SHAWN STEVENSON: Welcome to the Model Health Show. Did you know that fitness is one of the most transferable skills in your life? Today you'll discover how your fitness practices can make a huge positive impact on the things that you might not even relate to fitness. And if you feel like your fitness practices are not up to par right now anyways, don't worry about it.

We've got you covered on that too. Our special guest is an expert in habit change, and she made it so ridiculously simple that it would be hard not to create the positive changes that you want. And before we get to our special guest, as of this recording, it's back to school time. My son, my youngest son, just started high school yesterday.

Oh, freshman. How? How, Sway? How did we get here? I'm just trying to enjoy the process, of course, but it hits differently when it's your, when it's your youngest, when it's your baby, you know? But along with back to school time, we know that winter is coming, and that, quote, "cold and flu season" is upon us as well.

And something that is consistent in our household is being proactive about immune system support. And recent science has revealed that you do not have to get sick as often as the average person does. A meta-analysis published in Exercise and Sport Science Reviews determined that, for example, regular exercise significantly improves human immune system response to infections and reduces susceptibility to viruses.

And of course, you know that our nutrition matters so much in this equation as well. So we wanna make sure that we're eating real food. This is creating, giving the raw materials to build our immune cells and all the communication and the processing of information exchange in our bodies, and it's critical.

Focusing on real food, really doing our best to, quote, "eat clean" during this time of year is gonna be super helpful. But on the supplement side, this is a time of year that I dial certain things up as well. A 2024 study published in the Journal of Health, Population, and Nutrition determined that propolis supplementation can reduce serum levels of interleukin-6, C-reactive protein, and tumor necrosis factor alpha.

What does this mean? This means that propolis is clinically proven to reduce inflammatory biomarkers and reduce our susceptibility to illnesses. This is something we do on a regular basis, especially this time of year, utilizing the Propolis Immune Spray from Beekeepers Naturals. Go to beekeepersnaturals.com/model right now and use the code MODELHEALTH, and you're gonna get 20% off All right, take advantage, stock up.

Beekeeper's Naturals now has the number one natural honey-based cough syrup in the country. All right? Number one. Phenomenal. So they've got that as well. So if you do happen to get sick, they've got some solutions to support a healthy recovery, expedite recovery as well. But as they say, a spoonful of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

And so this is your daily dose of immunity for proactive immune system support, especially during this back to school/cold and flu upcoming season. Head over to check them out, beekeepersnaturals.com/model. That's B-E-E-K-E-E-P-E-R-S naturals.com/model. Use the code modelhealth for 20% off. And now let's get to our special guest and topic of the day.

Jennifer Cohen is a globally recognized authority on entrepreneurship and human performance. She specializes in habit formation, bold mindset shifts, and the psychology of influence that separates top performers from the rest. Her mission is simple, yet transformative: help driven individuals to show up bigger, better and bolder in health, business and life through actionable strategies that deliver real-world results.

Let's dive into this conversation with the incredible Jen Cohen. Jen, it's so good to see you. Thank you for coming to hang out with us today.

JEN COHEN: It's great to be here. Thank you for having me.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Of course. Now, you know- Yeah ... so much of our results when it comes to our health and fitness has to do with our psychology-

JEN COHEN: Mm-hmm

SHAWN STEVENSON: the way that we think. Can you share for people, and again, this is unsuspecting for many of us, why can self-doubt deeply impact the results that we're getting when it comes to our health and fitness?

JEN COHEN: Well, you started by saying that, which is very accurate, that everything starts with our head, right? The physical just kind of follows, follows up afterwards.

But I think what happens is the self-doubt is if we don't feel, if we don't have self-efficacy, that's the problem, right? Did you even know, I'm sure you know, 'cause you're very, uh, very researched, but I find it very interesting that the more dissatisfied people are with their body, their body the less they actually work out and the less they take care of themselves.

It's because the fact that, like, that's... It's a confidence loop in a way, right?

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right.

JEN COHEN: And what I always, what I, what I tell people is that the number one habit to maybe even get over self-doubt or anything, it's a soft skill, which is the art of doing what you say you're going to do, the follow-through.

Before anything else in life. Doesn't have to just be at the gym. It could be in anything in life. Because that kind of gives you rep, so to speak, in building your own feeling of confidence, self-efficacy, and, and when you do that, it will eliminate that feeling. But everything is about, like, how, like, your confidence, your self-doubt, all of these things are stemmed from the fact that you'd...

If you don't believe you can do something, you're not gonna do something. Mm. You'll think of every excuse. You'll self-reject yourself. So how do you build up the tolerance that you know and you feel confident that you can actually do something? Well, you actually have to do something, right?

It's not about, it's not a lack of information. It's a lack of doing, and it's in the doing that you develop the confidence and basically create enough self-esteem and self-efficacy to know that you can actually Kind of follow through and do it

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's so crazy. We'll create a confidence feedback loop or the lack of confidence feedback loop.

JEN COHEN: Right.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And it's just, you know, you really lifting that up where it's just like the more dissatisfied I am, the less likely I am to take action on it. And it's just because I, I think over time, of course, if you, if you've attempted to do some things that learned helplessness basically.

Like, it doesn't matter anyways.

JEN COHEN: Exactly. It's like when you eat like a cookie, you're like, "Oh, screw it, I already had that cookie, I'm gonna have the whole thing. I'm gonna have the whole sleeve. Ah, I'm gonna have the whole bag." Right? And I think that it's if you have, if you really kind of just observe, right?

When it's the, it's when you see a result or you see some change that you actually, it motivates you to keep on going, right? Mm. But it's how do you, how do you get past that hump, right? That, that's where the, it, the stop is in the start, right? People don't do that. So if you feel dissatisfied, if you don't like the way you look, then you just say, "Forget it, I'm not gonna do anything."

And the other thing that I find very fascinating, and I, I'm surprised by this given how the wellness industry has become a trillion dollar business, but I think maybe I, it's because I'm in it and I see so much of it, you're forgetting about the rest of the country, the world. Only 20% of people integrate fitness into their lives and then maintain it long-term. Only 20%.

JEN COHEN: So all the information in the world doesn't mean anything if you actually... It's not the information, it's about taking that initiative and taking that step. Mm. And so if you teach people the ability to trust themselves and to follow through and prove to themselves, the only way to do that is basically following through and doing what you say you're gonna do.

It's the most basic, fundamental, foundational skill that someone can start doing today

SHAWN STEVENSON: Have you seen people, however, I, with this being said-

JEN COHEN: Mm-hmm ...

SHAWN STEVENSON: that they might say that they're gonna do something, but they say they're gonna do too much, and it can, like, create-

JEN COHEN: Backfire.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, backfire, where it's just like I- th- some people are just, like, all or nothing.

JEN COHEN: Yes.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right? Or, have you seen that before?

JEN COHEN: Of course. I'm one of those people. I'm an extreme personality, do you not have that type of... Are you a moderation person? 'Cause I'm not. I had to train myself to be a certain way.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I'll say I'm an all-around player.

JEN COHEN: Oh, okay. I have, I'm an all or nothing kinda person, which, you know, it's hard, right?

Because, uh, you have to train yourself to be okay with not doing, like, to, to, to kinda get out of that mindset. But I think the problem is self-negotiation is where goals go to die, right? When you start to negotiate with yourself, that's when it's already game over.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Mm, right.

JEN COHEN: You know? And so if, if you start eliminating these psych- uh, to me these are all psychological, like, like, Jedi mind tricks, right?

Not allowing yourself to, to, to start behaviors that are gonna take you down a bad rabbit hole. Mm. So how do you do that? That's really the, the, the big thing. Like I said, the squat, the lunge, the, the workout is, is the easy part. It's about how do you psychologically get yourself framed and primed to create a lifestyle that is healthy, productive, optimized.

And again, I'm not even just talking about the fitness. I'm not even talking about just the fitness. I'm talking about overall.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Oh, that's so good. The negotiation piece is crazy. Like, start to pay attention to that. Yep. You know, as soon as you said it, I thought about Samuel L. Jackson in The Negotiator.

Yes. Like, you got a Samuel L. Jackson in your head who's very good at his job.

JEN COHEN: Yep.

SHAWN STEVENSON: You know what I mean? And as soon as you even get in that conversation, chances are it's going to pull you away from what you told yourself you were gonna do.

JEN COHEN: Right. Exactly. And then what does that do, right? So if you start to negotiate, "Oh, you know what?

I said I'm gonna wake up at 8:00. Well, well, maybe I'll just go to 8:30, or I'll wake up at 9:00," or you know? I mean, like, that kind of spiral just pr- it, all it's doing, it's proof to yourself that you can't trust yourself. That's all it is. It's like I can't rely on my own word. And also, like, if I can't rely on my own words, that person can't re- like other people won't rely on you either.

It's like a… that becomes a whole other ripple effect. So all of these things to me are, these are the behaviors that really create self-doubt, right? And keep us stuck. Because at the end of the day, your, your question was, like, about self-doubt, right? We're all, we're all afraid.

Like, failure's, failure is not failing. But you know what? Quitting is it's, makes you a quitter, right? Like, you ha- and these things are looped in our heads. So I think it's just a question of, like, getting ourselves to a place where we psychologically, basically tweak and prime our brains for success.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, yeah.

You brought up a big catchphrase in the, in the wellness space, which is moderation, right? Yeah. Everything in moderation. That's like a belief system, a movement in a way.

JEN COHEN: Right.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And I've never really subscribed to that personally, because again, I'm just like, just, uh, kinda even superficially, rationally, like Oreos in moderation, nah, not for me.

Alcohol in moderation- Yes ... nah, not for me. But there are some people that it works really well for, with their kind of mindset, their perspective. However, you know, with that being said, sometimes again, some people are like all or nothing. Yeah. Right? And then

JEN COHEN: It won't work for me.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right.

JEN COHEN: I'm not a moderation person.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And it's like knowing yourself.

JEN COHEN: But that's what I'm saying- That's the key ... it's all about knowing yourself, right? Yeah. That's what I said. It's like you said about, uh, the all or I'm an all or nothing person. Like, If I start... Like, so for me, it's better if I don't start then, because if I start, it's just gonna be a, it's gonna be a bad situation.

So I don't, I don't believe in, like, cheat days necessarily, right? Because I know what I'm gonna do. So it's all about knowing ourselves, right? Yeah. Some people are okay. Like, they can have that cookie, and they can just move on with their day, right? Not me. I'll have the cookie, I'll have the bag, and then I'll go buy nine more bags of cookies, 'cause it's, that is just my personality.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Cookie monster.

JEN COHEN: Right. I mean, or french fries actually, or pizza. It could be anything. But I like the salt side. But the point is, in general, it's about having the self-awareness to know who you are- Mm ... and then modify your life accordingly.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah.

JEN COHEN: Like, that's really what it is. It's like maximizing how you could be the best version of yourself in the, in the, in the confines of who you are.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. This is, like, you're giving us homework to do, and to really- Yeah, unfortunately ... really be honest with ourselves. That's the, but 

JEN COHEN: Yes ...

SHAWN STEVENSON: It starts with psychology.

JEN COHEN: It's all psychology.

SHAWN STEVENSON: So if you think about this, like, when I, when I, you asked me about, like, are you like this? Are you one of those people, moderation, whatever.

And I said I'm an all around player. You know, just to give, like, an analogy for me and my perspective, it's very simple for me to be like, "Okay, I'm gonna swing for the fences." Like, that's going to the gym, right? But then if things happen, I might, you know, it's a strike on that pitch, and it doesn't work, I'm definitely gonna go outside and do something- Right

for 10 minutes, or I'm gonna go for a walk. Like, I, I pivot. Like, I'll go for, I'll lay that bunt down, you know? Right. Versus, like, I know I wanted to do this thing. So for me it's, like, always other options, but I never completely abandon the plan. But that's not the same for other people. It's not the same for people in my family, you know?

Right. So it might be difficult for someone like myself to be compassionate, to understand, to be supportive- What we can really do to support is how can you help to, number one, help that person understand and help them to give l- y- and this is what I wanna ask you about. Get them back to keeping the promise they make to themselves, creating appropriate promises.

Right. So talk about that piece.

JEN COHEN: That's a good point. Well, you know, and let me just tell you this. Making appropriate promises, true, but it's not just in the space of fitness, wellness, nutrition. It's about making st- standing by the promises you make in everything you do in life. Because how you do one thing is how you do everything.

And so if you make... It could be, I think what people should start doing is g- make, m- start creating small promises that doesn't matter, like, that are kind of irrelevant, and then actually just following through with those, because that's a big thing, right? Like, let's not, let, let's not climb Mount Everest if we can't even jump over the puddle on the street in front, you know, like the-

in front of your house, right? Yeah. Like, let's like, let's, let's like ha- like be a little realistic, right? So if you say you're gonna call somebody back, maybe call somebody back, right? Like, don't just forget to, or text someone back. Or something silly or, you know, like, if you say you're going to email somebody, email them back.

Like, these little micro promises add up to big life challenges and to, and choices. So I feel like what people- don't, if they start to run before they, or sprint before they walk, they're gonna get themselves in, in, in, it's, they're gonna, if they, if they fail, then it's going to take them back and set them back more.

So what I really believe is that we have to start with these small, little, micro changes if we really wanna see improvement and a goal. Like, it, to me, that's exactly, b- right back to what I said, like, that's, the, don't, don't negotiate with what you, your word is. There is no internet trend that, on the planet, that will give you better results, that will change your life more than following through on what you said you're gonna do.

There's nothing. You can, there's, there's no magic potion, there's no morning routine, there's no, uh, internet trick that's gonna get you and, and yield better results than if you can just master the art of following through.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Mm-hmm. This, you already opened this door up, all right? This focus on fit- it's so interesting how so many of the people that we see who are, you know, doing these kind of, like, really interesting, successful things in business, so many of them really start to, at some point in their business ventures, start to prioritize their fitness

JEN COHEN: 100%.

I talk about this ad nauseam, by the way, Shawn. I literally do.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Say more.

JEN COHEN: Well, I mean, I'm gonna ... I did a TED Talk actually on this whole topic because what I, I say I learned more from the barbell than I did actually from the, from my business, my degree. Because what, why fitness and success in gen- are so closely linked is you learn the foundational skills when you start taking fitness seriously. 

I learn patience, I learn, uh, discipline you know, I learn failing and trying again. Progression. I learn all of these things, playing nicely with others, like following through, uh, relying on myself, confidence. Also, exercise changes your brain. Like, it actually, it, it's ... You know, there's a ... you know this better than anybody, right?

The more, the, the more you exercise or exercise creates growth factors in your brain that literally changes your brain chemistry and, like, gets your neurotransmitters to fire in a, in a much more powerful way. So when, when I was, when I was taking my fitness seriously, I saw my entire life, my trajectory just skyrocketed.

Like, my business a thousand-x'd. My personal relationships a thousand-x'd because I showed up differently, right? Because I kind of became more mentally strong as I became more physically str- as I became physically strong. I started to trust myself more. I started to change how I, you know, walked into a room.

I had more confidence. Those are these things, these these, these are the foundational skills that are so transferable in real life outside of the gym, right? So that's why I think that they're so closely connected, and that if somebody really wants to be successful, they have to take the gym, like when I say the gym, fitness, their like exercise seriously.

It will, it will 100x your life way beyond just having a six-pack or nice biceps.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. It's also, even with this, it's like reorienting our cultural beliefs about it. Yeah. Because I know we were just embedded. Because, you know, just growing up in the '80s, so many- Yes ... of the movies, for example, that I love, the people who are, like, the, quote, "dumb, dumb jocks"- Yeah, exactly

right? So the people who were about their fitness and working out in the gym, they were the ones that were not intelligent, you know? Absolutely. And so it's just like ... And then you got the, quote, "nerds" over here who they're puny. They would never ... You know, they're getting hit with the, with the dodge ball just walking by.

It's like these cultural beliefs about these things, when in reality there are some, like, superstar brains, like brainiac people who are some of the fittest, most, you know, kind of successful in their particular ventures. For me, somebody's coming to mind is Jaylen Brown with the he just got traded to the 76ers.

But, you know, an incredibly smart guy. Super about that fitness life as well. And just seeing, there's countless examples of this feeding into each other. That's not, like, an extreme example, of course, but-

JEN COHEN: Yeah, no, no,

SHAWN STEVENSON: But it's a good example ... We know that this is a real thing. Like, this isn't, you know, if you're focusing on your body, that it's just exclusively for your body.

It's actually making your brain better.

JEN COHEN: It, it, 100%. I think I became a million times smarter, or I activated my, activated parts of my brain that were just not firing properly until I, until I started to actually work out better. Like, I will tell you, if I have to do anything important, I mean, I do it anyway, but, uh, there's no way that I'm gonna show up if I did not do some type of exercise prior to that because I w- I just won't be as pre- like, I just won't be as on it.

I won't be as alert. I won't be as, uh, focused. I won't be, I, I just won't, I won't be as articulate. I just won't be as confident. Like, I just, all of these things happen when you, I think w- just overall, when you create this fitness piece as a massive habit and you integrate it into your day-to-day. The big problem is if you like, it takes a minute, right?

So if you're somebody who, like we said it earlier on this podcast, who has a lower self-esteem, who doesn't like the way they look, and they are, they are uncomfortable in their skin and they don't ha- they're dissatisfied with their body, they won't even give it enough time to even know what they don't know, right?

So how do you get that person who is stuck and kind of fearful and unable to even pass that threshold enough to even get that, that positive chain reaction, right? So that is the pro- so that's why you need to start with these soft skills. Yes. And I keep on saying this, not negotiating with yourself, the follow through, saying what you say you're gonna do.

It's not enough, I can't even stress this enough, it's not about a lack of information. It's just a lack of actually prioritizing these things. Mm. You need to change your priorities. You need to, you need to focus on, how do I get myself to a place where I'm comfortable enough to just do this thing that I don't love doing every day until I actually am okay with it, right?

Like, that is just the bottom line. Like, d- not everything is comfortable, you know? The other thing is being uncomfortable and being incapable are not the same thing. And people have to realize that. You can be uncomfortable, but still be very capable, right? And so don't confuse the two. You can still be really uncomfortable, but pretty capable of getting to the next step if you just, like, just lock in.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Just lock in. Come on. All right. I'm about to give you the tea on longevity. There's one beverage that has been found and scientifically proven to contribute to longevity far better than anything else. A phenomenal peer-reviewed study published in The Lancet just last year found that people who regularly drink tea age slower than everyone else.

Using clinical biomarkers to determine biological age and following thousands of participants for up to four and a half years, the researchers found that, number one, transitioning from not drinking tea to tea drinking was associated with a decrease in biological aging versus people who remained non-tea drinkers.

That's the tea. Number two, even stronger associations were found in consistent tea drinkers. And number three, the research suggests that drinking around three cups of tea per day had the most anti-aging benefits. Now, there are so many varieties of teas to choose from, and they're teeming with different benefits, from green tea to herbal teas like rooibos tea.

But there's one tea, if we're speaking about anti-aging, that you need to know about. It's been found to have anti-aging and anti-obesity effects, and this is according to a study published in the journal Clinical Interventions in Aging, that found that the renowned science-backed tea called pu'erh makes a notable difference in weight loss in this double-blind randomized placebo-controlled trial.

The researchers stated, quote, "Consumption of pu'erh was associated with statistically significant weight loss when compared to a placebo. Fat loss was seen for the arms, legs, and the hip and belly regions." Unquote. The participants who utilized pu'erh lost more overall body fat, and what was especially remarkable was they maintained their muscle mass during their weight loss.

This is that major component of longevity. There's only one pu'erh that I drink, and this is my favorite tea. I've been drinking pu'erh for years, and it's from the incredible team at Pique Life. Go to piquelife.com/model right now, and you're gonna receive up to 20% off, plus some limited time free bonuses, like an electric frother to mix your favorite beverages.

Their pu'erh is made from a patented cold extraction technology. It's triple toxin screened for purity, and it's wild harvested, so it's even richer in these incredible polyphenols that lead to those amazing benefits that we talked about. And right now, you get to try Pique Tea's risk-free with their 30-day money back guarantee.

You either love it or you'll receive a full refund. So you have nothing to lose and better health to gain. Head over there, check them out. It's piquelife.com/model. That's P-I-Q-U-E-L-I-F-E.com/model. Take advantage. And that is the tea. Now back to the show. You know, this idea of momentum has been around for centuries.

Mm-hmm. You know, uh, philosophers, you know, this is something that has been a part of human culture. Yeah. Today we have science affirming how real momentum is. Like, it's this interesting phenomenon. You can viscerally experience that change in an arena with the, you know, with- 100% ... a sports team, for example.

Like, and it's just like it's an unstoppable thing. You, even if this other player is just like, they can do all this stuff, that momentum is too strong. This outcome is inevitable.

JEN COHEN: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: And so this is so, so real in our lives every day, all day. Yep. And what we're doing unconsciously, and this is what we need to address, is we're creating negative momentum-

JEN COHEN: Yes

SHAWN STEVENSON: for ourselves. And so, and it starts to feed into itself just again and again every time we don't do that thing, and so it just, th- that's when it becomes such a heavy lift to try to do the thing.

JEN COHEN: Absolutely. It's, you know what's interesting that you just said that, right? Because I believe everything in life is about momentum.

You can go on the greatest date of your life, right? And then just not follow up after or go on a vacate, whatever, you do whatever you're doing, and then, like, let three weeks, a month pass, and then, like, it's gone. You know? Like, that's why when there's something str- when something is good or you like something or whatever it is, it is so important, I hate to say it again, I'm like a broken record, to keep the momentum up by following through, by doing the next step, by continuing.

Because everything in life is momentum. It could be a relationship. It could be your fitness. Like, we tend to, like, count ourselves out before we even give it a shot long enough. That's just human nature, too, right? So if we can just figure out a way or people can figure out a way to, to realize that if it's just the, that, that in itself will, will, will take you so much further than skill, right?

Just momentum, right? It's not talent. It's not a skill. It's literally just consistency, which is the same thing as momen- being consistent, doing the same thing, doing the thing over and over again. Consistency gets you to the finish line way more than talent, way more than skill, way more than anything else.

And so if we can just drill that into somebody, with anything. I mean, the, the most successful people on the planet, and I've interviewed a thousand of them, right? When you really kind of break it down and peel away all the layers, what did they do so differently than anybody else? Well, they believed in themselves just a little bit more than the person beside them, and they kept going.

And if they failed, eh, okay. They brushed it off and just got right back up. They, like, mastered the art of consistency and momentum.

SHAWN STEVENSON: How do you know how to do this though? You know, like you knew how to do this very young somehow, some way. You know, I watched one of your other TED Talks, and it's that story about- Oh, yeah.

JEN COHEN: Yes, yes, yes

SHAWN STEVENSON: Keanu Reeves. Tell the story.

JEN COHEN: Oh, okay. Well, that's like a long... How, how much time do I have? I mean, that's a long

SHAWN STEVENSON: story ... people wanna know the tea. This has to do with Keanu. Yeah,

JEN COHEN: that was like-

SHAWN STEVENSON: National Treasure ...

JEN COHEN: well, first, to answer your question, I'm gonna tell you the story, and I think anything in life requires practice if you wanna get good at it.

You can... You don't need to just practice baseball to get good at baseball. You don't need just to practice karate to get good at karate. You can practice the art of consistency. You can practice the art of anything, and it will get you from a 2 out of 10 to at least a 7 out of 10 just by practice. So to answer your question or kind of tell you the story, when I was really young, I must have been, um, like 17 years old, 16, 17.

16, 17. I was, like, obsessed with music, right? And, uh, not to date myself, but you'll know. There was... I'm from Canada, and so we had a version of MTV called MuchMusic back in Canada, which is MTV, but for Canadians. MuchMusic. MuchMusic. And they were having this, like, uh,  like country worldwi- like, not worldwide, but, like, search for their next VJ, video disc jockey, like kind of like a Carson Daly at the time, you know, for those of you who listen and know what I'm talking about.

And I was... I just thought, I, I love m- I wanted, I want that job, right? Like, they were doing like I said, like a huge search. And I'm like, "Well, how am I gonna get this opportunity?" Like, well, I, I mean, I want these people, like the people who are looking, like you need to h- the whole idea was you needed to send in a demo tape of how and why they should pick you to be the new VJ, right?

And of course, I was a kid. I had no experience. I'm like a nothing and a nobody, like just finishing high school, whatever. And I just got it in my brain, like, "Why not me?" Like it's, m- you know, that's really, I live by that motto, like, "Why not me?" Like, if it's gonna happen to someone, why can't it be me?

And, like, it's that audacity and delusion that really gets people far. That's really what it is, too, which we can get to later on, and this story will kind of be a precursor to this whole thing. And I thought, "Okay," like, "what am I gonna do?" Like, "What am I gonna put on this demo tape?" And it was right, Keanu Reeves was coming to my small town, Winnipeg, because he was like the biggest star at the time.

Like, he was massive. He just finished Speed. Do you remember? Mm-hmm. And he really wanted to do, like, a Ha- a Shakespearean play, but didn't wanna go and do it at some, like, big place in London or New York, so he came to Winnipeg to do this play. And I'm like, "This is my perfect shot. Keanu Reeves is gonna be in the...

in, in my, uh, in, in my city. I'm just gonna get him to be on my demo tape. Like, why not?" Like, it didn't even occur to me that that was crazy. It didn't occur- delusions of grandeur, I'm telling you. And I told my friends, and I told my mom and my dad, and I'm like, "Mom, I'm... I, I'm... I have to get to Kea- uh, Keanu's performing at the Manitoba Theatre Centre.

I need to go and meet him." And it was like, by the way, Winnipeg, if people don't know, it's minus 40 in the winter. It's very... It's colder than the North Pole. Did you know that Winnipeg is the coldest place on the planet literally? Yuck. With, like, a wind chill- That's crazy ... it could, it could be, like, minus 70.

I'm not joking. That's

SHAWN STEVENSON: unbelievable.

JEN COHEN: It's, like, beyond. You have to plug in your car to, for it to, to, to start. Uh, if you, if yous- if any, if any bare skin is out for too long, you get frostbite. It's horrible. So in the dead of winter, uh, I asked all my friends to come with me and wait for Keanu outside.

And by the way, at this time, there was no social media, so, like, it was all, like, entertain- like, all the news outlets, you know, were all waiting for him, too. I, like... But basically I bribed some girl that I was friends with at the time to come with me outside and, like, wait for him. Well, after four and a half minutes, it was so cold she bailed on me, and I was, like, by myself, and I'm like, "Okay, well, uh, I'll just wait by myself."

And I was, like, literally frostbitten. And finally after 45 minutes, almost at, I think, maybe even closer to an hour, Keanu comes out of this, the back door of this building, and there's, like, tons of press that, like, you know, basically just run to him, and all the girls are running. Everyone's running to him, you know?

Do you like, just remember ab- that time, t- time, you know what I mean? Very different than now and so I'm like, "Oh my God, there he is." So I'm one of the people who are running over there, and I, like, kind of weasel my way into the crowd. Like, "Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me." You know, like, everyone's just pushing and pushing.

And I finally get to him, and I, like, kinda tug on his jacket. And I'm like, "Excuse me, Keanu, excuse me." And he's, like, kind of, like, distracted and, like, kind of, like, trying to, like, talk, like, sign autographs. And then he, like, kind of looks at me and, like, kind of does this, kind of, like, like, kind of like, "Stop pulling on my jacket."

Get off me, kid. Exactly. And I'm like... He's like, "I'll be with you in a second. I'll get- I'll sign an autograph in a second." And I'm like, "Autograph? No, no, no,  what would I do with an autograph? I don't need your autograph. I have a very specific, uh, ask for you. I really wanna be a d- a VJ for MuchMusic, and I- you're gonna- you're my ticket.

Like, I need you to be on my audition tape so I can... I wanna in- like, I wanna interview you for a bit." And he was so confused. He's like, "What? Huh? Huh, huh?" And I, I repeated myself, and he looked at me again and, and then I had to repeat myself for the third time. And he w- he's such a nice person. He didn't wanna be so rude, but he's like, "Just, you know, can you just write down your phone number and I'll just call you?

I, 'cause I don't even know what you're talking about." And I didn't have a pen, and I was like, "Phone number?" I'm like, "Are you really gonna call me? Because, you know, I don't wanna, like, give you my number, and then I'm gonna be sitting by the phone, and then, like, you're not gonna call, and it's gonna..." He's like, "I'll call you."

And I was like, "Quick, quick, anyone have a pen?" And some girl had, like, an eyeliner. And so she said, "Here." And I had, like, a gum wrapper in my bag or, like, my, my pants, whatever, and I wrote my phone number on this, like, gum wrapper, and I handed it to him. And I'm like, "You said you're gonna call me. Remember, I'm, like, this 17-year-old girl who's gonna be waiting by the phone, so don't forget."

And he's like, "Don't worry, I'll call you." And I went back to school or whatever the next day, and I told my friends and my family, and they're all like, "Oh my God, I cannot believe you did that. Like, how embarrassing. Like, aren't you, like, embarrassed?" I'm like, "No." Like, I didn't even, like, feel embarrassed. I was just like, "Why wouldn't he call me?"

Like, and also, like, what's the worst that can happen, right? Like, that's a- like, that's the other thing, m- another motto I always live by. Like, what's the worst that can happen? I'm no better off today than I, or worse off, than I was then. And so day one goes by, day two goes by, no call. Day three goes by, no call.

Everyone now is like making fun of me, really. Like, like everyone's like, "Oh, did Keanu call you? Like, you know, like laughing at me, and I'm like, "No." And I started to feel really kind of stupid and dumb. And then on the fourth day, I went home and, uh, my mom was like, uh, you know, "Jennifer, did you check your answering machine?"

I'm like... 'Cause at the time I had an answering machine, and I'm like, "No, why would I?" And she's like, "Well, you should check it. I think that's... I don't know, you should check it." And I press play or whatever, and there's like this message on my answering machine, and it's like, "Hi. Um, hello? Hello?" And like, you know when you, in an answering machine, when, um, if you answer it on the last ring, someone answers the phone?

Do you remember that? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I hear on the message my mother being like, "Hello?" And then I hear another, a guy saying, "Hello?" And they're like going back and forth, this hello, hello. And then my mother is like, "Who is this?" And this, I hear, um, "This is Keanu Reeves calling for Jennifer. Is she available?"

And my mom was like, "Oh, who? Who's this?" And he says his name again, and my mom's like, thought it was like a joke, but she's like, "Don't be ridiculous," and like hu- hangs up the phone. Jeez. And then like another message, and it happened kind of the same, twice it happened. And then the third message, I was like, oh, I was like freaking out listening as I said, screaming.

And the third message was like, "Hi. Um, this is Keanu Reeves calling for Jennifer. I met you at blah blah blah. You were asking me a question. I didn't know what you were talking about, but if you get this, call me at this phone number." Of course, I call the phone number, and I mean, cut to I go pick up Keanu Reeves three days later with my mother's cutlet supreme in the middle of winter-

at his hotel, bring him back to my house where my mom made him lunch, and I did a three-hour interview with him. And I set up all the cameras, very amateur style, not like this of course, and I did an interview with him, and then I edited it myself into like a 10-minute audition, sent it in to MuchMusic. Cut to do you think I got the job?

SHAWN STEVENSON: Got the job?

JEN COHEN: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Um, I mean, I think- Well, you have to watch- ... you had some huge, like, leverage in getting it

JEN COHEN: I got the interview, I got the call, and I became runner-up for that job.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Dang. Yeah. And

JEN COHEN: I missed out by, like, you know, to one other girl. But I would never even have that opport- of course, like- Yeah ... they would never, they were like, they watched the tape, and they're like, "How in the heck did this girl get Keanu?"

And that was how I got the interview, because I showed audacity, and I showed grit, and I did the editing myself. So, like, taking that extra step and, like, living in delusion only proved to me that being bold and really chasing what you want, and not just taking what you get, is the recipe for actually living the life that you want.

And so that was a very pivotal moment, and that's what it taught me, and I've lived my life like that ever since. Yeah. And I try to instill that and teach these things to other people so they can do the same- Yeah ... and not be stuck.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Well, for those who are watching the video version, Spotify, YouTube, you could see a bit of that moment, because when I watched the TED Talk and I saw that moment.

'Cause it's one thing to tell the story, it's another thing to show little you- I know ... sitting there with Keanu Reeves. It was crazy. A- absolutely. Crazy. So the question is: Where did you get that audacity? Like, again, people are making fun of you. Yeah. You know, just even the audacity to be like, "Oh, this is..."

Like, why not? You know, where did this come from?

JEN COHEN: I really honestly, I'm gonna tell you, I think that- Being mediocre is a huge strength in life. So I grew up not really feeling so great. Like, I, I, like, and then I wasn't spectacular in any way. I wasn't the best student. I wasn't the best athlete. I wasn't the best-looking kid.

I was, like, in the middle, which is where most people are, right? Like, I'm, like, fine. So I had to, like, really work for anything I really wanted to be really good at, and that taught me, like, resourcefulness and, like, working for things and putting effort in, and that was kind of trained in me at a very young age.

Like, I wasn't a good student, so if I wanted to even, like, do okay, I had to, like, work for it. Like, I wasn't, like I said, the greatest looking. So everything I had, I learned really quickly that I didn't want... Like, what can I do to optimize what God gave me as opposed to... And that, that was, like, how I lived my life, okay?

If I wanna be much more attractive, how can I optimize, how can I, what can I do naturally to, like, be the best version of what I have, right? Mm. So, like, for example, I was born normal si- like, I'm not, I was not naturally skinny. I wasn't nat- I wasn't fat. I wasn't skinny. I was, like, normal. Again, everything normal.

So what can I do? So exercise. I'm like, "Okay, I wanna get strong." Not everyone can be skinny, but everyone can be strong. Everyone can be fit. So I was very, I always was, like, l- like, kind of like- processing the world or, like, viewing the world in that lens of taking what you have and making the best, making you the best version of what you have.

Mm. And so if I was given everything in life, and if I was, like, super hot always at 12 and 13, 14, 18, whatever it was, and I was, I was the best student, then, like, it, it d- wouldn't make, it wouldn't make me feel like I had to work that hard. Like, I would get lazy in a way, right? Like, I would, I would, like, rest on my laurels.

I never had laurels to rest on. So I had to work for them. And that work created character and grit. And, like, to me, that is, like, why I think that when people count themselves out, it's a big mistake because it is the mediocre that usually rise to the top if they just reframe how they live their lives and go after things.

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's so powerful. That's so good. You mentioned also the power of delusion in a way. I was

JEN COHEN: delusional.

SHAWN STEVENSON: So I

JEN COHEN: still am actually, but. I,

SHAWN STEVENSON: I gotta talk about that because, you know, that's, again, it's, it has a negative connotation.

JEN COHEN: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: But let's talk about. That's okay ... the power of being delusional.

JEN COHEN: I'm okay with it being a, having a negative...

I think a lot of things can have a negative connotation or a positive conga- uh, connotation, depending on how, what your perspective is, right? But, uh, I think that the, I think delu- I think audacity and delusion get you really far. And where did my delusional co I, think that me being delusional was the best asset I was given, right?

Like, thinking that at a young age, if I can just, like, maximize this thing and that thing, well, why can't it happen? Like, I... Again, it was, it was the, um, becoming very immune to the feeling of failure that made me feel that, uh, that became, that made me feel more audacious and more delusional. Like, I think the problem is people are so afraid of failing, and this sounds like a broken record 'cause you hear it so often now, right?

But the truth is it's so true. People rather not try than fail. Like, the, you know, and the reality is I don't care how many times I fail. I think that I created this whole thing, uh, you know, I don't know how much you know about me or whatever, but I call this thing this 10% target, which is making 10 attempts at whatever you want most in life.

Because the truth is, do you know that most people, 95% of people, don't even make one attempt at what they want? And almost 99% don't even make, make n- don't make two attempts. So if you're somebody who makes three attempts, four attempts, heck, even 10 attempts, your chances of success, like success and succeeding are just multiplied by just, uh, by the f- it's a force multiplier.

It will... The chances of you succeeding are so good in your favor. So I just kind of became immune to it. And how do you do that, you're gonna ask, right? 'Cause you practice the, you practice the, the failing over and over and over again. You practice by, by asking for what you want, by going after what you want.

I don't, I don't believe that there's, like, a whole m- like, a whole thing right now. Like, things have ebbs and flows, right? Like, in, like, the ether, right? Like, sometimes it's about, you know, the hustle culture. Now, the hustle culture's now, like, not good. It's about, like, it's 

about manifestation and sitting back and letting things come to you.

That's not how I ... I, I don't operate like that. I don't believe ... I believe you can manifest by having a good vision of what you want, but you have to, like, follow it with a chase and movement and action. So I tell people all the time that they need to figure out what they want and then make 10 attempts at what that is.

And, you know, the truth is either one of two things happen. Either you're gonna get that thing, or another opportunity will present itself that you never even knew existed- Mm ... by just going through that process. And with that also comes the immune to feeling failure, right? 'Cause the more you feel it, the less it bothers you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. I can see how that's so valuable in so many areas of life. I love that. That's so great. Now, I wanna circle back a little bit to fitness because, you know,  this very powerful principle of keeping the promises that you make to yourself, for you, you're about that life. You know, you're very fit.

It's apparent when people see you. How did you get there? Like, what are some of those things? And again, it's gonna be different from person to person, but I would imagine for most people, there are some micro things that you could start making certain promises- Absolutely ... to yourself and starting to, to, to kind of reinforce that positive momentum.

So what are some of those simple things for people to be mindful of?

JEN COHEN: Are you asking me more about what I do personally habit-wise? 'Cause it, there's two parts to hear.

SHAWN STEVENSON: If you- Let's go for the general pop first-

JEN COHEN: Okay ... and then you. Be as boring as possible. Mm. If you wanna seek results, be as boring as possible.

Like, people don't ... Like, people don't wanna realize this. There's no magic pill or potion. Doing the same things day in, day out gets the best results. Boring, boring, boring, boring, boring. I think creating structure and routine daily, super important. So it's like the rinse-and-repeat formula, right? I'm gonna do this Monday at between this time and this time, Tuesday one day.

Like, I think veering away from what your habits are that keep you in check is very dangerous. And I think that discipline hurts way, way less than dissatisfaction. And I'd rather be disciplined and be satisfied than be satisfied for a moment but have zero... Like, it's fleeting

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's so good.

So good. Now, for you personally, so what does your, what does your fitness look like?

JEN COHEN: So my, I'm, I... So there's a couple things. I'm not a fancy person, and I think fancy doesn't work. Mm. So I'm not gonna I don't... It's, I'm not gonna say I do ni- I don't do 97 peptides and my morning routine's 47 hours. I think that's super unrealistic and hard to maintain long term, especially if you've got kids and you got a family.

So what I, I kinda keep it simple stupid, and I've been doing the same things for 100 years. Um, I think, number one, I wake up every morning, and this is also because I'm d- I'm f- I'm doing the same things. It keeps me in check. I, it, sometimes it's not even about, like, I don't even know anymore what's doing what, but these things combined keep me in check.

So I wake up in the morning. I drink a massive 32-ounce thing of water, room temperature, with lemon. I squeeze, like, a lemon in, out, in there. I travel with lemons if I have to because it's just part of my, my routine, right? Easy. I take the same supplements. Nothing fancy. I take aminos, as you know, the Kion Aminos, which I think are great for maintaining, especially now that I'm, like, old, maintaining my lean muscle mass, building my muscle mass, keeping my energy, uh, stabilized, body composition.

It's great for body composition. I take vitamin D. Very basic. I take magnesium at night. I take TruNiagen NAD. Like, I take that. What else do I take with supplements? Very basic. Um, omega-3s, I take those as well. That's it. I don't ta- I'm not, like, f- I'm not taking 97 things. Um, I go exercise. After I exercise, I start my day.

So I need to sweat. Wait,

SHAWN STEVENSON: Wait, wait. What do you exercise?

JEN COHEN: Okay, I was gonna say. Like, what does that look like? I need to do it, and you can, we can fight about this, but I'm gonna tell you this. I'm a big, when I say big, I believe in cardio, but I do cardio for my brain, not my body. So to me, my first priority is getting my brain right, right?

Getting myself psychologically, like, right, kind of, like, in check, and weights will only get me there if I sweat beforehand. So, like, I, I know this is, all, it, a lot of this is trial and error. Mm-hmm. So for me, I have to do some cardio to kind of, like, activate something in my brain. So that would be either I do, like, an incline walk with a weighted vest, and then I jog, or I do the assault bike for sprints, or I will do some type of, like, movement, my bo- like, where I'm moving my body that way.

Then I'll do strength training. I do both, like, usually five, six times a week. I work, and I try to walk. This is one of the big things I do, to be honest. I do, if anything is two miles or under, I walk there. It's a non-negotiable for me. I don't care if it's a meeting, I don't care if it's to pick up groceries, I don't care if it's going to the bank.

I will not get into a car un- if it's two miles or under. It's just, I don't ca- it's, it's non-negotiable. That's just one of these things. That's how I get my steps in. That's how I get fresh air. So I will walk... If I'm going to the gym, I'm gonna walk to the gym. If I'm going to a lunch meeting, I will show up, but I don't...

I will wear my little sneakers. If it has to be a little bit more formal, I'll take shoes with me in a bag, but who am I kidding? I don't really care that much. I'll show up a little sweaty. I rather, I, I will not sacrifice these non-negotiables for aesthetics in terms of, like, wearing a nice cl- like a nice, you know, shirt or, like, having perfect hair.

Like, to me, those aren't as important. So my priorities are, again, like, creating these, like, these, uh, non-negotiables and disciplines that I know will get me the best results long-term. And so, and I don't ever, ever, or I try not to, uh, veer from them. Hmm. So that walking one I think is a really important one if you...

And also I, sometimes I walk with a weighted vest. Sometimes, you know what I prefer sometimes? Is walking with these little weights that you see all the time. I find sometimes like, it's more, you get more bang for your buck sometimes if you walk with these little weights so you work your arms as well.

Um, but that's just a side thing. Uh, so that's a, that's another habit. And at night I'll take my magnesium and/or I'll do a sauna, but not always. So it's very basic. Exercise to me is the core, the core habit, the most fundamentally and most important habit to do every single day. I don't, I'm not saying you gotta, like, you know, kill yourself with intensity, but that to me rewires and, and, and is the most important thing for your brain, for your body, for your confidence, for your success.

I will never, ever not do something,  unless I'm traveling and I don't have a chance, but then I'll just go back to it the next day.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Wow. Th- this is, there's so many things people can, like, sample from there. That two mile rule is incredible. Like, I've never heard that before.

JEN COHEN: Really? Yeah. It's a good one.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, that's…

JEN COHEN: You should try it ...

SHAWN STEVENSON: That's a great one. Maybe you wanna do a mile.

JEN COHEN: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Maybe I'll do a mile.

JEN COHEN: Don't, don't negotiate with yourself.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Oh, shit.

JEN COHEN: That's my point. So I, I don't-

SHAWN STEVENSON: But I'm also being realistic for myself where I would start with.

JEN COHEN: Oh, that's true. You know? And that, that's what, yeah. So m- for me, for anybody, it's all about where, where they are right now, right?

Yeah. Start with where you are. Some people it's a half a mile, right? A quarter of a mile. Just make, make a commitment to yourself and then stick to it. But, you know, I think that walking to me is the best exercise on the planet. I know that there's, like, a lot of, like, controversy around some of that sometimes.

I think it's the best thing to do. It just gets everything a- moving. Like, I feel like it gets your circulation, it's good for your brain. It's like I get my best ideas and I've had my best, uh, thoughts, business strategies, f- everything has happened when I was, like, in motion.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Mm.

JEN COHEN: In motion. I used to do my podcast, you know, on t- on treadmills.

Oh. Did you know that?

SHAWN STEVENSON: I did not know that.

JEN COHEN: Yeah. You missed out. You missed that, though. I had two-

SHAWN STEVENSON: So you had another, your guest on a treadmill too?

JEN COHEN: Yeah, we both were on... So we had two, uh, treadmills facing each other, and we would work out, and it was, it was like a hot box in there. It was, because there's no air conditioning because you couldn't hear with the treadmill and the air conditioning.

So people were, I'm not joking, they were dying on these treadmills. Like, people were almost at the place of passing out because of the air conditioning. Like, it, like, in the summer, oh my God, people were, like, and then if I had guys on, which I have on m- all, like, 50, 60% of the time, right, whatever, half the time, they would get competitive.

So if I was at, like, a 2.6, let's say, on the treadmill, they would be like, "Hmm, 2.7," like, without- Mm-hmm ... just not even knowing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, "Oh, 2.7. She's at 2.6. I'll

SHAWN STEVENSON: be at 2.8."

JEN COHEN: And then I would see that 2.8, I'm like, "Mm-hmm," and I'd go to three, and it would be, like, a whole thing happening kind of  like, subconsciously.

You know what I mean? It was hilarious. It was... I honestly, I'm thinking of bringing it back because it was, it was actually really fun because you also see people when they are, like, 'cause the casual walk turned out to be more it became, like, a much more rigorous thing sometimes. And you see how people actually, um, respond- Yeah

in that, in those moments, right? Because you have to, like, pay attention, to not falling, to talking. I think it really, it was great. I loved it, actually.

SHAWN STEVENSON: I'm saying it's, like, it's a unique thing-

JEN COHEN: It, I know ... right now. So yeah. I was being, I know. It's before my t- it was, like, this was, like, six years ago.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Mm.

JEN COHEN: Yeah. Incredible. You can be my first guest if I bring it.

SHAWN STEVENSON: You know what? I'll do it.

JEN COHEN: Yeah? I'll do it. Okay, good. You can be my first guest, and you'll, like, be, like, we'll start at 2.5. We'll end up at, like, 7.8. Sprinting.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Um, I wanna ask you about this because, you know, as you just mentioned, your access in interviewing some of the most successful people, um, you've obviously learned a lot, gained a lot, and shared a lot.

And so I wanna know some of these secrets. Um, in, in particular when it comes to- Getting results, right? Your show is Habits and Hustle.

JEN COHEN: Mm-hmm.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Right? So I think that a lot of people unconsciously believe that successful people tend to have, like, these different habits that nobody else has. But what are those consistencies?

Can you reveal that for us? Like, across the board, what are the most consistent habits you see with some of the most successful people?

JEN COHEN: You know what? Like, I ... Consistency, uh, the, so the most consistent habit I've seen with the most successful people is the habit of consistency. That's the habit. What I've noticed is nobody, I hate to say this, is any more special than anybody else.

And the people that you think are the most successful that, oh, they must have this, like, superpower. No. They just train themselves to lock in and just do the same mundane crap day in and day out and stay on track. Even if it failed one day, even if they were unhappy, they did it scared, they did it lonely, they did it sad, they did it mad, they did it frustrated.

They just did it. And so what I, like, what I alway- and, like, what I kinda glean from that is exactly that. It's not rocket science. None of this is rocket science. There's no secret. The secret is there's no secret.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Hmm.

JEN COHEN: That is the secret. You can watch a million reels on Instagram, and you could, you know, you could watch everything, every YouTube video on how to, but the reality is, at the end of the day, the only thing that you need to do is do.

Do whatever that thing is, and just keep on doing it, and don't stop. And if you stop, get right back up and start again. Don't compro- like, do not compromise what that goal is. If it's not working, don't change the goal. Change the strategy, but keep doing that. Still keep going for what that is.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Come on, come on.

This is fire. Thank you so much. This has been incredibly enlightening. And, I mean, I've already got some ideas I wanna put into place for myself. I'm, real talk, the one-mile rule, like, I'm, I love that. Because I like to w- I like to have a purpose. Yeah,

JEN COHEN: me

SHAWN STEVENSON: Too. You know what I mean? Yes. Like, if I'm just going to the store, but for me, my, my negotiator is like, "Well, you know, my wife won't come with me," or whatever, you know?

Like, sometimes she might come. But I don't need somebody else just to do it, you know? No, but- So it's just like I can make that a rule for myself. If it's within a mile, I'm just gonna walk there.

JEN COHEN: Absolutely, and put yourself in, uh, positions to win. Like, to me, that's a really important thing, right? Like, figure out ways that you can, like, t- figure out ways to win.

Like, I purposefully live in a place where I have to walk. That's why I don't live in a ... I l- I like to live in the middle so I, I, there's a Ralph's or there's, like, a grocery

SHAWN STEVENSON: store. Yeah, I was just about to say. Yeah. I've walked to the Ral- Oh, yes. After I've left your house both times, I walked to the Ralph's-

JEN COHEN: Exactly

SHAWN STEVENSON: And, and get a bottle of, like, good water.

JEN COHEN: Right, exactly. So, like, I, I, that's a- another non-negotia- like, for me, it's like, you know, make, give yourself every opportunity and chance to succeed. Right? Don't, don't be yourself's worst enemy. Like, right? Don't self-reject yourself, right? Always put yourself in a position to win.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, yeah. This is amazing. Can you let everybody know where to follow you? Uh, tell them about your show, all that good stuff.

JEN COHEN: Oh, yes. Thank you. So my podcast is called Habits and Hustle. If you have not, um, seen it or heard of it, please, uh, you know, take a listen. Therealjencoehn is my Instagram and my TikTok, and I guess all the things.

What else? Uh, jennifercoehn.com is my websi- website. People know how to f- I mean, in today's time, you guys c- you guys will figure it out, I'm sure. And if not, Shawn will tell you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah. Oh,

JEN COHEN: and my last book was called Bigger, Better, Bolder.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yes, yes. I mean, y- you don't have to be Nancy Drew to, to- ... find people today, although you were Nancy Drew- Yes, I was

I mean, as soon as you came in here. Who is that? Was he here? I saw the shoes, and I put this together, and you were right.

JEN COHEN: Exactly. You know? I'm Inspector Clouseau. Uh, Nancy Drew or whoever, Inspector Clouseau- ... whatever. Yes.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Well, I appreciate you so much. And, um, you know, again, this is incredibly inspiring for me as well, and we'll put all of the links and access to you- Thank you

in the show notes, and you're the best. You're amazing. Thank you so

JEN COHEN: much. Thank you, Shawn. Thank you for having me. This was so fun.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Yeah, yeah. We'll do this again-

JEN COHEN: Good ...

SHAWN STEVENSON: a time or 20.

JEN COHEN: I love his energy. I told him he should, if Calm, if you're listening, put him on your app as a meditation person.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Hey, you never know.

JEN COHEN: Yeah.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Well, everybody out there in dreamland, I appreciate you for hanging out. The one and only Jen Cohen, everybody.

JEN COHEN: Thank you.

SHAWN STEVENSON: Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this. If you did, you already know what to do. Share it out with somebody that you care about.

And please know that I am not playing around. We've got some incredible master classes and world-leading experts coming your way very, very soon, so make sure to stay tuned. Take care, have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon.