SHAWN STEVENSON: Welcome to the Model Health Show. I've got a question for you. Are champions born or are they made? Are successful people just successful by birthright? Is it in their DNA to be successful, or is it something more? Is it a matter of the conditions that they've had to endure to figure things out? We've got this nature versus nurture conversation, and there's no better person, I'm telling you, to provide us with the answer to this question than today's special guest.

To say that greatness is in her DNA is an understatement, but you're gonna be shocked to find out how messy things were for her and how her life could have gone in a totally different direction. But those qualities that we might have within us, our gifts, our talents, our capacities, are very often dormant until we have the right conditions for those things to manifest, for those things to develop.

And so today's episode is not just about our success, it's about the success of our children. Today, you're going to have access to the mindset of a real champion, an undefeated, undisputed champion, and to hear the inner battle that even she had to endure, that she had to figure out, and what qualities, what insights we can take and add to our own lives when things get challenging, what we can tap into to help us to figure things out and to achieve our ultimate goals.

What is the mindset that we can borrow, that we can have access to when things get so difficult that we might wanna give up? What is the mindset when that challenge is in front of you, and it might feel like it's just you against the world? Now, you against the world could be true, but it can also be a perception.

You're also gonna discover the importance of our mentors, of our community, of our social circles in helping us to achieve true success. And not only that, our special guest is going to reveal her age, which a lot of women don't even do that. Let's just keep it 100, all right? And you're probably going to be shocked because the vitality, because of the youthfulness that our special guest is expressing is just remarkable.

And she's going to give us the tea. She's going to give us her secrets on the health side, on the beauty side, and it's pretty amazing. It's pretty simple as well. It's not as complex as you might think, but some of these things just really hit me like, "Oh man, like that's something that I need to pay more attention to myself."

And so we're gonna cover so much, but again, at the core of this is keeping in mind the impact and the importance of helping our children to get access to this information. Our children today, more than ever, are struggling with identity, are struggling with developing certain character traits, struggling with even having the conditions to where these dormant capacities can even be expressed.

And so being able to provide this information, not just for ourselves, but for the people that we care about, is absolutely important. Now, one really special thing that I had access to on multiple occasions is our special guest is an amazing chef. As a matter of fact, the cooking show Chopped, cooking competition show Chopped on the Food Network, our special guest won that show twice.

Twice. And having the experience of being able to sit down and enjoy her food is something that not many people on this planet have had the ability to do, and I'm so grateful for that. And she's very, very adamant about food quality, the food sourcing, and also being intelligent about, especially when you got a family, that budget when it comes to food.

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to take advantage. Again, that's wildpastures.com/model to take advantage. And now let's get to our special guest and topic of the day. Laila Ali is an undefeated boxing world champion, International Boxing Hall of Famer, wellness advocate, entrepreneur, and bestselling author. Through Laila Ali Lifestyle, she shares her personal approach to nourishing the body, strengthening the mind, and creating sustainable habits that support lasting health and wellbeing.

Let's dive in this conversation with the incredible Laila Ali. I don't use this term lightly. This is reserved for the very few. I've got a true legend with me today. I have the one and only Laila Ali. Welcome to the show.

LAILA ALI: Thank you. So nice to see you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Of course. Anytime I get to talk to you is a blessing, and to be able to share your experience, your insights with everybody, I'm fired up.

And I'm grateful I get to talk to you offline, of course, but I'm excited to be able to share your insights today. And I've got a question to help kick everything off. You know, if anybody knows about being a champion, it's you. So my question, this is a big question, are champions born or are they made?

LAILA ALI: That is a very good question, and I think it can go either way. It's a little bit of both. I don't think there's a wrong or a right answer. Take someone like me, right? Born Muhammad Ali's daughter. I've got his DNA, and I ended up becoming an actual world champion Hall of Fame fighter. But at the same time, it took a lot of work.

You know, I wasn't just born this way, so to speak, right? I had to actually, first of all, find boxing on my own. Um, a lot of people think that I followed my father, um, into the ring 

literally like, "Dad, I wanna be a boxer." It didn't happen that way. I didn't wanna box until I saw women's boxing on television, and that sparked something in me that was always there lying dormant, um, even though I didn't know.

And when I saw it, I wanted to do it, and of course, I had to go to the gym and learn how to train like a fighter, eat like a fighter, sleep like a fighter, um, you know, think like a fighter, and perform like a world champion. So it took a lot of work. Um, and I think that obviously we see most fighters aren't born to the greatest of all time, and they become world champions.

So I think that, um, it could be a little bit of both, but definitely I would say, you know, made more so

SHAWN STEVENSON: I love this. And again, if anybody knows, it's you. So this was a question of like nature versus nurture that we're always examining. You know, you might have some genetic cards stacked in your favor in a way, or sometimes they're stacked against you.

And, you know, many of the greatest of all time in, you know, other regards or other sports, they don't necessarily have those genetic cards. You know what I mean? One of the top people right now, Jalen Brunson Right? He just won the NBA championship, uh, MVP of the finals. He's a small guy, you know, comparatively, significantly below average in the NBA, and he just has mastered his craft, his ability to get the things done that he wants to do in that domain.

And so in your domain, I wanna ask you specifically about some of the qualities that you worked on. You know, naturally that you might have had, you know, some capacities and talents and gifts, but what are the things that really made you successful? What are those qualities that Laila Ali had that you believe helped to make you successful in that domain?

LAILA ALI: Well, I definitely walked into the gym with a certain level of confidence in myself, and it wasn't the confidence of, "Oh, I know everything." It was, "Oh, I can learn everything. I can work hard and gain the skills that I need to become the very best." So, but some people, um, stop themselves before even walking in the gym, and come in with a negative attitude like, "Oh, I'll never be able to do this," or, "So and so, um, you know, has a leg up on me," or whatever the case.

I came in there with the right mindset, and, um, you know, I think some of us are naturally more confident than others. I, I definitely think I got that, um, from my dad, so to speak. But, um, I had the physical build, um, of an athlete, um, meaning I had to lose about 30 pounds. I was... You know, I had some extra fat on my body, but in terms of what I wanted to do, for what I was born to do, to be a fighter.

I never understood why my hands were so big, right? It was like, I can't fit jewelry, I can't fit rings off the rack. But then when I walked to the gym, I was like, "Oh, okay, I'm knocking people out with these hands." It made sense. So physically for my size, I fought at 168 pounds. Um, and I had a really good build for that, that weight class.

I was very strong physically. And what I had to work on, of course, was just all of the knowledge, um, that comes with being a fighter, learning the game. You know, you have to work on your eyes, your distance, your, your speed. Um, you know, and then be able to do it over and over and over again because it's not always fun, you know?

And the same thing I tell my son now with his baseball, you know, how many reps do you have to get in of hitting that ball off the tee? It's not fun. It wasn't fun throwing a million right hands until I perfected it to the point where I didn't even have to think about it anymore. And this can be applied to pretty much anything you do, whether it's in sports or outside of it.

When you get to the point where you don't have to think and you can just flow, that's when you really master something.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Mm. That's so good. So good that I wanna ask you about that because again, a lot of times people might see somebody like yourself and just think like, you know, she just has it. You know, she's just like, she's so passionate about this thing and, you know, she's going to, um, do whatever it takes.

And not understanding that there's a conversation that also goes on in your head as well. And so I wanna ask you about that mindset when you're training for a fight, if you could. How do you handle that conversation in your mind when you're training and things get difficult? I think there's a quote, and I'm probably going to butcher this a little bit, from your dad about him, not counting the sit-ups until it starts burning.

That's when he starts counting. If, if it takes 50 to get to the point it starts burning, that's when you start counting. What is your mindset like? What is the conversation going on in your mind when you're training?

LAILA ALI: I, um, obviously retired from boxing in 2007, but I remember it like it was yesterday because training camp was the hardest part about boxing.

The fight was fun. You know, the fight was fun. It was the moment. You know, you come prepared. I mean, it was fun for me. I, I was doing the winning. I wasn't getting beat up. But it wa- it was really fun for all of us though, regardless. You go into it, you know, excited. But To have to go to the gym, um, and a lot of times, especially if you're someone who really trains at an elite level, because there's levels to this, as with anything else.

Some people just go to the gym and they're thinking, "Oh, I'm just gonna get in shape and work out." I was going to the gym thinking, "What can I improve upon that I need to improve upon from yesterday?" Just from the day before. Because I had a team around me, which I had put in place, that understood that we all had the same mission, and that was to get better and better and keep winning.

So even if I won my last fight, I'm gonna look at the fight, dissect it, look at the things that I need to work on that my opponent may not have even, you know, caught, right? So that the next person won't be able to catch me. So I was always pretty much in the mindset of I'm, I'm training, I'm fighting against myself because I was my bit- biggest critic.

So going in the gym, you might be sore, you might be tired, you might've had a bad day. You had things going on in your life. To be able to compartmentalize all of that into this moment, to have the most efficient workout possible and continually improve. And when you think about someone who's undefeated, who, you know, I ended my career 24 and 0, 21 knockouts.

Um, I had a lot of celebration going on all the time, right? By, by the public. But me and my team were like, "Uh-uh. We're gonna work on this." Right? So exactly. So we would constantly look at tape. Never comparing myself to others. I don- I, I didn't need to do that. It was always about me. And a lot of times in my, after my fights, even if someone was to study me, I wasn't happy a lot of the times after the fight.

I was hard on myself. I wasn't jumping up for joy because just 'cause I won or just 'cause I stopped someone because I'm like, I knew that was gonna happen, but I knew when I did or didn't perform to the level that I needed to perform at or do the things that I needed to do. Um, so, you know, like I said, it's, it's different, but it takes a lot of focus.

It takes a lot of determination. It takes a lot of being able to be honest with yourself and realizing that all great athletes, if we're talking about sports, all great athletes Are hard on themselves and never just think they're at their, the top of their game at all times, 'cause how are you gonna c- continue to strive to get better?

There's nothing wrong with, with that, you know, of knowing that you need to make improvements.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. We're talking about championship territory now. We're talking about the mindset of a champion. And so yes, we have acknowledgement and appreciation for the accomplishments, but we don't become complacent, right?

Exactly. It's just, it's amazing to think that in your training, again, like this could be a month into it and you got all this stuff. You're, you're tired and your mind is tired, and you're like, "I am going to get better than I was yesterday. How can I get better than the day before?" And having people around you, this is another key about this that's so easily overlooked because a sport like boxing, combat sports, this is one of the most pr- you know, uh, primary examples of being in there by yourself, what it looks like to be by yourself.

But it's really a conglomeration of experiences and your team and the work you put in. And also, they're with you there, that energy and in spirit, you know? So how important is it to be intentional about the people you have around you, you know, about your team, and also in life as well? How important is that?

LAILA ALI: So important. You can't even underestimate. In life in general, um, but especially in sports because you have to have honesty around you. That's one, as an athlete, because you have to have somebody from the outside looking in. It's the same as in a marriage, right, in a friendship, all of that. Sometimes we have our own perspective of things that does not actually what it is, right?

So, and, you know, it's hard. That's why it's always great to have someone from the outside that'll be honest with you because, you know, some athletes, some people in general just start feeling themself. You know what I mean? And they can get to be a little delusional, uh, t- you know, to an extreme at some point, or too hard on themself as the opposite.

'Cause I, for one, was somebody they, that you would have to... It was the opposite. Like, "No, you're doing good." And I'm like, "It's not good enough." I mean, I had days I was crying in the gym 'cause I would get mad because, number one, I'm sparring guys that are bigger than me, stronger than me most of the time. Um, you know, uh, more experienced than me, other world champions, but I'm expected to do so much better than I'm doing against them.

So it's like you gotta, you know, at least take that into consideration. Like, you didn't think you were gonna get in here and just whoop on this guy, you know, did you? So, but if I feel like I'm getting hit more than I need to, and I hear my corner yelling more like, "Move your head, move your head. Stop getting hit with the right hand," and I might just be having a bad day, and I keep getting hit with that right hand, I know I'm not doing something right.

So I wanna be in control in the ring. If I feel like I'm not in control of a situation, I don't care who it is, it doesn't feel good. So those are like a, that's a, that's a very extreme bad day. But then you have to be able to go back home, regroup, and come back the next day and still feel like, you know what?

I can do better. It was a bad day, and keep moving. And a lot of people have a hard time getting over that. And if you don't have the right team around you to help get your mind right, right, and help you see things for as they were and be like, "Okay, we're gonna work on this tomorrow. It's all good," you know?

Or if you're not really doing that well, and you have a team making you feel like you are, you know, maybe you're not gonna... You might be one of those who has a tendency to think too highly of yourself, right? And you have people egging you on. They're not gonna pull your, your skirt and be like, "Hold up."

You know, it doesn't help you in the long run. So especially in a sport like boxing. Because boxing, you definitely have a team around you, and you do it with your team, but when you get in that ring and that bell rings, it's just you. Your team can't fight for you. Your team can't come save you. There's another person in there trying to take your head off, you know?

And there's a lot of times that I went into the ring where I wasn't healthy. I had a lot going on in my private life nobody knew. I didn't perform 50% of what I could do, but I won, and it never felt good. You know what I mean? So I might not be celebrating after the fight, but that's also a strong mindset to be o- able to go in there, compartmentalize, have my team be like, "Okay, this is it.

You know, get your mind right, go fight, win, get the W, and go home." You know what I'm saying?

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Yeah. If you could If right now es- especially, you know, we have a lot of just division, you know? Um, whether it's from, you know, uh, other people, friend groups. You know, there's a lot more isolation and loneliness even.

You know, it's kind of an epidemic. And by default a lot of people, you know, turning to social media and things like that for kind of getting those inputs, feeling like a part of the community, and th- that's, that can be a good supplement, you know? But a lot of times also our relationships are by default with the people who are around us, you know, whether this is 

in a school setting, work setting, that kind of thing as well.

And right now it's especially concerning for children, and this is one of those areas where you're pointing your focus is to help to empower our kids and educate our kids. And you've got a new incredible project as well that we're gonna talk about, this children's book that is amazing. I can't wait to get this for everybody.

Thank you. All the people that I know that got kids, aspiration of kids, that like kids, this is gonna be a quintessential part of, you know, gift-giving for me. But I wanna ask you first and foremost about some insights that you can give for young people, right? Because you've, your story is not what people think.

It could look like you were laid out, you had a bed of roses laid out for you to get- Mm-hmm ... into that position. But you had a lot of struggles growing up, and there was even a time you, you were sent to a group home. Mm-hmm. You know? As well. Can you talk for the young people, and also parents as well, about the importance of having good people around you and supportive people around you to help you to get to where you want to be in life?

LAILA ALI: Absolutely. So as you said, I got into trouble growing up. Um, I had this fire inside of me, and I didn't, I had a lot of anger inside of me. I actually wrote about it in my first book, Reach: Finding Strength, Spirit, and Personal Power, and that book was written more for older, older girls, like 12 and up. This current book that I'm coming out with is A Spark of Greatness.

It's for four to eight-year-olds. But for parents, um, you know, I didn't necessarily grow up with the kind of structure and family foundation that people would've thought I had and, um, that I've intentionally created for my own children, and there were a lot of things that I had to figure out along the way, and I went through a lot of challenging periods as a child because I just didn't understand, you know, what I was feeling or how to express it.

Um, and that's really what inspired me to write this book. Um, but I wanna encourage children, I mean, obviously four to eight year olds are not thinking about what we're talking about right now, 'cause this isn't... I'm not speaking about these things in the book as my story. But I want parents to understand the importance of nurturing their children young, nurturing that spark or that fire, directing them in the right way.

'Cause my parents, my dad was busy saving the world. My mom was busy. She didn't really realize what was going on and where I was headed before it was too late. Um, and I don't want that to happen to anyone else. So definitely I had a lot of the wrong kids around me that got me into trouble, and that happened because I didn't have that connection with my parents for them to really know what was going on, you know, in, in my life.

And as a child, it wasn't as much of an issue. But then when you turn into a, a preteen, a teen, and you start hanging out and going out into the world, I started getting into trouble, you know? And if you're around the wrong people, you're susceptible to that. And because I was kinda like this rebel without a cause and wouldn't back down from the fight...

a fight, I would not back down from a fight. I wouldn't start 'em, but I wouldn't back down from one. It got me in trouble, you know? And it was just a downward spiral. So yeah, ha- you and I know just from, um, the way we live our lives and the people that we have in our lives, how we pour into each other, how energy is a whole thing.

If you're around people that are... You know, this is for adults. If you're around people who are complaining all the time, or wanna listen to you, or drag you into gossip, or drag you into negative conversation, or focus on all the bad things that are happening in the world, you would just feel like, man, the world is such a bad place.

It's horrible. And it's really not. So each of us can have a whole different experience in our life, right? Depending on what our focus is. So we got two exact same people in the same situation, but they wake up with a different vibe and a different, a different thought, right? There's always been, quote-unquote, "bad people."

There's always been negative people. There's always been horrible things going on and change going on. But if you truly believe that God is in charge at the end of the day, and we were all put here at this time, at this time While all of this is happening, while the world is changing so quickly, we're put here for a reason, and we don't have any control over certain things.

So I like to make sure I'm on the right side, I'm being positive, I'm pouring into others, allowing others to pour into me, and controlling the things that I can control, and that is what comes out of my mouth, the energy that I'm putting off, what I'm pouring into my children, how I uplift others, how I surround myself, right?

I'm never gonna feel burdened to have to join certain movements, certain causes, certain things that don't resonate with me, that maybe I don't understand. 'Cause we are living in a time where you gotta double ch- check, fact check everything, 'cause a cause that seems like a good cause might not even be a good cause because the people that are behind.

So you know what I'm saying? I'd rather just not even get involved, and that doesn't have to make you feel like you're not doing something. So I think that, like I said, it really is important, you know, who you're around because it helps shape your mindset and it, it, your outlook on things and the energy that you're carrying, right?

And I try to say, "You know what? Don't get bitter, get better." Yeah. Because a lot of things will make you bitter. You know, you might have a certain interaction with somebody, and then it changes who you are, so how you start treating other people. You have to wipe the slate clean and keep going. You learn, you know, you l- but you, you don't, you don't forget what happened, but you don't carry that with you.

So, and if what I'm saying right now sounds foreign to somebody, if they're listening to what I'm saying like, "What is she talking about?" That is a sign that maybe you need to change the, um, people that you've been around because the way that I'm talking resonates with everybody in my circle. You know what I mean?

But it's like... And I can listen to someone and think, "Man, what are they saying? Like, that doesn't resonate with me at all." But then they have a group behi- people with them going, 

"Yeah, yeah, yeah." So we all have our people, you know what I mean? So it's like, what are you gonna allow your experience to be?

Because you really do get to choose in this life. You get to choose all of that. So I like to focus, like I said, I know I went off on a tangent, but I like to focus on the things that I can control, because otherwise I'll lose my mind And a lot of people have lost their mind.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

LAILA ALI: You know? And they have because they just, they don't have that grounding in life, you know, and you gotta have that basic grounding where you don't feel like you don't have anything to hold onto, you know?

And it's, if you do, and if you feel that way, then you do need to try to find a community of people who can help uplift, support you, and help you see things for as they really are.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I would identify growing up being more, you know, a lone wolf type energy, you know? I could, you know, I could catch a vibe with different people, different groups or whatever, but I was just more so to myself.

And little did I know how impactful it was, you know, for the, you know, the calling that I had on my life and, and my spirit, my intentions. I had no idea that it would be with and through other people, you know? And so I had to make that change in my life and my mindset, and be very intentional about the people that I was around, especially when it comes to my family, right?

And so this is another thing I see with you is like, you don't mess with a lot of people. You're very intentional of who you are around, who your family is around. But you are one of the most generous people I've ever met as well. Just like, you want to give, you want to love on people, you want to uplift and pour into people, like you just said.

I've seen it firsthand in the real world. And also the same thing, y- it's an exchange, you know what I mean? And so you qualify people and you're very good at it, and I, and I love this, and it just speaks to your wisdom and your experience. You know, because we grew up both with this, this kind of, uh, tagline that would be said that you're a product of your environment.

We're a product of our environment. But it always seemed to come in a negative context, you know? But us being aware, we're also creators of our environment. We get to choose. We have so much power to choose, and oftentimes we just either we don't realize it or we're giving that power away, you know? And so this is just one of the many lessons that I'm grateful to be able to pass along to parents and also to, you know, I'm very passionate about children's education as well.

And so when I was reading your book- And I immediately had this feeling of being back in elementary school, in the school library, picking this book up off the shelf. It is that kind of vibe and, and the beauty of it as well, you know, the, the, the, the, um, design of the book, the layout, the artwork, oh my God, and also the messages.

And so I just wanna ask you, what inspired you to write this new children's book? A Spark of Greatness is the name of the book, by the way.

LAILA ALI: Yes. Well, um, as I mentioned, I have one book that I wrote that went a lot deeper on, you know, my journey to becoming a fighter when I talked about getting in trouble, and going to juvenile hall, and going to group home, and just why I was angry.

I'm not gonna put all that in a, a book for four to eight-year-olds. This book is more so like a biography. Like, you pick it up and say, "Oh, Muhammad Ali's daughter's a boxer," and you know, how she became a boxer. So that story is there, and it was really, um... We'd be really careful about how we were going to keep it honest, right?

And really teach a lesson within the book, or a child at four, four to eight doesn't feel like that's what they're getting out of it. But I really want children to close the book and feel excited about discovering what makes them uniquely them, because I discovered it, and I think it's surprising to a lot of people when they learn that no, I didn't become a boxer simply because my father was Muhammad Ali.

I remember when I started boxing, I was like, "I'm not following his footsteps." It was like, because it didn't feel like I was, but it's like, "Girl, please, your daddy's the greatest of all time. You're following his footsteps." So I can say that now, but it was because when I saw women's boxing on television, so I remember, um, you know, that moment and how I was inspired by those two women, and how powerful that is to see someone who looks like you or who has something in common with you that, you know, something about them resonates with you, to see them doing it and to spark something in you, which is why I'm so conscious of how I carry myself for young girls.

I mean, I would act a whole nother kind of way if I could, if I didn't have to worry about, you know, children watching me because I don't wanna put that out there for kids, you know? So I'm always very conscious of that, because I'm still a fighter is what I'm saying. So you might catch me on a certain day and you'll hear a whole different conversation, right?

But for children, I want them to know that they have something special in them. Everyone has something unique, and I, I showed the work that it took, you know, when... And that's why we ask the question in the book, are fighters born or made? Because yeah, I was Muhammad Ali's daughter, but I was not an athlete.

I didn't participate in sports. I didn't know that I had it in me until I saw women's boxing, and I did it on my own. My father didn't even want me to do it. In fact, he told me not to do it. So that was a very beautiful scene in the book as well. Um, and so much of the story is told by the illustrations.

Cosby Cabrera was, is an amazing artist. Um, I, I handpicked her to do the book, and there's so much warmth and so much detail, um, and we worked together so closely to bring that all to life because I wasn't even aware, uh, when I started the prod- project, that there would be so few words on the page. So, um, we kept having to dwindle it down smaller...

S- I mean, less and less and less words. And I was like, "How are we gonna tell this story?" So she was able to help me really, um, you know, bring the words that I ended up with, um- on the page to life with her illustrations, and it was really beautiful. So, um, you know, but for parents, because parents are the ones that are gonna buy the children the book.

And like for my audience, um, you know, I've been offering my activity guide because I want them to have affirmations and conversation starters to, you know, help, you know, recognize that spark in their children. And not that they have to get into trouble like I did or anything like that, but I know for my own daughter that she's still trying to figure out what she wants to do in life, and then she's nervous about that.

She's like, "Well, what if I don't go to college?" Or, "What if I don't... I don't know what I wanna do." I'm like, "Sweetie, you don't have to have it all figured out. Just be open to try new things. Just know that you can do it." Like she says to me, "Oh, my, this new AP class that I have..." She has a AP class for the first time, and I didn't do that well in school, so thank God for Curtis, my husband, 'cause I'm like, "Don't ask me, ask him."

But, um, she like, "I have a AP class and it's so hard, and it- I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do it." I said, "Well, are the other kids doing it?" "Yes." I said, "Well, then you can do it. Okay? You're not the first one to do it. You're not discovering something for the first time, and even then you could do it.

But you, you know it can be done, so we're just gonna have to drill down." So I just try to redirect her mind away from I can't, I can't, I can't, to I can. Doesn't mean you're gonna be perfect at it, right? Just be open to discovering new things. So I hope to inspire children. I hope to inspire parents, because we learn a lot through our children, as we know.

And I didn't have, like I said, that foundation, um, of... And my dad was off fighting the world, fighting and freeing hostages from Saddam Hussein, you know, and doing everything that he was doing. I'm not ever gonna complain. But you do suffer in it in the sense of just not having Dad home. But there's men who work corporate jobs and work, work, work, work, work, and they're not there, and they feel like they're providing for their family, right?

So there's a lot of reasons why sometimes parents aren't tuned in, and I wish, Shawn, I wish that I participated in sports at a younger age. I so wish. Like, if I could go back and do life again, I would be playing sports because I was so busy being bad and trying to le- cut school, and I didn't have parents encouraging me.

I didn't have parents saying, "Let's sign up." I didn't have anyone saying, you know... 'Cause you know how it is with sports. Parents got a lot of work to do. I know because I do it now. We gotta take them to practice. We gotta sign them up. We gotta be at the game. It becomes your life. But I didn't have that, and I would've been such an amazing athlete, like, whether it was tennis...

I like one-on-one sports.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah.

LAILA ALI: But I'm saying whether I wanted to play tennis or soccer or just pretty much anything I wanted to do because boxing is, like, crazy. You know what I mean? Yeah. Boxing, it was perfect for me. Um, but I'm saying I recognize that I was an athlete, and I didn't realize that until boxing, and I wish I could go back and participate in sports now, and I'm encouraging my children to do it.

I encourage other parents, not to necessarily become a professional, but it's so much that you learn for life that gives you this resilience, this strength, this mindset, this discipline that comes from sports that a lot of people are missing a lot of times, and that's why we appreciate sports. I didn't play, so we never can say, "Oh man, you know, I can't..."

You can still grasp these things. It just comes more naturally in a foundational way as a child, which is great to play when you're young, you know? But you can still get the things that you get from sports, but you have to be real intentional about it, as you know, right? When you listen and people come to your podcast or come to the information that you're giving, it's so appreciated because you take the time to find the people that have the best books or the best knowledge or the best information, and then I can just come turn on your podcast and soak it all in, you know?

So we're li- But I'm not gonna do that unless I'm being intentional about wanting to better myself. So that's another, um, just example of I'm still... I got about five friends, okay? I can count y'all. Okay, maybe 10. I used to be able to say five, but maybe 10. I'm talking about that I really consider friends.

We don't have to talk every day. We don't have to be around each other all the time, but we can connect, and there's no messy stuff, and we can pour into one another. You know what I'm saying? We know we're there for one another. But I like to listen to podcasts, right? So What I'm trying to say here is when we talk about surrounding yourself with the right people, it doesn't always have to be physically people.

It's just what information is going in.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yes.

LAILA ALI: How are you starting your day? How are you setting your mindset? The more you push out the trash and pu- listen to something that is gonna make you better in some kind of way, then it's gonna strengthen you as a person. So, you know, we just have to pay attention to all those things.

So, and it starts so young with kids, which is why I wanted to do the book for four to eight-year-olds, 'cause I was like, "I'm getting older now." I'll be, you know, I'll be 49 this year. I know I look good and all, but

SHAWN STEVENSON: Come on. Come on now. Come on.

LAILA ALI: Look at this skin. Look at this skin though. But that comes from a healthy lifestyle. But I will say that, um, I'll be 49 this year, so you know, when we get to that halfway point, you're like, "Dang." And I have my children. They're gonna be coming out... My daughter's 15. My son's 18. He's turning 18, and you start...

I'm like, "Wow, I've come a long way." I remember when I was, like, that lost girl trying to figure life out and got locked up. Okay? Muhammad Ali's daughter, three months locked up. Nobody could do anything for me when that freedom got taken away from me, and I had to go through it, and I had to figure some things out.

And I think now, like, "Man, what happened? What could have done, what, what could have been done differently," right? In how I parent my own kids, and that's what made me wanna speak to kids at a young age because it starts so young to build this foundation of confidence and resilience and a positive mindset that really helps build, you know, build children up for the rest of their lives.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I wanna share with you something that's transformational for not just our appearance and beauty, but for our healing and performance. A double-blind randomized placebo-controlled trial published in the Journal of Phytochemistry and Phytobiology took 76 patients with notable wrinkles and treated half of their face with red light therapy, near-infrared therapy, or both, while other patients received a fake light treatment that was used as a placebo.

Participants received two light therapy treatments each week for four weeks. Here's what happened. Within just four weeks of treatment, participants had up to a 36% reduction in wrinkles and up to a 20% increase in skin elasticity. Phenomenal in just four weeks. Obviously, red light therapy is changing the game right now when it comes to beauty and appearance, but it is so good for reducing pain and healing. A meta-analysis published in the BMJ sought to see if red light therapy could reduce pain in people with osteoarthritis versus a placebo.

The study included over 1,000 people and found that red light therapy significantly reduced knee pain in study participants. But not only that, the results appeared to have lasting effects with benefits seen up to three months after the treatment. The researcher stated, quote, "The positive effect from red light therapy seems to last longer than those of widely recommended painkiller drugs."

Unquote. Yes, red light therapy is phenomenal, but it's critical to make sure that we're getting our devices from a reputable FDA registered source to make sure that we have both red, which is the 660 nanometers light, and near-infrared, which is the 850 nanometers light. This is the same irradiance seen in these studies, and this is something that we can do from the comfort of our own homes.

The wavelength and irradiance needs to be verified in third-party labs, and the red light therapy devices that I use meet IEC safety standards and EMF safety standards. The only red light therapy devices that I use meet the key IEC safety standards for electrical and EMF safety. They have the number one red light therapy mask in the world, and I'm talking about the incredible team at Bon Charge.

Go to boncharge.com/model, and you're going to get an exclusive 15% off all of their red light therapy devices. I personally prefer the Max and Super Max red light therapy panels to do more of a whole body treatment because if I'm going to get the treatment for my skin health, for my face, why not get some healing when it comes to my recovery from exercise or pain or injuries, things like that.

Just really helping to stack conditions. So they have these large panels as well, and also small, portable, handheld red light therapy devices, too. They've got so many different iterations that can fit our lifestyles. So head over there, check them out. Again, all FDA registered and really checking off those boxes for performance and irradiance and safety.

Go to boncharge.com/model. That's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E.com/model and use the code model at checkout for 15% off. Now, back to the show. Absolutely. You know, I, I'm just gonna tell you, I wish I had this book- ... for, you know, my kids when they were, when they were little. You know? Like, we ... It was a part of our evening routines.

We'd read the book, and my youngest son, Brayden, he would memorize. Before he could read, he would memorize all the words in a book, right? 'Cause we read it so many times. I just wish that this was available for him, you know. But now I get to, again, bless and gift this book, you know, to, to parents. Like, we were just talking about, you know, our friend Lewis, and he's got two baby girls.

Yeah. You know? And Lewis is a, he's about that life when it comes to competition. You know? I love it. It's crazy. So he's definitely gonna want his daughters to be athletes, and, um, but just to be able to ... Be- beyond the athlete piece, and I'm so grateful that you said this. We don't talk about this enough Because our world today is so, um

We got a lot of the bumpers around danger, right? There's a lot of curation to everything that most of our children are exposed to. And if we're going to become a complete human being, a resilient human being capable of problem-solving, we have to go through things. And also, of course, have access to wisdom so we can learn from people who've been through things as well.

But sports, accessibility to competition in sports, it's like a microcosm of developing these qualities, right? Whether this is perseverance, whether this is acceptance, you know, whether this is struggle, whether this is ... But it's all the mental stuff. It's, uh, the, the physical stuff is a huge bonus, and we need that, too.

Our kids need to be active, yes. But it's the mental stuff and it's the relationship stuff. You know, it's the ability to relate with our teammates, coaches, but also with our parents. And I, you know, there's a growing guild of parents who are becoming much more conscious in the way that they're interacting with their kids who are in sports, especially if they're competitive themselves, because it's not about us, right?

It's a- it's about our kids and developing these qualities. And not to say it's very rare that, you know, we're the parent of that kid that's going to be that, you know, MVP NBA player or, you know, heavyweight champion. That's a rare thing. It's just creating a child who's resilient and well-rounded and has character traits that can help them to su- su- succeed in life.

And again, sports and putting our kids into different sports is like a microcosm for that. And just a really quick sidebar, you know, we were a baseball family for many years, and this was led by my kids. My youngest, my oldest son, Jordan, asked to play baseball, and then we just got into it, right? And once my youngest kid, you know, was kinda coming of age, T-ball, soccer, the ushe.

But one day he came home from school, he asked like, "Dad, is it okay if I join the basketball team at my school? Like, I really, I really like basketball." And we never did the basketball thing, never. So it was like a whole new thing for us. But he, he … Again, we put him in stuff, right? And he was active, and again, these qualities, but then he attached to something that he wanted to do.

And so this could be seen as even outside the domain of just athletics, of course. You know, this could be chess club. This could be, you know, whatever, but it's competition, challenge, and all those character traits that it brings out about you. I wanna ask you about something specific from the book. This is probably my favorite line in the book, and it's on the last page You say, "I'm a champion because I use it for good.

It's my very own superpower. It makes me stronger, fearless, confident, unstoppable, driven, empowered, and complete." The highlight of that sentence is, "I'm a champion because I use it for good." What do you mean by that?

LAILA ALI: Because I think about the decisions I make and, um, the thought process that goes into them.

A lot of the time I'm thinking about others. I'm thinking about, um, you know, how it will be perceived by children or f- by people who look up to me. There's a lot of deals and things that have come my way just being Muhammad Ali's daughter or being on, on television, being an athlete, that I've turned down because I'm like, "Mm, nah, that's not good.

That's not gonna make me look good to the community." There's a whole lot of things I could have done to have a bigger name or a bigger social media following or to be... I'll be a slave to the system, right? Which I'm never gonna be, you know? So people don't even realize to the extent at which you haven't sold out for them.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Mm-hmm.

LAILA ALI: For them.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Mm-hmm. They have no idea.

LAILA ALI: Right? Because they don't have any because, you know, it... So it just goes unsaid. A lot of the things I could have done, I didn't do because I was c- I wanted to make sure I was being a positive role model for the young children coming behind me, for the young girls coming behind me.

A lot of times girls feel like they have to oversexualize themselves, right? They want the... Nowadays especially, just wanna get likes and, and take your clothes off. I like to be able to show, no, you can be a confident, strong, attractive, if that's how you wanna be seen, woman, and still be respected and still carry yourself with respect.

You don't have to do what everyone else is doing, right? You don't have to be, uh, be, um, going out of your way and doing any and everything for money, right? Now, some people are more comfortable doing those things. Okay, I'm not gonna judge you. I'm not. That's not who I am. So if I did it, that would mean that I'm doing it just for money or just for likes or to be seen a certain way.

So, um, you know, and just making sure that I put this positive message out in, in different ways that I can. You know, whether it be through my first book, Reach, through, um, this book, through the public speaking that I'm doing. Um, you know, my focus is about helping people become the strongest ver- version of themself through their health, their mindset, and their purpose.

So when I was building my brand, Laila Ali Lifestyle, um, I was like, "Okay, what's most important to me?" So that it could res- everything is actually transparent, resonates with who I really am as a person. It doesn't feel like work because this is who I really am, so it's going to be consistent, right? So I'm never gon- And, and you also have to be willing to be vulnerable sometimes, right?

And share things about yourself that can be a challenge or areas that you need to grow or areas that you need to change. It doesn't help a- anybody to make them think, "Oh, no, I'm, I'm 

perfect," you know? I'm... You know, "I just woke up like this." That doesn't help, right? So I think that because, to answer your question, because of the time, attention, and intentionality I put into pouring into others, I feel like it makes me a champion for that purpose.

Because my father was the greatest example of someone who can be a champion in the ring, but he was a bigger champion outside of the ring. How he used his platform. You got money, so what? A lot of people have money. You got championship titles, so what? There's a lot of other athletes. They call you the greatest, so what?

Everybody's calling themselves the GOAT now. Everybody's the GOAT, okay? The GOAT, the GOAT, the GOAT. Everywhere you look, in every sport. I'm like, man, y'all just gonna water it down like that? It doesn't even mean anything anymore. Now it just means one of the best. No, the GOAT, when my daddy said it, was the greatest of all time, meaning there ain't gonna be another one.

So again, I say all that to say, but what can they never take away from him is what he did outside of the ring. There will never be another There will never be another, and he's his own person. And you know what? He put God first, he put himself and people before everything else, and he would never sell out the people.

So that was my example growing up. So whether people know it or not, I kinda move the same way. Even though we're so different, that's just some foundational stuff, and that's the same thing that I, that I teach my children. You know, being a good person. 'Cause at the end of the day, that is all that really matters, right?

Is like, how do we make this world a better place while we were here? And if you, if you're not gonna make it a better place, 'cause we're not all gonna be a Muhammad Ali, right? I, I get that. But everyone can do their part. So I wanna tell you a story really quick. So when my dad was young, and real Muhammad Ali, um, followers or fans that know his story would probably already know the story, but some people may not.

My dad started boxing because when he was young, he was riding his bicycle, and he left it outside, and it got stolen. And he was like, "Oh, man, I'm gonna get those boys that stole his, his tricycle," right? And then there was a gentleman who ran the local amateur boxing program, and he heard him. He's like, "Young man, well, do you know how to fight?

Are you gonna go get them?" He's like, "No." "Why don't you come in here, and I'm gonna teach you how to fight." Really, he was just trying to keep him out of trouble. So that's how he got brought into the boxing gym, right? And started training and fell in love with boxing and became an Olympic champion, gold medalist.

But that man didn't have... He had no idea that he was bringing Muhammad Ali, who was now Muhammad Ali, into the gym. But he cared enough, right? And it was a Caucasian man that cared enough about this kid, right? To keep him out of trouble, bring him in the gym. So that little piece of the puzzle was so important.

So whether you're making a difference in the lives of your own children, right? My, my, my grandma and my grandpa didn't know what my dad was gonna become, you know? Their own children or your niece, your nephew, your coach, your, your... You know, whatever it is, you know. Or, or that child in your neighborhood. We need to just take the time to pour in 'cause you never know what they're gonna become.

And sometimes we put negativity into them, and it also shapes who they're gonna become. So we all just need to do our part, you know. And like you said, we had a conversation before with strengthening our boys- Will help keep our girls safer for people who are worried about the girls. Well, guess what?

We need to pour into our boys and tr- teach them respect, right? Teach them how, how, how, what not to do, what things are not okay. And then you have less people running around doing the wrong thing, and they're more focused on doing the right thing. So I try to do my part, you know, as much as I can in every way that I can, and that's why I call myself a champion for good.

I know that was long-winded, but hey.

SHAWN STEVENSON: No, no, no, no. I talk a lot. There's no... No, not with you. No, we want all the wind. We want all of it. Listen, something also, I can't let you go.

That's all right. I, I go on for- Because I get to s- I get to see you, you know? Yes, yes. And I can't let you go without asking you about the beauty tea.

I gotta know what, like, you gotta share some of these secrets because- Oh, right ... you know what I'm saying? Like, listen, we're changing the paradigm of what this looks like. Mm-hmm. You know? Now there's this big conversation about- ... the biological age, you know. Like, you're, the thing about you is, well, it's not like you're not running from being 49, right?

Mm-hmm. It's quite the opposite. You are, you know, you're just making it look so gorgeous, you know? Right. Because you are stacking conditions and doing certain things to really maximize, you know, the beauty that's already within. So- Yeah ... g- l- share it. What are your secrets? Because people- I... Yes ... yeah, we wanna know.

LAILA ALI: I'm proud, okay? I'm proud to tell people my age. I'm like, "Oh yeah, I'm almost 50," 'cause I know I don't look like I am to most people. Um, to me, I, I, I've aged. Obviously I can tell. But I will tell you, you know what has made a really big difference, and I'm sure you, you already know about this, fasting has really made a big difference in my life.

So let me just start by saying this. I've always had skin that people thought was beautiful, right? That's natural. Uh, I think it just runs in the family. And, um, I think that came from just, like I said, genetics, but also sweating a lot, exercising, eating the right foods, right? Because that, that, that can change.

You can be born with it, but then you, I've seen myself go through some stages. Especially when I was younger, eating a lot of junk. My skin wasn't even as, as, as it is now. So that makes a big difference. I also use the infrared sauna Um, I use red light therapy. Um, you know, I have a little, a little unit but even having all of those things, what made the biggest difference that 

literally took like 10 years off of my face was fasting, long-term fasting.

I'm talking about like the longest I've done is five days, and I started, um... I, I read Fast Like a Girl with Dr. Mindy Pelz, and her book really inspired me. Um, I had a couple of different guides, but I did the five-day fast, and then after the fast, that next two weeks when your body's growing all these new cells, um, and I did it for that purpose, for, um, the therapeutic effect of it because I'm...

Like with boxing and my brain and my memory and all these things, and I learned that you can actually br- grow new brain cells and get rid of inflammation. I was like, "I got to do this." But it was a nice little You know, cherry on top to be able to get weight off because I also have hyperthyroidism I've had since I was a, a kid.

I have what they call Graves' disease, so I have, I, I don't really have a metabolism anymore. My weight, like, I would just get stuck with, like, 20 pounds on I couldn't get off, and nothing worked for me except the fasting. Um, so it gave me a lot of control. It's not easy to do, right? A lot of people go, "Fast and starve yourself."

But I worked my way up, right? So I started with the 18 hours, and 24 hours, and 36 hours, and 48, and 72, and then end up at the five days. And, um, after that first two days, you're not even hungry 'cause then you're in the ketosis and, you know, you're, you got autophagy going and I feel great. I also got used to the way I feel.

I feel amazing when I fast. I have so much energy, and I think so clearly. And I used to think people were crazy when they said that. Like, yeah, right. Like, I didn't believe it. I'm like, "How are you not eating, but you have energy?" But you're, you're, you're not starving. Your body's eating its own fat, right?

Um, so it's amazing. It's something that sounds really crazy if you've never done it before. People who have done it are like, "Yeah, absolutely." But I'm telling you, the way you break your fast is so important because that's something I had to learn, too. You can't just be like, "Ah, I'm gonna eat a piece of cake.

I deserve this because I fasted for five days." No, because what you eat is what's gonna help you grow those cells. The cells don't start growing back until you break your fast. So now you wanna get all the most nutrit- nutritious superfoods and supplements and things and, you know, you... Man, I'm telling you, I love it.

I, I will never, ever stop. In fact, I'm getting ready to start, um, another one. I'm, I'm like, you know, it's like hopscotch, getting ready to jump in. Yeah. Uh, like to get my mind right over the next couple days. I'm gonna do, like, another four-day fast. And I, I intermittent fast, but the long fast, I like to do, like, maybe, like, at least quarterly, like a five-day fast.

So yeah, it's great. I love it.

SHAWN STEVENSON: She's giving the secrets.

LAILA ALI: That's not a secret. They want- And- They wanna hear some kinda cream or something. Trust me. They want something easy. It's nothing topical.

You come- I got this- ... all the way- I got this yak.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I got this yak cream. You know? Like, where, where we gonna get the yak?

No, this is, it's a process. You know? Yeah. It's not a secret It's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a process, right? The magic is in the process

LAILA ALI: But anybody would love to take 10 years off, and I'm telling you, I'm not, I'm not the only one that says it. I mean, I literally had friends come over and go, "Did you do something?

Like, did you do something?" Like, they really thought I snuck and did something. I'm like, "No." I literally, it's the fasting.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Hmm. Come on. Oh, she's giving the secrets. I, I'm writing it all down. We have a list.

LAILA ALI: Yep. Yep.

SHAWN STEVENSON: You know, by the way, uh, Dr. Mindy Pelz, you know, I, I coordinated conversation with you guys back in the day, by the way.

Yes, you sure did.

Yeah.

LAILA ALI: You sure did. You see? See-

SHAWN STEVENSON: Look ... we, we love on each other Look You see that?

LAILA ALI: Look, look, look, I, I s- that slipped. You know what? You know what? You know why I forgot? Because I actually asked someone before you to reach out to her, but they didn't get through. Right. Then you got through.

Of course. So I couldn't really remember who it was, but yes, you connected me with her, and I recently just did her podcast and yeah, I recently did her podcast. Her, that episode is up now. We had a great conversation. I've been seeing a lot of great feedback 'cause, you know, I'm gonna tell the truth. So I kind of...

So if anyone's interested, I will talk about my fasting journey in more detail. Um, and she's, she's amazing. You know, she's amazing. Thank you for that connect. Um, but yeah, I've continued with it. I've continued with it, and she was so proud of me. She's like, "You're like the star fasting student," because- Okay ... I take it seriously- Right

you know, 'cause I'm an athlete. So I'm like, "Tell me what to do, I'm gonna do it," 'cause I had a goal, and Shawn, my goal is this therapeutic effect of it, right? So I wanna keep doing it. Now I found something that works. You know, it's amazing, and I've brought friends along with me. You talk about the circle, I've brought friends along, and they've been doing better.

You know, they've lost weight. They feel more energetic. They've gotten rid of some of their illnesses and medications. It's amazing.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I love this so much. Such a blessing. You see how, you know, it, it, it's sharing truly is caring for real, you know? Yep. Absolutely. And like, we can just continue to expand this spark, you know, passing it along, and obviously you're doing that for our kids now with this new book.

And so if you could, can you share with everybody where they could pick up a copy or copies-

LAILA ALI: Yes ...

SHAWN STEVENSON: of A Spark of Greatness?

LAILA ALI: This is the book And I'm definitely gonna be sending you a copy, and this is my advance copy. It's a beautiful book. So A Spark of Greatness is... We were talking about some of the artwork.

A Spark of Greatness is sold everywhere books are available. It's available now on pre-order, depending on when this podcast comes out, but it's launching September 8th, where it'll be actually shipped to you September 8th. Um, it's such a beautiful book, and I'm actually going to be giving away 10,000 books.

So I've been just kinda gathering, like, friends and partners to help me, you know, get the books so that, you know, I can donate them to schools and children, and, um, it's just amazing. So I love it. I'm looking for this one photo. This is a photo in the book that I love.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah.

LAILA ALI: This is, like, that conversation with my dad when I was telling him that I wanted to box, and he was telling me he didn't want me to do it.

And, you know, I was so determined and found a gym, found the trainers, found everything on my own. People think my dad, like, walked... You know, "Give my daughter the best of everything." It wasn't that at all. I literally had to go. When you talk about surrounding yourself, I literally had to go find my team. And, and, and I made some, you know, wrong moves along the way, but I had to learn, you know?

But yeah, it w- it, it was a, it was an amazing journey. And you see how it ended, 24 and 0, 21 knockouts. I'm in the same Hall of Fame as my father.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Mm.

LAILA ALI: And Muhammad Ali told me, "It's not for you. It's not for women. It's a man's sport." And God bless him. May he rest in peace. And he was trying to protect his baby and he wasn't aware because women's boxing isn't where it is now.

So I understand that. But imagine if I would've listened and didn't follow my own heart. So it took a lot of courage, um, to go against my own father and never have any, um, experience playing sports. I didn't know what to expect, and I did it, you know? So it was great- All of that is in here, and it's a great moment at the end, and it's one of those books, like you mentioned, that you talk to your children about.

It's the conversations after the story when you're dealing with a four and eight-year-old to really, you know, get into their mindset and really drill it in, all of the things that were important in the book. So I think it makes it really easy for parents to do here, and even if they didn't, the feeling that they get from it is gonna be, um, a very inspirational feeling.

So I'm super proud of it.

SHAWN STEVENSON: You should be. You absolutely- Thank you ... should be. It's a beautiful book. Like I said, the artwork, the illustrations, the layout of the book itself, it just feels right. It just feels right. And I appreciate you so much. I can't even put it into words. And if you could also, where can people connect with you, follow you, just get more into your universe?

LAILA ALI: So everything Laila Ali is on lailaali.com, including there's a link for the book there that would take you to, you know, the different websites where it's available. Just go to lailaali.com. But it's on Amazon, it's on Barnes & Noble, it's all those places. My spice blends, which you have... You know you got some in your kitchen 'cause- Yeah

anybody who's cooking good food, they need to have, uh, my spice blends. But, hey, even if you're not cooking good food, you probably really need my organic spice blends. But all of that is on my website. Um, and then of course I'm thereallailaali on Instagram and Laila Ali on Facebook if you're on social media.

Yeah, but my s- my website, uh, uh, take you there.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Amazing. Well, like I said, I appreciate you so much, and this is an amazing time, amazing project, A Spark of Greatness. Everybody pick up a copy or copies, and I can't wait to do this again. I appreciate you so much.

LAILA ALI: Thank you. Can't wait to see you guys in person so I can get a hug.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Coming soon, for sure.

LAILA ALI: I know, right? Thank you, Shawn.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Of course. The one and only Laila Ali, everybody

Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this. You already know what to do. Let's keep this conversation going. Share your voice. You can leave a comment for this episode.

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Keep this conversation going that way as well. Take a screenshot of the episode, share it on social media, share your voice there. Let's infuse the interwebs with some positivity today. And I hope that this, again, added some value to your day, added some insights, added some inspiration. Definitely check out A Spark of Greatness, new children's book.

Get your copy or get a bunch of copies and share that goodness as well. I appreciate you so much. We've got some epic masterclasses and world-leading experts coming your way very, very soon, so make sure to stay tuned. Take care, have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon.