shifted into a culture that likes to specialize in sports for our kids. Whereas a lot of the greatest athletes of all times that we admire are very diverse in what they were doing.

When Koby Bryant asked Michael Jordan what he was doing at the age of 12 and when Koby was working on his basketball skills, and trying to offer some advice toa friend of his with a young kid. He asked Michael Jordan what he was training and Michael Jordan said I was playing baseball. Right, his mind wasn’t even there yet. And this speaks to again having those diverse inputs. And there’s nothing wrong with specializing of course, but regardless of what we want to do. We want to be able to extract the mindset, the tactics, the tools, from some of the best to do it. Let’s do it to the highest degree possible.

And so, on the drive down from Los Angeles to Anaheim is about an hour drive, depending on traffic, it's LA, so you never... In the words of Forest Gump, you never know what you're going to get. So, on the drive down, I popped on an interview with Koby Bryant, and what was so cool is that I could see my son was riveted, and it's because he had a tie, not just because... Koby, one of the greatest to ever do it. It's because for years, my son Braden was listening to Koby podcast called the pennies, and essentially it was this fun story-based kids show that was put into this podcast format using voice actors, and we would listen to this on our drives to... And from soccer practice and baseball practice, different things, back when we lived in the St. Louis Missouri, we listen to it all the time. And since moving out to LA, he's done a lot more than driving with his mother, and he's growing of course, and his palette of mental food has expanded, so he might pop on some Tony Robins form, we might Poplar Thomas, both have been on The Model Health Show of course.

And he really had a resonance in listening to the insights from Koby Bryant, especially hearing the story when Koby was just a kid somewhere in the ballpark of 12-13 years old and going to a specialized camp and not scoring a single point over the course of this camp/tournament when he was a kid, and what that did to him mentally and also his anchor moment at that time was, Yes, what can I do to get better? But him hearing from his father that regardless of the outcome of how he plays, regardless of how many points, he's going to have a perfect score when it comes to having a love from his father.

And so that connective tissue happened for us right there because I didn't care about the outcome of the tournament, I care about my little boy, and of course I want him to have a good time to be able to express himself and to compete, and all the things and also to overcome challenges, and I thought about, what can I provide for everyone to get some more insight into the mind of Koby Bryant now, obviously, we lost Koby a couple of years ago, but one of the people that was a true lynch pin in Koby’s life, somebody who helped to elevate him to hire in higher levels was his trainer, his personal trainer for fitness, but also his mindset.

And I'm talking about the one and only Tim Grover. Now, my son, Braden, has had the opportunity to meet him. Tim came over to our house and hang out for a bit, but at the time, Braden wasn't playing basketball yet, my son Braden wasn’t playing yet, and so he knew that this was Cool, called be Michael Jordan, all this stuff, but he really didn't get it. Now that he's in the game, is studying the game, he understands the value of being able to learn from somebody like Tim Grover. Now, Tim Grover was actually Michael Jordan's personal trainer as well as a matter of fact, Tim's first professional client was Michael Jordan. What? Who?  How's that? Even a thing?

It's incredible story. But what's so amazing about this is that when Tim came into Michael Jordan's life, you could see this nearly instant transformation from season to season as Michael Jordan became physically stronger to be able to endure the real physical game that was that of the late 80s, 90s and that kind of transition. And so being able to learn from him is priceless because of, yeah, we've got the technical stuff when it comes to training, but it's really first and foremost, the mindset because the body follows the mind, and so what if you can extract the mind of champions, learn what they have learned. Know what they know. That's what this episode is all about. I'm going to share with you some of the juiciest insights from conversations that I've had with Tim Grover. And I'm telling you, these insights once applied into our own lives, the success that comes from that, the results that come from that, the transformation that comes from that is priceless.

So, I'm really, really excited to share this. And again, this was inspired by a drive down with my kid, and if you've got kids, you know this experience, that car ride can be some of the best moments of our lives, and also, of course, it could be a time of some struggle points and some therapy sessions or just times of celebration and joy, but either way, that priceless time, it was just me and my son.

My wife was out of town, she was at the mom Prince Ali, shout out to her friend Lisa that she went with, but she was out of town, so I was just me and me and my little guy. So, this inspired this home today and listening back into these conversations and being able to put them together for you inspired me all over again. So, I'm really, really excited to share that. Now, one of the things in my son's nutrition regimen, because right now, especially when he's playing these tournaments, sometimes they can have four games, oftentimes, four games in a single weekend, we need to really focus on recovery throughout the week, but especially the day of... And one of the staples and his nutrition regimen, especially for recovery, is Organifi’s red juice, and this is because when the Hallmark ingredients is beat, a study published in the Journal of Applied Physiology showed that drinking beet juice boost stamina up to 16% during exercise and training, the participants even experienced less muscle damage and less fatigue after training, how helpful can that be... Yes, for our kids.

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ITUNES REVIEW: Another five star review titled “If Shawn says do it! I do it!” by Stonie "I tell everyone about this show and about Shawn. I love the products that he supports and have incorporated several into my daily routine as well as sold them in my studio. Literally, if Shawn says you should buy this, listen to that. Or read this, I do it. Such a wealth of information described in an easy to understand way."

SHAWN STEVENSON: Awesome! That’s what the mission is and I appreciate that so much. Thank you so much for that acknowledgement and if you’ve yet to do so. Please pop over to Apple Podcast and leave a review for The Model Health Show. And on that note, let’s get to this special compilation of conversations with the one and only Tim Grover. Tim Grover has been the high performance trainer of Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, and many, many other sports superstars. But he’s also been a high performance coach and trainer to some of the greatest thinkers and high performing CEOs. And people in a wide variety of industries. If somebody’s looking to optimize their mind and their performance and their business, they turn to Tim Grover. Now, Time is also a multi time best-selling author and just a huge, huge wealth of knowledge and such a gift to be able to learn from him directly. So in this first segment, you’re going to be hearing from Tim and he’s going to be talking about living the life we are meant to live vs living a life that’s dictated by others. He’s also going to share the truth about our instincts and a lot more. Check out this incredible segment from the one and only Tim Grover. What does that mean for you? What does it mean to be relentless?

TIM GROVER: Shawn, how many people do you know out there that are living somebody else's life?

Shawn Stevenson:  A lot. A lot.

Tim Grover:  A lot, so at some point - I always say this - things happen. We all have struggles, you know? You never know what the next individual is going through.

Everybody in life is going through something that you know nothing about. You know nothing about.

So usually when that happens is somebody else comes in, and they snatch your identity. Either you gave it to that person or somebody took it, so now you start to live their life.

They set up real estate in your head. They got you thinking the way they want you thinking. You need to go back and take your identity back from that individual, or the person or individual that either took it or you gave it to them.

Once you realize who you really are, and that's the whole premise about 'Relentless,' and we talked about this.

Relentless doesn't tell you what to do. It gives you permission to be who you really are. We're all born to be competitive. None of us are born here just to be average.

We all have the ability to do more. We have the ability to get to the level that we want. Physically we all have limitations, but the mind is- it's limitless in knowledge that you can obtain, and that you have access to become that individual that you're meant to be on this planet.

But then you start to live the way somebody else lives, because you learn- you figure out and then you stop dealing with adversity, and you stop dealing with things that are going to come at you because you're out there, you're always looking for happiness.

How many people out there, "If I lost ten more pounds, I would be happier." "If I was in a better relationship, I would be happier." "If I had more money, I would be happier."

Well, you know what? You could have all those things, but instead of having somebody else do that- you don't go out and find happiness, you create it.

And how do you create it? You create it by becoming the person that you are meant to be. That's how you create- you don't find happiness, you create happiness.

And once you can create that happiness, then you start feeling better about yourself, the weight starts coming off, your mind starts to become more clear, you're able to deal with more adversity.

You know, you have individuals all that time that come up to you when something doesn't go right, what do they do? They put their arm around you and say, "It's going to be okay."

That's all you got? Okay. No, it's not going to be okay unless you make it okay. Alright? And first- if somebody just says, "We're not put on this earth for things just to be okay. There's too many people out there that are already settling for okay and average."

That's not what we're put on this planet for. Everybody on this planet has the ability to do something special.

And it's special to what? To you. You know, you have individuals here that are really into different kinds of charitable events, you have people that run unbelievable pet rescues, or whatever it is. Whatever is unique to you.

Those are not financially super rewarding, but that's the identity of the person. That's what's unique to those individuals. They are living their life of how they want to live, not what somebody else wants them to be.

Shawn Stevenson:  Right. Man, I thought that was so powerful because especially during this time when we can get so many- my mother-in-law calls them borrowed desires. Right?

Especially with social media today. Like if I had that thing, when it wasn't even on your radar before, and you stopped listening to that inner guidance system about who you really are and what really makes you happy and brings you fulfillment.

It might not be making six or seven or eight figures. It might be, like you just mentioned, running a non-profit, or doing something and getting that fulfillment from something else.

But we have this really misconstrued idea that if I get that thing that everybody else has, then I'll be happy. And like you said, that's like folks taking up real estate in our own mind, so it's nuts.

Tim Grover:  From what you just said, we all have instincts, and if you just listen to your instincts, most of the time they're going to point you in the right- it'll point you in the right direction.

If you just think about how simple it is. When you're driving, and you'll be like, "Yeah, this location is on the right, but I'm going to turn left." And you go, "I should have listened to my instinct."

You should have listened to your gut. And you know, we talk about closer and cleaners, a closer trusts his instincts. Okay? In cleaners, instincts trust them.

And there's these little levels of what these 1% can do, but we all have the ability, we all have instincts.

You already know things, a lot of decisions you make in life, a lot of things you do, you already know what the consequences and outcome is going to be, but you still do it anyway.

Shawn Stevenson:  Right.

Tim Grover:  Okay? You still do it anyway.

Shawn Stevenson:  Man, this is so powerful because I'm a very analytical person, and I'm a scientist so I'm always looking for the data, the proof. How can we replicate something?

Tim Grover:  Right.

Shawn Stevenson:  And some things- and this is also what I really wanted to meld into my show, and why I do what I do, is there are some things that we can't explain, and it's beautiful.

Tim Grover:  It is.

Shawn Stevenson:  Part of that is our instincts. Like we don't have tangible proof of that knowing, but we all experience it.

And so when you wrote in the book about trusting animal instincts, I'm like- but what do you say when people say, "Well, we're not animals."

Like because a bird, just within a matter of a certain amount of time, is going to be able to fly. The baby deer when it comes out, it'd better get up and walk.

Tim Grover:  Yes.

Shawn Stevenson:  The instincts are there. We're part of that kingdom.

Tim Grover:  Yes, we are.

Shawn Stevenson:  We have some phenomenal instincts but we allow- again, folks taking up real estate in our minds. Also faulty beliefs about reality taking up real estate, and we stop listening to our instincts, and I think that that's one of the biggest issues because when you mentioned- like just today I was taking my son to a college visit, and my instincts were telling me to go to certain parking, and I didn't listen, and I ended up spending like five minutes driving back around.

And those are those moments, Tim, that it's just like, "I've got to listen to my instincts." And I really- like I get on myself about it now, because every time I listen, without fail, something good happens. You know?

It might be the- let me not say every time, it might be those little random whatever. But if I look sometimes- you know, it might be something that I do in business, or it might be something in working with somebody.

When I listen to my instincts, it might not seem like it turned out the way that I expected, but there's always a gift in it.

Tim Grover:  Yes, and I've written programs, I've sat- just like you, I've sat down for weeks or months putting this elaborate training program for an individual, analyzing all the movement patterns, seeing what's going on, got all of the health reports, and I get five minutes into a training program and I'm just like, "This ain't going to work."

Just like, "It ain't going to work." It looks great on paper, everything- like I got it, I got it down, and the minute the athlete does one move, I say, "Throw it out. Start all over."

Shawn Stevenson:  That takes courage to do that.

Tim Grover:  It does. It does, and listen, we already know. Instead of like trying to force something in there, and just, "I'm going to make this work, I'm going to make this work because I know the numbers are this way."

It's just not- for some individuals, you have to have the courage to say, "I'm going in a different direction. I'm still going to get that end result, but I'm going in a different direction."

You know, when you first started doing these podcasts and everything you're doing, how many different times did you have to change things up? And you're constantly still evolving. Alright?

Like I said, you're still chasing that- you can go back to everything that you've done, and you can sit there, and every single podcast that you've done, and all the followers that you have and everything, you can't say that, "I've had a perfect one."

Because if you watch something, you'll be like, "That was off. I should have asked that question. I should have done that."

And those are your instincts that allow you to be better and better each time over and over and over again.

Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah. And oh man, it just really makes me hungry for it, you know? Just even thinking about it, and I think there's a lot of questions that come up for folks when they read a book like yours.

Like you know, where do I fit in this spectrum? And I think that there's- because even as you're speaking, like I'm really, really excited and hungry to get better. You know?

And looking from the outside in, you might think, there's a pinnacle you've reached, but it's not. You know? There's always more.

Tim Grover:  There's always more. You look at your most competitive individuals. Kobe went from retiring twenty years of basketball, now he's become relentless, and is a cleaner in the business world.

Michael went from playing his fifteen years, then ownership of a team, running the most successful shoe brand company

Shawn Stevenson:  I've got them on right now.

Tim Grover:  Yeah, I noticed it when I first came in. Let's take Jeff Bezos, everybody knows who that is, it's the gentleman that- Amazon.

When he first got in, "I'm going to sit here, I'm going to deliver packages to people's homes in two weeks." And if you were satisfied, he'd have been out of business.

Then he came up and said, "You know what? I'm going to do it in a week." Then, "I'm going to do it in two days."

"Now you know what? I'm going to have these little things flying over people's houses and dropping packages off on the same day."

"You know what? That's not even good enough. I'm going to have it so you can have it in an hour."

You know, it's always trying to figure out how to- knowing there's going to be bumps in the road, and once there are bumps in the road, you know you're on the right road.

And constantly figure out a way to do things a little bit better, a little bit more efficiently. Not afraid to try new things, not afraid to be embarrassed if things don't work out.

There's not a single individual on this planet that's had 100% success at everything that they've done. Doesn't happen.

You look at all these individuals, they've had some massive failures. Massive.

Shawn Stevenson:  In the book you write, 'My goal is to make it so challenging in the gym that everything that happens outside the gym seems easy.' What did you mean by that?

Tim Grover:  It was something I actually learned from Michael. Michael practiced so hard that the games were easy. He practiced so hard.

And it was funny, very few practices did Michael and Scottie ever play on the same team because Michael knew Scottie was the one guy- because top defensive player law that he would challenge him every single day.

So it's being prepared for no matter what is going to be thrown at you, not only physically, but mentally.

So you've put in the time, you've put in the effort, you've put in the research. You know, go back to when- and this is a great lesson for the kids, but even we had this stuff when we were in school.

You had a test, you studied for the test, you'd go to school, you'd be like, "No problem." The day you may be a little nervous when you go in.

You got a test, you didn't study. "Man, I hope we get a snow day." Well, out in San Diego, you're not going to get a snow day, but where both you and I are from, the Midwest. "Man, I hope we have a substitute teacher."

Shawn Stevenson:  Something.

Tim Grover:  "I hope there's a fire alarm that day." You weren't prepared. You weren't prepared. You have to be so well prepared that it makes everything else easy.

Go back to the fitness thing, and people always say that working out is uncomfortable. Working out is supposed to be uncomfortable. Right?

But how uncomfortable is it with type two diabetes? How uncomfortable is it carrying an extra fifty pounds, not only on your heart, but on your joints?

How uncomfortable is it with high cholesterol? How uncomfortable is it having achy joints? If you really go back and think about it, and you know this better than I do, how many things both physically and mentally could you just alleviate by exercising, by eating better, and getting the proper amount of sleep?

Shawn Stevenson:  It's the root of almost everything.

Tim Grover:  Right. But that's what I'm talking about, being so well prepared. Those individuals that are so well prepared, you don't think they take their workout seriously?

Your most successful entrepreneurs in business, the majority of them, have a very strict regimen of exercising. It's part of their protocol.

Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah.

Tim Grover:  You can look it up, alright? They eat well, and they get the proper amount of rest. You know? Everyone talks to me, "Yeah, I work eighteen hours a day."

Listen, just because you put in long hours and hard work, that doesn't guarantee success. It's what are you putting the long hours in, and knowing when to say, "Hey, listen."

You have an individual- you can be effective for a certain amount of time. Yeah, you might be able to do two days in a row where you've done eighteen hours, but then after that, is your mind really functioning? Is your body really functioning at an optimal level?

Shawn Stevenson:  Right, you've got to recover.

Tim Grover:  You have to recover. Kobe used to- everybody thinks Kobe Bryant used to take 1,000 shots. "I took 1,000 shots." He didn't take 1,000 shots every day.

He understood that some days, this is what I'm going to do. The next days I'm here. These are the individuals, but they always listen. You know?

The one thing, and we talked about this earlier, how do things become easier? How things become easier is when you start to listen to individuals that have expertise in other fields and you put that in action.

My first professional client was Michael Jordan, alright? He knew I was never going to play. I've never scored a single point in an NBA game.

Now, I've scored a basket in every NBA arena when it's empty, I've taken the shots, but he knew this individual has an expertise in something that can benefit him.

Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah.

Tim Grover:  And he was willing to listen. And when you're willing to listen, you're willing to adapt, you're willing to overcome, things become easier. They become easier when you expect them- when you stop expecting them to become easier.

Shawn Stevenson:  Awesome. Awesome. I'm starting to really hear that listening is a super power, and paying attention is a super power. These were the things that you were doing early on, and now to hear this from- again, people that we see as literally legends, the greatest to ever do it.

They listened, you know? Having the audacity, when you're as great as you are, to actually listen. And I think it's just this kind of internal fire again, to just want to get better, and to do whatever it takes to get better.

But asking this question-

Tim Grover:  I'm going to stop you right there.

Shawn Stevenson:  Yeah, yeah.

Tim Grover:  Here's an easy thing, alright? If you believe in a higher power, or an individual, however we were created. How many ears do you have?

Shawn Stevenson:  I've got two.

Tim Grover:  How many mouths do you have?

Shawn Stevenson:  One.

Tim Grover:  Listen twice as much as you talk. Listen twice as much as you talk.

Shawn Stevenson:  Simple enough. Simple is enough. I've found recently- and I've been, again, just paying attention.

You know what's so funny? I don't know if I've ever shared this on the show before, but I grew up- I was in different environments, you know? And I tended to be- I tended to not fit in because of my background, and being biracial.

In one community, I was in the minority, and then I'd go to the complete opposite, and so when people, again, are asking like, "Well, how did you get to this place? What was your path to success?"

I just sat back and listened. I was very quiet, but that doesn't mean that I wasn't engaged. I was paying attention to what was going on around me.

And I love this quote that God doesn't call the qualified, God qualifies the called. And so I kind of feel like my life was qualifying me for what I am doing today.

And it was those moments where I might think that it was a disadvantage to not fit in, but I was just sitting back and I was listening and I was paying attention.

I was paying attention to people's mannerisms, I was paying attention to how people are moving, and talking, and relating to each other, and just taking mental notes.

And it wasn't like super conscious, but it's just because I was listening. And it might have even been a result of fear, and this is something else you talk about.

We're going to have fears, they're going to be there. You're going to feel nervous, but I think you mentioned to Michael one time- because he talks about even him being nervous before big games, and you mentioned something about getting the butterflies moving in one direction.

Tim Grover:  Yeah, it's funny, everyone says- being nervous is a part of life, alright? It happens. It's something that- it's an instinctive thing.

So a lot of people can't control it and they say, "Man, I always have this thing. Man, I've got butterflies in my stomach."

I said, "That's great you've got butterflies. Make sure they're all going in the same direction." You control which way you want the butterflies to go.

It's just like your thought process. If you've got thoughts in here, and you've got them bouncing around all over the place, you don't have clarity up here. You don't have clarity, alright?

You have to get- whatever direction you choose to go in, you have to have clarity about that direction. And once you have clarity about that direction from a physical standpoint and from a mental standpoint.

People always say, "I want to move forward." Great, you want to move forward. You want to move forward and upward. You just don't want to move forward.

If you're only moving forward, you're following the pack. The idea is to get away from the pack. The idea is to separate yourself from individuals. The idea is to separate yourself from the pack.

The better you do for yourself - and this is where society is a little bit off - I disagree with this. Everyone always says, "You need to help other individuals. You need to be available for this."

I agree with that 100% but not at the stake of not taking care of yourself. Because if you can take care of yourself, that allows you to do more for yourself, and it allows you to do more for others.

But if you don't take care of yourself, you can't do more for others. So sometimes in order to give more, you have to be a little bit more selfish.

And if you become a little bit more selfish in the right way, you can do more for yourself, which is going to allow you to do more for individuals.

So people that are always telling you, "You're selfish. You're selfish," those are the individuals that you're constantly doing stuff for, and that are taking up your time.

And they have to understand, "Listen, I need time for myself." Just like you don't reach the subscribers and the status where you're at in this business unless you have time to work on yourself, unless you have time to work on your craft, and the more time you have to work on yourself, the more time you've got a chance to work on your craft, the more knowledge and information you've been able to help other individuals.

Otherwise this thing could be- you could be talking about the same topic that hundreds of fitness people talk about every single day. It's the same thing over and over and over again.

You've taken it and you've gone in a direction that's very difficult for people to go in because it requires you to research and put in the time.

And the thing I said, it requires you to put in that time and effort, and a lot of people forget how important you is.

Shawn Stevenson:  Oh man. Man, that's a mic drop right there. Man, that's so real. You know, again, there are so many things I want to ask you about.

But having this in front of us, this opportunity to get better, to improve, we're also going to fail. And all of these incredible athletes that you've worked with over the years, they've failed numerous times, but they don't see failure in the same way that the average person does.

So can you talk a little bit about that; what you've seen consistently with them?

Tim Grover:  Failure is a learning process. Alright? It's never failure- it's only failure if you don't learn from it. If you learn from it, you can never consider it failure, alright?

So that's how you've got to kind of look at it. These individuals that- everybody's going to fail, and so you're not going to hit every game winning shot, you're not going to throw the perfect pass for the touchdown every single time.

But are you willing to learn from that process? You know, people always say- I love this, they say this all the time. You learn more from losing than you do from winning.

Your top of the top people learn just as much from winning as they do from losing. It's a constant learning process, and if you have a constant learning process, are you really failing?

You only fail when the learning process stops. You know, we have a big thing about- especially you have kids now, how old are your boys?

Shawn Stevenson:  One is eighteen and the other is seven.

Tim Grover:  Alright. They know it all?

Shawn Stevenson:  Absolutely not. Not even close.

Tim Grover:  But it's funny, the learning process starts when you realize you think you know it all.

Shawn Stevenson:  Dangerous.

Tim Grover:  That's the dangerous part. So failure is- you decide if you failed at something. Alright? That's your decision, and if you decide you failed at something, you figure out a different way to get that end result.

But as long as you continue to constantly learn, and don't let that failure beat you up. There's people that are constantly- something that they failed at many, many years ago, and it kind of just continues to eat at them over and over and over again.

You're never going to forget about it, but you can't constantly think about it, you know? The greats, they remember their failures, they could tell you to the detail.

You talk to the greatest entrepreneurs, they'll tell you every business idea that didn't work well, every stock that they bought that didn't go, and what do they do? They use it as a learning thing and they laugh at it.

Did they forget about it? No, but they don't constantly think about it. People that don't know how to use failure, they're constantly thinking about that failure moment, and when you're constantly thinking about the failure moment, you're not in the moment.

Your greatest athletes and your greatest business people - and I say this all the time - thinking to them is a distraction because if you're thinking, you're not in the moment.

In order to be in that 1% - not even that 1%, that 0.0001%, the zone is not about thinking. The zone is about clarity, it's about being able to let your instincts do everything that they're meant to do. It's not thinking about the failures, it's you're in the moment.

How many times can you talk to an individual that they can tell you, "I'm in the moment"? How many?

Shawn Stevenson:  Not today.

Tim Grover:  Yeah, not today. Not with all the- and this all ties back to what we talked about earlier. It's with the distractions. You get distracted so easily, you're never in the moment.

And I'm not talking about just work. I'm talking about when you're with your family, when you're with your kids, whatever you're doing, be in that moment.

Because if you're not in that moment, you're going to miss that moment, and sometimes you don't get that missed opportunity or that missed moment back. That's a failure.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Alright, I hope that you are enjoying this incredible compilation of conversations with the one and only Tim Grover. That first segment was from our first time connecting. It was this very cool experience at a studio in San Francisco and our schedules lined up and so we were able to sit down and have a conversation. The next segment is from a conversation that we had at my home and it was just one of the coolest experiences ever. And by the way keep in mind when we’re talking about sports performance which is what Tim’s really known for. Again, it really boils down to what’s happening internally coz the body follows the mind. It’s great to have huge  insights about nutrition and pre-workouts and all these stuff. But it doesn’t matter if our mindset isn’t attuned to doing the thing. Now one of the staples in our culture, when we are talking about sports performance today. Because the marketing has to do with the replenishment of electrolytes. And we’ve seen the rise and somewhat falls too. Still doing it’s thing, but now this industry is starting to get a lot of holes poked into it because people are realizing that all the abnormal amounts of sugar, artificial colors and all that stuff coming along with this so called sports drink, the likes of gatorades, powerades, and things like that. Those days are numbered because right now, we are looking at getting our electrolytes optimized from sources. Number 1 clean sources that are actually based from salts and keep in minds, it’s not just sodium salt, it’s also potassium salt, calcium salt, there’s magnesium salt. Our bodies need all of these things in abundance. Because when we are talking about energy, talking about sports performance, we really need to understand that this is a lot to do with efficiently utilizing energy. And that is going to be determined by our mitochondria.   It’s within our mitochondria that fat actually gets “burned for energy” and one these key electrolytes , so these are minerals that carry an electric charge, magnesium is literally required to make new mitochondria. And when it comes to sodium, it’s about hydrating ourselves, it’s also keeping our brains hydrated.

And scientists from McGill University found that sodium functions as an “on/off swith” in the brain for specific neurotransmitter that support optimal function and protect the brain against numerous diseases. So that’s 2 key electrolytes for sports performance. The other one would be if we are talking about the top-tier potassium because it has a lot to do with muscle function. Now utilizing hundreds of thousands of data points on the ideal ratios of these key electrolytes. Was a foundation for the creation of the electrolytes supplement that I use everyday from LMNT. That’s L-M-N-T, go to drinkl-m-n-t.com/model and not only you’ll get access to the premier, the very best electrolytes in the world, you’ll also going to get a free gift with every purchase. They’ll send you a free bonus pack, a sample pack as a gift every time you get any of the electrolyte from LMNT. Again go to drinkkl-m-n-t.com/model, get your free gift and get hooked up with the best electrolytes in the world.

Now in this next segment, again, we’re talking about multi-time best-selling author, the trainer to Michael Jordan, Koby Bryant, Dwayne Wade, the list goes on and on. In this next segment, you’re going to hear about, why winning and being successful make you a little or maybe even a lot weird. You’re also going to hear about surprising truth about fear, the story behind Michael Jordan’s infamous flu game,  and a powerful insight about self-belief. Check out this segment from the amazing Tim Grover.

TIM GROVER: So when I trained all my athletes, the first thing we always concentrated on, "Let's build the strongest foundation." You could have the most beautiful house there is, alright? You could have all the nice stuff, you could have all this stuff, you could have all these things going on in here, the best-looking furniture, all the crystal, the diamonds, and all that other stuff, if that foundation isn't built, then what are your principles built on? Your principles... Your foundation isn't built on your principles. That's it. Those things have to be rock solid.

That's why in both of my books, when I listed my 13 traits, I always list them as number one. I list all 13 as number one. You have to decide how you want to put them. Now, they're as equally as important. They're as equally as important. You can't say, "Hey, I'm only going to do this one." It's just like people would be like, you give them a health plan and says, "Well, I only want to do this Monday through Friday. I don't want to do this on Saturday and Sunday." That's not a foundation. That's not a principle. They're all equally as important. You decide what order you want to put them in, that's unique to you, what you said in the individuality of that individual. What principles one person has, somebody else's principles may be different, no one's right, no one's wrong, but those have to be your principles, and most of them have to be non-negotiable.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. One of the most powerful sentences in the entire book, and I've got it right here, Winning, the new book out... When this is coming out, it's just released, so make sure to pick up a copy. But one of the most powerful sentences in the entire book for me is when you said, "There is nothing normal about winning."

TIM GROVER: Absolutely nothing.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I had to put the book down and sit there for a second because you said something that's just in my awareness, but I never put words to it. Can you talk about that?

TIM GROVER: Think about it, there is nothing... Any winner that you know, that success we won over and over and over again, are they really normal? They're all a little off. They're all a little... So when everybody says, "Man, he or she is crazy. They're a little bit off, I don't understand the way they think." Everybody thinks that's a bad thing. That's a pre-requisite to winning. So when people call me crazy, I'm like, I always say, "Thank you very much," because you know what crazy means? That means I have the ability to see things that other people don't. Everybody that's done something extraordinary in the world, whether they've changed the world, whether they've come up with a new educational principle, whatever it may be, architecture or so forth, somebody said, "Man, that idea is crazy." I said, "This dude is like... This dude is... This girl is like, yeah, they don't know what they're talking about." This world is built on crazy.

How many people told you when you were just like, "Hey, I'm going to do this show on health and wellness, and tell the truth about it" and people are like, "Why you want to do that? No one is going to listen to you. You got to be crazy to do that." They couldn't see. They couldn't see. Actually, let me change that. They did see, they didn't have your vision. There's a huge difference. And everybody that's a little crazy... When you talk about winning isn't normal, winning is not normal, you have to be a little bit off. I always say this, and I also have this in the book, "Winning makes you different, and different scares people." It really, really does. It really does.

It's easy to fit in, it's easy to look at everybody and fit in that pack and so forth, but once you start to win, in whatever you want to win, you want to win at your health, you want to win at your business, you want to win at your raising your kids, it makes you different, and people are scared of different. They're like, "Well, why are you raising your kids that way? Why are you only eating this? Why are you only doing that? What are you doing? Your son, why does he need all that muscle?" Alright? Different scares people. But your definition of winning, my definition of winning, his definition of winning is different. It is different. There's nothing normal about winning. Winning doesn't want you to follow, it wants you to lead. It wants you to lead.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. So, I think a big component of why folks... Like you just said, it's not normal, it scares people. It brings up that F word, fear...

TIM GROVER: It does bring up fear.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And we've got to talk about this. Especially we have a certain template based on, again, how we're raised, our experiences, our mindset, our sense of empowerment. So for my wife, for example, it's a subconscious or an unconscious feeling of, again, "You're going to leave the pack. You're going to stretch us. What if you are number one, what kind of attention does that bring? How does that change the dynamics? There's so many uncertain things." But within that... And I want to talk about this, if we're talking about in the concept of folks who are winners, winning at... And there's many different definitions of what that is, but I want to ask you this, because I think that we might think that the person who's doing the thing, who's out there working towards their victory doesn't have fear. But that's not case, is it?

TIM GROVER: That is not the case at all. They have more fear than anybody else. And I talk about this book... I talk about this in Winning also. I've talked to every person I've ever coached, from the business to the athletes, whoever it is. I said, "Do you have fear?" "I have fear all the time."" They have fear all the time. Now, does that fear freezes you in one spot? Does it paralyze you? Or does that fear propel you forward? That's how you have to look at it. So this is what they do. They all have fear, but they don't have doubt. There's a huge difference between fear and doubt. Fear is instinctive. Fear is instinctive. Alright? That's something that's telling you... Hey, listen, if you don't have fear, whatever you're chasing, whatever your win is, whatever race you're in, it's not big enough. It's not big enough. So we all... Fear is instinctive. Alright?

Doubt is something we bring on ourselves, and a lot of times the doubt we bring on ourselves is manifested through what other people tell us, through their thoughts, through their ideas, which we start to believe. And the people that win take other people's doubts, and they use them for energy, they don't hold on to them. It's just like a workout. It's like an empty calorie. It's like an empty calorie. It serves no purpose. You got to burn it off, you use it for fuel, and get rid of it. So everybody's going to have fear. You're supposed to have fear, but you cannot have any doubt that this is going to do it. I'd rather have you fail at something and say, "I went after it," than be frozen by doubt and never given that... And never go after that opportunity.

And that's what most people do from a health standpoint. Yeah, when you give them a nutrition plan, when you tell them, "These are the things that you have to do," there's some fear in you. There's some, "Wow, I got to give up this. I got to do this, I got it here. My sleeping habit's here. This is what's going to happen from a physical standpoint, mental." And you're like, "Man, can I do all this? Can I do all this? Can I do all this?" But the ones that have been like, "You know what... " Just like you said, when your podcast's sitting in Missouri, you had no doubt. You had no doubt, "So we're going to do this." And that's what you did.

So, things that people think are negative... The greatest athletes in the world have the fear. They have the fear. Michael Jordan used to tell me all the time, "Every time I get out on the basketball court, yeah, there's a little bit of... There's a fear of me not playing at my highest level, but I have no doubt on what the outcome is going to be." He always says, he goes, "I never lost a game in my life, I just ran out of time."

SHAWN STEVENSON: Come on. And also it's because no one is entitled to winning.

TIM GROVER: Winning has no loyalty to you, it has no loyalty to me, it has no loyalty to anybody else. In the book, I say this, "You can hold on to winning briefly." Because once you hold on to it, it's already moving on to the next individual, it's always looking for the next person to conquer, it's always looking for its next individual. That's why a lot of people can't win over and over again. You could have easily said, "Yeah, I had the number one podcast."

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right.

TIM GROVER: But in order to have...

SHAWN STEVENSON: It's a fight.

TIM GROVER: Every single day. Winning has no loyalty. You can say, "Listen, if we can launch this thing... " And you look at your rankings, now you're at number three. It has no loyalty to any of us, and it's not supposed to. It's not supposed to, 'cause it wants you to fight, it wants you to fight for it. It wants you to acknowledge it. It wants to acknowledge you. It wants to invite you to the celebration, but you got to earn the right to get to that celebration.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. When you... You asked the question in the book, you said that... You asked this to your top athletes, you asked this to lots of folks, to define winning in one word. And when you asked that question, I put the book down, and I thought about it. And the first thing that popped up for me is "fight". And then I was like, "Why that word, Shawn?" Because, for me, real talk, I'm more gentle than you.

TIM GROVER: Yes. No, you're right.

SHAWN STEVENSON: You grab people by the jugular. So I was just, like, "Fight"? But that's what I felt, that, it is, that's the thread that I exist by it, with the movement, with my mission. It's a fight.

TIM GROVER: Yes. It's a fight to change lives. It's a constant fight to change lives. You're not talking about, "Listen, I got to get into a fisticuff with somebody, or I got to get in a physical altercation." No. It's a fight...

SHAWN STEVENSON: Me and Ronald McDonald.

TIM GROVER: Yes. It's a fight to change lives. So when I asked the question to those individuals, I said, "Well, give me what your definition of winning was." Everybody was... Think it's always going to be glorious, and it's happiness, and all this other stuff. These were the answers that came up most. It's nasty. It's hard. It's unpolished. It's unapologetic. And then Koby came up and said, "It's everything." It's everything.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Everything. That's big. That's big.

TIM GROVER: Now, think about that. How do you feel when you win? It's a feeling you can't describe. Alright? How do you feel when Jordan wins?

SHAWN STEVENSON: It's everything.

TIM GROVER: It's everything. How do you feel when your wife wins?

SHAWN STEVENSON: It's everything.

TIM GROVER: When your closest family members win?

SHAWN STEVENSON: It's everything.

TIM GROVER: When all the individuals that you help out?

SHAWN STEVENSON: It's everything. Yeah.

TIM GROVER: It's a feeling only winning can give you. It's a feeling only winning can give you. And once you feel that feeling, you need to feel it again and again and again.

SHAWN STEVENSON: 'Cause it's not permanent.

TIM GROVER: It is not...

SHAWN STEVENSON: And you really brought that right front and center in this book.

TIM GROVER: Yes. There is nothing... And that's one of the things... People think once they get to winning or once they've won once, that they are a winner. Just in my previous book, Relentless, I broke people down into three categories: Coolers, closers, and cleaners. I'm not going to discuss that, you guys can read the book on that one. But on this one, I have a different... I had a different... And this wasn't in the book, but I came up with it, I came up with it afterwards, and I said, "Well, let's look at people... " I look at people three ways from a winning aspect. There's people that compete. Everybody knows how to compete, we all know how to compete. And those individuals, they just want to finish something, they just... They want to compete just to finish. You'd be like, "Hey, okay, this program... I'm going to put you on a nutrition program. It's supposed to be a lifestyle program." But they just say, "You know what? Give me 12 weeks." So they put you on a 12-week program... You put them on a 12... They get unbelievable results, and like, "I finished this." And they go back to whatever they're doing.

Then you have the individuals that win, but only one time. They only win once because that unforgiving race that it took to get that win, they're like, "I can't do this again. I can't do this. I have that one win." And you know those individuals. How old are you, Shawn?

SHAWN STEVENSON: Forty-one.

TIM GROVER: Forty-one. You ever talk to anybody from high school still?

SHAWN STEVENSON: Zero.

TIM GROVER: Neither do I. They don't even invite me. I'm like banned from the reunion list, like I'm the person that doesn't get the invite, doesn't get the calls, any of that stuff. But we all know those individuals that tell you about their wins back in high school, 'cause they won that one time. And then you have individuals that win at winning. They win at winning. They're the ones that win over and over. And it doesn't always have to be in a sport. It's in raising their kids. It's in a charity work. It could be in whatever it be. It could be that school teacher that every single year no student is left behind, every single year. It's those people that know how to win over and over and over again. Because if you constantly win over and over again, think about all the different lives you're going to impact, all the people that you set examples for, not just in your athletic endeavor, but in life in general.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Winning at winning.

TIM GROVER: Win at winning.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Man, that blew my mind. That's powerful. This experience over the last year plus now, a lot of folks were looking for an outlet, they were looking for something to remind them of what's possible. But folks that win, it's just kind of... It's there already. It's already there. But people were demanding for The Last Dance to get released.

TIM GROVER: They sure were.

SHAWN STEVENSON: The ESPN special, and it was amazing. And so they released it earlier, the public groundswell of demand came out, and my son and I, we watched some of the segments together, but I watched all of them. And I saw you pop up there. I was like, "That's my guy. That's my guy." And you were sharing some of the juiciest, best stories.

And it was a story where... You tell the story, because we all see it as like they're on the cusp of this championship run yet again, and Jordan runs into this flu, he just caught something, but the story is a little bit different.

TIM GROVER: Yeah. So I'll be the first one, just to get it out there, I ordered the pizza. I did order the pizza, that was me. I made the phone call. It was the only pizza place that was open, I didn't have any other options. There was literally no other rest...

SHAWN STEVENSON: And Jordan requested something to eat.

TIM GROVER: Yes. There was no other restaurant open. Remember, this was in Park City before it was Park City, before it became really Park City. So he goes, "Man, I'm hungry." Room service was closed, everything was closed. We're like, "Okay. He's literally got to play tomorrow," and I'm like, I got to fuel this guy. For people that don't know him, his metabolic rate was extremely fast. So being from the nutrition side, I don't even have to explain that to you how detrimental that could be to an athlete that's got to perform at the highest level the next day. So we're scrambling, we're like, "Alright, listen... " I said... He's the one person I call "boss". I was like, "Boss, this is all I could find." He goes, "Man, order the f'in' pizza." "Alright, I got it." So I ordered the pizza, and people are like, "Why did you put his name on it?"

Listen. I know I'm not the brightest individual in the world, but I know better than to say, "Oh, the pizza put... " "Who's the order for?" "Michael Jordan." No, the pizza was under my name, alright. So they came in, they come in to the desk then they say, "We have a delivery... " Everybody knew where the Bulls were staying during that time. So they come upstairs and why the person at the desk let him upstairs, I don't know, maybe 'cause...

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's suspicious already.

TIM GROVER: Yeah. Well, maybe the room number was on there. They ring the doorbell, I open the door and there's five guys delivering one pizza. I'm like, "Man... " You see them peeking around the corner trying to see who was in there, we got the door just open just enough, I grab the pizza, tip them, and you know how your instincts just tell you, "Man, something isn't right here. Something just isn't right." And there was myself was in the room, a gentleman by the name of George, MJ, and a few of his friends, they were just relaxing. And he was the only one that ate. Nobody else touched the pizza and he had already told us, he goes, "Hey, the rest of you guys, hey, this is all for me."

So he eat the pizza and then about 3:00 in the morning, I get a call in the room and he said, "Hey, man I need you in MJ's room," so I go to MJ's and he's literally curled up in a ball. I'm like, "Oh man, what the hell happened here?" And there was no way it was the flu because he was perfectly fine when I left him like three hours ago. I was like, "Listen, we've all been hit by the flu, but it didn't hit them that... It didn't him that... " Immediately I thought about it, I was like... Checked anybody else. "Is anybody else sick? Did anybody else eat the pizza?" "No."

And then it just became known as the flu game, but MJ, we got him up enough, called a team physician, called the athletic trainers, did everything that we can. Got him to throw up whatever was in there and he just said, "Listen, this win is extremely important to us," he goes, "Just get me on my feet." He goes, "If you get me on my feet, I'll do the rest. I'll do the rest." And that's one of the most iconic games in history that's ever happened. And people do like, you said, Tom says, he calls it the flu game, but it was the first time in The Last Dance that he finally admitted it, it was a pizza. When MJ finally came out and said, "Yeah, it was a pizza," I literally jumped out of my chair, I was like, "Yes, yes. Finally he admitted it. He admitted it."

But the thing that I thought was so amazing about that is the one game no one talks about in Utah that describes winning and pressure to a tee is game number six in his last championship run. For the last 42 seconds of the game, they're down three points, 42 seconds left, not a single other Bulls player touched the ball. Not one, not one. He came down, he scored, went back on defense, stole the ball, came down again, scored again. Not one other Bulls player touched the ball. Pressure is a privilege, alright. That means you believe in yourself and somebody else believes in you, and you can't win unless you believe in yourself. You cannot... You cannot win at your health, you cannot win at business, you cannot win as a father, as a mother, as a son, as a daughter if you expect somebody else to believe in you more than you believe in yourself.

I always like to use the guests as an example. When you decided to make this jump way back when, all those people around you did not believe in you. If you didn't believe in yourself, you'd still be sitting in Missouri.

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's a fact. That's a fact.

TIM GROVER: That's fact. And even your wife had courage enough to say, "Hey listen, I didn't believe in you either. I didn't believe in you either." And everybody else is looking for everybody else to believe in them, they want to believe in their dreams, they want them to believe in their wins. They got their own dreams, they got their own wins, it's your job to bring those things to life. It's your work, it's your dedication, it's your sacrifice, it's your language of winning means to you, to get those wins over and over and over again.

SHAWN STEVENSON: We tell our children, for example, that they have so much potential. We use this term with so many people, "You got potential," but then we tend to diminish it because of the lack of belief, and part of it can be, of course, people don't want you to fall, they don't want you to suffer, they don't want you to have to go through what it takes to win and it's kind of that protective mechanism, but you have to rise above all those things. And what the tool is, and this word is another dirty word, could be, but is a healthy sense of self-confidence or it can be termed as an ego. And there's a battle against the ego, but I don't think people really understand the dimension of that. Your ego can be a tool that you utilize to drive you to where you want to be. So can you talk about the difference with confidence, healthy self-confidence, a healthy self-perception ego versus being conceited and arrogant and all these other terms that we have?

TIM GROVER: Listen, if you produce results over and over again, you have a higher level of confidence, and if you have a higher level confidence and your results are measurable... Every individual I know that's produced measurable results has an ego. It's necessary, it's not a bad thing. Now you have those other individuals... That's a healthy ego. You have those other individuals that have never accomplished anything that love to talk, they love to diminish everybody else's success because of their lack of success or they're faking success, they're faking winning. Alright, that's where it's a bad ego. If your results produce, you can define it as confidence, you can define it as ego, but those are the individuals that do this over and over again. It's healthy to have that. It's just like when you talk about egos, I like to also talk about being selfish. Selfish gets a bad rap also. It's not selfish, it's the word it's self that gets a bad rep. What is wrong with about taking care of yourself? What is wrong by creating time for yourself? If we call it me time, everybody says, "Oh, that's a healthy thing." But if you tell somebody, "Hey, I need an hour to myself," like, "Oh, you're so selfish."

"Okay, why do you have to go and work out every single day?" "Because the more time I take for myself, the more confident I will be, the better my ego will be able to help other individuals. The better I will be able to take care of everybody else around." If everything you did for self was considered selfish, you wouldn't work out, you wouldn't meditate, you wouldn't say no. You would eat what everybody puts in front of you, you wouldn't do the extra things that you need to stay healthy. You need to take, in order to help everybody else, in order to help other people with their wins, in order to let them see success, in order for them to do what they want to do, you got to do it yourself first. You got to do it yourself and there's nothing wrong with taking care of self. Kobe always used to say, "Man, he's so obsessed."

Well, how can you be number one... How can you have that number one health podcast out there if you aren't obsessed, and everybody says obsession is a bad word. Obsession isn't a bad word, it's just how you use that obsession that makes it an advantage or disadvantage. It's how you use your ego and how you place your ego, whether it makes it a bad thing or a good thing. It's all perception on how people think. Like when you move forward in your football career, Jorden, people are going to give you feedback and criticism, it's the exact same thing, it's how you hear it. It's the exact same thing.

SHAWN STEVENSON: With this and that self-confidence versus being arrogant, I think, especially if we're just looking at it in context of team sports, for example, it's also about the team. It's about...

TIM GROVER: It's always about the team, it's always...

SHAWN STEVENSON: So for... With this podcast, it's about the team, it's about the community, the family.

TIM GROVER: It's always about the team. Listen, you can go out and score 60 points and lose every single game, alright. You can do that. That's a bad ego, that's being selfish. We all have the ability to elevate ourselves, the challenge is can you elevate the people around you, can you elevate the team around you, can you elevate all the individuals that are listening to your podcast on a regular? That's the challenge. That's where the wins really, really come in and that's the difference, there it is. You can easily... You can motivate a lot of people. You can motivate a lot of people, but after motivation... Motivation is entry level, it really is. It's like that sugar high you get from eating a sweet, you get this real high and you get this spike, well what happens once you hit that down thing? Alright.

You have to have the ability to elevate. You have to have the ability, 'cause once that motivation wears off, do you still have the ability to elevate? And then what you're doing with all the information that you're putting out, you're elevating the mindset of individuals, that's what you're doing. You're not only motivating them, you're elevating 'cause that's what winning requires you to do. It requires you to elevate your mindset, 'cause there's a lot of individuals that are out there that are motivated, that are motivated, but that's as far as it goes, that's as far as it goes.

People read a new book, they get motivated. New Year's comes around, they get motivated. Well, what happens? If that motivation doesn't turn into elevation where you can light your own internal fire, because winning's going to do everything it can possible to diminish your fire, that's what it's job is. It's to make you... Winning's job is not to see you finish, it's to make you stop. That's winning's job. Winning's job is for you not to win. Let me say that again. Winning's job is not for you to win. That's why it's an unforgiving race, it's going to do everything possible for you not to get there, not only externally, but also internally. It's going to create doubt in your mind, it's going to make you second guess, it's going to turn your closest friends against you. It's going to turn your family members against you, it's going to turn you against you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Tim, why you got to tell the truth?

TIM GROVER: It's the only way I know how. How do you get the biggest breakthroughs with your clients? When they're honest with themselves. You told the story earlier about the individuals, you said, "I've done everything," they list three things. They're not being honest with yourself. The reason people don't want honesty is because honesty should lead to more action, but what honesty does it lead to more emotions, which leads to less actions and less results. What's the first thing a person asks you in a relationship? Honesty. Until you're honest with them. Until you're... I'm that type of individual that, don't ask me, "Do I look good in this?"

You already know the answer. If you're asking me, what do you want me to validate something that you already know? "No, you don't look good in this. You don't. 'Cause if you did and you had the... You wouldn't have to ask me." And it's funny, people will ask questions they already know the answer for because they don't want you to tell them the truth. When you put a program together for an individual, and you know that... How many pages in that book?

SHAWN STEVENSON: It's about 400.

TIM GROVER: 400 pages, 400 pages of literature, you put a... People would be able to look at it and be like, "Yeah, I don't want to do this, I don't want to do this. Yeah, yeah, okay, I'll do this part here, I'll do here, I'll do here, I'll do this." And then you finally tell them the truth, "No, you need to do from... You need to do from cover to cover, everything in between," and you tell them the truth and they'll be like, "You don't know what you're talking about. I'm not going to do that." And that makes a person more emotional and that's what winning wants you to do. It wants to make you more emotional because the more emotional you get, the more likely you're to quit.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, that's powerful. That's why we're lacking that, like you just said, going from cover to cover is going to be able to elevate your mindset so that you don't become dependent upon that motivation. Which motivation is a lot like a nice warm bath and then over time it gets colder and colder and colder, and...

TIM GROVER: That's a great way of putting it. The motivation is to go out and get the book, that's the motivation. The elevation is actually to do what's in the book. That's where the elevation comes in. The motivation is to go out and get the book. Yeah, you go online and you order it from whatever book store, whatever it is. Now you got these 400 pages and you're like, "Ah, I'll read it tomorrow. I'll read it the next day, I won't listen to it today, no." Because the motivation of it... The instant gratification of having it is gone. Now in order to open the cover and read everything and do what's in there, that's where the elevation comes in.

Every day there's a war going on in the battlefield of the mind here. Who's taking control of that battlefield? Are you taking control of that battlefield or is somebody else taking control of that battlefield? Listen, every single day, we have to deal with anxiety, we have to deal with, am I good enough? We have to deal with, with what everybody else is telling us. We have to deal with fear. We have to deal with failure. We have to deal with those things. If those things are constantly blowing up all the time, you're going to lose the battle. You have to be able to know where those minefields are.

And you have to be able to maneuver those... To maneuver in those things. And not always those things are negative. A lot of times people set you up for that battlefield... For that explosion in your mind. "You don't need to work out today." "Man, Shawn... Man enjoy yourself, man. Here, have a couple of drinks. Do this thing." So other people start to plant those things in your mind and they get control of it and they start to explore those things. They start to disengage all those things. They start to blow things up. This is your most valuable real estate. This is your most valuable real estate. And for a lot of individuals, we don't even control this real estate, somebody else is sitting in there, in your real estate and they're not even paying rent. They're like, "You're just gave... "

SHAWN STEVENSON: Squatting.

TIM GROVER: Yeah, squatting. Exactly. You just... You just gave them that space. You got to be able to control that minefield that's going on in here. Your thoughts are not always your actions. Alright, listen. If all my thoughts were my actions, we...

SHAWN STEVENSON: The Tim Grover serial killer story.

TIM GROVER: Thank you. Thank you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: On TNT.

TIM GROVER: Thank you... No. But we're not. We're not always... We don't have to act on all of our emotions, we don't have to do those things. But you have to understand there's a battle that's going on in that mind, every single day. Every time you sleep, every time you get up, all those things. Listen, I have this thing in there, and this is so important. Your mind has to be stronger than your feelings. Your mind has to be stronger than your feelings. Think about every poor decision that you've made in your life.

It was a decision mostly made by your feelings. And you did that because you didn't want to hurt somebody. You didn't want to tell them the truth. And that's a battlefield that constantly goes on in the mind. That's why, listen, with me, you know what you're going to get. I want you to tell me the truth. I'm going to tell you the truth. When is the best time to tell the truth? All the time. All the time. You know... I tell the thing... A couple of... A couple of years ago, I was on a date with a young lady. We went out a couple of... We went out a couple of times. And then I was like, "This isn't going to work."

So we got together and she goes, "Oh, please don't give me that line that it's not me, it's you." I said, "No, no, it's you. No, it's you." You don't have to worry about that. Let's get this perfectly clear. But the point to that story is you tell the truth, you control the battlefield and you control the battlefield in your mind. You let other people tell you the truth... Yeah, it isn't going to always lead to the right emotion, but it's done. It's closure, you get to move on. Your mind has to be stronger than you feelings. We spend... Most people's nutrition. Alright. When do they give up?

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. When things get a little challenging.

TIM GROVER: That's it. When they start, "Ah, I don't feel... " Yeah, okay, you put them on a healthy plan to a better life, more fulfilling life. Alright, yeah, there are going to be some feelings and emotions that are going to be like, "Hey, no, you know what... You know what you don't need to sleep as much, you don't need to work out. You don't need to work out today. You can go ahead and have that cookie, you can go ahead and have that ice cream," and your feelings start to say, "Yeah it'll be okay," and your mind says, "I can't, no, no, no, no.: Most people, when they give up, you think about it in a workout, alright. You give up because you're mentally tired or you're physically tired. Most people, they just give up because their feeling just said, "I don't want to do this anymore," but you can still... Then when your coach tells you, "Come on, push a little bit more," all of a sudden, you find that extra gear. Well, that's just showing you that if your mind is stronger than your feelings, how much more you can do.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Part of that, what you said earlier was... Just really jumped out at me... All of that is incredibly powerful, but when somebody, for example, is offering you like, "Hey, come on, it's okay, here's this... " When I was really going hard, just the way that I grew up, I go to Taco Bell, I get 10-pack tacos and I'm not sharing. If somebody was like, "Here you have your 10 pack." And they know that you are, for example, working on a new health protocol, you're really working to be better, and that... But we think that it's them. But part of us is inviting that permission slip and that's part of that battlefield of the mind, and you having the opportunity to overcome that moment, and it's not even villain-izing the thing, it's just having this higher... Something that tastes even better, something... That win, that victory, that tastes so much better than these really sh*tty Taco Bell tacos.

TIM GROVER: You can go to get that taste from those tacos from a lot of different places, there's only one way and only one place you can get that taste and feeling of winning, and that's by winning. That's it. You can't get it from anywhere else. You can't get it from Taco Bell, you can't get it from Del Taco, you can't get it from Dell Frisco, you can't get it from whatever Del there is out there. Alright, you can't. That's the only place you can get winning from.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Number one, so number one, winning wages war in the battlefield of your mind. Number one, here's another one, number one, winning is the ultimate gamble on yourself.

TIM GROVER: Confidence, confidence. You got to gamble on yourself. Did you gamble on yourself?

SHAWN STEVENSON: Absolutely, had to.

TIM GROVER: Alright, Jorden, did you gamble on yourself? Alright, did you gamble on yourself young man? Alright. I gambled on myself. Why should... Why are you waiting for somebody else to believe in you and have more control? You got to gamble on yourself. You got to know that, "Hey listen, when I gamble on myself, I have the utmost confidence, I know what the outcome is going to be." Put your health in your own hands. Put winning in your own grasp. Don't wait for somebody else to hand it to you. But you have to believe in yourself, you have to believe in your abilities, not only do you have to believe in them, you have to work in them, you have to excel in them, you have to understand them. If you're not willing to gamble on yourself, I'm not going to gamble on you, there's no way. I'm not going to gamble on you. I've never had to tell my athletes, listen, "You got to want it, you got to work hard, you got to show up early." That's part of the gamble, they already know that. They already know that. You hear this all the time, man, showing up is half of the battle. No, showing up is none of the battle, showing up is none of the battle. How do you expect to win the battle if you don't show up? It's just people that say that aren't willing to gamble on themselves, they're just not.

SHAWN STEVENSON: We're just touching on some of these tenets that are outlined in the book. I just want to hit on a couple more before I let you go, because these are things that I want to hear more about myself as well, and this one really jumped out at me, and I think it's really relevant right now as well. Number one, winning is a test with no correct answers.

TIM GROVER: No correct answers. There is no correct answers. The way you won is not the way I'm going to win, the way Jordan wins is not going to be the way Sherry win. No, we're all going to win or we're all going to have to figure it out ourselves, we're all going to have to figure it out ourselves, this is going back into what to think and how to think. This is it. There is no correct... If there's a correct answer, it's all about what to think, what to think. There is... Nobody told me when I was training MJ to be like, "Hey, listen, work out on game day." Nobody told me that. I didn't read that in a book.

SHAWN STEVENSON: That sounds insane. Just coming from the outside, you guys lifted on game days.

TIM GROVER: Every game. Every single game. Nobody told me... And people still do this now. You would see MJ and Kobe, Dwyane, all these individuals play so hard, and it was like, "Man, sometimes I get tired, I wish I could recover a little bit more". And I'm thinking... In my mind I'm thinking about it. And all the old adages out there, when you work out... You know, these are principles that you and I... When we were early in our careers, we may have even told other individuals because they told us to do this when you're really breathing hard and you try gasping for air, put your hands above your head so you can open up your lungs more. I'm breathing pretty freaking hard, my lungs are open. I think they're pretty much open. How can I recover faster? I told MJ, I said, "Grab your shorts." How many pictures do you see of MJ grabbing his shorts? I said, "Just bend over and grab your shorts." I said, "Don't put your hands on your knees, just grab your shorts," I said, "it'll allow you to recover," 'cause now what happens is you don't have the full weight of your body anymore, and I told Kobe the same thing, Kobe said... Well, I said... He goes, What that? He goes, "That doesn't look good." I said, "You want to look good or you want to win? Which one you want to do?" So that's what that's all about. That's literally what that's all about.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Iconic. I'm going to ask you about one more, because we've all heard the statement that life isn't a sprint, it's a marathon, but winning is different. So you have number one, winning is not a marathon, it's a sprint with no finish line.

TIM GROVER: Yes. It is a marathon, but with a bunch of sprints in between, and there is no finish line because once you finish one win, the next line always starts and the next one always starts and the next one always starts. You may win that day from a nutrition standpoint, if you're starting a health program or the mental exercise you give the individuals to create clarity or whatever, you've won that day. But the next day is a new start, and the next day it's a new start and it's a new finish and it's a new finish every time you finish the podcast, every time you do a new podcast, you finished that podcast, you got to the win, but there's another one, and then there's another one. And then there's another one. There's always another one. And you have to think of it this way, when you watch horses run in a race, they have no idea where the finish line is, they have no idea where the finish line is, they just keep going. You literally have to slow them down. So in your mind, understand that once you get to that... Once you end up finishing that thing, there's always another win that's waiting for you, there's always another one, and there's never a finish line. If there's a finish line, I go with exactly what Kobe said, "Rest at the end, not in the middle."

SHAWN STEVENSON: What an incredible time to be alive. We get to learn from the greatest minds  walking around directly from the best of the best. And I appreciate you so much for spending this time with me and to bring this in as your mental food for the day and you know would be great is sharing this information with the people that you care about. So please take action, share this out you can send this directly from the podcast app that you are listening on. And of course you can take a screenshot of the episode and tag me on Instagram, I’m @shawnmodel, tag Tim as well, give Tim some love. And I’m @shawnmodel at twitter as well and @The Model Health Show if you’re into the Facebook, that face world. I appreciate you so much for tuning in. We’ve got some epic masterclasses and incredible world-class guest coming your way very, very soon. So make sure to stay tuned. Take care, have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon.

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