SHAWN STEVENSON: Welcome to The Model Health Show. What if I told you that your life is a result of your habits? Charles Duhigg said that once you understand that habits can change, you have the freedom and the responsibility to remake them. You can remake yourself. You can be renewed. You can remake your life at any time, and the catalyst for that is changing your habits.

And today, we have a master class on the power of positive habits with one of the world's leading experts in this subject matter, and I'm telling you right now, it's going to be a game changer. Now, with all of that said, let's go ahead and dive right in with our special guest and topic of the day. John Gordon's best-selling books and talks have inspired readers and audiences around the world.

His principles have been put to the test by numerous Fortune 500 companies, professional and college sports teams, school districts, hospitals, and nonprofits. He's the author of 32 books, including 18 bestsellers and five children's books. John is a graduate of Cornell University and holds a master's in teaching from Emory University, and he's utilizing his teaching talents to transform the success of individuals and superstar companies.

His clients include the Los Angeles Dodgers, the Los Angeles Rams, Campbell Soup, Dell, Publix, the Chicago Bulls, Miami Heat. The list goes on and on. And he's here today to teach us the power of positive habits. Let's dive in this conversation with the incredible John Gordon. We have the return of a legend.

The return of John Gordon. I'm so happy to see you, man.

JON GORDON: Man, great to be back with the OG of podcasts.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Come on. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Listen, if you could, can you enlighten us to why habits are so powerful in our lives? Why are habits so valuable?

JON GORDON: The habits that you do become who you are. You are your habits, your actions, and also your thoughts.

Thinking is actually a habit. We often don't think of thinking as a habit, but it is. And so as a man thinks, he becomes. As a woman thinks, she becomes. And so your thoughts, your words, your beliefs, your actions, the habits of what you eat, the habits of your exercise. You are creating your life, your body, your mind, and your future every single day.

And so that's why habits are so important, and it's not just any habit. It's a positive habit that will actually create a positive future for you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And you talk about the fact that this creates not just a result, but it's exponential what happens when we're implementing certain types of habits.

JON GORDON: Yeah, when I was thinking about this book and writing this book, I wanted to share habits that exponentially grow someone. Like, how does it exponentially grow you and elevate you? And these are habits that I've been putting into practice for years. I actually started my career writing and sharing what I was doing for myself as I was trying to become a more positive person.

'Cause as Shawn my wife almost left me 'cause I was so negative, which is ironic. I wrote a book called The Power of Positive Habits. But being negative and wanting to be more positive and having to become more positive to stay married caused me to really say, "Okay, what's working and how is it working?"

I began writing about that and sharing that. So this was 2002 I began doing this. I started with a positive tip newsletter I had five subscribers, my mother, my brother... best friend from college, my teammates, and I'm putting it out there, but people started sharing it. So here, full circle now, 25, 26 years later, I'm now doing this, and I wrote this book as a collection of all these habits that I've done over the years, and also what I've shared with all the athletes, all the teams, all the high performers, the CEOs, what I've shared with them over the years and what has really helped grow them.

And I know these habits changed the course of my life. They changed the course of their lives. But as I was writing the book, I was like, "Okay, what else do I need to add to it?" So I began researching new habits, new thoughts, new ideas. So I actually grew in writing this book, even with the physical habits, which I know you're gonna love, that I started doing, changed my life.

Squatting like a child. I began squatting like a child after researching how important it is. Man, I couldn't get past a chair at first, but now I can almost get to the ground. I feel stronger. My legs feel more flexible. My body feels healthy and younger. One simple habit like that, I feel so much better.

'Cause you're supposed to squat and be able to squat, and most people in our country can't, but you should be able to. And it shows that you're not aging if you can't. So if you really wanna have great longevity, start squatting like a child. That's why it's one of the habits.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I love this so much already.

Just to piggyback on that really quickly, this is something that we're also designed to do... throughout our entire life. As a matter of fact, your life depends on you being able to squat, whether it's simply to use the bathroom or not. Yeah. But as you mentioned, this gets me thinking about my, my wife's grandmother, and my youngest son is here, so this is his great-grandmother.

And into her elderly years, she sat on a stool that is literally three, four inches off the ground. Wow ... making chapati and this was just a normal part of life. And so thank you for sharing that. And now with this being said, positive habits, the emphasis is on positive. Let's talk about the negative a little bit too.

Because you said that essentially our habits become us.

JON GORDON: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: What happens if we have a habit of not having habits?

JON GORDON: Ooh.

SHAWN STEVENSON: What happens if we have a habit of implementing, often unconsciously, negative habits? Do we then experience exponentially negative results or exponential sameness?

JON GORDON: Yeah, no doubt about it.

Your negative habits will create a life of destruction and despair. Your positive habits will elevate you and create an amazing life. I was actually thinking about this today. I was walking around Santa Monica. I'm here visiting to see you and do these podcasts, and I was thinking about the fact that, man, I wish I would've put that in the book.

Because one of the habits I should've put in the book is to actually get rid of your worst habit. 'Cause your worst habit is what is destroying you, not exponentially growing you. And we all have a worst habit. I don't know what yours is, but I've got one. We all got one. And mine isn't that bad, but some people have really bad habits that are destroying their life, and you gotta get rid of that worst habit.

And that worst habit also is keeping you from all the positive habits. So maybe it's not destroying your life, but maybe it's limiting your life and keeping you from growing. We have to make sure that we get rid of the bad habit and replace it with a positive habit. I think that's when you get exponential growth.

What's holding me back? What will propel me forward? And when you make that combination, that's key. But we can't just focus on positive habits. We have to make sure we get rid of the bad habits. And one of them I put in the book, like I said, I really believe one of the habits here is to reduce or eliminate drinking.

A lot of people don't realize how harmful it can be and is in their life, and how much it holds them back. I've never had someone say, "I regret that I stopped drinking."

People usually feel great when they stop. And they might miss it a little bit, but they feel great when they stop or when they reduce it.

And so I say, "Hey, just try it in your life. Try this habit of reducing or eliminating drinking. Just see how you feel. And if you start to feel better, great. Then make that a habit in your life where you don't do it as often, and you might even wanna eliminate it."

SHAWN STEVENSON: I regret being so freaking healthy.

I regret being so fit. It just gets on my nerves. I love that framing, because I don't think we think about it in that kind of perspective. So thank you for sharing that. Now, the big question

JON GORDON: You're being facetious, of course, right? Of course. Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: So the big question is many people are aware and have a desire to have healthier, more positive habits.

What is going on with the struggle? Why is it so difficult for most people to actually implement the habits that they wanna have?

JON GORDON: Yeah. So I was thinking about that as well this morning because this is actually not a book about how to make habits stick. There's a lot of great books out there on the science of habits.

This is a collection of 93 habits that you'll actually do. These are habits that will stick, and I think the best way to actually put forth a habit, to start living a habit, to make it stick, is actually to pick a habit you will do, and a habit that is simple, practical, powerful, a habit that makes you feel great.

And because you feel great, you get addicted to it and then you wanna do it again and again. So I wrote a list of habits, basically, and how to put it into practice, and made it compelling and engaging and simple for you to do . I believe that when people start putting these habits into practice, it will stick.

And I think that they don't stick, the reason why we don't stick to our habits, is because we're picking complex habits. We're trying to do things that we don't naturally want to do. We're not doing things we love to do. We're not seeing the incredible feel good benefits right away of that habit. So we have to get people to take small steps and make those small habits, and when they feel good from those small habits.

They'll actually wanna do more and more. So for instance take a walk of gratitude That changed my life, that walk of gratitude. But don't start with an hour, just start with 10 minutes. Start walking for 10 minutes, practice gratitude, see how you feel. I'm now doing an hour walk of gratitude, but start with 10 minutes.

Walking after meals is a habit that will change your life. You know this. It will exponentially elevate how you feel and your metabolism, your overall brain health and your blood sugar level will improve when you just take walks after meals. Now, does it have to be an hour walk? No, a five to 10-minute walk after a meal.

Just start doing that. How do you feel? Getting morning sunlight on your eyes in the morning, we know the benefits of that. You start producing more cortisol right away, increases alertness and energy, helps you sleep better at night, so doing that in the morning helps you sleep better at night, sets yourself up for a great day.

So, simple, practical habits. And on the thought side, right? Talk to yourself, don't listen to yourself. That's a habit. Negative thoughts are coming in. I'm not gonna listen to the negative thoughts. I'm not gonna believe it. I know it's gonna come in, but here's the key. It's not coming from you. How do I know?

Who would ever choose to have a negative thought?

So when it comes in, don't believe what it says. Don't agree with it. Instead, speak truth to it. 

Speak words of life. Speak encouragement to yourself. Talk to yourself, don't listen to yourself. Now, you start doing that on a daily basis, at first it's gonna be weird, but then that habit will become who you are.

You'll start having more control of your thoughts, you'll have more resilience, a better mindset. Next thing you're now becoming a more positive person. This is what I have done, actually, to become more positive in my life, and it transformed my life. So I got people now all over the country, all over the world, taking walks of gratitude every day, those thank you walks.

They're talking to themselves, and I'm already getting emails. "Man, been doing it for a week. I feel so much better." So anyway, that was my whole thought process. I wanted to write about habits that people will do and can do, make it simple, fun, engaging, and now it will stick.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Come on, it's about the stickiness.

JON GORDON: The stickiness. Make habits that stick instead of worrying about trying to make a habit you don't like.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I love it. I love it when you talk about talking to yourself instead of listening to yourself, that might sound a little bit crazy, right? And the truth is, you've already got that voice in your head that's chattering away, and we don't realize or take agency or dominion over that voice. That's us who's talking, and we can say, we can determine how we're speaking to ourselves. And thankfully, there's a lot more data emerging about this, 'cause people have been dealing with this since humans have had brains.

But just the power of how we're speaking to ourselves versus how we speak to others ... right? Some of the stuff that we say to ourselves, we would never say to somebody that we care about. We would never say certain things that are demeaning or berating or just ugly to the people that we love. And why do we treat ourselves so bad?

Why do we speak to ourselves in such a negative way, so

JON GORDON: I'm so glad you're talking about that, because if you don't take your negative thoughts captive, they will take you captive.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah.

JON GORDON: And that's why one of my favorite habits in the book is to become your own greatest encourager. 'Cause if you had a best friend who was struggling, you wouldn't say to your best friend, "Hey, you should give up.

Yeah, you suck." You don't have it. Yeah, it's hopeless." You wouldn't say that to your kids. No, you would encourage them. You would speak life into them. You would say, I know you're stronger than you think. I've seen you overcome so much. I know you can overcome this. Yeah you're more powerful than I believe in you And you should believe in yourself 'cause you're gonna accomplish something great." That's what you would say to them, but you don't say that to yourself. You beat yourself up. You talk to yourself like your worst critic, not your greatest encourager. Man, but when you start encouraging yourself on a daily basis and become your own greatest encourager, where you're not worrying about or needing encouragement from others, although it's nice to have, you're encouraging you.

Man, you give yourself life, you give yourself strength, you give yourself power, 'cause those thoughts and those words become what you think and feel and believe, and it changes everything. I would say that's my greatest work when I work with athletes and teams and high performers is to really get them to think differently and start doing this.

'Cause for years, Sean I beat myself up. For years, I was my own greatest critic. For years, I lost the battle of my mind, and it is a battle between negative and positive. I had a 16-year-old who was struggling with his mental health. He was in the ER two nights before I talked to him. He was suicidal. And I met with him finally.

I knew his mom. I went to high school with his mom. And I said, "Hey, do you ever have negative thoughts?" He said, "Oh, yeah." I said, "Do they bombard you? Do they attack you? Do they accuse you? Do they tell you're not enough?" He said, "All the time. It's so much, I just wanna give up." So I asked him if his negative thoughts were coming from him, and he said, "Yeah, they're in my head."

And I said, "Really?" I said, "Would you ever choose a negative thought like that?" And he said, "No." I said, "Let me tell you something. You're in a battle between positive and negative. There's nothing wrong with you. You're not broken. You don't need to be fixed. The thought just comes in so fast, you believe it.

Then you speak it out loud, then you reinforce it, and then you start saying it a lot, and then it does become a part of you." I said, "You have to realize you're in a battle between positive and negative. You're not the thoughts you think you're the thoughts you believe. And you don't have the power of the first thought.

I told him, "You have the power of the second thought." We all have the power of the second thought

JON GORDON: To speak words and words of life to ourselves. And as we do, man, that changes everything. So as you become your own greatest encourager, adversity will definitely not defeat you, negativity will not sabotage you, and failure won't define you.

You'll rise above, you'll overcome, and that's why I think it's such an important habit.

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to take advantage right now. Head over there, check 'em out. Now back to the show. Yeah. I think in our culture we're so focused on the habit themselves, but we don't put a lot of thought into the pre-habit.

The concept that you talk about, the habit before the habit.

JON GORDON: Yeah. Talk about that. Okay. So if I wanna encourage myself, a habit before the habit would be writing down those words of encouragement I will say to myself when a negative thought comes in.

So on the left side of a piece of paper, I'll write down a lot of my negative thinking and those thoughts that do come in. On the right side, I'll write down the words of encouragement I will say whenever a negative thought comes in. Or perhaps I want a habit of walking and exercising in the morning. At night, I'll put out my shoes and my clothes as the habit before the habit, 'cause when I wake up, I'll see it.

Less friction- And now I'm more likely to do it. I don't have to go search for my clothes, search for my shoes. It's already there. I can't make an excuse, "Oh, I can't find anything." I have to go do it because that's right there. I put them on and I go work out. So the habit before the habit helps you implement any habit that you want.

Here's one more. You wanna read more at night before you go to bed? Put that book on your bed. Just put it on your bed, so when you're going to bed you'll see it. It's a reminder, "Oh, read my book before bed." The habit before the habit

SHAWN STEVENSON: I can attest to that one. I've got books, and my wife actually gets a little bit pissed about it, but I've got books right on the arm of my couch.

JON GORDON: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And it just makes it automatic. In the morning, I come into the living room. The book's right there. I could just dive right in. The same thing in the evening as well. See, accessibility.

JON GORDON: Yeah. I love that. And you asked earlier, why don't we engage in habits? Why don't we succeed with our habits?

Because we're not doing things that set ourselves up with these great habits. So the more you can remove friction, and you can make things simple, easy, practical, then you'll actually do it, then it's more likely to stick.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Talking with you and being a part of your world, it tends to spark different ideas.

And as we have your books here at the studio.

JON GORDON: Honored.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Even when you're not here, we have your books here. And over the last couple of years, when guests come in, I'll gift them one of your books.

JON GORDON: Wow.

SHAWN STEVENSON: All right? It's very special stuff. That

JON GORDON: Means a lot.

SHAWN STEVENSON: One of the things that this conversation and this new project has inspired for me is let's just be honest, okay?

Which w- is something that we struggle to do, being honest with ourselves. What do we really want to do? What do we really love to do? Because as you mentioned, the stickiness is such a powerful force because it's... Again, we've got all the science on, like, why won't you do the things that you say you wanna do- and habits, create habits. Where's the joy factor? Because that's such a easy inroad to get something that is a positive addiction. And so what I would encourage people to do is just, even now, you could pause this, and just make a list of 10 things that you love to do.

JON GORDON: Yep.

SHAWN STEVENSON: What are 10 things that you absolutely love to do? Do you absolutely love to play pickleball? Which I know you're a pickleballer now. 

JON GORDON: Oh, let's go. Love it.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Do you absolutely love to hang out with your kids? Do you absolutely love your date nights with your partner? Do you absolutely love, going for a walk at the park? Write those 10 things down so that you have access, top of mind.

And chances are, those things that you love to do, for most people, they're not doing them very often- ... because of whatever thing they got going on in their head as to why they can't do it. And start to prioritize those things. Take one of those things and have that be the thing that you start your day with.

Give yourself permission Yeah ... to do that.

JON GORDON: That is so good, and so practical too. And I'm thinking about this book, 93 Habits. You don't need 93. You just need one. One habit literally will change the course of your life, one that you love to do, one that you enjoy doing, and one that uplifts you.

Mine is my thank you walk. Years ago, I began taking this walk of gratitude to become a more positive person because I read you can't be stressed and thankful at the same time. So you're feeling blessed, you won't be stressed. So I'm thinking, "Man, I'm really miserable and negative. I gotta start doing something."

I began doing these walks of gratitude. On those walks is where all the ideas for the books came about. So the books you're talking about that you give away, I'm so thankful for that. I know those books came about because I was walking and practicing gratitude. Next thing I'm feeling good, I'm uplifted, I got the endorphins, the dopamine, the serotonin.

My brain is now at a higher frequency, and I start tuning into these ideas and these thoughts 'cause of one habit. So that's what you're talking about. Yeah, pick 10, write down 10, and that's what I say to do with this book too. There's 93 habits. Go through it all and pick your top 10. Then pick your top three, and then start with one.

Just start with one. Have your two ready to go, but start with one. Master that one and then add another one. Master that, then add another one. Don't try to do them all at once. Just make your list and do what's gonna bring you joy, 'cause that is a positive habit. I love that you're saying that. What brings you joy?

What uplifts you? Yeah, I would love to say, I'm gonna start riding a bike every day and be one of these guys who rides his bike for miles around, but I just don't love that And so I can make myself try to do it, but how successful would I be? No. Love to walk, love to run sometimes, love to play basketball, love pickleball more than anything.

So get me out playing pickleball, yeah, that's a habit I can do. I'm competing against young guys. I feel young when I'm on the court. I feel 85 when I'm off the court. But man, I feel... But yet it keeps me alive and keeps me energized, so I'm willing to do it because I love it.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. In the book, you have so many creative, but more so it's not just about creativity, it's creative how you've said them, but these are things that we all have access to, maybe we've done, accidentally sometimes, and one of them is to play your highlight reel

As a habit. Talk about that one.

JON GORDON: Yeah, I gotta give Ed Mylett credit for that one. He gave me that idea, and he was talking about how he as a baseball player would create his highlight reel of his best hits, and he would visualize them. And when he would get up at bat, all of a sudden you'd visualize it, now you're having more success.

But you can do this any area of your life. When I'm about to go speak, I'll play my highlight reel of some of my great moments on stage. So you got these moments, it's a highlight reel. You step on stage, you're feeling more confident. You're ready now to take on that, that audience, to bring joy, love, energy, insights, wisdom to them as well, 'cause you just saw it when you did it a number of times before.

So playing your highlight reel just gives you confidence, and because you see it, it allows you to do it and have more repetition. It's the power of visualization.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Absolutely, and it's really being intentional about your come from. Where are you coming from in whatever the situation is?

JON GORDON: Let's be honest.

How often do we have a negative highlight reel playing? I think most of us go through life with a negative highlight reel, always imagining the worst, thinking about the worst, thinking about our failures, the mistakes we made, the things we did wrong when we failed, instead of actually all the positive moments in our life.

So the more you create these positive moments and you start looking for positive moments, you'll start to experience more of them. I always say, "Look for the good." 'Cause when you look for the good, you will start to find the good. What you look for shows up more in your life. What you focus on, you experience more of.

You don't believe me? Look for blue cars on the road today. You will see more blue cars

JON GORDON: On the road. It's the power of what our f- what we're focusing on, what we're looking for, and then we'll find it.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yes. What we're tapping into intentionally, I love this one so much because it's simply remembering.

It's remembering who you are, what you're capable of, and this is something that I encourage in my son. Again, he's here with us today. He's one of those guys, he's had those incredible experiences that a, a lot of people, not, let alone kids, have had, where he's the MVP

SHAWN STEVENSON: Of the AAU basketball tournament.

Come on. And just the way that he plays, how he's expressed himself, how he's been a great teammate and all these different things. And you might come up against some, really tough opposition on paper. Maybe they're saying, "Oh, this team is this, this team is that," but it's remembering who you are- coming into the situation and knowing that, yeah I'm that guy. And we have access to that, or it can be negative, right? You could just focus on, oh, this, it's that. I don't wanna, I don't wanna mess up. We can focus on these things, but it's all within us. We get to basically choose what channel we're tuned into.

JON GORDON: Oh, yeah. And I think one of the greatest habits is to just focus on loving it. Man, when you're loving it, and you're loving the battle

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah ...

JON GORDON: And you're loving competing, and you're loving the moment, and you're a warrior who's only focused on the moment and focused on loving the battle, you're not worried about the outcome.

You're not worried about making a mistake. You're not worried about messing up. That's fear There's a difference between a hero and a warrior. The hero wants the outcome.

The hero wants the glory. The hero wants the win. So they're looking at the clock when they're winning going please, move faster.

Go faster so we can have this win." The warrior has no concept of time 'cause the warrior is so engrossed in the battle and loving the battle that they actually fight to the end. And so you wanna be a warrior and have a warrior mindset where you're just loving it and loving competing, and you're expressing yourself, as you said.

Like, when I say warrior, you might think of a warrior who's like a warrior fighting. But yeah, you're fighting with a joy and a love of what you're doing, and there's something about that. There's something really powerful and beautiful about that because you're expressing yourself authentically of who you are, and that's when you're your most powerful self.

I envision, when you're so in the flow and so in the zone and in that moment, there's a flow to it. Yeah. I watch an artist on stage, a performer, a musician, and they're just doing what they do. They're just playing their music, and they just have such a joy about them, but there's something incredible as you're watching them do that.

And I think to myself at times, "Am I doing that on stage when I'm speaking?"

Is an athlete doing that when they're thinking about what everyone is thinking? No. The key is to not look outside. Look inside. Inside to the heart, to your soul, expressing yourself instead of worrying about what everyone else is thinking.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. There's a very powerful habit that you talk about that w- we've got the neuroscience now. It's connected to positive emotions. Okay. It's connected to more optimism. It's connected to an instant state change. It's proactively smiling more. And it's something that we're doing a lot of. Just hanging out together we tend to do this, but this is one of those things that even in my meditation, I'm a big smiler, and it's like it's something that's ingrained in us. It's in our genetics, babies are smiling and expressing that emotion, so this is that hard wiring. But what tends to happen over time with life and with stress and with all the things, that we start to put smiling into like a special compartment.

I'll get to the happiness and the smiling and the laughter when I got time for it. But you talk about the habit of smiling more

JON GORDON: Yeah. It's so powerful. Remember during the pandemic when we couldn't see people's smiles? Couldn't see their faces, just their eyes? That was a tough time because we are meant to see smiling faces.

When you smile, you produce more serotonin in your brain, and the recipient of your smile also produces more serotonin. So I don't care what your job is, you're also a pharmacist dispensing that antidepressant serotonin with every smile you give someone. And I purposely will look at people on the streets of New York or California, and I will smile at them.

It's amazing how many smile back, but also amazing how many don't. How many just keep on walking and don't acknowledge it? We've lost that human connection in a lot of ways. And a smile, I really believe connects us to ourselves, to each other, and I believe to God as well.

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JON GORDON: Yep ...

SHAWN STEVENSON: All the time, and it's just what you're doing for us, besides giving us these science-backed habits that we can start to implement, but you're giving us more insight into the value, right?

And this is something you've done for so many different people, let alone these companies, let alone these teams. We're just talking about before the show some of the teams that you've impacted, and it's just so special, man. I'm thinking about the Rams right now. The, the... I almost said St. Louis Rams because I'm from St.

Louis. But the Los Angeles Rams and what they've got going on now, and the they're a championship-minded team.

JON GORDON: They are.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And having certain practices, and you being an influential factor in what they're doing right now is pretty cool. But... And I'm thinking about them paired with another habit that you talk about, which is something that you clearly do yourself, which is lifting weights.

Why'd you put that one in the book?

JON GORDON: Because it's important. Because lifting weights, as increases your HGH. It increases your testosterone. You feel stronger. You feel more confident. All the health benefits that go with it. Boosts your mood, boosts your energy, your alertness. I just felt better when I started lifting again.

What happened was I was at an event during the pandemic, and I talked about Ed Mylett earlier. He was there, and Ed was jacked. And I remember looking at him going, "I used to look like that. I used to be fit like that." I had allowed myself to go. I let myself go. Wasn't in shape, wasn't strong, wasn't being fully the man I could be.

And so I said, "I'm gonna start lifting weights again." And I started lifting weights. Man, it has been a game changer in my life, how I feel. I feel younger and stronger now at 55 than I did when I was 40 because of lifting weights. And you are better researched at this than I am. More about this than I am, which you could probably give some more on the science of lifting weights, but I just know as we age we really need to do it.

We need to have that, that resistance. We need to have that thing that we're building, the muscle we're building in order to grow and get stronger and get better. So yeah I'm glad you noticed that I've been lifting weights 'cause I have since the last time we saw each other, but it's all natural.

I don't do anything but lift weights and try to eat healthy and eat a lot of good protein. That's what I do. No, I'm not even doing peptides, although there's nothing wrong with peptides. But I'm not doing any of that stuff. I'm just lifting, playing pickleball, walking a lot, getting a lot of sun, and just trying to be fit.

And going back to the Rams, it's pretty cool that you were a St. Louis fan and now you get to root for them in LA. You get the best of both worlds with the Rams. And you look at Shawn who also lifts weights, right? He clearly he's, he still works out. He's become a great friend.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Sean meaning the coach of the Rams.

JON GORDON: Yeah, the coach of the Rams, McVay.

SHAWN STEVENSON: The other Sean.

JON GORDON: Yeah. Sean, yes. Sean McVay of the Rams. And he is a, he's a guy that is a championship-minded coach who has developed and built a championship-minded team. And you know that you always need great leaders. It all starts with leadership.

And if you have a leader that has that mindset, that is living with great habits in their own life, you become an example for your team. And to be honest, that's how I wanna live my life. I wanna be an example for my kids and the people that I'm hopefully influencing. I can't be on stage talking about all of this and looking like I don't take care of myself.

I had Erik Spoelstra, the coach of the Miami Heat, he saw me recently and he goes, "John," he goes you look like the former Division I athlete that you were. You used to look like a writer, but now you look like the former athlete again." I said, "All right, thanks. I'm glad I got back to that."

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's amazing.

That, and also he knows. He knows transformation. Yes. He knows... I- Didn't he, is he heading up the Olympic team this year?

JON GORDON: I think he is. Yeah. I think he was picked as the coach. Yeah, he's an unbelievable guy, unbelievable coach, who again, knows about transformation. And Erik actually started lifting and getting really fit again, after years as well, so he's been into it as well.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. And like you mentioned, this is especially important as people are aging, and this is one of those things where we talk about sarcopenia, muscle loss over time, but the science is clear. Even at 80, even at 90, you can still build muscle, which is pretty powerful. And so it's really, again, honoring the body's blueprint, which is use it or lose it.

And being proactive. You don't just have to experience this dramatic muscle loss, but you've gotta put in the work. You've gotta be intentional. You've gotta have the habit.

JON GORDON: Yep, yep.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Oh, go ahead ...

JON GORDON: You look great. You're staying young and fit. What are you doing?

SHAWN STEVENSON: Come on now. First of all, thank you.

I'm somebody who I'm very much kinda regimented as far as, my strength training for years and years. But where I'm at right now, I'm really training with another purpose. I'm training with agility, with functionality, with performance in mind, with being able to, play with my, my son, being able to, compete, being able to do dynamic things at the drop of a dime.

And leaning back to a friend of mine, Dr. Kelly Starrett, he wrote a bestselling book called The S- Becoming a Supple Leopard.

JON GORDON: Okay.

SHAWN STEVENSON: He's a doctor of physical therapy. But just being able to do things in life that need to be done. And so I'm training with more of a mindset around functionality and performance.

And so with that, though, my recent focus has been more building, right? So putting on more muscle mass, which is something that I, of course, ev- most guys would wanna put on muscle, but the way that I was training was not saying that, and with the training was also the nutrition.

Got it. And so I would train fasted in the morning for years and years. That's great for fat loss. It's great for the mindset of digging deep, but I don't have to. Have a little intra-workout, some carbs during the workout. Wow, you notice how your lifts, you can lift more- ... and you're all these different things.

But also, with that, being able to, be more intentional. So the last little bit here is I'm doing more focus on quality sets. So I might, instead of doing the three to four I used to do, I might be, do, just do two or really- much slower maximize it. More focus. So we could do eccentric.

We could focus on that part of the lift. So I'm doing that coupled with Isometrics. So, holding cer- certain positions for the tendon strength and all that stuff. So I'm saying all that to say I love to experiment, I love to play around, but my habit is when I choose to do something, I do it for an extended amount of time.

I'm not ju- just bouncing from strategy to strategy, to workout. I find out what works and master that. I create a level of mastery. And it's so cool, you have all these different tools that you could go to whenever you want.

JON GORDON: Do foods make us more supple? Do foods help us be more flexible?

For instance, does eating salmon and having that fish oil in us, drinking cherry juice, breaking down the acid in our bodies does that help us not feel so crotchety and help us be more flexible and feel more alive and more bouncy?

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's such a, that's such a great question. It's more so the things that we want to avoid that cause that.

JON GORDON: Really?

SHAWN STEVENSON: Just the inflammation.

JON GORDON: Okay.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Because that's what we're really talking about when we're talking about being more rigid, being having less, kind of flexibility, more pain and movement.

JON GORDON: Yeah, it's inflammation right.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Inflammation, so it's avoiding the things, ultra-processed foods and all the, kind of junky stuff that can kind of clog up our system and our mobility.

But there are some things, of course, we want to make sure that we're providing the nutrients for those ligaments, for the tendons to repair, to regenerate, to have that elasticity.

So yes, the nutrition piece is important, and we also have to do the thing. You could guzzle fish oil, till you're, half fish.

Half fish. But if you're not actually doing the mobility work giving your body a reason to drive that into the tissues, to create the catalyst for that mobility, it's not gonna make a difference.

So when I'm playing singles pickleball against a 30-year-old former NFL player, and we're going at it, and I'm really moving side to side, and when I'm done I'm having trouble walking because I am that sore, is that good for my body, though, to be put through that strenuous exercise in the long run to actually come back and go, "Okay, repair," or is that something that's gonna break my body down?

Great question again. We need the catalyst. We need the stressor, right? That discomfort is stress. It's all in the recovery. It's all in the recovery. That's absolutely awesome if you're in joy, you're having fun, you are expressing yourself, and the game is over, and now things are kind of settling in.

Oh, man, like I feel like, I might've got hit by a truck. Over time, as long as you're recovering, you're gonna have less and less of that, but the dose makes the poison. So if you know when you're going way too far. Oh,

JON GORDON: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: If you can't move the next day that's too much.

JON GORDON: Or taking a nap for two hours the next day.

SHAWN STEVENSON: But, it's one of those things to not shy away from, because in our culture we can tend to swing to the other side, which is you don't wanna get sore, you don't wanna, oh, some especially, when you're having fun

SHAWN STEVENSON: And this is creating those conditions.

That's all right. We can lean into that. But if you're not recovering, you don't have any business doing that stuff again frequently.

JON GORDON: Makes sense. It's all in the recovery.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yes. The magic's in the recovery.

JON GORDON: Okay. That's a habit of recovery. I had an NFL guy say he was gonna make it a habit to recover and really focus on his recovery, because when he doesn't, he breaks down during the season and can't reach his goals.

So we talk about a lot of commitments versus goals. You got goals. Goals are great, but will your goals take you to where you wanna go? No.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. '

JON GORDON: Cause every team wants to win a championship. Only one team wins one. Your commitments will. What are you committed to? And when you make your commitments, they will take you to your goals.

So you wanna make it to the championship? Good, you gotta make sure you're recovering so you have the body and the health and the optimization to reach it

SHAWN STEVENSON: You are doing the exact habit that you have in the book, and this is one of the things I wanted to ask you about. You've turned the tables on me and you're asking questions.

JON GORDON: Yeah. I love it. I'm learning from the OG here. This is good ...

SHAWN STEVENSON: Your habit of being a lifelong learner.

JON GORDON: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Talk about that.

JON GORDON: Yeah. You're never done learning, and if you're done learning, you'll be done growing. So when you're learning, you're always growing. So a lifelong learner is key to your life.

We always have to be asking questions. How can we get better? How can we improve? What's the next thing we could do to gain our edge? We always have to be looking for that, that way to go to the next level, 'cause there is always a next level. You know it. You're never at the finish line. There is no finish line.

You gotta keep on moving past it, and then you'll find a new finish line and a new level. So I never wanna stop growing. I'm 55. I want when I'm in my 70s to be my best years, not my 50s. People still think of their 30s as their best years. No, I think these are my best years now, and then let's make the 70s even better.

So as long as you're learning and growing, man, the sky's the limit. I think too many people think they've arrived at the door of greatness, so what happens? It gets slammed in their face. Never think you've arrived. Humble and hungry, learning and growing. And one of my other favorite habits there is not just to be a lifelong learner, but a lifelong teacher.

'Cause as when you're teaching someone, that's when you learn the most.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yes.

JON GORDON: So the more you teach, the more you'll learn and grow. So learning is great, but teaching, you'll grow even more.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Love it. I love it. I wanna ask you about one more of these habits, and it's something that I mentioned a little bit earlier that I did today.

Be still and be silent. This is something for me, especially today, and for all of us really- Yeah ... There's so much noise. There's so much influx. There's so much influence. There's so many different things that are coming at us and literally battling for our attention. Why would you present this as one of the habits?

JON GORDON: In stillness, there is power. I call it silent energy. When you're silent, you're really tapping into this incredible energy that wants to flow and move through you. The more we're chaotic, the more we're busy, we got all this clutter in our mind, we're actually tuning into a lower frequency.

When we're silent, you're able to connect and elevate to a higher frequency.

And I believe the more silent you are in your meditation and your prayer, that's where God comes in. That's where God is able to now move through you. If you're so busy and you're moving around, and you're so chaotic, you tune into this lower frequency. So God is trying to speak to you, he's trying to move through you, but you cannot connect to him 'cause you're at a lower frequency.

But you gotta tune that dial, and the more you tune that dial, through silence actually, through silence, through prayer, and as you do that, you then elevate to that higher frequency, now you're able to receive all that power. And I see so many people living today with limited power.

Low power, no power, feeling powerless.

And we're not meant to go through life that way. We're meant to go through life with power, with strength, with confidence, with courage, with joy, to take on this world and to have dominion- ... over this world, in a good way, not a bad way. When we say dominion, in a good, loving way, where the warriors who love people, that's who wins and helps others win.

Those who are just focused on themselves, focusing on winning to exploit, that's a very low frequency, a low vibrational energy. But that higher energy, that's what sustains, that's what drives, and that's what ultimately makes the greatest impact

SHAWN STEVENSON: Man, I love talking with you. I wish I could talk with you every day

JON GORDON: Love talking to you, brother

SHAWN STEVENSON: John Gordon, The Power of Positive Habits.

Get your copy. Where can people pick up a copy?

JON GORDON: Amazon, Barnes & Noble, any bookstore. They can go to powerofpositivehabitsbook.com. That's a long one. Powerofpositivehabitsbook.com. When they go there and they get a book, we're gonna give them a free habits builder. What is that? It's a free AI tool where you put in your top three habits, and it gives you a 30-day customized plan to implement those three habits in your life.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Amazing. Amazing. I wanna ask you one more question- Sure ... about you personally. Yeah. I wanna know, your relationship with your wife was a catalyst for all of this.

JON GORDON: Oh all of it.

SHAWN STEVENSON: What is a habit that you have today in your relationship that helps to keep you guys connected?

JON GORDON: This is the number one habit that changed our marriage and elevated our marriage, and I would like to say it was being physically intimate, but that's not it.

It was praying at night before bed. Every night before bed we say a prayer together, and this prayer came about because she almost left me and because we had some struggles. And I met a guy on a plane, told him what I was going through, and he said, "My wife and I pray before bed every night, and it changed our marriage."

So I prayed, "God, I wanna pray with my wife. What's that prayer?" God literally gave me a prayer right away, and I wrote it down, and it's this: "God, we invite you into our marriage to love us, to unite us, to strengthen us so that we can grow strong together and serve you together and raise children that glorify and honor you."

And ever since we've been saying that prayer before bed, it's transformed our marriage, elevated our marriage, and I would say we have an incredible marriage. 29 years we just celebrated, and we almost didn't make it twice. But now we not only made it, but now we're really thriving because of that prayer we say every night

SHAWN STEVENSON: John, thank you so much.

I appreciate you.

JON GORDON: Yeah, thanks for asking that question.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Of course. The one and only John Gordon.

Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this. If you did, you already know what to do. Share this out with somebody that you care about. Send the good news.

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