There are people in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and beyond who are moving better, who are fitter and healthier than some people in their 20s and 30s, even some teens. We know this. We have technology now to be able to monitor and to track and to read biological aging, but that's getting deep into the weeds. What about the expression of the body, the expression of performance?

What do we see on the ground level? We see, again, people who are in their 40s, 50s, and beyond who are outperforming people who are very much their junior. That's what's possible right now. When I think about my grandparents at this age that I am right now, I lived with my grandparents. I'm just gonna say it.

My grandparents were grandparenting, all right? They were over

the hill, if I may, okay? All of the grandparent boxes that you might check psychologically, they were all of that, and they were babies. I'm a baby still. The paradigm has changed on what's possible at these different age brackets if we choose, if we so choose. And, ooh, I love my grandparents dearly.

I wish that I would've known just a s- sliver of what I know now to support them and to love them and to help them to stack conditions for their longevity, but I lost them way too soon, and it is my mission, this is part of my mission and a catalyst for me to do the work that I'm doing today. And I'm so grateful because today I have the opportunity to share with you an individual who I believe to be one of the premier teachers of our time, and I don't say that lightly.

His insights coming from a background of superstar level physical performance. He's gonna share with you his high jump record. It's unbelievable. I just... it, it took a moment for me to even process how high this individual was able to jump. And being a two-sport high-performing collegiate athlete at one of the most premier universities as well in the high jump and as a basketball player, and seeing the standard of care and the standard of thinking Having him debilitated in his ability to move, in his ability to manage and recover from pain.

And thank goodness he had his... there's some nature and nurture there, but his ability to ask questions and to research, and to not only up-level his performance and his healing, but to then be of service and help so many other people, and to do it in such a way with his communication style and the information that it can really pierce through and make a lot of sense in a very, very noisy environment when it comes to the Internets and the social medias.

And so, this is somebody to absolutely keep an eye on because I believe that his insights, his teaching prowess, and his wisdom is going to continue to grow in its impact, and you get to learn from him in these early stages. And so we're gonna talk about the biggest lie that lifelong athletes are told and believe.

We're gonna talk about building, and this is so critical, interoceptive awareness. This is a game changer. What's going on within our own bodies. We're gonna talk about compensation patterns. We're gonna talk about how discipline, how our discipline in being somebody who's fit, in being somebody who's healthy, in being somebody who's an athlete, how our discipline can actually be the catalyst for our injury We're gonna talk about something that happened in 1977, 1977, that created the culture of fitness and health that we have right now that we might not even realize it.

So we're gonna cover this and so much more, and I think you're absolutely going to enjoy this. So without further ado, let's dive right in. Stephane Duvivier is the founder of Mind Your Movement, where he helps lifelong athletes and high-performing professionals rebuild the movement mechanisms that allow them to train, compete, and stay active without recurring pain.

A former NCAA high jump champion who spent seven years pursuing professional high jumping, Steph developed his coaching philosophy after overcoming years of injuries and realizing that restoring movement quality, not simply adding strength or mobility, was the missing piece. He has since coached clients and athletes all around the world using a systems-based approach that combines movement mechanics, strength development, and body awareness to help people move with confidence again.

Let's dive into this conversation with the incredible Stephane Duvivier. To kick things off, please share the biggest lie that lifelong athletes are told

STEFAN DUVIVIER: The biggest lie that lifelong athletes are told is that their pain and tightness and any kind of breakdown is solely a result of age. Of course, age can be a factor, but just like the people in medieval ages would think to themselves that it was God's wrath that brought plague and all these sicknesses on themselves that they couldn't explain, it's the same thing that we're doing here.

We're blaming one part of the equation for the whole entire outcome that we're experiencing. So I just think it's really important to just see that there are deeper things that are going on underneath the surface that, yes, we may not have been able to explain very clearly with science the way that, you know, wh- where it is right now.

But we can most definitely see commonalities and patterns in how we're able to actually be more resilient and maintain these physical capabilities much longer than is normal these days.

SHAWN STEVENSON: You've seen it firsthand. I've seen it, seen it as well. There are people who are in their 50s and even their 60s who are moving cleaner than people in their 20s and 30s.

And I think we tend to think that that's just genetic cards that they got dealt. And you are actually sharing how this isn't just this kind of predetermined thing because their performance and their, their skill and their ability to move could be radically different as well based on their cho- their choices, based on their environment, based on the education that they're getting about their potential. So let's dig into this a little bit more

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah, most definitely. I think one of the biggest things to get deep right off the bat is your ability to be aware of these little details, these sensations that are going on in your body. Chinese internal martial arts actually has a term for this. It's called ting jin.

It's essentially listening energy. So it's a way of perceiving things. So you perceive through your whole body as opposed to what most people are commonly perceiving through, which is the five senses, right? Your hearing, your sight, et cetera. But there's a layer deeper than that where you're sensing the little pulse that goes through your hands or the way that your breathing settles down low or the opposite, it settles up in your chest and your neck.

Or all these little sensations where the average person isn't really tuning their awareness to that. And when you're actually able to see those things, you're actually able to gain a real sensitivity for your body and perceive not only movement, but we'll get into this later maybe, but life through that lens.

You're going to be a much better mover because you're going to see all those little places where you tense up, where you guard, where you're holding all this tension unnecessarily, and that is what people call the stiffness and the breakdowns that are ultimately leading to the injuries that they experience.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Y- another thing that we see is, somebody... We'll just say they have the same injury on paper, right? Somebody who's in their mid-20s and somebody who's in their 40s, right? And they can go day for day, frame for frame and heal at the same rate potentially. But the person experiencing that injury in their 40s very likely is indoctrinated with this idea to blame it on their age, right?

"It's just your age. It's wear and tear." And you've seen this stuff, and you hear it. This has been s- said to a lot of your clients. This stuff happens to everybody, you're just getting older. And again, that framing, the, even the belief system around that and the chemistry it creates in your body can heavily influence your rate of healing, and so you're really helping us to unlock and to reframe and to really i- create a level of freedom in this. And that's the thing that really inspired me and connected me with you was just this feeling of freedom that I see with you, that I see with the people that you work with, because that's what we all really want.

We wanna feel a sense of freedom in our bodies. But over time, especially with miseducation and without having the right tools and even the right mindset, we can start to feel like our body is against us, there isn't a unity there. And one of those things for us to look at is something you talk about is this kind of i- i- interoceptive awareness within our bodies, right?

So talk about what that, what that is, and then let's talk about where we tend to, to try to train that in- interoceptive awareness, which is in a calm state versus where we really need to train it

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah, yeah. So the way that I see it is, in modern day, we tend to live from the neck up, whereas even 100 years ago, we had to be in our bodies because we were doing more physically active things.

But because now we just hop in our car, go to work, and for eight hours or more, we're just typing away at a computer behind a screen, we're just up here in our head. So it's almost as if we lose the sensory faculties that allow us to actually inhabit our bodies. And because that happens, again, over time, we lose the ability to perceive the little tension that is gonna lead to an injury later down the line or the little signal that our body is giving us that something is off.

So we just simply need to start practicing the pr- the practice of being in our body. Once you can do that, of course, yes, we can do that in a calm setting, as you were saying, but if you can do that while you're exercising, while you're actually moving your body, especially if you're an athlete trying to perform at a high level.

If you can start doing that in your training and progress that all the way up to the actual intensity demands that you would see in your sport, if you can do that, then you're gonna be a whole new beast and you're gonna see a way higher level of resilience than if you were to just bang out some reps of some bench press or whatever else.

I mean, it's not even about the exercise 'cause you could be doing bench press and you could be feeling a lot more of these sensations that I'm talking about, and it can allow you to make these micro little adjustments that iron out any kind of issues that are, let's say, lingering in your shoulders or lingering in your thoracic spine or whatever it is.

Whatever it is, the movement, it, it can heal you when you're actually listening to what's going on.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, yeah. And we tend to try to build this if we become aware of this capacity to know what's going on in our bodies, this interoceptive capacity, in calm situations, right? So- Mm-hmm ... obviously yoga has just skyrocketed in popularity in the West.

This is ancient and thousands of years of documented practice. But of course, we find ways to frame it for what we, what we want. But a typical thing is okay, for your awareness or for you to relax you need to do some yoga. For you to help to, improve this kind of mind-body connection, you need to do some yoga.

And this is not to devalue that in the slightest But when we're talking about performance and life, when we're talking about especially for us and those of us listening and watching who desire to use our body in explosive, athletic, and, very dynamic ways. Again, not to minimize the dynamic ways of movement in yoga, but we're talking about in the context of sport and competition, and just being able to just play and not to think about getting injured and worrying about our bodies moving the way we want them to move.

You said that you don't have an awareness problem when it comes to this interoceptive capacity. You have a loading problem. All right, so talk about this a little bit more. Like, where can we actually-- how can we train this in that context? Because we wanna be able to move this outside of the mat, outside of the meditation, and use this in the real world

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Most definitely. So the place that I think is simplest to start is with the strength training that you're already doing. If you're an athlete, if you're trying to perform at a high level, most likely you're probably already gonna be doing the basics. You're gonna be doing split squats, you're gonna be doing some presses, some pulls, things like that.

Just start there. Don't even worry about all these different exercises that are out there, the functional exercises, the corrective exercises. Sure, you can incorporate some of that stuff, but it's really the basics that are gonna get you to where you want to go, and it's the basics done with this level of intentionality.

And so one of the easiest ways to become more intentional is to slow things down, especially on that eccentric part of the movement. So let's say you're doing a squat. On the way down, just going really slow, like maybe five seconds down or three seconds down, and just really being able to feel what's going on.

And you can implement a few different places of focus, such as your spine, making sure that you're lengthening through that spine from your tailbone all the way up to the top of the back of the head. Making sure that your shoulders are relaxed so that you can actually sink into the feet instead of your upper body holding all of the tension and holding you upwards, instead of allowing yourself to ground and be really more efficient in that grounding.

So all those little cues plus the slow execution of the movement is gonna allow you to start loading the areas that your body probably was trying to avoid before, whether it was because of an old injury or because of some kind of stress or whatever it was, your body is protecting these certain areas.

And when you slow things down and really pay attention, you can notice that. You can notice that guarding, that protective pattern, and just get rid of it. Just let it go. You can see that it's no longer serving you. Maybe it was serving you before. Maybe you had an old injury. Maybe you had a knee injury, let's say, and your body created all these guarding patterns around it so that you didn't create further damage to that knee.

But now that the tissue is healed, you need to get rid of that protective pattern. And because most people don't do that, they just accumulate these injuries over time and more and more guarding and protection, and then that's why they become stiff. It's not because they got old. It's because they didn't ever have a method of releasing that accumulated tension

SHAWN STEVENSON: I didn't even share this with you, man.

You've helped me from afar. Of course, we've talked before this interview, but there was something that was like just nagging me. It was an irritation, an irritation of a pain, like this little whisper of a pain that the volume would go up and down a little bit, and it was like lingering for two months, which is extraordinary, and what we tend to do, you kind of alluded to this, we tend to run from it, right? And try, I'm trying to run from it, run, move around it. But learning from you, and I simply put myself in p- into a position which I knew the triggering thing was a certain movement, right? A certain staggered deadlift-type movement.

And I was like, I knew it because that would trig- tend to, if I load a certain level, it can flare up. And so- Mm-hmm ... instead, I got into that same position, and I just stayed in that position, and I just was breathing, and I was just associating with that discomfort for the first time. Instead of trying to run from it, move around it.

It was gone the next day, completely, and it's been a couple months now have gone by. It's been like two months, I think, since we talked, maybe a month and a half. But it was cr- it was m- of course. The thing is of course, and it just kinda pissed me off that I didn't do this sooner. And it was just putting my body in this position and creating these safety signals, right?

And so what do you think about utilizing isometrics? Because that's basically what I, what it was. I was holding a isometric position. And man, I felt so good. It was just like a unlock, a freedom had manifested that was accessible to me the whole time, but instead of running from it, I really tuned in to my body and created this kind of, these conditions.

A- again, under load. I had a load. It wasn't anything astronomical or super heavy, but I just put my body in that position, and I found the source of the kinda discomfort, and I just associated with it, and I just stayed there with it, and it just kinda melted away, if that makes sense.

STEFAN DUVIVIER: I think isometrics are a great place to start for that reason.

I don't think you necessarily need to follow the typical prescriptions of doing it for X amount of time or with X amount of load or whatever other conventional things there are. Of course, that can be helpful in things like tendon rehab and, and whatnot, and there's a lot of research on, specific times and variables like that.

But I think what we're talking about here is really just dependent on your level of intention, as we've been speaking about. It's your ability to look within your body and notice, are you holding your breath? Are you clenching a certain area? For a lot of people with, let's say, low back pain, you find that a lot of times they're clenching through their hips and clenching through their low back.

Maybe their feet are gripping the ground really hard instead of just relaxing and just letting everything sink downwards towards the ground And once you're able to see those things again, that's when the isometric actually becomes more valuable in terms of healing your body and getting past these little aches and pains.

Because what I've learned through this whole journey is that it's not that pain is bad. It's literally just a signal. It's just giving you feedback about how you're moving. It's your body telling you like, "Hey, there's something going on here. Just pay attention a little bit." And that's why I like to, when I'm training myself and when I'm training other people, I like to follow the breadcrumbs, so to speak.

So you see one little thing going on, you see a little piece of tension in, let's say, your foot. You're gonna follow the breadcrumbs. So you look at that tension, you try and go deeper and deeper into it, similar to how if you're looking at a painting, you might look at it surface level and you might just see a bunch of colors on, on, on the painting.

But then you go closer and you can see different brush strokes. You can see that the brush strokes are going in different directions. You can see some blending of the colors, and you keep on just going deeper and deeper into specific sensations just like that because they're gonna show you more and more aspects of that same sensation that at first you might have just labeled it as heaviness.

But then you're gonna go and then you're gonna see, oh, it's actually a tightness in this specific area of my body. And then you're gonna see, oh, and that tightness in this specific area is actually related to the other side of my body and how that's loading the ground. And you just keep following the breadcrumbs like that, going deeper and deeper, and that's how you resolve your issues.

That's how you figure out that your shoulder pain is actually related to how the other side foot is loading the ground or whatever the case may be. It's not always that simple, right? It's a ton of variables throughout the whole body. But yeah, following the breadcrumbs like that is how ultimately you figure out everything that's going on in your body.

Even the health side of things like the organ systems and all that. That's not my wheelhouse. I won't get into that too much. But at least from the movement standpoint, 100% confident that's how you're able to troubleshoot things, not just doing exercises just for the sake of it.

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They make it a mandate to make that so for us. So again, head over to organifi.com/model. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com/model for 20% off. Now, back to the show. One of the things that you said is that your body has to learn how to stay connected under load, speed, pressure, and fatigue. When I think about the potential for injury happening, in professional sports, in even high school sports, our kids, the probability of injury happening when you are fatigued and trying to do something dynamic or, again, a l- a load input hits you at a certain way or a certain, your body's at a certain degree, and the probability of injury.

Again, your body in other circumstances can handle that load or to be able to do that specific thing, but these other conditions start to stack conditions against you. And so you sharing how your body has to learn how to stay connected, that's the key, staying connected under those conditions. Can you talk more about that?

Because what we wanna do is something else that you said as well is staying coordinated under chaos. Talk about that.

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah, I think that's a loaded one because when we say the word connection, not everybody might understand that in the way that we do. There's different levels to it. Just like I was talking about Ting Jin earlier, it's like there's levels to that.

I might not be able to sense something that my meditation teacher has been able to feel for years. So it's first off understanding that it's not just your current perception of what being connected is, of what being aware is. You have to understand that there's infinite levels to it. So that's the first thing, is just switching your mindset to that student mindset.

You're always a student of the game. You're always open to newer levels of sensing your body. And then from there, yeah, it's just being able to build on that. So you are able to do that in the simplest exercises, like just standing, for instance. So I do standing meditation. I, I literally just stand there.

This is an internal martial art. And I literally just stand there for twenty minutes at a time with my arms up, fingers pointing to each other. You can Google this if you don't know what it is. But I'm just doing that for twenty minutes at a time. My, my meditation teacher does it for an hour at a time every single day, just standing in the same position.

And so you're able to cultivate that awareness at that very basic low level of complexity environment, and then you translate that to your strength training, which still is a very controlled environment. And then from there, you can add things like jumps and more explosive movements, med ball throws and things like that.

Again, still focusing on the same concepts. The same way that I'm loading my feet and thinking about my spine and thinking about settling my breathing in the standing meditation is the same thing that I'm going to be feeling when I'm lifting weights. And then that same thing I want to translate into the more dynamic activities as I get into my sport as well.

And so one thing too that I think is undervalued is not just doing drills in your sport, but doing broken down versions of what you actually want to be able to accomplish. So let's say I'm a basketball player, and I wanna work on one dribble into a jump shot Instead of going full speed every time, I'm going to be really intentional.

Maybe I start from a static position. I start down low, and I have the ball kind of already to one side, and then I'm going to go slowly rolling over the ball of my foot, really feeling these different aspects of my body connect. And then I'm going to get into that one dribble pull-up, and maybe I don't even shoot it.

Maybe I just do ten reps of just going into that set position, that one-two step of the feet, and I'm feeling everything load properly. I'm feeling my feet contact the ground. I'm feeling how my hips swivel, making sure that I'm not compensating in any way, making sure that I'm not opening up my hips or shifting them or doing

Or maybe I have my weight distribution through both feet. Maybe that's off. Maybe I'm too much on one side versus the other. This is the time where I'm correcting all of that stuff, and then after that, maybe I'm going at thirty percent there. Then I'm gonna ramp that up. Then I go at fifty percent, and then I go at seventy percent, and then after a few reps of doing that, I feel really comfortable.

I feel really, really connected. Then I'm gonna go at a hundred percent, and then I don't even need to do that many reps at a hundred percent because now my reps are so high quality at that hundred percent that it's going to ingrain much better patterns as opposed to if I just started at a hundred, I did maybe a hundred reps of the same thing.

It's not gonna be the same as if I took my time with it and then just did ten reps at a hundred percent

SHAWN STEVENSON: It makes sense, man. Again, it's a different way of looking at it because I think, and I know this as well, we want to be able to not think, right? And to just have this freedom of movement. And so I think it's kind of paradoxical that we would want to really be intentional and know about the movement that we're doing.

And that's kind of like, I don't ... It's, it's, it's like saying, "I don't wanna know why I'm a genius. I just am. I just wanna be. I don't wanna know where this intelligence is coming from. I just wanna just experience it." But then what if something happens? What if you don't feel connected to that intelligence, right?

This is giving you the opportunity to actually know how it's working. This doesn't take away from your capacity to do it freely, right? As a matter of fact, this can unlock more capacity to do it freely. Does that make sense?

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Exactly. I think sometimes people confuse this with overthinking and overanalyzing, and it can definitely get into that territory, and I've been there before, where I was overthinking my movements.

I was thinking about all these biomechanical cues and making sure that my joint angles were correct and things like that. You can definitely get there, and it actually does become overthinking. But if you learn how to actually dial that back, clear your mind, and actually drop yourself into your body- Yeah

then you get the benefits that we're talking about.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Drop yourself into your body. That's such a great foundation for this. And so that standing meditation, i- is that the horse stance? Horse stance is a variation where you're in a lower, kind of deeper squat. Standing meditation, you're just very lightly squatted.

It's not, yeah, it's just your knees are bent a little bit. Your hands are out in front, and yeah, you just hold that position. Got it. So it's not like you're sitting on a horse. You don't gotta be that wide and that kind of challenging.

STEFAN DUVIVIER: No, no, no. Holding that for an hour or- It'd be crazy

even 10 minutes, that's impressive. That's really impressive. I mean, even the standing meditation, holding that for, most people can't do it for five minutes- Yeah ... without seeing excruciating pain and, and just really having a hard time with it.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. What I found the first time I did it was just a soft, like a soft kind of falling into my body, and it just felt really good to be there, and time just kinda went very quickly.

And we were talking about this before the show. The term is temporal expansion effect, right? And so in certain physical activity, so we've got some incredible science validating that we actually get more time, we have the experience of having more time when we are physically active. And so people have had some of these experiences sometimes maybe where the time seems very long, like maybe when they're on a treadmill or doing something they don't wanna do, or time goes very fast when you're doing something that you really enjoy.

But time can dial itself up or down. But basically, this is unlocking. Our brain is changing when we are being physically active. And our processing speed, that's one of the things, our processing speed increases, and the rate at which, these other things outside of us it's kind of, maybe like the Matrix, like a bullet time effect.

But again, the volume is turned down a little bit on that, of course, but it's a t- temporal expansion effect takes place. And so getting into that position for the first time and, s- closing my eyes and going within ch- I love that idea of dropping into my body. It just man, just time just slowed down.

It felt actually very comfortable for me at that time. I don't know, maybe it's the preparation. I don't know the, maybe certain ways that I train or whatever, but I felt very comfortable and I enjoyed it a lot, and it's something that now I do on a regular basis. I did before I trained today.

What would be- Mm-hmm ... the benefit of doing that standing meditation before you train?

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah, I have all my clients do that, and I do that for the most part as well. And what I find it does is, especially for people who are hard performing, they're successful in business and working really rigorous schedules in their career.

They tend to be a little bit up in their head to put it a certain way. And they need to, before they start training, shift that downwards into their body. And a lot of people don't do that. And they're on their emails, and they're listening to a podcast or to some really intense music or whatever it is, and they never actually get that reset.

They never actually come down into their body. They're just counting reps and just doing exercises that their trainer tells them to do or that an app tells them to do. And so they never actually settle into their body and never actually calm things down. And so they're just in this constant hamster wheel of go, go, go and being in their head.

So the standing meditation allows them to put a fork in that loop and really reset things to come down into their body, chill their mind out, and really start actually feeling what's going on in their body and again, developing that listening energy that we spoke about before, which does, going back to the whole time thing, it slows time down.

It allows you to actually see more clearly that time is really a construct in a lot of ways. I mean, that might sound a little bit far off, but as you were explaining, you can be in that standing meditation and the time goes by super slow and you're really uncomfortable. But on another day where maybe you're a little bit more stress-free or whatever it is, you have the same amount of time go by really quick, and it feels like you were there for two minutes when you were there for twenty

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Especially, and this is what I'm, I'm seeing us get to, is like stacking conditions for time to slow down for us. So the activity itself, a lot of us, we're not getting, we're not really getting what we are looking for in it, we're trying to decompress. We're trying to perform. We're trying to train and get the most out of our training.

But what tends to happen is we're missing out on our, quote, "gains." We're missing out on performance. We are sometimes creating the conditions where we have a higher risk of injury, right? Because we are not dropping into our bodies. And, one of the things that you talk about as well, and again, this like, I, regard- I'm gonna show up.

I'm that type of person. I'm gonna do my work, and I've always been like that. I'm very disciplined in what I do, and I see discipline as a beautiful thing, as just kind of like the structure in which my life container is held. But discipline could seem like a bad word for some people.

For me, it's beautiful. But you've also shared that sometimes discipline is the injury. So talk about that a little bit

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah, I think discipline can be the injury in the sense that a lot of high-performing people, a lot of people who have built their success on discipline, on being at a certain place at a certain time and making sure they do a certain task every single day, that can potentially bring about a certain monotony where you don't actually look at what you're doing anymore.

You don't actually involve yourself very deeply in the activities that you're doing. For instance, if you're doing the same bodybuilding split, you've done that same bodybuilding split for years, and you don't really change things up. You don't really... It's not even actually about changing things up.

You can be doing the same exercises. But because you're just stuck in this loop of discipline and you're not really focused on what you're doing on a deep level, you're just gonna be strengthening the same patterns over and over again. And if those patterns aren't really ones that you wanna be strengthening, well, then over time, that's going to lead to some issues popping up.

So I think that discipline is great, and I'm a huge proponent of discipline as well. But when it brings you to a place where you're just not really paying attention to what you're doing, that's where it can become the issue.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Amazing. All right. Let's get into some, some physical, tactical things, some insights regarding this.

Our bodies are so great at compensating to get things done. Our bodies find a way, but those compensation patterns can obviously set us up for some big problems. And there's a difference between knowing your compensations and actually changing them. We can do all the analysis in the world, and it's great to have that because a lot of times we don't even know.

We don't even know that our bodies are compensating. But once you identify that, to be able to actually get in there and do the work. So first of all, can you talk about what compensations are or compensation patterns? And then let's talk about actually how to change these compensation patterns.

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah, the way I see it is, the simplest way to put it is that compensation patterns are your body's way of getting things done even when it's not the most efficient way to get that thing done.

So there might be a certain pathway that you have injured, whether it was because you had a knee injury or you had a surgery or whatever it is, and it's causing your body to deviate from its normal way of doing that movement. And that might show up as excess tension in one area, whereas another area will just be completely dead and it'll just kind of be hanging on for the ride.

So that's how I see a compensation pattern and the way that we fix that is, number one, becoming aware of that issue. N- becoming aware of the fact that you're dead in one area and that another area is overworking. And also becoming aware of the fact that it's not just where you feel the pain or the tightness, but it could be somewhere completely different in your body that is actually contributing to the problem.

So being able to just go deeper and deeper into the problem. I think it was maybe Albert Einstein who was quoted as saying I might butcher this, but I think he said if he had an hour to solve a problem, he would spend fifty or fifty-five minutes just understanding the problem and then the rest of it coming up with the actual solution.

So I think it's just that the problem in a lot of ways will make the solution obvious in life and in your body. So just understanding the problem is probably the biggest thing, understanding the different things that contribute to it. And then from there- It's just doing basic movements. I really think that we can figure out a lot of these issues just by doing the main patterns that are traditional in conventional fitness.

The split squat, the squat, the hinge, the push, the pull. Learning how to do these movements with efficiency without your body breaking down into those compensation patterns, that's really all you need. I mean, of course, there are some supplementary exercises that you can add in that are a little bit more targeted for certain issues, but I think if you just really hone in on those patterns and master those patterns, you can really iron out any of those compensation patterns.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Yeah. And so we see this show up as, certain muscles being sleepy. Your glutes not firing correctly in certain movements. Ankle mobility creating a compensation to where you're using more of your lower back to try to squat, whatever the case might be. There's so many different ways that we try to do the thing, and you could pre- you could see it pretty easily, especially when somebody has the opportunity to work with somebody like yourself who...

And you also work with people virtually, by the way, and you can actually see the pa- immediately. Okay, this is what your body is doing. Trying to, okay, I know you think you're doing a squat, in a, in an advantageous way, but these are the things that are happening. Your body is compensating to create the illusion that you're doing this efficiently.

And then you can start to address those things. And so also within that, too, our ability to heal is that same capacity. You're like, well, especially in the environment of an injury or recovery. Two people that have the exact same injury on paper can ha- can heal radically differently, right?

And they can com- create compensations, right? So let's give an example of an MCL injury, for example, right? Somebody can have, two people, again, exact same injury on paper, same spot of the injury with the MCL, but one of them heals in a way that they are starting to maybe, their, their, their knee movement is now going inward, right?

And so even in their lunge pattern their lunge isn't in a position where it's a natural, strong position. So let's talk about that, how, how people can heal differently and in particular, the sensory receptors. 'Cause again, we just tar- we just think about that tissue. It's just this tissue, but there's so much more going on in the body.

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah, there's a lot going on there and a lot of different variables that could cause two people to have completely different healing experiences. But I think that the main thing that I see is the guarding that can come up. So guarding can help you, and it can hurt you in a certain way.

Guarding around that injury that comes up, your body's response to that injury to protect it, it can help you in the sense of you not being able to experience more movement through that tissue in, in, in a time where it's vulnerable. But it can also linger, and it can basically cause y-your body to stay protected around that joint.

And so now you're always avoiding movement through that tissue, and eventually that will reduce your options when it comes to movement. So instead of being able to move fully through that knee, now maybe I have to compensate somewhere else. Now maybe I have to hold a little bit more tension in one area to try and force movement in another area.

And so that guarding is really what you need to let go of. That guarding i-is really what you need to learn how to, to unwind and and relax yourself into to be able to get past that

SHAWN STEVENSON: Can you talk about the sensory receptors? What are those?

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah. So sensory receptors, I mean, there's multiple of them in your body.

A lot of different tissues in your body have sensory receptors, and they're essentially allowing you to sense your joint positioning, the tension in your muscles and all these different aspects of how your body is moving. And injuries dampen their ability to sense what's going on. And so when you have that dampened ability after an injury, then you're actually, funny enough, creating this cycle where you're more susceptible to an injury because your body isn't actually sensing what's going on.

Because it can't sense what's going on, it's going to default even further from its natural movement. So really, the game is bringing those sensory receptors back online, and the way that you do that is simply by directing your attention there. By directing your attention, it's almost as if you're telling your nervous system to draw resources to those receptors to bring them back online and allow them to work, as opposed to being up in your head all day.

So it- it's really just turning those sensory receptors on so that they can see how your body is moving inefficiently and then correct that, really from the inside out.

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This has me thinking about being that these are sensory receptors, they're sensing. They're sensing the environment. It's literally in the name, and we tend to think about it just on this very mechanical level. But that environment that we're creating is also based on the chemistry that we're creating based on our thinking, right?

We can dramatically change the chemistry that we're producing, psychoneuroendocrinology, psychoneuroimmunology. There's a cascade of chemicals, affecting our immune system, the hormones we're producing, our responsiveness with our tissues. Every single thought we have changes the chemistry in our bodies, and so we're really attuning to what our mental state is.

And so with this being said, we can do the same movement 1,000 times, 10,000 times, and it's completely fine. But one time it can be that time when you get injured. A great example of this is Luka Dončić this past season. And if you look at it and see the injury occurring on the film, it doesn't look like it's a very normal position for somebody to have a hamstring injury.

It didn't look very dramatic. It didn't look traumatic. It just, it just snapped. And one of the things that you have talked about is it isn't just this movement input. It isn't the load he's experiencing. It isn't the pressure situation. A possible contributing factor to something like that is also the life outside of the basketball and this overall stress container that we're carrying.

So let's talk about this relationship between stress and injuries

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah. So the way that I like to talk about this is how your mind and your body are not separate. Your thoughts, your emotions, and your physicality are actually three different parts of the same being. So a really good way to put this into context for people, 'cause that could be a little bit out there how I just explained that, is let's say you're nervous.

You're about to go in front of a pe-- a bunch of people to speak. You have nervousness that shows, like that's the emotion that we label, right? But what that really is, is a sensation of butterflies in your stomach. You see that movement in your stomach. That's the physical side of it. The thoughts are thoughts of, "Oh, what if I embarrass myself?

What if I say the wrong thing? What if I forget what I was supposed to say?" Whatever else. So those are three parts of the same thing, which is the nervousness. And so when you can see things like that, that none of these sensations or thoughts or emotions that we experience are just in their own silo and they're actually all connected, then you can see how it's really clear that emotions and stress can impact your body on a physical level and how your how your, your susceptibility to injury rates are

SHAWN STEVENSON: Can you talk about the Luka situation a little bit? Am I on the money here with this assessment potentially?

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah, I think so. I think so. And of course, I don't know Luka, and there's so many different factors that could be at play. But based on what I have seen about his life and how it may be very stressful to have his daughter move away from the States to go to Europe and all these other factors in his life, being traded away from the Mavericks to go to the Lakers without him even knowing about it until the last minute.

I mean, to be a superstar and not know about a trade is just crazy. That's usually unheard of. So all those little stresses can create these reactions in his body. They can create... I, I don't want to, to make really specific claims, but just as examples, he could be angry or frustrated, and that can create tension in his low back, let's say.

That can cause him to grip through his shoulders a little bit more. And because he has more tension up higher in his body, now maybe his glutes aren't working and firing as, as properly as they should, and then the load gets into the hamstrings. And in a very normal seemingly low-intensity movement, that's when the hamstring pops.

So again, that's just a really general example. I'm not saying that that actually happened with Luka because I would need to assess him and actually look at his body. But that could be just one way of explaining all the different ways in which he could experience an injury that don't necessarily have to do with his physical training.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Yeah, man. Thank you for sharing that. Again, these are things for us to all consider. We're not... This whole mind-body conversation is we, we gotta move past it because they cannot be... They're not separate. This is one entity. And so those life stressors absolutely influence your body's ability to perform, and so to take all of this into consideration, and this is why it's so valuable to be able to drop into our bodies and to pay attention to these things, and also to be able to mind and to check these boxes as well. Again, the life stuff and when sometimes it's very difficult to deal with and, we can possibly adjust our training based on what's going on in our lives.

And so again, we're adding We're adding things to our superhero utility belt today, and I'm curious because your, your utility belt is crazy. You've got so many different insights and tools. How, where did all this come from for you? Like, how, how did this happen? Like, how were you able to transform your thinking in this way and to be able to make the impact that you're making right now?

What's your superhero origin story?

STEFAN DUVIVIER: That's a really good question that I've thought about a lot recently. And I think that I've always just had this innate understanding or belief that we are much more capable than typical mainstream rehab or mainstream training gives us credit for. And I think that that led me to look in places that most other people wouldn't have looked because I just held a higher standard for what my body was supposed to be like.

And so speaking of superhero origin story, I think it really came about because I saw humans as superheroes. And so that's why, in a lot of ways, my mission is to super humanize society and allow people to see that they have these innate capabilities that they probably would have never thought of, but because they weren't looking in the right place.

And so it's really just about finding an instruction manual that makes sense across humans, instructing us on how we should relate with our bodies on a really deep level in order to get it to do the things that we want it to do. Of course, we've really maximized our minds, and with the advent of AI, we're going even further into that direction.

But I think there still lies a big gap in how we relate to our physical bodies. I think that's definitely behind where our, our mental faculties are at this day and age. And I don't know, maybe it was because, I, I think it was Descartes, the philosopher, who said, "I think, therefore I am." I could be wrong on that, so don't quote me there.

But yeah, I think that led to a whole cascade of identifying with the mind and really kind of dissociating from our bodies in a lot of ways. So I think turning that around and coming back into our bodies is, has been the theme of this whole conversation, I think is the way that we start reclaiming these physical superpowers that do translate into mental superpowers as well and really reclaim that freedom in our bodies that we started the conversation out talking about.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. You're a perfect, your life conditions and, your life qualifying you to do this work. I think it couples really well with the sport that you chose And, if you think about what are the most explosive or even again, these are just words but this might describe it, pretty well, violent sports, with things like javelin throwing but also high jumping has got to be up there because of the, the force that you are required to, to placing your, your, your body into the ground and exploding over, you know, to get over this bar and just all of the, the, the physical components of the body working in unison and just I would again, I could...

You can call this explosive. You can also call it very violent movement. But you having that as a training ground and your life conditions qualifying you because I would imagine that that's a sport where people experience quite a bit of injuries. And the same thing with again, think about javelin throwing.

When we think about violent sports, I think we then tend to think about contact sports. We're talking about the contact that you are making on you, like this is a whole different paradigm. So number one, why high jumping? Number two, what's the, what, what is your record? What is the highest jump that you've ever, that you've ever done?

And yeah, let's go with those one and two

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah, so my highest jump ever has been seven-three. Come on. That's two point two- You jumping over Wimby. Stop. Just hold on. That's crazy. That's crazy. Y- yeah, yeah. So that's my highest jump and I really just got into it because in high school my high jump coach at the time just pulled me in from basketball.

He saw me jumping and playing and was just like, "Yeah, you could have a career in high jump." So I wasn't good at first. I was actually far from it. I actually used to be, like, decently uncoordinated, actually, when I was younger. But got my my, my practice in and learned the actual sport and it actually became something that I got pretty good at.

So I think that one of the main things that I got from being a pro high jumper for a few years is the relationship between what I'm doing in my life outside of training and what ha- actually happens in training. So for instance, last year the last year that I was high jumping I was working really, really hard not only in training.

That, that was probably the most training volume I'd ever had. I mean, I'm talking three to four-hour days, six days a week, lifting, track work, and then also looking at film. But aside from that, I was also working really hard in my business as well. So once I got home from training, I would be working on my laptop, sitting, maybe recording some content.

And same thing before too. The first couple hours of the day I would go straight to work. And so what I found was that all the tension and, and stress that was created while I was working translated right to my training. It's not like just because I started training, just because I walked on the track, all of that stuff just disappeared.

No, I could literally feel as I was doing work, I would feel my shoulders tighten. I would feel my neck get a little bit stiff. I would feel my hips tighten up. All these different little areas of my body just accumulating tension and emotional stress came with it. Going back to what I was saying about how tension isn't just tension, there's an emotional and a mental layer to it too.

And so that translated into me not performing as well. I was stiffer in in, in my, in my jump training, and I wasn't able to be as elastic and fluid. Of course, I, I had came leaps and bounds further than I had the first few years of, of being a pro and also running my business, but it just became more evident last year because of the extreme workload that I put on myself

SHAWN STEVENSON: Man, this is incredible, man. Incredible. I'm still just blown awa- if people just understand how high that is, it's cra- your back is basically parallel to the ground at, at some point. You're parallel to the ground jumping over Wemby is unbelievable, man. That's incredible. Something happened in 1977 that completely changed fitness and athleticism as we know it.

Most of us are just living in this culture, and we don't know where it came from. What happened in 1977?

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah, so bodybuilding became popularized. So bodybuilding, a sport that was really all, well, not was, but is all about aesthetics, how you're looking, how your body is positioned, and your muscle symmetry and all those things.

That's what the sport is built on, but it has nothing to do with how you're actually moving, how you're performing in other contexts besides just aesthetics. And so because of I forget the name of the move, the movie that Arnold Schwarzenegger starred in that-

SHAWN STEVENSON: Pumping Iron ...

STEFAN DUVIVIER: yeah, that made him popular in the first place.

That was what really set everything off. And from there, gyms started putting mirrors and these specific machines that are meant to isolate certain muscles, and that really just shifted the culture of training all the way up until now. I mean, that really wasn't that long ago. That was what? Like f- I guess 50 years ago now 40 years ago, whatever.

But yeah, that really shifted the culture all the way up till now, where you see gyms still have a lot of these same equipments and the mirrors so that you can see how you look and how your body is placed and all these things. And that really impacts the way that people are training for performance.

They think that because they see that this is the typical fitness culture, they think that that equates to the right type of training for their sport. And so they just, all the time they're doing bodybuilding splits, the upper, lower push and all, all these things. So I think it's just once you are able to understand where that came from, then you can start exploring different modes of training that actually align more with your goals.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Exactly. This is the difference between training for performance, training for athleticism, training for doing the things that you actually wanna do with your body versus training like a bodybuilder who occasionally does something athletic. And we know that recipe typically leads to a higher rate of injuries as well.

And so this is my question for you: How can someone look fit but repeatedly have their body break down when it's expected to perform in athletic ways?

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Man, I mean, I've seen this all the time. Almost all of my clients have six-packs, and that doesn't mean that they weren't susceptible to all of the injuries and the breakdown that they started working with me for.

And what I see is that, yes, they were able to achieve a high level of fitness. They were able to do all of the things that it took to make sure that their body fat was low and that they had good endurance and that they were strong in a certain way. But they weren't actually able to get to the root of what really keeps people resilient, which is how they're moving and how you relate to your body.

And so I think that the biggest thing is really just, again, going back and seeing that the bodybuilding era has such a strong hand in the way that we train, and really being able to rewrite that script to go back and realize that the way that I look really doesn't actually matter for sport. I mean, you see high jumpers.

The-- one of the best guys, one of the best high jumpers ever is named Barshim. And he is, to put it the simplest way, he, he's a stick. He's a tiny stick. He, he has no muscle definition. He's not big. He's not, you know-- He doesn't look strong. He just looks like a normal guy.

SHAWN STEVENSON: He looks like Shaggy. Let's just call it what it is. Yeah. He looks like Shaggy from Scooby-Doo.

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So you can see that and understand just from his appearance that it has nothing to do with the way that he's performing, besides him being low body fat, which is important for high jump. Other than that, he doesn't look w- like what our perception of athletic is.

SHAWN STEVENSON: This is such a great insight because if our goal in our sport is bodybuilding, and that's what we're doing it for, it- that's a wonderful place to be and to train in that fashion. But what it's done, the, that, that culture and that belief about strength training, and it's been this bodybuilder paradigm, and that's basically bled into all domains when it comes to strength training.

That's changing more now, of course there's more sport-specific training, but that's, that's really recent when that has started to change in the culture. And so, and I know this is a very tough question that I'm about to ask you because, again, if we're looking at things that are sport-specific, right?

But w- with that being said, and us being able to utilize the benefits of strength training, are there any specific exercises or ways of exercising that, for those of us who want to just, who b- wanna be able to play, to be athletic, whether that's playing basketball, whether that's playing ultimate Frisbee, whether that's, getting out there and playing a few hours of golf.

Are there some specific exercises or modalities or ways of training that you would recommend for everybody to do?

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah, that's a really good question. And we could probably have a whole 'nother podcast on just that topic. But I think The biggest thing is understanding that you don't need a lot. It's just like Bruce Lee said I might butcher this quote, but, "I don't fear the man who's practiced 1,000 kicks. I f- I fear the man who has practiced one kick 1,000 times or 10,000 times," whatever it is.

So it's the same thing with your movement. You don't need all these fancy movements, all these functional exercises that are out there. Of course, it can be cool to provide you with a little bit of a new stimulus and make things fun and keep things fresh, but ultimately, the biggest thing is just picking a specific set of movements, making sure that you have enough movement variability that you're not just hammering the same patterns over and over again, and just stick to those movements.

Maybe variations of those patterns, like with a lunge, maybe I might do just a regular dumbbell lunge with the dumbbells to the side. But then maybe after a few weeks of doing that, I might have the dumbbells up in front of me in this front curled position, and then maybe I might do an overhead barbell lunge and just keep on rotating through the variations like that to keep things a little bit fresh.

But I'm still working on that fundamental pattern of lunging. And so as long as you can just keep getting better at these different patterns, you're going to continue seeing improvements in, in your sport, in your ability to be resilient, in whatever it is. So I would say the biggest thing is stick to a wide variety of patterns that exercise your entire body, not isolating one muscle at a time, and just keep on refining your understanding and your movement in those specific patterns.

And over time, that's what's going to lead to the outcomes that we all want in terms of freedom o- in our body.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I love it. I love it. Thinking about patterns. So lunge pattern, obviously very important. Life skill, squat pattern, push pattern, pull pattern twisting pattern, throwing pattern. Just thinking about it in those terms.

And there's a diversity of exercises that can be done within that, but just sticking to the basics like that foundation, one kick 1,000 times. Get really good at that, and then you'll find that, when you do the other versions or iterations or variations, it translates a lot, a lot easier, and you can get a little bit of different input with that.

And, it also keeps it fresh. But we're, we're not thinking about that in terms of the, the freshness with that. We're thinking about inhabiting our bodies. We're thinking about it in terms of really building a, a good foundation and this body awareness, this connectivity under load that we can then utilize in the things that we really wanna do.

Outside of the gym. And so man, this is so, so powerful, man. So refreshing

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Exactly, yeah. I like to think of it as a feedback loop. So the way that you lunge is going to inform you of movement in a particular way because you're in a slowed down environment, and there are so many variables that are much different from your actual sport.

That's gonna teach you a certain thing about your body and your movement, but then when you actually go and do your sport and you sprint and run and cut and all those things, that's gonna show you a completely other perspective in terms of how you move and how you organize your body. So you do the lunge, you understand more about your body, then you implement that when you sprint, and then you sprint and you learn another insight about your body, and then you go and implement that back into your lunge.

Mm. And it's just this constant feedback loop where you're in the gym in a controlled environment working in the lab, and then you go and access that in your sport and vice versa.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Man, incredible. Incredible. First of all, thank you so much for doing this work, and being able to make this accessible.

I, I think you're one of the most valuable teachers on these platforms. There's a lot of noise, there's a lot of flashy items. You got the flash, right? Like in the real world. You could dunk on people. You could jump over Wimby. Like you've got the flash, but you're, you're teaching from such a confident and balanced place, and you're directing us to ourselves, and that is one of the most valuable things that you could do for humanity right now.

And so I highly encourage people to, to follow you, follow your work. How can people connect with you? Where can they follow you and all that good stuff?

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Yeah. Where I'm most active right now in the moment is Instagram @air, like what we breathe, and then Duvi, D-U-V-I. And then you can go to my website at mindyourmovement.fitness

SHAWN STEVENSON: There you have it. Man, thank you so much. Like even right now in our, we were talking about time and this temporal time expansion and, time being this construct. Right now as we're doing this, you're t- you're on tomorrow. You're in another part of the world right now. You're on tomorrow, and I'm, I'm here at a different time, different part of the planet.

But we're able to connect, and this is like beyond anything that we could have even imagined. And this is the right use of this technology, and I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful for you getting up earlier on your time. I'm staying late on my time because this is so valuable and so special, man. So I, I, I really do appreciate it.

STEFAN DUVIVIER: Most definitely. I appreciate you, and things just lined up the right way to, for us to meet and then for us to do this. And I really hope that we're able to continue spreading the message, and really, like you said, helping humankind just get back to themselves and look within.

SHAWN STEVENSON: There you have it.

I appreciate you so much, man. Have a great one. Thank you. Thanks, Shawn. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this. And do yourself a favor. Go to Instagram right now and follow Stef. I'm telling you, his videos are incredibly insightful every single time.

Aha moments. All right? So his handle again is airduvi. So that's A-I-R-D-U-V-I. And of course, take a screenshot of this episode, tag him, and tag me as well. I'm @shawnmodel, and I'll be on the lookout to see the love and to share this love with Steph. I know that it would mean the world to him. And it, it means the world to me for you to say yes to growing, to learning, to being a part of a community that's dedicated to being our best selves and to being of service.

And so it really does mean the world to me, and I'm telling you, I have so much more greatness in store for you. We've got some amazing world leading experts and powerful masterclasses heading your way very, very soon, so make sure to stay tuned. Take care, have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon.